On December 06 2017 19:09 FoR_BlueS wrote: (Moved post to this thread) To be honest, I am very impressed by Larva's social wisdom, not only is he a good BW player, he surely knows how to entertain his audience, and (in a neutral sense) how to manipulate information and public opinion to favour him. This post is not meant to undermine Larva's position, but is meant to analyse the entire incident and to address the elephant in the room that everyone seems to have forgotten: if a public humiliation (even if it was not meant to be a humiliation) deserves an apology, then it should deserve a public apology instead of a private one, otherwise it would strike the victim as insincere.
I tried asking a few Chinese players to dig for some info regarding what exactly happened. According to what they described, Legend said he "sat there, not knowing what to do for half an hour" after the match (let's assume the translations are correct, as of now I cannot confirm this), this appears to indicate that Larva did not apologise right after the match, probably not realising how his actions affected Legend, and that Legend likely participated in the tournament with a very serious mindset, otherwise he would just leave with a smile. Larva likely realised the severity of the issue later and decided to apologise to Legend, only to be met with refusal. From a moral perspective, a public humiliation deserves a public apology, I can hardly imagine how a private apology after a public humiliation could work out for Legend (assuming that he is TRULY offended, it appears that this is the case in Chinese culture), therefore Legend's reason for refusing Larva's private apology does not seem to be entirely unjustified. Legend probably thought that Larva's offer wasn't sincere enough, thus rejected it.
I think if it were a Westerner all of this wouldn't have happened due to different cultural customs and norms, but unfortunately this wasn't the case. Larva, likely accidentally or coincidentally, picked the wrong candidate for his shows. What's more unfortunate is that the Western audience has been easily manipulated by Larva's exploitation of the cultural gap between Western and Eastern cultures. Larva probably knew that in Western culture his behaviours would be less of a deal, especially in a show match, therefore Westerners would likely fail to realise how offensive his actions were in the eyes of Legend. Coupled with Legend's refusal of Larva's private apology, Larva has successfully painted himself as the honourable victim of a scandal, and portrayed Legend as a narrow-minded, egoistic loser who is too butthurt to act like a man. I make this deduction based on my experience as a fan of Eastern culture, so no, don't ask me which animes are good to watch otherwise you will spend the rest of your life infront of your computer...But you can start with Death Note.
Once again, I have to say I am really amazed by Larva's emotional intelligence and showmanship, I have certainly learned a lot from observing this incident. However until I can dig up more information from Legend's side, conclusions should not be given regarding this incident, but since I do not know Legend nor do I know anyone who does know him personally I guess we will never have an answer.
May the incident be settled by mature and responsible responses from both sides...
No offense but don't you think that you and others are taking this too seriously? I've seen you cite Kant, Rousseau, Plato, now we're talking about cultural norms. We're dealing with somebody clowning around in a showmatch of a video game. It's not exactly the scandal of the century. If getting beat by somebody playing with their foot in a video game is the worst thing that happened to Legend this year then maybe he should count his blessings and hope that 2018 is just as kind to him.
Non taken . I'm always a serious person, I think its just within my nature to analyse everything until everything becomes clear to me.
I donot think larva will do real apology to lx in privite not even in public.
I sponsored lots of game larva vs somepro. About two month ago,I sponsor larva vs someone,3/2,500balloons. I said to larva that I want to join game to and observer . Larva ignor what I said and start the game ,then he said 'sori" "sori" "I didnot see " .It looks like he didnot see my word.If true It is OK and I donot mind.But finally my friend (who speak korea language)told me that larva notice what I said ,larva talk in Korea language that he actually see what I said but still "ignor "me.
Here is the larva's black history (a korea friend told me this yesterday)^_^:
Larva use to smoke and had bad manner in SKT1 although he was not even a adult.When lose to someone (elder than him),he start to talk shit. Once he was drinking alcohol and eating pig's foot, and SKT1 coach find him.Larva got punished by coach and he should upload 40 replays of practice everyday.Larva thought coach was busy and would never watch his replays.Then larva upload replays ( only 2-3mins lenth) to the coach.Coachs watched these replays and decide wash larva away.When the new zerg-practicor come,larva was fired.Larva beg but no use.
