Fomos has recently opened up a poll that asked 3 questions to their users.
So far, here are the questions and responses:
Question 1. What's the best BoX format for SPL? 1. Keep 5 days per week and Bo7: 708 votes (57.2%) 2. Change it to Bo5 but keep it 5 days per week: 143 votes (11.6%) 3. Change it to Bo5 and 3~4 days per week: 241 votes (19.5%) 4. Other: 146 votes (11.8%)
Question 2. Winnersleague. Change or keep? 1. Keep it 2 rounds, just like previous season: 529 votes (44.9%) 2. Change it to 1 round: 531 votes (45.1%) 3. Take it out of SPL: 101 votes (8.5%) 4. Other: 16 votes (1.4%)
Question 3. StarCraft 2: if KeSPA runs SC2 league, when's the best possible timing? 1. We don't need it: 565 votes (44.2%) 2. For now, play BW and gradually move into SC2 (co-existance): 469 votes (36.7%) 3. Start SC2 right now: 233 Votes (18.2%) 4. Other: 11 votes (0.9%)
So given these 3 questions, I'm going to ask Teamliquid the same questions. (Though I'm not expecting a good poll result for question 3 since putting the question here is kind of biased.)
Poll: What's the best BoX format for SPL?
Keep 5 days per week and Bo7 (194)
55%
Other (state why) (74)
21%
Change it to Bo5 and 3~4 days per week (70)
20%
Change it to Bo5 but keep it 5 days per week (14)
4%
352 total votes
Your vote: What's the best BoX format for SPL?
(Vote): Keep 5 days per week and Bo7 (Vote): Change it to Bo5 but keep it 5 days per week (Vote): Change it to Bo5 and 3~4 days per week (Vote): Other (state why)
Poll: Winnersleague. Change or keep?
Change it to 1 round (238)
69%
Keep it 2 rounds, just like previous season (101)
29%
Take it out of SPL (5)
1%
Other (3)
1%
347 total votes
Your vote: Winnersleague. Change or keep?
(Vote): Keep it 2 rounds, just like previous season (Vote): Change it to 1 round (Vote): Take it out of SPL (Vote): Other
Poll: StarCraft 2: if KeSPA runs SC2 league, when's the best possible timin
We don't need it (347)
74%
For now, play BW and gradually move into SC2 (co-existance) (84)
18%
Start SC2 right now (36)
8%
Other (2)
0%
469 total votes
Your vote: StarCraft 2: if KeSPA runs SC2 league, when's the best possible timin
(Vote): We don't need it (Vote): For now, play BW and gradually move into SC2 (co-existance) (Vote): Start SC2 right now (Vote): Other
Keep 5 days a week, bo7 Change it to one round(its ridicilous how KT went 16-2, or 18-3 or whatever it was and had an abyssmal regular pro-league season yet still finished with a #3 spot in the playoffs)
Don't really need SC2 right now but it would be nice to see as long as it does not in any way, shape or form affect the BW proscene.
I don't mind two rounds of Winners League, so long as they are not consecutively. A format where the Loser stays could be hilarious too, but maybe that's better suited for All Star games.
I've got no real opinion on the SC2 thing. I would be happy if coexistence was possible.
It kinda depends on if MBC is sticking around, 2 matches per day probably won't work that well if it's only broadcast on OGN. People probably aren't going to watch 5 hours of straight brood war every day
On October 14 2011 02:35 Antoine wrote: yeah i wish there was an option for bo7 still but less days, i voted for the only bo7 option but id prefer the less days still bo7 approach
On October 14 2011 02:37 Simplistik wrote: Definitely Bo7, but 3-4 days is probably better.
I don't mind two rounds of Winners League, so long as they are not consecutively. A format where the Loser stays could be hilarious too, but maybe that's better suited for All Star games.
I've got no real opinion on the SC2 thing. I would be happy if coexistence was possible.
What the hell? Does no one care about the progamers' condition? Reduce the playdays, let them rest -.-
That being said: 3-4 days a week, maybe even 2. Bo7, encourage teams to develop their entire lineup instead of relying on aces. Winner's League should just be one round. Dunno about time placement, seems like where it was this past season was fine. We don't need no frackin' SC2!
