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quoting what i said in the gg.net thread:
"producing this well is hell a lot of work, as you would have to do most of the playing yourself to capture the mouse live with camtasia or
smthing.
i thought this project through about a year ago and came to the conclusion that its just too much work for a single person, yet its too difficult to split over the internet."
working with replays just isn't going to work as new players will be confused big-time. also you really need to see when and how someone moves his mouse around, clicks or uses hotkeys to really explain what is happening during a broowar game on a basic level.
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It can be split over the internet if you have a dedicated community and someone that gives such narrow instructions that there is hardly room for error.
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well, it would be enough if more RWA were made with comments, like one Twisted made of Mondragon:
"He is doing this because of that, and now he will do this to prevent that, but now he is suffering of this because he didn't do X."
that's the best way to learn in my opinion. To play at his full potential a guy has to be concentrated.
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Sweden33723 Posts
On June 01 2006 07:18 jacen wrote:
quoting what i said in the gg.net thread:
"producing this well is hell a lot of work, as you would have to do most of the playing yourself to capture the mouse live with camtasia or
smthing.
i thought this project through about a year ago and came to the conclusion that its just too much work for a single person, yet its too difficult to split over the internet."
working with replays just isn't going to work as new players will be confused big-time. also you really need to see when and how someone moves his mouse around, clicks or uses hotkeys to really explain what is happening during a broowar game on a basic level.
He can get a couple of good players to show different things (I'm almost certain nony would be game for this, I would, maybe midian? maybe day? maybe testie?) and record it, then he/others would do the editing :>
But for the first video we'd need some replays/vods just to show off the game you know? What it looks like and so on, as well as the bare basics of an instructional ;p
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this project could take months for it to be somewhat decent. there is so much to consider that you may detour from it. but having your enthusiasm will surely motivate others to do well and hold their spirits up.
My thought about the project:
when introducing Build Orders (BOs) you should give credit to those who created them, like the Gundam Rush. Followed by the Pros and Cons and demonstrating them personally. after demonstrating it personally with audio, show a replay of the orignal creator executing it.
As for mirco, macro, expoing, etc demonstrate these into individual videos as well because they don't belong to one race so making 3 videos isn't well suited. if you try to bunch them up, it'll be unorganized and alittle bit confusing for the new player.
-and also present everything concisely. if you do a well job in explaining details the more deserving in why it should be an official guide.
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There is sooooo much to cover though... i'm sure you could easily make enough videos for a DVD O_O it sounds like a project that would take up most of your time, and when you finish it'll probably be under close scrutiny. but on the other hand, i'm sure a lot of people would appreciate your effort no matter how it turned out.
so if you do decide to go for it, good luck!
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Sweden33723 Posts
On June 01 2006 10:37 hsidori wrote:
There is sooooo much to cover though... i'm sure you could easily make enough videos for a DVD O_O it sounds like a project that would take up most of your time, and when you finish it'll probably be under close scrutiny. but on the other hand, i'm sure a lot of people would appreciate your effort no matter how it turned out.
so if you do decide to go for it, good luck!
Yeah, making it into a dvd would be ideal 
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i'd really love to help, but wont be able to
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I think we should all get together on msn or irc and discuss this through, about who wants to do what and how we're going to do it. I'm sure that a huge project like this will fail horribly, if it isn't planned well. As I said before, anyone interested in helping, add lorenz_jaeger at hotmail dot com to your list and we should fix a time, where we can really talk this over.
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I will make it into a DVD, but first I will produce them as many short movies were I cover a bit for bit, and when I have enough to make a DVD iso I will just make everything to a DVD iso that you can use everywere... I still cant begin to start on tuesday when I have my last homework for this school year, but I would still want many suggestions and tips... I check this site on a regular basis and I have decided that I are to make at least 1 hour of educational movie =P
Anyway... Thanks for all the help I have gotten so far I will thank FrozenArbiter to come up with some links to games, but I still need more, and I still want suggestions, so keep them coming =)
(If you want to join the project ether with suplying with vods when you plays, or reps or video editing etc. add me to my MSN: anhjort at gmail.com)
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If anyone knows how, we could make a IRC channel about this too =)
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How about the teamliquid IRC channel? It's quiet enough. 
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On June 01 2006 08:26 FrozenArbiter wrote:
He can get a couple of good players to show different things (I'm almost certain nony would be game for this, I would, maybe midian? maybe day? maybe testie?) and record it, then he/others would do the editing :>
have fun sending 400mb clips over the internet.
and that is only if you can get the players to compress their videos with huffman.
as i said ... it will take ages and consume enormous ammounts of bandwith to get all the video material to the ppl that are editing/cutting it.
