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On February 18 2016 05:37 skatblast wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2016 06:14 ProMeTheus112 wrote:On February 16 2016 16:15 papaz wrote:Flash playing BW is great! Awesome that he is going to stream, glhf Flash hope you destroy some nerds on stream  However this is terrible for Starcraft as such. For some reason SC2 wasn't the success we all wanted it to be. Some didn't like the mechanics (simplification), some the units, others the maps. Whatever the reason is I'm disappointed that Blizzard didn't at the very least gather all the pros to one game because as a spectator (I hardly play anymore) I love watching the pros and just seeing all the names in one tournament made me look forward to the weekend, getting some beer and pizza and watch starcraft all day. That hype is now gone  Blizzard attacked Starcraft for money. But attention and momentum shifting to BW is good for Starcraft, because it is the better game. If people remember Starcraft as being SC2, with the lesser depth, micro, strategy and everything that SC2 lacks compared to BW and the flaws it has like huge volatility etc, that is bad for Starcraft and bad for RTS. Whether RTS must remain a niche genre from now on, or make a revival at some point in the future, the reference for it must be the best game, and that is BW. Furthermore, it is imaginable that RTS lost momentum because of SC2. First of all because BW was the #1 and it got attacked by Blizzard to make way for SC2. Secondly because SC2 doesn't bring a lot of new things on the table and was never as much fun even for casual players to play online. If SC2 had been the amazing game it should have been, RTS would likely be in a much better spot right now. Because it is not, the best thing we can hope for is that BW is recognized and looked at as the reference for RTS. In My Opinion. They say the people who talk about vanilla wow like it is the best game ever invented are the most cynical people on the internet but people like you really take the cake. Those rose tinted goggles are so thick you cant see through them. I like BW, i was old enough to play it when it was released and still remember it. It was in no way funner to casual players than sc2 is, unless playing comp stomps is considered fun. When starcraft 2 came out it was actually pretty big for a few years, people moved on to other genres its not that big of a deal. Its not like if they didn't make sc2 there would be 200k people watching BW tournaments. I know this is a BW website but please stop treating starcraft 2 like it destroyed the structure of esport.
Ive played starcraft through the lens of a casual gamer and a "serious" gamer. No way in hell was sc2 more fun than brood war ever was,even when playing casually. Sc2 is the equivalent to stale bread 🍞
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On February 18 2016 05:49 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 05:37 skatblast wrote:On February 17 2016 06:14 ProMeTheus112 wrote:On February 16 2016 16:15 papaz wrote:Flash playing BW is great! Awesome that he is going to stream, glhf Flash hope you destroy some nerds on stream However this is terrible for Starcraft as such. For some reason SC2 wasn't the success we all wanted it to be. Some didn't like the mechanics (simplification), some the units, others the maps. Whatever the reason is I'm disappointed that Blizzard didn't at the very least gather all the pros to one game because as a spectator (I hardly play anymore) I love watching the pros and just seeing all the names in one tournament made me look forward to the weekend, getting some beer and pizza and watch starcraft all day. That hype is now gone Blizzard attacked Starcraft for money. But attention and momentum shifting to BW is good for Starcraft, because it is the better game. If people remember Starcraft as being SC2, with the lesser depth, micro, strategy and everything that SC2 lacks compared to BW and the flaws it has like huge volatility etc, that is bad for Starcraft and bad for RTS. Whether RTS must remain a niche genre from now on, or make a revival at some point in the future, the reference for it must be the best game, and that is BW. Furthermore, it is imaginable that RTS lost momentum because of SC2. First of all because BW was the #1 and it got attacked by Blizzard to make way for SC2. Secondly because SC2 doesn't bring a lot of new things on the table and was never as much fun even for casual players to play online. If SC2 had been the amazing game it should have been, RTS would likely be in a much better spot right now. Because it is not, the best thing we can hope for is that BW is recognized and looked at as the reference for RTS. In My Opinion. They say the people who talk about vanilla wow like it is the best game ever invented are the most cynical people on the internet but people like you really take the cake. Those rose tinted goggles are so thick you cant see through them. I like BW, i was old enough to play it when it was released and still remember it. It was in no way funner to casual players than sc2 is, unless playing comp stomps is considered fun. When starcraft 2 came out it was actually pretty big for a few years, people moved on to other genres its not that big of a deal. Its not like if they didn't make sc2 there would be 200k people watching BW tournaments. I know this is a BW website but please stop treating starcraft 2 like it destroyed the structure of esport. Ive played starcraft through the lens of a casual gamer and a "serious" gamer. No way in hell was sc2 more fun than brood war ever was,even when playing casually. Sc2 is the equivalent to stale bread 🍞
And the reason why it is a stale bread is because of its lack of micro-able unit composition.
