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With the wrap-up of the regular season, it's time to look back on this year of Proleague, and draw conclusions both about what went right (and wrong) and what we can expect for next year. This will be a three or four part series, and I'm starting today with the most basic data I've been working with in my initial investigation. Taking the year as a whole, who came off well? Who came off badly? What were expected results, and which were unexpected?
We'll start with everybody's favorite underdogs:
Regular Season Finish: 10th (17-37); WL 10th (2-16)
Team Ace:  ggaemo,  firebathero
In what was unquestionably ACE's finest campaign yet, the military men hit double digits emphatically and came up a mere five wins short of not finishing last. Partly, this is due to ACE becoming a destination not just for washed-up first generation stars but underperforming or unneeded players with A-team potential. That gives the Air Force team something to work with - but it doesn't explain quite such a dramatic improvement. People, somebody on the ACE coaching staff know what they're doing. RuBy last year might have been an anomaly, but ggaemo - who lost out as Jaedong's apprentice to Killer - has become Military-Dong.  M18M is a competent player now. Iris looked resurgent at times, PianO almost looks like the Terran hope he was supposed to be for Woongjin - for the first time ever he finished a season with a winning record. And the greatest miracle of all? - firebathero has learned to TvP. Wait, what? Somebody at ACE is doing something very right. If only the exigencies of the service didn't all but guarantee that this is as good as it gets.
Regular Season Finish: 9th (22-32); WL 8th (7-11)
Team Ace: Sea
Coach Ha might be gone, leaving them under MuMyung's first-year leadership, but MBCGame HERO was doing just fine through two rounds. Light didn't quite show up as expected in Winners League, but they were surviving. At the end of Winners League, it looked a little ugly. But instead of counting on regular format to revive a team that had been much more solid than expected, somebody decided to sell off the Invisible Terran. Whoops. Well, as a Woongjin fan I can't complain, but seriously what?
The bigger story of the year, though, was the sudden and almost inexplicable emergence of Jaehoon as a genuine threat. Tyson continuing to develop shouldn't have surprised many people, but everybody's favorite practice partner went from laughingstock to valuable performer with an even 30 wins. What to expect next year? I have absolutely no idea. Sea-Jaehoon-Tyson is a solid core - if vulnerable to the Zergs swarming Proleague - but with Light gone HyuN has to get back to form for MBC to be a legitimate threat. That, or they need one of their B-team Terrans to finally get good (my money's on koala RuBy?).
Regular Season Finish: 8th (23-31); WL 9th (7-11)
Team Ace: BaBy
There's never something to put your finger on when trying to explain why WeMade didn't quite succeed. They have a legitimate ace with what ought to be excellent backup. They're Terran-heavy with a strong Zerg line too. But when it comes down to it, they don't quite seem to have that killer instinct. A few more wins from Shine and RorO and they'd be in the playoffs and nobody would really want to play them... but those wins didn't happen.
On the other hand, the future looks brighter: if the end of the season is any indication, WeMade might finally have found a Protoss who can win. I'm talking about Wooki, the rookie sensation. He's yet to put in a full season of work so it might be premature, but if Jaehoon can make it big then anybody can. Right?
Regular Season Finish: 7th (24-30); WL 2nd (12-6)
Playoffs: WL 3rd Place (L 3-4 vs SKT)
Team Ace: Jaedong
There's good news, and there's bad news. The bad news: HiyA was terrible for the entire year that wasn't Winners League. OZ still doesn't really have a good Protoss. Jaedong took 22 losses, which an ace-dependent team can't have happen when the backup evaporates.
The good news: after a year of despair, Killer has matured into a solid #2 and Starleague player. Anytime is actually still pretty good. Some of those young Protoss might amount to something after all - PerfectMan got 15 wins (!) and the consensus seems to be that he's not the most promising. HiyA has to be better again next year, right?
OZ just hopes that the double-WL is kept next year, because the entire team played much much better in the high-tension format.
Finally: we'll miss you, BackHo. Best of luck with seminary.
Regular Season Finish: 6th (25-29); WL 7th (8-10)
Playoffs: 5th (L 1-2 (1-4, 4-0, 2-4) vs KT)
Team Ace: Bogus?
Fluke, or changing of the guard? Kal and Calm still got the most games, but Bogus came out of actual nowhere - unlike Jaehoon, he had no reputation at all - to be easily STX's best player this year, while the previous ace tag-team finished both with losing records. Let's be clear, they were both only -1, but still. Calm, like fantasy, can be streaky and unreliable, so I expect him to be back next year, but with Shuttle looking better and better - top 3 PvP and trading games with Flash - has Kal gone into the twilight finally, or what? And will by.hero ever be legitimately good?