On October 14 2011 02:54 khy wrote: What the hell? Does no one care about the progamers' condition? Reduce the playdays, let them rest -.-
That being said: 3-4 days a week, maybe even 2. Bo7, encourage teams to develop their entire lineup instead of relying on aces. Winner's League should just be one round. Dunno about time placement, seems like where it was this past season was fine. We don't need no frackin' SC2!
2 per week won't even help you finish Proleague with min 5 rounds (with MBC not streaming SPL)
On October 14 2011 02:55 J1.au wrote: Quick question, does Fomos cover SC2 at all?
They recently started doing so, but many people still hangout on playxp. SC2 players (non-progamers i should say... or non-progamers and progamers) do check fomos however, as fomos is THE biggest esports related website in Korea afaik.
Other: 3-4 days, Bo7. Wish this was a poll option, but whatever. I like Bo7s. Presumably with 8 teams, there's a match every day, 4 days a week. 5 rounds probably, so 35 weeks of SC? Two weeks off between each round.... would leave a 3 month off season, hm. Maybe 6 rounds still? Don't know how long a season "should" be.
WL: 2 or 1 are both fine. Really don't have an opinion here either way. Wouldn't remove it though, not until we see an allKILLERRRRRR. It's gonna happen. Guarantee it. Also he's gonna win the next OSL, if he doesn't pause the damn game...
SC2: If it intends to coexist, fine. But not to replace. Never. But when would you broadcast it? OGN's already going to be full of BW as-is trying to cover SPL alone. Seems it'd be much more viable if MBC was still here. 4 matches a week across two channels would provide lots of timeslots for both games and other ESPORTS offerings the channels have.
(other) BO7, 3-4 days. Progamers need rest yo. 1 round Winner's League... (Kt making an absurd comeback to place third from next-to-last or some shit is ridiculous) no need.
KeSPA cannot begin holding/organizing SC2 tournaments anyway can they? Gretech still has exclusive rights for another year or so, am I right? So what's with the SC2 question? Or would KeSPA and Gretech work together maybe? That seems like it could become a very complicated relationship to say the least.
5 days and Bo7, 2 rounds of WL, We don't need SC2.
On October 14 2011 03:30 Tadah wrote: KeSPA cannot begin holding/organizing SC2 tournaments anyway can they? Gretech still has exclusive rights for another year or so, am I right? So what's with the SC2 question? Or would KeSPA and Gretech work together maybe? That seems like it could become a very complicated relationship to say the least.
For holding an SC2 tourney, KeSPA needs to pay 1 won per season. For broadcasting an SC2 tourney, KeSPA needs to pay 100,000 won per season. This is the deal iirc.
I would prefer to keep the best of 7 format but reduce the number of days down to like 3. It helps to build the younger progamers into better ones.
Winnersleague should go back down to just one round.
I would like to see SC2 be integrated into KeSPA for 2 reasons. First is that the tension needs to stop with KeSPA and whoever is in charge for Korea's SC2 scene. It's hurting Brood War and it's hurting StarCraft 2. The second reason is that I find OGN to be vastly better at televising stuff than GOM is (OGN is a TV station after all).
Bo7 and the teams playing 1 game a week. If 8 teams then matches will be on 4 days. This gives players time to prepare as well as time for OSL / MSL training. Having teams do 2 games a week is just silly - unless you invest in the younger talent.
Stay Bo7 of course, but reducing the days would accommodate the fact that there are less teams. Definitely keep WL, but reduce it to 1 round, we don't need that many games.
Bo7, 3-4 days. I really like the Bo7 format because it allows much more exposure for rookies. I really don't think 5 day weeks are necessary when there are going to be less teams, and a 3-4 day week will allow some players to get the rest and preparation they need (especially for all the team aces).
I can only agree with the majority here. Bo7 but less days. As was mentioned in Milkis' article this will lead to higher quality games and means less pressure for the players. And I don't really care if they do SC2 as long as they don't drop BW.
Bo7 and make it 3-4 days a week. 1 round of winner's league, I really prefer pre-planned sets though. As for sc2 I see no reason why they can't coexist, though it seems like the majority of people aren't really interested. brodcasting WCG and such seems like a fair compromise for now.
On October 14 2011 05:36 s.Q.uelched wrote: IMO with fewer days and bo7 we get more interesting matches, since the progamers have more time to prepare, and it will be not as hard to keep up.
Exactly. When matches are played almost everyday it gets mundane and boring, so then I eventually only watch select matches. I think this change is crucial to the success of BW.