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Sweden33723 Posts
Bittorrent isn't that hard to use honestly.. And you can make stuff a hell of a lot smaller than 400 mb - hell, if movies you download can be compressed to take up just 600~ mb, I'm sure this could be done here too =.= (although I realize that compressing videos of BW makes it kinda ugly).
Anyway, I don't think it's as hard as you make it out to be as long as people have good connections and patience. DC++ or bittorrent would be fine.. Speaking of Dc++, maybe setting up a hub just for this could work (sharing files + chat).
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There's already been 21 episodes on GameTV.co.kr:
http://gametv.co.kr/index.php?module=tv&submodule=program&pgm_code=15
The guy actually begins to teach you Starcraft on a chalkboard, with the basic layout of buildings, but surprisingly covers the basics quickly and thoroughly. He knows the viewer knows something about Starcraft, so he gets into the theories quickly. I particularly liked his theory using the graph that looked like f(x) = sin x.
They prepare the program well, with UseMapSettings that they've made to simulate certain situations (like attacking from both sides versus attacking from one side). He also shows you replays and VODs of progamers that support the topics he's teaching.
A lot of what you guys said, such as introducing Starcraft, what it is, and what is so appealing about it, to topics such as differentiating the tech-trees for Protoss (how Cybernetics Core is the main root, which branches into either Robotics tech, Templar tech, or Stargate Tech in a given game) are all covered in the VODs.
These are the episodes he's covered (each is around 45~60 minutes long):
1. Introduction - Moving on from a Chobo
2. Differences of the three races, relationships in tech tree
3. Units and Control
4. Organization of Control & Classification of Units
5. Understanding Units
6. Classification of Attack-Types, Unit Sizes & Group Control
7. Real Tactics Lecture (1) - Worker Tactics
8. Real Tactics Lecture (2) - Basic Units' Battle
9. Real Tactics Lecture (3) - Defensive Tactics and Expansion
10. Real Tactics Lecture (4) - Group Movements & Employing Tactics
11. Real Tactics Lecture (5) - Splash
12. Real Tactics Lecture (6) - Magic
13. Way To Conquer Each Race (1) - Terran vs Zerg
14. Way To Conquer Each Race (2) - Zerg vs Terran
15. Way To Conquer Each Race (1) - Terran vs Protoss
16. Way To Conquer Each Race (2) - Protoss vs Terran
17. Way To Conquer Each Race (1) - Protoss vs Zerg
18. Way To Conquer Each Race (2) - Zerg vs Protoss
19. Way To Fight the Same Race (1) - Zerg vs Zerg Part One
20. Way To Fight the Same Race (2) - Zerg vs Zerg Part Two
21. Way To Fight the Same Race (1) - Protoss vs Protoss Part One
============================
Apparently the program was cancelled. Gametv hasn't really been active for the past year or so. But this was the most thorough VODs I've seen so far in terms of teaching Starcraft. I think some korean people on the forums on the website were talking about translating them into Chinese. I would translate them to English, but I don't know how to save the video files + put subtitles.
MBCGame also has this "Starcraft Class" with IntoTheRain, where he teaches you certain builds and strategies, first showing you the replay and then showing an actual VOD of the thing.
The only thing close to teaching Starcraft from Ongamenet that I've seen was the few minutes where a progamer comes out and teaches you little tips, which you've probably seen, such as Pusan[S.G] teaching you how to get rid of spider mines without observers.
If anyone could teach me how to capture the VODs and add subtitles, I could work on them.
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Sweden33723 Posts
:o
Wow.
Well, I don't know how to subtitle but googling brought up http://armitage.crinkle.net/karinkuru/howtosub/ which seems well-done at a glance :o
That would be really cool to have translated, but even so, it would be fun to make one. + I'm sure there are things we'd want to cover which isn't in this ;O
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is awesome32282 Posts
Nice info instantbuzz
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Are msn, aim and yahoo messenger compatible? I've only ever used ym Do I need trilobyte (is that what it was called) to chat with you guys?
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On June 02 2006 08:51 FrozenArbiter wrote::o Wow. Well, I don't know how to subtitle but googling brought up http://armitage.crinkle.net/karinkuru/howtosub/ which seems well-done at a glance :o That would be really cool to have translated, but even so, it would be fun to make one. + I'm sure there are things we'd want to cover which isn't in this ;O
Yeah, I meant that you might want to look at the Gametv ones as reference. It would definitely be fun to make one.
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EPT
