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Daaman has spoken well about this topic in the past. For example, these analysis programs typically have some kind of delay which distorts your perception of exactly when something happens. These programs are not perfect. Do not be too quick to judge.
Also, consider the following scenario: You are playing against a terran, whether u know the opponent's race or not at the outset. You send ur worker to scout and while watching it u hear the sound of an SCV building something. The sound indicates terran (and his location on the map) and so u hide ur scout in the base and do an anti-terran build. After the game, ur opponent watches the replay and says "Your scout never had vision and yet u knew I was terran and where I spawned on the map. Hacker!"
Sometimes intuition is mistaken for hack. For example, there was an incident before Rekrul went to Korea when he was accused of hack because (on LT I think?) he moved a bunch of goons to his natural exp just as the opponent (I forget who) was trying to drop near his ledge. Opponent says hack, Rekrul says "intuition". The controversy went away because there was no real proof and, well, it was Rekrul.
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On May 10 2005 19:57 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2005 19:39 Chill wrote:
Lastgosu, this is a generalization about human reactions, but here goes:
When people are accused of something that they are innocent of, they claim their case rationally. If people generally don't believe them they explain the differences in their views and leave it at that.
When people are accused of something that they are guilty of, they start freaking out. First off, you'll find their arguments just quite frankly don't make any sence whatsoever. They cite facts that really have nothing to do with the situation at all, or they try to attack the credibility of other people instead of defending their own credibility. You can easily see this in criminal / civil defendants or people involved with the police. If you're freaking out it's because you don't have a rational explanation to defend yourself.
Which of the two categories do you believe you fit into?
You clicked on someone's Nexus while it was under the fog of war. I have yet to hear a rational explanation about how you managed to accomplish this. You've typed probably 5 pages of non-sensical gibberish.
WHAT DID YOU DO THAT ALLOWED YOU TO SELECT A NEXUS UNDER THE FOG OF WAR?
What's more likely, computer programming error or human error? I would tend to believe that you made an error and selected a nexus that you shouldn't have, rather than something in the Starcraft code caused the replayed to say you selected a building while you didn't.
Anyways, I don't know why I typed this all out. You're not going to read this properly and are not going to have a sensical reply. I guess this just makes me happy to see you get what you deserve and you're squirming around like the hacker you are.
GL AT USA FINALS~!~!~ Well yeah, that, or wrongly accused people become very frustrated and act in a irrational manner.
I'm not sure about that. I got banned from my favorite CS server for supposedly hacking which I didn't. I acted very rationally because it just seemed the best way to convey my innocence. I had to go to their forum and make a formal complant and blah blah blah. This happened on another server where the server took screenshots of me and some admin requested I send them to him. I acted very rationally there too and sent them in promptly never bad mouthing them at all. So I would say people usually don't become irrational when they are innocent.
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In CS, your forgetting if you head shot the owner of the server or one of his close friends, you are a hacker no matter what. Just my expierence.
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HowitZer:
The point that -_- was trying to make was that not everyone reacts in the same way. It takes a very level headed person to keep calm and explain oneself after such an accusation.
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On May 10 2005 21:44 Amnesty wrote:
In CS, your forgetting if you head shot the owner of the server or one of his close friends, you are a hacker no matter what. Just my expierence.
my friend (milk in cs) has that problem with one server
no matter what he shows the owner, he says "I don't care about your proof, you're a fucking hacker", but he is usually unbanned a week later anyways
he's been banned and unbanned there three or four times
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no, rekruls probes moved to a mineral patch he could not see.
he hacks thanks.
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1. Stop with the "bwchart gives me suspicous actions i dont hack" posts.
That shit has absolutely no relevance to this topic at all.
BWAC/Bwchart catching suspicious actions and BWAC/Bwchart catching definite cases of hack ARE 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.
2. Stop with the "I/he was accused of hacking but I/he was not hacking" shit.
Again, this has absolutely no relevance to this topic at all.
Someone being accused of hacking when he wasn't really hacking (due to intuition, etc.) has absolutely NO relevance to this topic, which is asking if anyone has been caught hacking by supposed evidence (BWAC/BWChart) when he was not hacking.
With that said, it is impossible as far as I know for anyone to not hack and is still caught by BWAC/BWchart as a hacker.
I've said this in another topic, but the simplest non-technical way to test this is to download the thousands of replays from replay packs of top Korean pros--those who you know do not hack. You will never ever find 1 single instance of BWAC/BWchart catching a false case of hack (clicking on something at an instance when it is impossible without hack).