Other (keep bo7 but do 4 days a week, dunno about that new broadcasting station) Only 1 round of Winners League (Give Ace a chance to Win SPL, goddammit...) We don't need no frackin' SC2!
Part of the problem with SPL is that there are too many games. Fans demand more, more, MORE games all the time, but then they watch a much lower percentage of them, meaning tv ratings go down and seats are left empty. This is especially a problem for less popular teams and probably a HUGE factor in why they lost sponsorship. If there was full attendance at every game with lots of fans coming up all the time those sponsorship deals might not have been lost.
Right now, BW is over-exposed. It's not that I want to see less BW on tv, but that fans care less and less about any particular match because there are just so many matches and there's not enough overall interest to sustain the current pace.
SPL should cut down to 3-4 games per week, 1 round of SWL. Matches should stay Bo7 though. With the reduction in teams fewer players will get exposed, meaning it's the same small set of players that would get seen. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that a rule should be in place that a player can only appear in so many regular (non-ace) games per round. This would force teams to develop new stars, which might help spark some renewed interest in this great game.
On October 14 2011 06:30 FabledIntegral wrote: Why are people against KESPA in SC2 :S. As long as it doesn't take from BW. Or is the assumption that it will?
It will certainly be something more for KeSPA to expend on, and as we can see koreans aren't amazed at SC2 at all.
bo7/5 out of those options, but can cut a day or two if progamers/teams really need it. Anything except Bo5 is fine pretty much, we saw some pretty decent rookies last season, no need to cut into theirs + any other up and coming player's playing time.
Winners League out imo, I don't actually hate watching it, but given a choice I'd have it gone in favor of a uniform match structure.
Gradually move into SC2 for the third option. Sticking with BW is a priority, but it obviously won't last forever.
Format: Other. I like Bo7, but would prefer to see 2-4 days (depending on schedule etc.).
Winners Leage: Other. Dream League format ftw, either all rounds or replacing at least one round of WL.
SC2: If KeSPA wants to get involved, they should start now. Certainly no later than HotS release. But one caveat, they should clearly run in tandem with BW leagues, not try to force a switch.
I think I'd like to see something along the lines of:
SPL 4 days a week. I'd love to see a full season of dream league format, but that's unlikely. OSL continuing to run: 1 day (sometimes 2). A "trial run" open SC2 individual league running 1 day a week.
If prime-time somehow would be forced to choose, priority should be OSL -> SPL -> SC2.
Hmmm, there should be an option for Bo7 3~4 days a week, IMO. Bo5 or Bo7. 3~4 days or 5 days. That's 4 options, 5 including "other."
Although I love the Winner's League format, I can see why people would prefer 1 round rather than 2, and I agree with that.
Although KeSPA doesn't need to adopt SC2 right now, I think it's inevitable that it will eventually be adopted sometime in the future, though BW will obviously still be given higher priority. It's not needed right now, though I would love to see some of the KeSPA mapmakers try their hands at SC2 maps.
I was thinking Bo5s five days a week with some sort of stipulation about player reuse. For example, under last season's schedule there were two consecutive rounds of regular PL, then Winners League, then two more consecutive rounds of regular PL. Maybe the rule could be that the same players cannot appear twice against the same team in consecutive rounds, so if KT fielded Flash, Stats, Action, and Barracks against SKT in R1, they would have to pick four different players to face them in R2. This rule would not apply to ace matches. (If this is too strict, you can always tweak it so only 2-3 of the players must change, which would help teams like the former Oz by allowing them to at least use Jaedong or Killer every time.)
The benefit of this system is that matches are shortened, making them more watchable for live and TV spectators alike, without sacrificing player diversity. It would also add more strategy to the process of selecting players during the match, since half the time under the current system you can guess who the 5th and 6th players will be just by looking at who hasn't played yet that night. The only drawback I can see is that if a relatively weak team uses its four strongest players in the first match, it'll look like they're fielding their B-team in the second, but I think with fewer games to play teams will strategize more and try to mix in weaker players with special builds to preserve their stronger players for the next match. We might also see more high-quality marquee matchups in ace matches; if Jaedong's team and KT are meeting but both he and Flash played in the last round's match, the only game they have to practice for is the ace.
but I think 7 games series are great, We wake up at like 3am, lets make it worth it!! But decrease number of days a week so more rest of players. Need 2 rounds of SPL for epicness.
