On August 07 2017 01:35 .gypsy wrote: Huh? What's this regional based league shit blizzard's aiming for? How come we're not talking about that??
To prevent korean players rape local heroes again and again and again. Whiteguy players can't get sponsors and income when they crushed by korean every month. No local player,no audience,no money. Looks like Blizzard try to avoid the mistake on SC2 events,that's a good news.regional based leagues are absolutely important to promotions outside of korea.
I agree. Region lock is the probably the main reason that allowed LoL esports to become so big in the rest of the world. SC2 needed something like that since day1
If I recall at the very beginning of SC2 it kinda was. I remember Idra/Huk winning MLG's, players like Nony/Painuser making top 8 (Incontrol as well). That went away once Koreans started participating, but at first Koreans did not participate.
People wanted Koreans to compete at first. As time went on it changed.
I think it'd be awesome if there was a foreigner BW league, sounds like a lot of fun!
At the same time though SC2 was a new game. I mean remember the upset in the TSL When MC was defeated? As much as I enjoy a good underdog story there wont be any foreigner who ever takes a game off Flash or anyone like that. Out of all the WCG's and foreign games the only real upset i can remember is A2 beating Jaedong in WCG(recently, im aware of the PJ/Savior games though)
On August 07 2017 01:35 .gypsy wrote: Huh? What's this regional based league shit blizzard's aiming for? How come we're not talking about that??
To prevent korean players rape local heroes again and again and again. Whiteguy players can't get sponsors and income when they crushed by korean every month. No local player,no audience,no money. Looks like Blizzard try to avoid the mistake on SC2 events,that's a good news.regional based leagues are absolutely important to promotions outside of korea.
I agree. Region lock is the probably the main reason that allowed LoL esports to become so big in the rest of the world. SC2 needed something like that since day1
If I recall at the very beginning of SC2 it kinda was. I remember Idra/Huk winning MLG's, players like Nony/Painuser making top 8 (Incontrol as well). That went away once Koreans started participating, but at first Koreans did not participate.
People wanted Koreans to compete at first. As time went on it changed.
I think it'd be awesome if there was a foreigner BW league, sounds like a lot of fun!
At the same time though SC2 was a new game. I mean remember the upset in the TSL When MC was defeated? As much as I enjoy a good underdog story there wont be any foreigner who ever takes a game off Flash or anyone like that. Out of all the WCG's and foreign games the only real upset i can remember is A2 beating Jaedong in WCG(recently, im aware of the PJ/Savior games though)
Depends on how far back you want to go I can't find anything about advocate beating jaedong though. at least not in WCG.
but there's really almost no foreigners beating koreans. Obviously you mentioned PJ beating savior in '07 Advocate beat silent_control in '05 (maybe that's what you meant?) Hellghost beat H.O.T-Forever in '03 Grrrr... beat Control in '03 blackman beat Essay in '02 ElkY beat GoRush in '01 (twice - first round WB and Loser's final) NTT beat Bassy in '00
Seems to me like the later you check, it gets more unlikely to see a foreigner even taking a game off a Korean.
On August 07 2017 01:35 .gypsy wrote: Huh? What's this regional based league shit blizzard's aiming for? How come we're not talking about that??
To prevent korean players rape local heroes again and again and again. Whiteguy players can't get sponsors and income when they crushed by korean every month. No local player,no audience,no money. Looks like Blizzard try to avoid the mistake on SC2 events,that's a good news.regional based leagues are absolutely important to promotions outside of korea.
I agree. Region lock is the probably the main reason that allowed LoL esports to become so big in the rest of the world. SC2 needed something like that since day1
If I recall at the very beginning of SC2 it kinda was. I remember Idra/Huk winning MLG's, players like Nony/Painuser making top 8 (Incontrol as well). That went away once Koreans started participating, but at first Koreans did not participate.
People wanted Koreans to compete at first. As time went on it changed.
I think it'd be awesome if there was a foreigner BW league, sounds like a lot of fun!
