EPTAnyone that still wants to see him suffer more or prevent him from doing something as banal as streaming, is not being fair. I'm still on the fence about whether he should be allowed to participate in tournaments again. On one hand, I believe anyone that cheats in a professional setting should be banned for life, but on the other hand this isn't at all the case in other professional sports where only a temporary ban ranging from 6 months to 2 years seems to be commonplace.
Savior apologizes on his Knees - Page 3
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
Anyone that still wants to see him suffer more or prevent him from doing something as banal as streaming, is not being fair. I'm still on the fence about whether he should be allowed to participate in tournaments again. On one hand, I believe anyone that cheats in a professional setting should be banned for life, but on the other hand this isn't at all the case in other professional sports where only a temporary ban ranging from 6 months to 2 years seems to be commonplace. | ||
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[AS]Rattus
427 Posts
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OrangeGarage
Korea (South)319 Posts
On December 15 2017 02:26 Dazed. wrote: @RCAR Or maybe theres a more psychological complexity to a person than your black and white interpretations of his actions? Maybe in being rejected by all of society constantly, boasting about being an uber driver was an attempt at saving face? Whether saviors an asshole or not really is none of your business; hes a complete stranger to you. The only thing being requested of anyone here is not to take an active stance in ensuring he cant make money/or reintegrate back into a community, requires nothing of you. Not understanding, not clicking a mouse. But random guy ten years ago did something that endangered your hobby, so apparently thats a blood feud for the rest of your life.  No one saying shit like "He hasnt changed at all!" or "hes scum!" has ever lived a life worthy of note. You've never had someone close to you who was a scum bag, who had anger problems or alcoholism, but also redeeming qualities? You've never been in a spot in your life where you acted poorly and regretted it years later? No one who can condemn someone like this so casually and easily from both a physical and emotional distance could of ever been through any significant in life. Black and white thinking like this is for children. Grow up and spend less time condemning people you dont know. Endangered hobbies-> Killed the scene that is still on its last legs after 7 years. Sent multiple professional gamers as well as countless trainees down the trash. FTFY Redeeming qualities? Savior? Please. Following are Iris's words from his stream when Savior first started streaming. 1. Savior was OK the first 6 months. Then his true colors showed so I hated him 2. Savior and I are enemies. 3. The suspected game with hyvva- if he matchfixed that then he's a c unt, if he didn't he's seriously a joke. It was a game you could not lose. 4. After getting DarElf to matchfix for him, the initial deal was 5000 dollars. Then, Savior took 3000 dollars for himself. He's a giant dick. 5. I loved it when firebathero beat savior and celebrated. I loved firebathero after that. 6. Regardless of matchfixing, he literally has the worst personality. Nobody in CJ liked him. 7. I've never personally fought Savior, though he provoked me once. 8. When the team kept getting second place, we went into an emergency meeting. Instead of saying he would work harder, Savior spewed stuff like "we should go on more vacations trips". I just told the coach I had to practice for the game tomorrow and went back to the practice room to prepare. I think the coach might have scolded Savior for being so lax compared to me. Savior came up and suddenly took off my headset and started cussing at me, yelling if I was crazy. He really wanted a fight. 9. If I couldn't hold back and actually beat that sucker, he probably would have taken it to the police. You can see how he did to those commenters. 10. When the coach saw Savior looking for a fight with me, he got so angry that he told Savior to pack up and leave. 11. (Oversky texts Iris angrily while Savior telling stories about the matchfixing scandal, saying that fuck still hasn't wisened up.) 12. Like Hwasin said, even outside of matchfixing he's just a terrible person. 13. If his fanboys knew how he really was they probably couldn't ever be his fans. 14. Savior's knee is really fucked up. That's not a lie to get sympathy. I lived with him- its really bad. 15. When he tried to cover up that he had matchfixed, he got a diary and wrote bullshit on it like "Ah why is my performance so bad these days", and placed it open on his bed in a really conspicuous manner for his teammates to see. 16. Conclusion? Trash. I hated him before he matchfixed. Nobody liked Savior, he was basically an outcast because he was just a terrible guy. 17. He was arrogant about his talent, so didn't practice much and went out with girls while his teammates practiced. 18. You think he was close to some members because he took pictures with them looking friendly? Nope. Nobody was close to Savior. 