Next, test it with 2 computers or a friend. Try to do everything you can think of to try to get BWAC/BWChart to catch a false case of hack. You will not succeed. You can get BWAC/BWchart to catch as many suspicious actions as you wish, but you will never get BWAC/BWChart to catch you clicking on something at an instance when it is impossible to click on (such as the case found in lastgosu's game) when you are not hacking.
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is awesome32281 Posts
On May 10 2005 22:33 tfeign wrote:
1. Stop with the "bwchart gives me suspicous actions i dont hack" posts.
That shit has absolutely no relevance to this topic at all.
BWAC/Bwchart catching suspicious actions and BWAC/Bwchart catching definite cases of hack ARE 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.
2. Stop with the "I/he was accused of hacking but I/he was not hacking" shit.
Again, this has absolutely no relevance to this topic at all.
Someone being accused of hacking when he wasn't really hacking (due to intuition, etc.) has absolutely NO relevance to this topic, which is asking if anyone has been caught hacking by supposed evidence (BWAC/BWChart) when he was not hacking.
With that said, it is impossible as far as I know for anyone to not hack and is still caught by BWAC/BWchart as a hacker.
I've said this in another topic, but the simplest non-technical way to test this is to download the thousands of replays from replay packs of top Korean pros--those who you know do not hack. You will never ever find 1 single instance of BWAC/BWchart catching a false case of hack (clicking on something at an instance when it is impossible without hack).
Next, test it with 2 computers or a friend. Try to do everything you can think of to try to get BWAC/BWChart to catch a false case of hack. You will not succeed. You can get BWAC/BWchart to catch as many suspicious actions as you wish, but you will never get BWAC/BWChart to catch you clicking on something at an instance when it is impossible to click on (such as the case found in lastgosu's game) when you are not hacking.
Clap Clap : ]
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
On May 10 2005 19:38 NewbSaibot wrote:
Nobody cares if you hacked vs some random guy in an unimportant game, but now they think you hacked in all the major matches too..
Interesting how you justify yourself. I see why battle.net is the way it is today. It is exactly your way of thinking that ruins many games at battle.net.
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I am sure there have been players wrongfully banned for hacking when they did not. You can generally tell by a persons attitude if they have hacked or not at the time they have been accused.
I would rather see x10 hackers get away with hacking, rather then see an innocent gamer who never hacked get accused wrongfully.
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i dont think lastgosu is a hacker
in my case 2 years ago, i wanted to fair play on WGT, i used to BWS as pdk001 and oG)pdk_kr, one day BWS calls me a hacker(i didnt know untill everyone told me that)
why i didnt change as new ID and turn BWS on everytimes when i play a game if im a hacker? it wasnt rule on wgt to use BWS
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I've had a weird problem with BWScanner too, I was just idling in channel when it shouts out that I'm hacking.. O_o weird..
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BWAC/BWchart is pretty much concrete proof of hacking if it does find such a case.
BWScanner, on the other hand, is not as accurate, at least back then before it was refined. There were many instances of BWScanner reporting hack, but most of these cases were all caused by things such as people using APM Live, BWAC itself, even nocd launchers. Other causes exist which I won't go into. Accordingly, these instances of false hack detection by BWscanner were reported to TraveltoAuir who have used them to fine-tune the newer versions. Generally, discovery of hack when using BWScanner is not concrete proof of hack unless TraveltoAuir confirms it.
Discover of hack with BWAC/BWChart, however, is concrete proof by itself.
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Freezer_au it never happened on WGT. And lastgosu was hacking in this game, there is no doubt.This action is impossible to do without maphack (w/o vision of nexus), try it by yourself. Starcraft is saving true actions to replay. Bwchart only open/uznip them. The only mistake was done by Lois when he gave us proof by targeting nexus 
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just because it SAYS he did doesnt mean he did..i could say that i saw you steal my car (i dont actually have a car) and take a picture but it doesnt prove it was you... you people are just getting paranoid, you cant stop hacking..just like bush cant have world peace. if all your doing while trying to stop hacking is getting innocent gamers banned the whats the point, how would you like it if you got banned for hacking when you never did?
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haha i bet selector told u this , day 
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On May 11 2005 01:58 Napoleon wrote:Freezer_au it never happened on WGT. And lastgosu was hacking in this game, there is no doubt.This action is impossible to do without maphack (w/o vision of nexus), try it by yourself. Starcraft is saving true actions to replay. Bwchart only open/uznip them. The only mistake was done by Lois when he gave us proof by targeting nexus
How can you say a player that has been banned for hack never been banned unfairly on WGT ? As accurate as admins are I am sure there have been occaisons where they have banned people that have not hacked.
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EPT