Watching STX play is aggravating. They ought to be two-deep, with decent to good players, across the racial board - Kal/Shuttle, Calm/by.hero (not to mention Modesty and hyvaa), Bogus/Classic - but it just keeps not translating into actual results. No matter how deep you are on paper - and no matter what your potential (4-0 vs KT anyone?) you're just not going to win games when only two players can keep it together the whole year enough to finish positive. So STX: for the love of ESPORTS get your act together and win some games next year.
Regular Season Finish: 5th (26-28); WL 5th (9-9)
Playoffs: 6th (L 1-2 (4-2, 2-4, 3-4) vs WJN)
Ace: Stork
Just when the '09-'10 campaign had people convinced the Big Three were played out, and firebathero went to ACE, and Jangbi looked in an eternal slump... this happened. KHAN pulled four good rookies out of a hat: Brave and TurN started the year a combined 10-0 for the boys in blue; as the year went on Grape and Reality took over. Reality was maybe a little over-played but looked the most promising... but Grape made an MSL quarter-final.
Then in May JangBi suddenly remembered how to play. Stork, despite all cell phone games could do, managed another 40-win season. ByuL (who?) went 4-0, making him one of two undefeated players in Proleague this season (the other is Woongjin's BisAng, who played one game and doesn't count). A little too much Zerg for the Protoss-heavy KHAN team knocked them out of the playoffs in a tight 3-match battle, but next year the sky's the limit - and if great gets back to MSL finalist form, the league will really have to watch out.
Regular Season Finish: 4th (28-26); WL 6th (9-9)
Playoffs: 4th (W 2-1 (2-4, 4-2, 4-3) vs KHAN; L 1-2 (4-3, 2-4, 2-4) vs KT)
Ace: ZerO
And now we get to the team with winning records. Woongjin's Terrible Two-o of Zergs, ZerO and Neo.G_Soulkey, led the Stars to their first playoff appearance in years after last year's collapse. Having an actual Terran line helps: Really may not be brilliant but actually wins almost half his games, apparently no matter how much he plays. But the master-stroke was adding Light from MBC. I'm still not a fan of the Crazy-Hydra deal, and think the team would be much better with a third good Zerg, but I'll take what I can get, and adding a Terran ace has to be a great move for next year no matter how the playoffs turn out this season. Now if only free gets back to form, by which I mean Starleague threat, not washed-up mediocrity. I'm sorry, free: I'm mean to the ones I love (but it's true). 
Regular Season Finish: 3rd (32-22); WL 1st (16-2)
Playoffs: ??? (W 2-1 (3-4, 4-2, 4-2) vs WJN, W 2-0 (4-2, 4-2) vs CJ); WL 2nd (L 1-4 vs SKT)
Ace: Flash
KT Rolster has the best damn coach in the business. I know he has Flash on his bench whenever necessary, but KT has no depth whatsoever.* Sure, double WL helped the team out a lot (and Stats really stepped up to the plate there), but to make 32 wins out of basically Flash is a phenomenal job. Touted Zerg prospect Action has gotten better, but is still mediocre (which is at least better than KT's had since Lux removed himself). Crazy-Hydra will almost certainly help the cause - he briefly had Woongjin's best Zerg record, and KT imported his race coach too - but that side hasn't shown up for sure yet in the KT house, where he's still playing second fiddle to Action.
On a sobering note, KT's not had good luck with players this year. Flash's wrist will certainly sideline him at some indefinite point. Violet has leukemia. fOrGG retired. YellOw has retired (not that he added much to the KT bench, unfortunately). Best of luck to them all.
Next year? The fact that they'll almost certainly dominate that Winners League season (again) gives them a good shot regardless, but, if Action continues to improve, Crazy-Hydra acclimates, Flash gets healthy, and Stats plays well, KT shouldn't have to depend on Winners League to take a top playoff spot.
* In one sense not exactly true: most of KT's bench players are mediocre, not bad, unlike, say, OZ. But they're still not good, either.