There are just more dynamic interaction during battles in BW because you actually get to keep your army position so you can outmaneuver around by troop movement.
In SC2, they don't have, its all clumped up and if you mess up, you can't even back off to your nearest high ground to take cover, you have to either bait the other force or go all in.
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Even playing the newb maps like zero clutter are no way near as fun as they are in brood war.
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Maybe there is a chance now that we can get bw back to something close to what it was before blizzard killed it. Now JD please come back...
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On February 18 2016 07:25 Elroi wrote:
Maybe there is a chance now that we can get bw back to something close to what it was before blizzard killed it. Now JD please come back... To be fair to blizzard, even before sc2 came out, bw viewership had been in terminal decline for several years. I remember reading at one point it reached its peak around 2005 or 2006, which is why teams were struggling to hold onto funding and the OSL struggled, even before match fixing/the transition to sc2 began.
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On February 18 2016 10:22 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 07:25 Elroi wrote:
Maybe there is a chance now that we can get bw back to something close to what it was before blizzard killed it. Now JD please come back... To be fair to blizzard, even before sc2 came out, bw viewership had been in terminal decline for several years. I remember reading at one point it reached its peak around 2005 or 2006, which is why teams were struggling to hold onto funding and the OSL struggled, even before match fixing/the transition to sc2 began.
Only because Blizzard was suing OGN/Kespa.
Jeez, who would invest in "illegal tournaments"?
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gamenote weekly rankings
shows overall popularity of games in korea(pc bang+home)
as of this post
BW is at 15th
sc2 is at 27th
and this is just a few months after LotV release. if not for that expansion it would have been further down the list.
comparison to 2011 where sc2 is above BW based on this old thread
even after so mannyyy years BW has always been ranked consistently high in the korean popularity chart even with all the random new games over the years. so don't give me that decline crap.
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jesus, if that is no good news, there is no good news for bw :D
hyped!
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Japan11502 Posts
BW actually went up 3 places :o
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Do we have a confirmed time on the 21st for the stream start? Gotta figure out when I'm going to eat mah foods 
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On February 18 2016 12:41 L_Master wrote:Do we have a confirmed time on the 21st for the stream start? Gotta figure out when I'm going to eat mah foods
gogo Skype Starleague night
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We 've been joking about thins for years now and it's actually happeing. anyways I am super hyped to see flash play broodwar again
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On February 18 2016 13:25 art_of_turtle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 12:41 L_Master wrote:Do we have a confirmed time on the 21st for the stream start? Gotta figure out when I'm going to eat mah foods gogo Skype Starleague night
Absolutely!
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Is so good.
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Canada8159 Posts
What time is this at? Can we get a countdown timer?
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On February 18 2016 10:22 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2016 07:25 Elroi wrote:
Maybe there is a chance now that we can get bw back to something close to what it was before blizzard killed it. Now JD please come back... To be fair to blizzard, even before sc2 came out, bw viewership had been in terminal decline for several years. I remember reading at one point it reached its peak around 2005 or 2006, which is why teams were struggling to hold onto funding and the OSL struggled, even before match fixing/the transition to sc2 began.
"to be fair", "terminal decline" ? Are you stupid? One of BW's strengths was always it's relative viewership popularity. The most recent Proleagues were highly viewed. Issues with funding were due to external factors unrelated to viewership or gameplay. And even without a current "pro" scene, it is still attracting sponsors, and viewership. Contrast with pro SC2 in Korea: a very short time after it was released - viewership and attendance numbers PLUMMETED, to the point where it was no longer economically viable. The fact that SC2 failed so badly - even in an environment that was groomed for its success (and where the infrastructure was already complete) - is just a testament to how bad the game was - for the recreational, pro-players, and viewers. Gameplay and entertainment are what made BW so popular, and Blizzard could not have dropped the ball any worse on a sequel, in these respects. SC2 was in trouble from the outset, and soon it will be gone - deservedly so.
User was warned for this post
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I have just watched 2 games Effort vs Timena (C rank terran Fish) and again I have very strong feeling Timena is fFash: messy depots (and build placement in general), no rally point for SCVs, CC 1st in 2nd game, extremely strong macro, everything basically reminds me of Flash.
Timena won 2-0.
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On February 19 2016 00:00 kogeT wrote:
I have just watched 2 games Effort vs Timena (C rank terran Fish) and again I have very strong feeling Timena is fFash: messy depots (and build placement in general), no rally point for SCVs, CC 1st in 2nd game, extremely strong macro, everything basically reminds me of Flash.
Timena won 2-0.
Yeah, Afreeca chat seems to think Timena is Flash as well, but then Afreeca chat...
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Do we have EffOrt's reaction to losing?
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EPT