At the same time though SC2 was a new game. I mean remember the upset in the TSL When MC was defeated? As much as I enjoy a good underdog story there wont be any foreigner who ever takes a game off Flash or anyone like that. Out of all the WCG's and foreign games the only real upset i can remember is A2 beating Jaedong in WCG(recently, im aware of the PJ/Savior games though)
Depends on how far back you want to go I can't find anything about advocate beating jaedong though. at least not in WCG.
but there's really almost no foreigners beating koreans. Obviously you mentioned PJ beating savior in '07 Advocate beat silent_control in '05 (maybe that's what you meant?) Hellghost beat H.O.T-Forever in '03 Grrrr... beat Control in '03 blackman beat Essay in '02 ElkY beat GoRush in '01 (twice - first round WB and Loser's final) NTT beat Bassy in '00
Seems to me like the later you check, it gets more unlikely to see a foreigner even taking a game off a Korean.
Could be wrong but I think it was a game on Tau Cross in WCG.
In starcraft 1, it's far less likely for a stronger player to drop any maps to a lesser player.
In starcraft 2, beating koreans was possible for nearly everyone on a competitive level. Hell I beat mvp twice in offline series during his prime year (2012). Even playing sc2 in 2016 after a long break I could easily snowball games early on vs top players at the time and riding out the advantadge into a win. (despite not practicing a lot).
In sc1, it would never happen. You'll simply get outmuscled by mechanical power.
On August 07 2017 01:35 .gypsy wrote: Huh? What's this regional based league shit blizzard's aiming for? How come we're not talking about that??
To prevent korean players rape local heroes again and again and again. Whiteguy players can't get sponsors and income when they crushed by korean every month. No local player,no audience,no money. Looks like Blizzard try to avoid the mistake on SC2 events,that's a good news.regional based leagues are absolutely important to promotions outside of korea.
I agree. Region lock is the probably the main reason that allowed LoL esports to become so big in the rest of the world. SC2 needed something like that since day1
If I recall at the very beginning of SC2 it kinda was. I remember Idra/Huk winning MLG's, players like Nony/Painuser making top 8 (Incontrol as well). That went away once Koreans started participating, but at first Koreans did not participate.
People wanted Koreans to compete at first. As time went on it changed.
I think it'd be awesome if there was a foreigner BW league, sounds like a lot of fun!
At the same time though SC2 was a new game. I mean remember the upset in the TSL When MC was defeated? As much as I enjoy a good underdog story there wont be any foreigner who ever takes a game off Flash or anyone like that. Out of all the WCG's and foreign games the only real upset i can remember is A2 beating Jaedong in WCG(recently, im aware of the PJ/Savior games though)
Depends on how far back you want to go I can't find anything about advocate beating jaedong though. at least not in WCG.
but there's really almost no foreigners beating koreans. Obviously you mentioned PJ beating savior in '07 Advocate beat silent_control in '05 (maybe that's what you meant?) Hellghost beat H.O.T-Forever in '03 Grrrr... beat Control in '03 blackman beat Essay in '02 ElkY beat GoRush in '01 (twice - first round WB and Loser's final) NTT beat Bassy in '00
Seems to me like the later you check, it gets more unlikely to see a foreigner even taking a game off a Korean.
The one who beat Silent_Control (and not just in bo1, but 2-0 in a best of 3) was Androide. Blackman also made a brief return to SC that year and had beaten the eventual winner, forU, in the group stage (1-0).
Testie and Draco beat Midas in WCG 2006, that was cool. Draco took a game off oov too. Mondragon beat Reach in Blizzcon (?) 2005 as well. Ret beat Nada in something too I think?
The skill gap is a little exaggerated, it's certainly there and bigger than SC2 but foreigners took games off Koreans more often than people think when they played. Foreigners and Koreans just didn't play that much.
I think it has to be said that Bonyth, Trutacz and few others top foreigenrs has picked up multiple games from Korean pros. This is not in official tournaments obviously but still.
I just think we gotta go back to broodwar and man up. KR will dominate every e-sport because of how they practice/treat the game. I get it too, this game doesnt give you any bullshit at all like you suck ass and you know it. You gotta get good and theres only one way to do that here, if we rebuilt instead of just gave up i quite honestly believe it'd actually have an impact on the rest of our esport scenes.