Regular Season Finish: 2nd (34-20); WL 4th (10-8)
Playoffs: 3rd (L 0-2 (2-4, 2-4) vs KT; WL 4th (L 1-4 vs SKT)
Ace: Hydra
CJ Entus is hax. This is actually partly an accurate description of events, as hite was merged with CJ before the season to create the super-team. But apart from Horang2 ruining the image of CJ (–_–) -> (^_^), the mojo's all from the Entus side. The result: another Zerg rolls off the CJ production line (Hydra), and the Protoss powers of Movie and Horang2 combine to produce two near-ace caliber players. Leta and Snow inexplicably get left in the dust (which means they both won over 20 games, they just lost a little more than the others). The only unexpected weak point was sKyHigh, who may have lost his spot to BByong for good... or may just be undergoing one of CJ's demotion specials . Time will tell, but CJ doesn't have to worry. SKT may have the record to be #1 (by a couple games), but CJ Entus feels like the favorite for Shanghai.
Next year: EffOrt returns. Any questions?
Regular Season Finish: 1st (39-15); WL 3rd (10-8)
Playoffs: Grand Final Seed; WL 1st (W 4-1 vs CJ; W 4-3 vs OZ; W 4-1 vs KT)
Ace: Bisu
Behind a record-shattering campaign by Bisu, SKT cruised to an easy 1st place finish despite a late challenge from CJ. 63 wins by my count in the regular season. 63. And then - even is more insane - that 81% win rate.
In other news: Fantasy continued to be his streaky self (though he did finally win that OSL); BeSt won a bunch of games; By.Sun showed up as a Rookie of the Year candidate. Most surprisingly, n.Die_soO and s2 between them have given SKT an actual factual Zerg line, even if the two of them can't seem to manage to both play well at the same time. Everything indicates that the Masters of the Universe (that is T1, right?) will continue to roll right along with no worries, even if someone manages to knock them off their Grand Finals-seeded perch this year. (Frankly, I think CJ's the only team that stands a chance. Or Woongjin, but that's my inner fanboy talking, not logic.)
Next Time in Part Two:
I break down each team's strengths and weaknesses in the different formats and throughout the year.
P.S.: I was totally going to wait to release this till the playoffs ended, but I accidentally started arguing about team depth and just had to show my work. Sorry! I will update it as the results come in, not that there's much else to say in this overview piece.
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On July 18 2011 13:44 VGhost wrote:Regular Season Finish: 9th (22-32); WL 8th (7-11) Team Ace: SeaCoach Ha might be gone, leaving them under Pusan's first-year leadership, but MBCGame HERO was doing just fine through two rounds. Light didn't quite show up as expected in Winners League, but they were surviving. At the end of Winners League, it looked a little ugly. But instead of counting on regular format to revive a team that had been much more solid than expected, somebody decided to sell off the Invisible Terran. Whoops. Well, as a Woongjin fan I can't complain, but seriously what? The bigger story of the year, though, was the sudden and almost inexplicable emergence of Jaehoon as a genuine threat. Tyson continuing to develop shouldn't have surprised many people, but everybody's favorite practice partner went from laughingstock to valuable performer with an even 30 wins. What to expect next year? I have absolutely no idea. Sea-Jaehoon-Tyson is a solid core - if vulnerable to the Zergs swarming Proleague - but with Light gone HyuN has to get back to form for MBC to be a legitimate threat. That, or they need one of their B-team Terrans to finally get good (my money's on koala).
Nice writeup  A couple errors though, Pusan doesn't lead MBC, Mumyung does. And Koala left the team last year during the off-season. He's currently in the army.
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Thanks for this write up.
I remember early in the season someone was making these graphs after each round, it's quite interesting to see each player's performance condensed like this.
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On July 18 2011 13:57 Ryo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 13:44 VGhost wrote:Regular Season Finish: 9th (22-32); WL 8th (7-11) Team Ace: SeaCoach Ha might be gone, leaving them under Pusan's first-year leadership, but MBCGame HERO was doing just fine through two rounds. Light didn't quite show up as expected in Winners League, but they were surviving. At the end of Winners League, it looked a little ugly. But instead of counting on regular format to revive a team that had been much more solid than expected, somebody decided to sell off the Invisible Terran. Whoops. Well, as a Woongjin fan I can't complain, but seriously what? The bigger story of the year, though, was the sudden and almost inexplicable emergence of Jaehoon as a genuine threat. Tyson continuing to develop shouldn't have surprised many people, but everybody's favorite practice partner went from laughingstock to valuable performer with an even 30 wins. What to expect next year? I have absolutely no idea. Sea-Jaehoon-Tyson is a solid core - if vulnerable to the Zergs swarming Proleague - but with Light gone HyuN has to get back to form for MBC to be a legitimate threat. That, or they need one of their B-team Terrans to finally get good (my money's on koala). Nice writeup A couple errors though, Pusan doesn't lead MBC, Mumyung does. And Koala left the team last year during the off-season. He's currently in the army.