4 Days of Bo7/week and a Dream League featured match weekly Go with 2 rounds of WL BUT not consecutive rounds (R2 and 5 in a 6 round format); or else go with 1 WL round only [If 1 WL round only, more Dream League matches] I'm okay if KeSPA and OGN want to try out showing SC2 games because it will force GOM to improve their production quality, but make the two scenes stay separated from each other.
I know that the 3 day final format wasn't successful, but it really is quite amazing. To see Fantasy demolishing Jaedong on two days gave me goosebumps. Flash beating best twice in one day, not so much.
What's the best BoX format for SPL? Other. I like the Bo7 format because it's allowed many talented rookies to grow and i would like a reduced schedule for the progamers 4 days a week. + Show Spoiler +
lol at comments. Is screenshot of fomos poll comments allowed?
On October 14 2011 12:36 ShadeR wrote: What's the best BoX format for SPL? Other. I like the Bo7 format because it's allowed many talented rookies to grow and i would like a reduced schedule for the progamers 4 days a week. + Show Spoiler +
lol at comments. Is screenshot of fomos poll comments allowed?
I don't know why people care so much about less than 5 days a week. The past few seasons, it was 5 days a week on two stations. That's 10 games every week. Even if they were to keep broadcasting 5 days a week on OGN, the max IMO would be 6 games(5 games seem difficult from a schedule standpoint).
The most natural would either be 4 days a week, with every team playing once, or 5 days a week, where half the teams play twice and the other half play once. This would mean a double-header for one day(likely a weekend). Either way, the number of games for everyone's favorite team or player should dramatically reduce regardless of how many days they play. So why get so worked up about it?
I think 5 days a week on one station instead of two is a good amount. Last season a lot of the time it was like "shit what to watch what to watch..." when two potentially good matches were on at the same time. A lot of the streamers would stream the other match in a window in the corner and I would try watch two games at once if both looked good, but it's pretty hard to watch two things at once.
progamers need more time for individual leagues (1 less day = check)
teams are bigger than before and therefore need more of an opportunity to field more players (hence best of 7)
WL is exciting an all but i'd rather have more players get the chance to play. it adds more randomness and chance to the mix, rather than just having one team's ace bash everyone's head in
On October 14 2011 14:14 baubo wrote: I don't know why people care so much about less than 5 days a week. The past few seasons, it was 5 days a week on two stations. That's 10 games every week. Even if they were to keep broadcasting 5 days a week on OGN, the max IMO would be 6 games(5 games seem difficult from a schedule standpoint).
The most natural would either be 4 days a week, with every team playing once, or 5 days a week, where half the teams play twice and the other half play once. This would mean a double-header for one day(likely a weekend). Either way, the number of games for everyone's favorite team or player should dramatically reduce regardless of how many days they play. So why get so worked up about it?
Viewing it from a broadcasting PoV:
Assumptions are a minimum of 5 rounds (4 rounds regular and 1 round WL)
At 4 days/week 1 match/week day: 4 matches per week 28 matches per round = 7 weeks/round Each team plays once a week
StarLeague broadcasts can fit into a full Wednesday/Saturday or Saturday/Sunday schedule.
5 rounds = 35 weeks of regular season with 4 weeks for breaks between rounds + 1 week WL Playoffs + 3 weeks SPL Playoffs (1 week delay before Finals) = 43/52 weeks with ProLeague
6 rounds = 42 weeks of regular season with 5 weeks for breaks between rounds + 1 week WL Playoffs + 3 weeks SPL Playoffs (1 week delay before Finals) = 50/52 weeks with ProLeague
6 rounds is not possible at this rate.
5 rounds makes sense with 9 weeks between the end of the season and the next one
At 5 days/week 1 match/week day + doubled weekend: 6 matches per week 28 matches per round = 5 weeks/round (1 week of 4 matches) Each team plays once a week for 3 weeks and gets 2x a week for 2 weeks
StarLeague broadcasts can fit into a Wednesday + free Weekend day schedule.
5 rounds = 25 weeks of regular season + 4 weeks round breaks + 4 weeks for WL and SPL Playoffs = 33 weeks of ProLeague
6 rounds = 30 weeks of regular season + 5 weeks round breaks + 4 weeks for WL and SPL Playoffs = 39 weeks of ProLeague
6 rounds makes more sense, with 3 months for the off-season.