Having gone to Overwatch and a couple other scenes at the top they still treat korean practice like its some mythical shit. Not obtainable but thats disrespectful across the board, they did it with the exact same shit any excuse we put up is gonna just hinder us. If we fall into that trap again it'll be the same thing. Its important that we don't put KR practice on a unreachable pedestal, it should be on the ground floor and accepted. Promote the joys of learning and not the difficulty of starcraft and respect not glorify whom we learn from.
On August 08 2017 03:49 vileChAnCe wrote: I just think we gotta go back to broodwar and man up. KR will dominate every e-sport because of how they practice/treat the game. I get it too, this game doesnt give you any bullshit at all like you suck ass and you know it. You gotta get good and theres only one way to do that here, if we rebuilt instead of just gave up i quite honestly believe it'd actually have an impact on the rest of our esport scenes.
Having gone to Overwatch and a couple other scenes at the top they still treat korean practice like its some mythical shit. Not obtainable but thats disrespectful across the board, they did it with the exact same shit any excuse we put up is gonna just hinder us. If we fall into that trap again it'll be the same thing. Its important that we don't put KR practice on a unreachable pedestal, it should be on the ground floor and accepted. Promote the joys of learning and not the difficulty of starcraft and respect not glorify whom we learn from.
Disagree. Everyone respects korea and practice, but the reality is, this is a video game. Korean pros play this game for a living and practice 10 hours aday every day for years and years. No one wants to do that, and certainly not for the very tiny amount of money in the foreign scene. And still, the foreign scene is pretty tiny-- so theres an intimacy to watching foreign tournaments, be they for [sc1]eonzerg or C rank players. We all know these people, or at least have had some run ins online with them.
If Blizzard doesnt segment tournaments in some sense, thats fine, because foreigners will simply play in our own community tournaments as we already do. But there shouldnt be any illusion or some sense of lazyness if we dont aspire to actually take games of Flash and the like, because that just isnt going to happen. WCG back in the day was fun to watch precisely because you could see names you knew and might have played against on the ladder, go up against the koreans. WCG was a regionally locked thing until the main event. I dont see any reason why blizzard shouldnt do something like that now, or why anyone should perceive it as 'unmanly' to accept that your not going to take a game off people who do this as a job, whereas its just a hobby in an otherwise crowded life for all of us.
On August 08 2017 03:49 vileChAnCe wrote: I just think we gotta go back to broodwar and man up. KR will dominate every e-sport because of how they practice/treat the game. I get it too, this game doesnt give you any bullshit at all like you suck ass and you know it. You gotta get good and theres only one way to do that here, if we rebuilt instead of just gave up i quite honestly believe it'd actually have an impact on the rest of our esport scenes.
Having gone to Overwatch and a couple other scenes at the top they still treat korean practice like its some mythical shit. Not obtainable but thats disrespectful across the board, they did it with the exact same shit any excuse we put up is gonna just hinder us. If we fall into that trap again it'll be the same thing. Its important that we don't put KR practice on a unreachable pedestal, it should be on the ground floor and accepted. Promote the joys of learning and not the difficulty of starcraft and respect not glorify whom we learn from.
I'm sorry, but my first thought whenever I read a post about someone telling the collective Western civilization to "man up" and practice like Koreans is that they need to put their money where their mouth is. If it's so simple, why aren't YOU grinding games and replays on the ladder 60 hours a week?
I'll tell you why, it's because you've got better things to do with your life. Because you're not a professional. There are NO professional foreign BW players, just really good amateurs. I don't think this is appreciated enough, but to all of us Brood War is a game. We play it because it's fun and we stop when it's not. These Korean pros didn't have that luxury. They played because it was their job.
Whoever wants to see Westerners practicing like Koreans needs to pick a few and pay them professional salaries to do nothing but grind games and replays all day.
It can not be overstated how big the gap between top foreigners and Koreans was. Idra put a big gap between himself and other foreigners, eventually, yet... he wasn't even an A-teamer. I think we went many years without even a replay coming to light of a non Korean beating a decent pro, on ladder.
I think nada eventually lost to one, and it came out that the other guy was hacking... The games aren't even competitive, forget about winning. The only non Korean you'd play who would even make you contemplate that you could be playing a Korean pro was day[9]. These guys were playing a "different game."
Non Koreans can't even beat Scan... and I've yet to see him even compete in a star league or appear in pro league.
EPT