Rubyyyyyyyyyy
I really hope he manages to fill the hole left in my heart by the sale of Light. Which would require him improving a lot from his recent time in ace...
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10387 Posts
damn I love reading articles/writeups on BW by the community  My only hope is that next year ACE can make it to the playoffs, SOMEHOW...
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On July 18 2011 14:03 ArvickHero wrote:damn I love reading articles/writeups on BW by the community My only hope is that next year ACE can make it to the playoffs, SOMEHOW...
Think we all have a soft spot for Ace, but I don't see that happening unless TBLS all decide to join to do their military service.
Good write-up by the way. There were quite a few players that I didn't realize were performing so well.
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On July 18 2011 14:02 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 13:57 Ryo wrote:On July 18 2011 13:44 VGhost wrote:Regular Season Finish: 9th (22-32); WL 8th (7-11) Team Ace: SeaCoach Ha might be gone, leaving them under Pusan's first-year leadership, but MBCGame HERO was doing just fine through two rounds. Light didn't quite show up as expected in Winners League, but they were surviving. At the end of Winners League, it looked a little ugly. But instead of counting on regular format to revive a team that had been much more solid than expected, somebody decided to sell off the Invisible Terran. Whoops. Well, as a Woongjin fan I can't complain, but seriously what? The bigger story of the year, though, was the sudden and almost inexplicable emergence of Jaehoon as a genuine threat. Tyson continuing to develop shouldn't have surprised many people, but everybody's favorite practice partner went from laughingstock to valuable performer with an even 30 wins. What to expect next year? I have absolutely no idea. Sea-Jaehoon-Tyson is a solid core - if vulnerable to the Zergs swarming Proleague - but with Light gone HyuN has to get back to form for MBC to be a legitimate threat. That, or they need one of their B-team Terrans to finally get good (my money's on koala). Nice writeup A couple errors though, Pusan doesn't lead MBC, Mumyung does. And Koala left the team last year during the off-season. He's currently in the army. Rubyyyyyyyyyy I really hope he manages to fill the hole left in my heart by the sale of Light. Which would require him improving a lot from his recent time in ace...
Sea said he hopes Ruby can get 30 wins next season. I think that's reaaally optimistic. I'll be very happy if he gets 20 wins or more.
Ruby in this season's MBC kit:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/y0EQk.jpg)
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On July 18 2011 13:44 VGhost wrote:Regular Season Finish: 3rd (32-22); WL 1st (16-2) Playoffs: ??? (now 1-1 (3-4, 4-2) vs WJN); WL 2nd (L 1-4 vs SKT) Ace: FlashKT Rolster has the best damn coach in the business. I know he has Flash on his bench whenever necessary, but KT has no depth whatsoever.* Sure, double WL helped the team out a lot (and Stats really stepped up to the plate there), but to make 32 wins out of basically Flash is a phenomenal job. Touted Zerg prospect Action has gotten better, but is still mediocre (which is at least better than KT's had since Lux removed himself). Crazy-Hydra will almost certainly help the cause - he briefly had Woongjin's best Zerg record, and KT imported his race coach too - but that side hasn't shown up for sure yet in the KT house, where he's still playing second fiddle to Action. On a sobering note, KT's not had good luck with players this year. Flash's wrist will certainly sideline him at some indefinite point. Violet has leukemia. fOrGG retired. YellOw has retired (not that he added much to the KT bench, unfortunately). Best of luck to them all. Next year? The fact that they'll almost certainly dominate that Winners League season (again) gives them a good shot regardless, but, if Action continues to improve, Crazy-Hydra acclimates, Flash gets healthy, and Stats plays well, KT shouldn't have to depend on Winners League to take a top playoff spot. * In one sense not exactly true: most of KT's bench players are mediocre, not bad, unlike, say, OZ. But they're still not good, either.
You seem to have forgotten something.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Thanks for the writeup and of course + Show Spoiler +Holy hell Bisu! Why you so good?
On another note, with the super team that is now again CJ Entus, can anybody imagine what could happen if another two teams merged (Woongjin + Hwaseung = for the swarm)?
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Baby is a legitimate ace? Are you kidding?