Thus the most viable choice is either to do 5 rounds (1 round WL + 4 SPL) on a 4x/week schedule or 6 rounds (2 rounds WL + 4 SPL) on a 5x a week schedule
It seems like that everyone voted Q1 also voted Q2, however Q3 has 100 more votes than the other 2. Q3 answer 1 has a clear majority. I guess both SC2 and BW fans in TL doesn't want Kespa to go SC2.
On October 15 2011 23:32 forumtext wrote: Very interesting result here on TL.
It seems like that everyone voted Q1 also voted Q2, however Q3 has 100 more votes than the other 2. Q3 answer 1 has a clear majority. I guess both SC2 and BW fans in TL doesn't want Kespa to go SC2.
if they plan on keeping SC2 as a secondary league like special forces or Tekken Crash,then I'm cool with it.
also no that poll is voted by mostly BW fans since SC2 fans barely come to the BW forums.
On October 15 2011 23:32 forumtext wrote: Very interesting result here on TL.
It seems like that everyone voted Q1 also voted Q2, however Q3 has 100 more votes than the other 2. Q3 answer 1 has a clear majority. I guess both SC2 and BW fans in TL doesn't want Kespa to go SC2.
if they plan on keeping SC2 as a secondary league like special forces or Tekken Crash,then I'm cool with it.
also no that poll is voted by mostly BW fans since SC2 fans barely come to the BW forums.
I expect those 100 ppl are SC2 and ex-BW fans. It's the only reason I can think of that why they would scroll down to vote Q3 while completely ignoring Q1 and Q2 (it's not important to them). I cannot understand why SC2 ppl hates Kespa, even the mods in here came out time and time again trying to explain to them that Kespa is not as EVIL as they think. But the message is not getting across.
On October 15 2011 23:32 forumtext wrote: Very interesting result here on TL.
It seems like that everyone voted Q1 also voted Q2, however Q3 has 100 more votes than the other 2. Q3 answer 1 has a clear majority. I guess both SC2 and BW fans in TL doesn't want Kespa to go SC2.
if they plan on keeping SC2 as a secondary league like special forces or Tekken Crash,then I'm cool with it.
also no that poll is voted by mostly BW fans since SC2 fans barely come to the BW forums.
I expect those 100 ppl are SC2 and ex-BW fans. It's the only reason I can think of that why they would scroll down to vote Q3 while completely ignoring Q1 and Q2 (it's not important to them). I cannot understand why SC2 ppl hates Kespa, even the mods in here came out time and time again trying to explain to them that Kespa is not as EVIL as they think. But the message is not getting across.
No one even mentioned what you're talking about in this topic so I dunno why you feel the need to bring it up. (It's cool to hate on sc2 fans I guess?) The first two questions might not matter to some who neither care nor know which format is better but the last one is just easier to decide.
I'm surprised there wasn't a Bo7 for 3-4 days option. Bo5 for 5 days i don't like but Bo7 for 5 days is too much. I think Bo7 for 3-4 days strikes a good balance between the two options. Having teams only have 1 match a week but a Bo7 would be the best especially since there's only one broadcaster now unless someone else steps in.
On October 15 2011 23:32 forumtext wrote: Very interesting result here on TL.
It seems like that everyone voted Q1 also voted Q2, however Q3 has 100 more votes than the other 2. Q3 answer 1 has a clear majority. I guess both SC2 and BW fans in TL doesn't want Kespa to go SC2.
if they plan on keeping SC2 as a secondary league like special forces or Tekken Crash,then I'm cool with it.
also no that poll is voted by mostly BW fans since SC2 fans barely come to the BW forums.
I expect those 100 ppl are SC2 and ex-BW fans. It's the only reason I can think of that why they would scroll down to vote Q3 while completely ignoring Q1 and Q2 (it's not important to them). I cannot understand why SC2 ppl hates Kespa, even the mods in here came out time and time again trying to explain to them that Kespa is not as EVIL as they think. But the message is not getting across.
No one even mentioned what you're talking about in this topic so I dunno why you feel the need to bring it up. (It's cool to hate on sc2 fans I guess?) The first two questions might not matter to some who neither care nor know which format is better but the last one is just easier to decide.
You are right, I should not have bring that up. I am sorry. I was just curious about the pattern in the votes and was trying to work out why. It was probably a bad theory on my part.
EPT
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