19. When Savior switched races to Terran against GoRush, GoRush got so mad he was frothing. That's how much we hated him. blog.naver.com 20. If someone lower than savior says hi to him, savior just ignores him. 21. He knew what would happen when he matchfixed. He knew, and still did it, and also became a broker, dragging others into it. 22. Look at him going for the chicken leg- literally him everywhere. Always puts himself first like the selfish guy he is //Lol 23. When he sees savior flinching away from Britney's handshake : Thats just who he is. Maybe in being rejected by all of society constantly, boasting about being an uber driver was an attempt at saving face? Whether saviors an asshole or not really is none of your business; hes a complete stranger to you. Yeah, I can believe it if he's an arrogant arse that Iris is saying he is. Thanks for backing up my point. Apologizing for matchfixing but trying to save face at the same time- really convincing. Of course its my business right now - there is a literal poll going on if you weren't aware. I'm sure you and Savior are best buddies who know everything about each other- that's why you can talk about his redeeming qualities right? Perhaps your'e a CJ team member like Iris was, and Iris iand Oversky are lying? If you have some personal stories to tell, I would love to translate them into Korean and get some exposure for you. I was Savior's fan cafe and fan club member for a couple of years. People loved me because I was so little. I could definitely search up some old contacts and send them out. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
Personally speaking, sAviOr awkwardly trying to make friends with more popular streamers in order to gain leverage isn't my cup of tea. People fighting on other streams over the topic of sAviOr, and interfering with the general vibe of other Brood War streams isn't something I'm looking forward to. As long as the quality of other Brood War content isn't negatively affected, I don't really mind what sAviOr does, but I'm of the opinion that he has way too much baggage for that to happen. I'm not sure whether it is the idea of sAviOr returning that gives people the butterflies, or the actual content that sAviOr brought as a streamer that they miss, but either way, it isn't a big issue for me so long as the rest of the Brood War content goes on as planned. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
He was banned, fined, disgraced, and dropped like a bad habit (deservedly) by the community, but after awhile isn't enough enough? After you serve a prison sentence are we as a society implying that you should be continuously punished forever? Let the man back, you people acting like he went out and molested children or robbed some old lady at gun point are ridiculous and sound like little more then a witch hunting angry mob, especially you RCar, wow, the poster child for angry mob mentality gone wrong. Let bygones by bygones....after a set amount of time (a fucking decade?) and appropriate punishment (which he was served on a cold dish) what more do you want? | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 15 2017 02:28 RCCar wrote: Desperate? Desperate? DESPERATE? Oh please tell that to the countless professional gamers that were training 10+ hours a day just to get on stage. Please tell them that the reason for their dream and life's career being crushed was because the one of the most successful players of all time was "desperate" Please tell that to DarkElf, who didn't know what matchfixing was, manipulated into losing his games through peer pressure by Savior (and didn't get paid btw) what the fuck are you doing, jerking off to that "I'm a good guy" feel train? Yea. This attitude is...well I can't relate. It's incredibly unmerited if you think Savior's apology is sincere. Even if you don't though, it's still overkill. Dude made some bad decisions, fucked up hard and screwed many people over in the process. These are all very bad things, and that's an understatement. That said, the guy was barely out of his teens and pressured by people significantly more powerful than him. That has to factor into the decision. What he did was terrible, but it's also not some unforgivable action like raping someone or a cold blooded murder. Those are things for which I would not even forgive a 15 year old. Matchfixing is not one of those things. Young men have done stupid, borderline evil shit before, whether that's stealing, assaulting someone, harassment, etc. Many of them have gone on to recognize what they did was terrible, reform themselves, and move on to being good productive citizens. Good husbands, good fathers. Many don't, but people absolutely can change. We are always aware of their past, but recognize that who someone was ten, twenty, or fifty years ago is not a reflection of who they are today. One thing I will say is that Savior should never be allowed to play a tournament again. In that sense, it's an unforgivable crime. I'd put that in the same category as doping, do it once and it should be a perma ban from competitive play. What we are doing with Savior is trying to say not only can he not play tournaments, but he can't play a game he enjoys and share it with people. Do we have a problem is a great, banned athlete makes youtube videos about how to be better at their sport? Nope. Lance was close to destroying cycling, and he is rightfully banned from all competitive sports. Nobody has a problem if he still wants to ride his bike, interact with fans, do podcasts discussing the Tour de France or other races, or upload pictures of himself riding to instagram or strava. The same applies to any other athletes. Savior should not be allowed back around competitive BW in any way. He should absolutely be allowed to play BW and share BW content. Those are two VERY different things. | ||
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
On December 15 2017 03:01 Beelzebub1 wrote: People cheat in real sports for much larger sums of money and only get banned for 6 months to a year, I see no logic in the continuous punishment of someone for something that was done over a decade ago. This is a different issue all together. It's a travesty that people get those sorts of bans. Use of PEDs should be a lifetime ban. That said, there is a huge difference between allowing Savior to associate with competitive BW, and allowing him to play BW and produce BW content. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