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really cool info
i looked at flash's bar and was like "holy shit"
then i looked at bisu's and was like "holy shit" again
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On July 18 2011 14:12 Percutio wrote:Thanks for the writeup and of course + Show Spoiler +Holy hell Bisu! Why you so good? On another note, with the super team that is now again CJ Entus, can anybody imagine what could happen if another two teams merged (Woongjin + Hwaseung = for the swarm)?
Considering that all that is left of hite is the teams best terran (who happened to be the teams best player), and the teams best protoss, You could make the argument that stars and estro merged. Granted really was never as good as leta, and flying went from the best toss on the team to possibly 4th (behind grape, dear, and wooki), but they are comparable.
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On July 18 2011 14:12 Percutio wrote:Thanks for the writeup and of course + Show Spoiler +Holy hell Bisu! Why you so good? On another note, with the super team that is now again CJ Entus, can anybody imagine what could happen if another two teams merged (Woongjin + Hwaseung = for the swarm)?
Too much ZerO and not enough Killer. Does not want. Oz just needs someone to replace the enormous void in their soul left by the departure of BackHo. (and some rare candies for HiyA)
Thanks for the writeup, sweet stats!
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Looking at the win differentials you wouldn't think SKT is a deep team at all xD In fact, it looks almost as imbalanced as JaedongOz (from a distance.)
thanks for the writeup! very enjoyable read.
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nice write-up! very interesting.
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The lack of Hoejja is making me disappoint, better see him in later parts
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Beesuit #1
I even forgive for OSL performance.
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The difference between the CJ/SKT graphs and the rest is unreal. Anyone could tell you there was a gap between 2nd and 3rd, but graphically it looks even bigger.
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Great write up - this is getting me really excited for next season.
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I love me some graphs. Makes it really easy to see whats going on with each team, thanks.
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Awesome writeup, can't wait for the other parts!
PS to the people above mentioning Hoejja: One day, Hoejja will spearhead the rise of left-handed players everywhere... okay maybe not
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Om nom nom graphs! Lookin' good
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Ahh, really nice thread and graphs! Thanks for the work. <3
CJ really quite scary! (SKT will still prevail! :D)
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Nice job Vghost i look forward to future parts.
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Estonia4504 Posts
This year sucked, by and large. I'm afraid next year won't be better.
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other than ignoring hoejja and barracks for the KT analysis (and not doing a next-year for SKT1), I think it was very well thought out and thorough write up which pretty much covered what was needed to be said, supported by some neat graphs
and holy hell bisu's graph is high
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On July 18 2011 16:15 mustaju wrote:This year sucked, by and large. I'm afraid next year won't be better.
i actually quite enjoyed this year, BO7 format certainly helped. WL killed off ace unfortunately =[
and when you say sucked, is it mainly due to the protoss bonwja?
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Estonia4504 Posts
On July 18 2011 16:37 Doraemon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 16:15 mustaju wrote:This year sucked, by and large. I'm afraid next year won't be better. i actually quite enjoyed this year, BO7 format certainly helped. WL killed off ace unfortunately =[ and when you say sucked, is it mainly due to the protoss bonwja?
Basically almost everything past R2 was godawful, with hints of what was to come in rounds 1&2. Suits me right hoping for an entire year for a resurgence of Calm, with slight ups and then catastrophic downs.
It wasn't as bad as being a JangBi fan must have been, but having your favorite team collapse (again) after a brief period of stability, it becoming clearer and clearer that your favorite 2 players (Calm and Kal) will likely never come fully out of their slump, and your least favorite team and player finishing multiple rounds undefeated was pretty horrendous.
And now Proleague will likely morph into even more of a 2 team (or even one team) competition. Ugh. But I guess some fans WOULD like that. -.-
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10387 Posts
On July 18 2011 16:37 Doraemon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 16:15 mustaju wrote:This year sucked, by and large. I'm afraid next year won't be better. i actually quite enjoyed this year, BO7 format certainly helped. WL killed off ace unfortunately =[ and when you say sucked, is it mainly due to the protoss bonwja?
he believes SKT to be an "evil empire" (when they are actually the pioneer of eSports, a force of "good") and STX kinda sucked this year. Go figure.
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CJ is super scary. I just wish skyhigh would stop slumping and once effort gets back. Oh damn.
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wow great thread. it's so neat to be able to get some real facts and numbers behind my year-end thoughts on each team lol
cant wait for part 2 :D
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Fantastic work and analysis. I really like the format of the graphs you have chosen. Its really easy to read and provides great direct comparisons. You can realy see which teams have depth and which teams rely on the same few players. (all right I'm sure we all knew that already but its a great visualisation of it.)