Larva then prepare to interview as zerg-practicor of CJ.But he wear SKT1 uniform for the interview.CJ coach said to him:"are you crazy""you will do crazy things in the future and we donot want cover your ass and will not hire you"Then no company want larva.
Wow, very interesting stories. Can you also share some black history about Taiwan or Japan?
The black history is translated by my friend from korea forum. interesting .Not all korean like larva.
I mean Larva having a shitty personality is pretty well known to everybody in Korea. In fact, many progamers were revealed to have major personality flaws as they started streaming (biggest would be Sea). Not really surprising as these guys quit school(and every other social life) to go pro. Flash seems to be pretty clean though. SKT Practice Coach trOt personally said it on his stream and Larva's stream (Where Larva lied about it, then admitted). I don't think that should be used to judge Larva for this incident though. Also Larva's actions during his SKT Team house was literally over the line- to the point where he got kicked out. Not sure where BW Elitism + fanboism warped that into coddling that.
On December 07 2017 13:46 RCCar wrote: I mean Larva having a shitty personality is pretty well known to everybody in Korea. In fact, many progamers were revealed to have major personality flaws as they started streaming (biggest would be Sea). Not really surprising as these guys quit school(and every other social life) to go pro. Flash seems to be pretty clean though. SKT Practice Coach trOt personally said it on his stream and Larva's stream (Where Larva lied about it, then admitted). I don't think that should be used to judge Larva for this incident though. Also Larva's actions during his SKT Team house was literally over the line- to the point where he got kicked out. Not sure where BW Elitism + fanboism warped that into coddling that.
I agree with you. I am not going to judge someone. I just want to tell something western may not know . A few days ago,I thought larva was a encouragement guy who fight for his life.He has cancer but he still continue his stream.That's why I spend lots of balloons sponor his gaming . But this time he goes too far.I donot like it,as so many china sc fans donot like it.
Lx born in 1984 while larva 90's? How could possible Lx defeat larva. Lx is as the same age as Nada.Actually Lx's reputation in China may be as same as Nada in Korea. In the zotac interview I remenber Lx said twice that larva is strong and he can not defeat larva.Everyone know larva will beat Lx 3-0 even the china sc fans know it.But not in this way,not in foot way. So Lx shouldnot deserve the foot thing and the expence of his reputation.
Zotac now happy because they got lots of explosure.Zotac china seems had different opinion about the issue from zotac us.But as larva said,he gives a shit on ban, because how many time he will join zotac events next time? So foget about the ban thing.Let's talk about the foot action only.
In asia culture,the foot action definitely consider as a humiliate thing.I donot know much about western culture,maybe someone think it is funny.
Larva said he want to apology.But notice that the apology thing and lx deny happened a few hours later after the game ,after lx'weibo and china web media's report. Larva send the stuff to Lx:"If you donot feel good,I can apology" I wonder what kind apology it is.Is it a true apology? Lx deny the apology and I think it is a right deny.
On December 07 2017 13:46 RCCar wrote: I mean Larva having a shitty personality is pretty well known to everybody in Korea. In fact, many progamers were revealed to have major personality flaws as they started streaming (biggest would be Sea). Not really surprising as these guys quit school(and every other social life) to go pro. Flash seems to be pretty clean though. SKT Practice Coach trOt personally said it on his stream and Larva's stream (Where Larva lied about it, then admitted). I don't think that should be used to judge Larva for this incident though. Also Larva's actions during his SKT Team house was literally over the line- to the point where he got kicked out. Not sure where BW Elitism + fanboism warped that into coddling that.
I agree with you. I am not going to judge someone. I just want to tell something western may not know . A few days ago,I thought larva was a encouragement guy who fight for his life.He has cancer but he still continue his stream.That's why I spend lots of balloons sponor his gaming . But this time he goes too far.I donot like it,as so many china sc fans donot like it.
Lx born in 1984 while larva 90's? How could possible Lx defeat larva. Lx is as the same age as Nada.Actually Lx's reputation in China may be as same as Nada in Korea. In the zotac interview I remenber Lx said twice that larva is strong and he can not defeat larva.Everyone know larva will beat Lx 3-0 even the china sc fans know it.But not in this way,not in foot way. So Lx shouldnot deserve the foot thing and the expence of his reputation.