On December 15 2017 03:02 L_Master wrote: This is a different issue all together. It's a travesty that people get those sorts of bans. Use of PEDs should be a lifetime ban. That said, there is a huge difference between allowing Savior to associate with competitive BW, and allowing him to play BW and produce BW content. I agree, no tournaments, but should be able to stream freely. | ||
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OrangeGarage
Korea (South)319 Posts
On December 15 2017 03:02 L_Master wrote: Yea. This attitude is...well I can't relate. It's incredibly unmerited if you think Savior's apology is sincere. Even if you don't though, it's still overkill. Dude made some bad decisions, fucked up hard and screwed many people over in the process. These are all very bad things, and that's an understatement. That said, the guy was barely out of his teens and pressured by people significantly more powerful than him. That has to factor into the decision. What he did was terrible, but it's also not some unforgivable action like raping someone or a cold blooded murder. Those are things for which I would not even forgive a 15 year old. Matchfixing is not one of those things. Young men have done stupid, borderline evil shit before, whether that's stealing, assaulting someone, harassment, etc. Many of them have gone on to recognize what they did was terrible, reform themselves, and move on to being good productive citizens. Good husbands, good fathers. Many don't, but people absolutely can change. We are always aware of their past, but recognize that who someone was ten, twenty, or fifty years ago is not a reflection of who they are today. One thing I will say is that Savior should never be allowed to play a tournament again. In that sense, it's an unforgivable crime. I'd put that in the same category as doping, do it once and it should be a perma ban from competitive play. What we are doing with Savior is trying to say not only can he not play tournaments, but he can't play a game he enjoys and share it with people. Do we have a problem is a great, banned athlete makes youtube videos about how to be better at their sport? Nope. Lance was close to destroying cycling, and he is rightfully banned from all competitive sports. Nobody has a problem if he still wants to ride his bike, interact with fans, do podcasts discussing the Tour de France or other races, or upload pictures of himself riding to instagram or strava. The same applies to any other athletes. Savior should not be allowed back around competitive BW in any way. He should absolutely be allowed to play BW and share BW content. Those are two VERY different things. Literally kills off the scene, then tries to make money off of it, and people are supposed to love it... make sense....? Savior has never displayed sincerity. His multiple apologies were always half hearted at best, and he prevented anyone from ever bringing his matchfixing scandal up, to the point where his list of banned words grew over 114 words because he would get triggered at everything remotely related to matchfixing. Pitbull's tchu tchu cha was even banned because it sounded too much like the korean pronunciation of matchfix. If you are truly apologetic for matchfixing, you would accept you did a wrong, understand, and let people make their decisions, like people on TL tell others to do. Unfortunately, Savior does not want to accept he did a wrong and expects everyone to love him the instant he makes an apology. How is anyone (outside of TL i guess) supposed to believe he is sincere? Especially when his most recent stream, about a year and a half ago, still showed him unapologetic to his fans and bragging about his uber work? Hwasin, when he streamed, pretended to be sincere and a lot of people were ready to accept his apology. He did not have a ban list of over 100 words so that he could save face. (he kicked it all away with a few scandals that showed he was not sincere after all, but that's not relevant here.) Thankfully, Savior is already banned from streaming KeSPA sanctioned games on all the major platforms. Since people from Afreeca say they already reached out to him about the games he couldn't play, I personally don't really care what he does on stream. Maybe he can go back into the totally young and naiive Savior who made mistakes and tell his viewers to fuck off, that his uber driving makes more money. Oh wait- that was in 2016. 6 years didn't make a difference- how many more chances do people have to give him before he finally realizes what he's done? How do you expect us to believe that he is being sincere with that "on your knees" type deal? Everyone does it when they try to sound sorry. Savior just finally realized that after 7 years of trial and error. | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
He was 23. You could be almost done with a masters degree at that age. When I was 23 I never felt like my age was an excuse for anything stupid or malicious. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1410 Posts
But after what he has done, making jokes out of his situation and downplaying his role in previous starcraft streams, he shouldn't be touching BW if he has any sort of conscience. He can stream other games but not BW If you see Korean streamers opinion, it varies but most of them are negative, from his smug attitude from his afreeca streaming days few years ago, to his progaming days, his statement and downplaying of his crimes that doesn't fit with the official court documents when he was streaming before his ban. Let him stream? Fine. Touch BW that he destroyed and showed no remorse until he ran out of money so he could go for streaming for the 3rd time? No. It's not like he is doing this out of pure need. He had a regular job, but he wants to cash on in his fame for the 3rd time with streaming To people that think savior is good and you just "want to see skillful gameplay" he's worse than britney, the butt joke of streaming scene | ||