Zotac now happy because they got lots of explosure.Zotac china seems had different opinion about the issue from zotac us.But as larva said,he gives a shit on ban, because how many time he will join zotac events next time? So foget about the ban thing.Let's talk about the foot action only.
In asia culture,the foot action definitely consider as a humiliate thing.I donot know much about western culture,maybe someone think it is funny.
Larva said he want to apology.But notice that the apology thing and lx deny happened a few hours later after the game ,after lx'weibo and china web media's report. Larva send the stuff to Lx:"If you donot feel good,I can apology" I wonder what kind apology it is.Is it a true apology? Lx deny the apology and I think it is a right deny.
I didn't know Larva had cancer, I feel sorry for him. But seeing from the information you provided it indeed struck me that Larva's apology wasn't sincere, and from an East Asian cultural position Legend's refusal was indeed justified. I now agree that the key point here is the cultural gap, if people would stop assuming things and labelling people from their own cultural perspective things would've been a lot simpler.
Oh my god this is hilarious, and amazing for BW! People like me are coming back just because of the story Great display of showmanship And great for BW!
On December 07 2017 07:21 winson wrote: I personally don't like this behavior.
You will never see Germany soccer team intentionally give free penalty or play with a hand cuffed goal keeper against weaker opponent, they can play with young player or B team. Fedrer would not play with weaker hand or pretend sleeping when he play a showmatch with Fiji national champion.
Sure these things can draw attention and have more viewers, but it doesn't make it right. There is no rules against it but it doesn't mean there is no line. All handicaps if any should be given with both sides agree.
I don't want my favorite game with this kinds of shit, not my cup of tea. Larva went too far, I am glad he did get some punishment.
You see tennis charity matches with all sorts of crazy stuff happening Same with exhibition matches in football where retired players play
The fact is just some guys got entertained and make every reason whatever it is to defend their hero (or clown). www.youtube.com Neymar just did a rainbow trick, yes it was just a rainbow trick and all Athletic Bilbao player become very angry at him. After the match, Athletic coach Ernesto Valverde also claimed Neymar, who is coming towards the end of his second season with the Catalan giants, needs to learn that such gestures will not be tolerated in Spain. No one dared to say Neymar has right to do it even Enrique - Barca's coach. Do you get the point? In case you don't the point is you western nerds should try to learn some basics of your own culture first before saying anything about other cultures. And no what Larva did will not be accepted anywhere in the world by the public.
On December 07 2017 23:11 Qikz wrote: Wait. Larva has cancer?
Classicalyellow83 broke the news a year ago or so. But it was only "little cancer" and we should not be worried Larva said. I have not heard any more updates.
On December 07 2017 23:48 geod wrote: The fact is just some guys got entertained and make every reason whatever it is to defend their hero (or clown). www.youtube.com Neymar just did a rainbow trick, yes it was just a rainbow trick and all Athletic Bilbao player become very angry at him. After the match, Athletic coach Ernesto Valverde also claimed Neymar, who is coming towards the end of his second season with the Catalan giants, needs to learn that such gestures will not be tolerated in Spain. No one dared to say Neymar has right to do it even Enrique - Barca's coach. Do you get the point? In case you don't the point is you western nerds should try to learn some basics of your own culture first before saying anything about other cultures. And no what Larva did will not be accepted anywhere in the world by the public.
Substitute Larva with someone from North Korea Substitute Lx with someone from the US of A
I think, when it comes to Starcraft, it's easy to forget that sports and large international events are driven by money and politics. It's so obvious when it comes to Soccer, the olympics and hockey (remember the canada - russia series anyone?)... Anyway, I digress. Sports and politics have always been closely connected.
It's why you hear "USA USA USA" chants at The International anytime a team remotely close to being american appears on stage. If the opponents left the booth to dance around, or if they started playing with their feet, there would be outrage in the crowd and across the country... Especially if the offending team were from a rival nation and/or a nation with differing beliefs (Russia for instance).
On December 07 2017 23:48 geod wrote: The fact is just some guys got entertained and make every reason whatever it is to defend their hero (or clown). www.youtube.com Neymar just did a rainbow trick, yes it was just a rainbow trick and all Athletic Bilbao player become very angry at him. After the match, Athletic coach Ernesto Valverde also claimed Neymar, who is coming towards the end of his second season with the Catalan giants, needs to learn that such gestures will not be tolerated in Spain. No one dared to say Neymar has right to do it even Enrique - Barca's coach. Do you get the point? In case you don't the point is you western nerds should try to learn some basics of your own culture first before saying anything about other cultures. And no what Larva did will not be accepted anywhere in the world by the public.
Honestly, if people are so touchy that they can't handle something like that, that's their problem. They are the ones who need to grow up, if they can't have any fun or anything like that at all.
On December 07 2017 23:48 geod wrote: The fact is just some guys got entertained and make every reason whatever it is to defend their hero (or clown). www.youtube.com Neymar just did a rainbow trick, yes it was just a rainbow trick and all Athletic Bilbao player become very angry at him. After the match, Athletic coach Ernesto Valverde also claimed Neymar, who is coming towards the end of his second season with the Catalan giants, needs to learn that such gestures will not be tolerated in Spain. No one dared to say Neymar has right to do it even Enrique - Barca's coach. Do you get the point? In case you don't the point is you western nerds should try to learn some basics of your own culture first before saying anything about other cultures. And no what Larva did will not be accepted anywhere in the world by the public.
Honestly, if people are so touchy that they can't handle something like that, that's their problem. They are the ones who need to grow up, if they can't have any fun or anything like that at all.
Yes off course, they need to grow up and become more like Larva. I see grown ups behaving like Larva all time! (i hope you get my sarcasm)
On December 07 2017 23:48 geod wrote: The fact is just some guys got entertained and make every reason whatever it is to defend their hero (or clown). www.youtube.com Neymar just did a rainbow trick, yes it was just a rainbow trick and all Athletic Bilbao player become very angry at him. After the match, Athletic coach Ernesto Valverde also claimed Neymar, who is coming towards the end of his second season with the Catalan giants, needs to learn that such gestures will not be tolerated in Spain. No one dared to say Neymar has right to do it even Enrique - Barca's coach. Do you get the point? In case you don't the point is you western nerds should try to learn some basics of your own culture first before saying anything about other cultures. And no what Larva did will not be accepted anywhere in the world by the public.
Honestly, if people are so touchy that they can't handle something like that, that's their problem. They are the ones who need to grow up, if they can't have any fun or anything like that at all.
Yes off course, they need to grow up and become more like Larva. I see grown ups behaving like Larva all time! (i hope you get my sarcasm)
You missed the point pretty badly. Or maybe you ignored it on purpose, since it is really hard to miss. I don't know.
On December 07 2017 23:48 geod wrote: The fact is just some guys got entertained and make every reason whatever it is to defend their hero (or clown). www.youtube.com Neymar just did a rainbow trick, yes it was just a rainbow trick and all Athletic Bilbao player become very angry at him. After the match, Athletic coach Ernesto Valverde also claimed Neymar, who is coming towards the end of his second season with the Catalan giants, needs to learn that such gestures will not be tolerated in Spain. No one dared to say Neymar has right to do it even Enrique - Barca's coach. Do you get the point? In case you don't the point is you western nerds should try to learn some basics of your own culture first before saying anything about other cultures. And no what Larva did will not be accepted anywhere in the world by the public.
Honestly, if people are so touchy that they can't handle something like that, that's their problem. They are the ones who need to grow up, if they can't have any fun or anything like that at all.
Yes off course, they need to grow up and become more like Larva. I see grown ups behaving like Larva all time! (i hope you get my sarcasm)
You missed the point pretty badly. Or maybe you ignored it on purpose, since it is really hard to miss. I don't know.
People are different and cultures are different, some are more sensitive on issues like the one we are discussing in this thread, some are not. But people are clearly different, right? So what would you do in this life where people are different? Hurt other people and then dont care about their feelings and clear your self of any responsibility by blaming the offended for being immature? How is that fair? I could easily counter with saying that a real grown up is someone who are aware about this difference in sensitivity and developes strategies to prevent hurting other people. That is what creates a better society where we can exist toghether, despite our differences. Is that not what a grown up should care the most about? Please show me how i am missing the "point badly"
I guess i should just "grow up" and tell people to stop being sensitive whenever it suits me!
EPT
. I'm always a serious person, I think its just within my nature to analyse everything until everything becomes clear to me. 