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TigerKarlGeld
27 Posts
On December 15 2017 03:27 ArvickHero wrote: what is this young guy bullshit excuse He was 23. You could be almost done with a masters degree at that age. When I was 23 I never felt like my age was an excuse for anything stupid or malicious. On average your prefrontal cortext will be developed at 25 years of age. To coin it in basic terms, let's call this the center of your brains rationality. Referring to yourself as an argument is an anecdotal fallacy. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15913 Posts
Not sure I can take him seriously. | ||
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TigerKarlGeld
27 Posts
On December 15 2017 03:31 Charoisaur wrote: What's he doing nowadays? Is he just desperate for money and tries to fool the community so he can earn money with streaming? Not sure I can take him seriously. So don't fund his life style. This ain't really rocket science. | ||
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OrangeGarage
Korea (South)319 Posts
On December 15 2017 03:31 TigerKarlGeld wrote: On average your prefrontal cortext will be developed at 25 years of age. To coin it in basic terms, let's call this the center of your brains rationality. Referring to yourself as an argument is an anecdotal fallacy. 20 is the legal age in Korea. It is also the age where you have are expected to know and take on the full responsibility for your actions. I don't know if any country babies people until they're 25, but perhaps Savior could immigrate there. Its not like this was something really complicated... Hmmm... should I do something illegal...? Hmmm... So hard..... Hmmm... should I also invite my coworkers to this matchfixing gang and jeopardize the scene any further..? Oh noes my lack of fully developed prefrontal corex! | ||
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TigerKarlGeld
27 Posts
On December 15 2017 03:29 jinjin5000 wrote: I think it's fine to let him stream but not bw. This is his 4th,5th chance, not his 2nd if you guys didn't know But after what he has done, making jokes out of his situation and downplaying his role in previous starcraft streams, he shouldn't be touching BW if he has any sort of conscience. He can stream other games but not BW If you see Korean streamers opinion, it varies but most of them are negative, from his smug attitude from his afreeca streaming days few years ago, to his progaming days, his statement and downplaying of his crimes that doesn't fit with the official court documents when he was streaming before his ban. Let him stream? Fine. Touch BW that he destroyed and showed no remorse until he ran out of money so he could go for streaming for the 3rd time? No. It's not like he is doing this out of pure need. He had a regular job, but he wants to cash on in his fame for the 3rd time with streaming To people that think savior is good and you just "want to see skillful gameplay" he's worse than britney, the butt joke of streaming scene Unless you make an argument against market economies in general, you really fall flat of arguing why this person should not be allowed to do whatever he wants to finance his lifestyle. | ||
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TigerKarlGeld
27 Posts
On December 15 2017 03:33 RCCar wrote: 20 is the legal age in Korea. It is also the age where you have are expected to know and take on the full responsibility for your actions. I don't know if any country babies people until they're 25, but perhaps Savior could immigrate there. I'm sorry that you feel the need to embarrass yourself with this kind of hyperventilating emotional statement. Unless you have anything to say about the fact that people's brains on average develope until the age of 25, why say anything at all? Is it to highlight your lack of neuro-scientific knowledge and understanding? | ||
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OrangeGarage
Korea (South)319 Posts
On December 15 2017 03:35 TigerKarlGeld wrote: I'm sorry that you feel the need to embarrass yourself with this kind of hyperventilating emotional statement. Unless you have anything to say about the fact that people's brains on average develope until the age of 25, why say anything at all? sure just read the rest of my comment Edit: I think you may be an aggro with this whole thing The more I read your comments, the more I think so. I think I ignore you from now on. | ||
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jinjin5000
United States1410 Posts
On December 15 2017 03:31 Charoisaur wrote: What's he doing nowadays? Is he just desperate for money and tries to fool the community so he can earn money with streaming? Not sure I can take him seriously. Had a regular job, decided he made more streaming, so now he's back for the 3rd time. Looks like people never saw saviors streams during his 1st and 2nd streaming attempts, or people wouldn't be defending him this hard. | ||
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TigerKarlGeld
27 Posts
On December 15 2017 03:36 RCCar wrote: sure just read the rest of my comment Edit: I think you may be an aggro with this whole thing The more I read your comments, the more I think so. I think I ignore you from now on. I could not care less about an hyperventilating ignoramous, who doesn't bother to understand brain developement, ignoring me. User was warned for this post | ||
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