I would argue the sentence about GGameo 'who lost out as Jaedong's apprentice to Killer'. GGameo is older than Jaedong and a lot older than Killer (like 5 years) he was never gonna be an apprentice to Jaedong with Killer there. All right Killer was less than impressive at first but he's pulling it together now.
Anyway great work really awesome graphs.
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On July 18 2011 16:50 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 16:37 Doraemon wrote:On July 18 2011 16:15 mustaju wrote:This year sucked, by and large. I'm afraid next year won't be better. i actually quite enjoyed this year, BO7 format certainly helped. WL killed off ace unfortunately =[ and when you say sucked, is it mainly due to the protoss bonwja? Basically almost everything past R2 was godawful, with hints of what was to come in rounds 1&2. Suits me right hoping for an entire year for a resurgence of Calm, with slight ups and then catastrophic downs. It wasn't as bad as being a JangBi fan must have been, but having your favorite team collapse (again) after a brief period of stability, it becoming clearer and clearer that your favorite 2 players (Calm and Kal) will likely never come fully out of their slump, and your least favorite team and player finishing multiple rounds undefeated was pretty horrendous. And now Proleague will likely morph into even more of a 2 team (or even one team) competition. Ugh. But I guess some fans WOULD like that. -.-
It's not T1's fault that other teams are mediocre ... sry :/
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Estonia4504 Posts
On July 18 2011 18:08 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 16:50 mustaju wrote:On July 18 2011 16:37 Doraemon wrote:On July 18 2011 16:15 mustaju wrote:This year sucked, by and large. I'm afraid next year won't be better. i actually quite enjoyed this year, BO7 format certainly helped. WL killed off ace unfortunately =[ and when you say sucked, is it mainly due to the protoss bonwja? Basically almost everything past R2 was godawful, with hints of what was to come in rounds 1&2. Suits me right hoping for an entire year for a resurgence of Calm, with slight ups and then catastrophic downs. It wasn't as bad as being a JangBi fan must have been, but having your favorite team collapse (again) after a brief period of stability, it becoming clearer and clearer that your favorite 2 players (Calm and Kal) will likely never come fully out of their slump, and your least favorite team and player finishing multiple rounds undefeated was pretty horrendous. And now Proleague will likely morph into even more of a 2 team (or even one team) competition. Ugh. But I guess some fans WOULD like that. -.- It's not T1's fault that other teams are mediocre ... sry :/
You are right about that. It's the other teams fault for not having the money or the strength to defeat T1. Though I'm honestly curious if the natural equilibrium will be reestablished soon - The players doing better are likely to demand a raise, and some of them might migrate. Hopefully MBC will net themselves Sun back.
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On July 18 2011 18:20 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 18:08 nayumi wrote:On July 18 2011 16:50 mustaju wrote:On July 18 2011 16:37 Doraemon wrote:On July 18 2011 16:15 mustaju wrote:This year sucked, by and large. I'm afraid next year won't be better. i actually quite enjoyed this year, BO7 format certainly helped. WL killed off ace unfortunately =[ and when you say sucked, is it mainly due to the protoss bonwja? Basically almost everything past R2 was godawful, with hints of what was to come in rounds 1&2. Suits me right hoping for an entire year for a resurgence of Calm, with slight ups and then catastrophic downs. It wasn't as bad as being a JangBi fan must have been, but having your favorite team collapse (again) after a brief period of stability, it becoming clearer and clearer that your favorite 2 players (Calm and Kal) will likely never come fully out of their slump, and your least favorite team and player finishing multiple rounds undefeated was pretty horrendous. And now Proleague will likely morph into even more of a 2 team (or even one team) competition. Ugh. But I guess some fans WOULD like that. -.- It's not T1's fault that other teams are mediocre ... sry :/ You are right about that. It's the other teams fault for not having the money or the strength to defeat T1. Though I'm honestly curious if the natural equilibrium will be reestablished soon - The players doing better are likely to demand a raise, and some of them might migrate. Hopefully MBC will net themselves Sun back.
SKT can keep Sun, don't want him back.
Btw, STX Cup Masters begins on 1st August. Final will be held on 27th August. Format has changed somewhat. + Show Spoiler +xxmos will eventually post a translation I guess. It's not on DES yet.
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great write up.
can't wait for next part :D
Ruby will play with MBC back. I'm so glad hear it. Glad and happy :D
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On July 18 2011 18:08 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 16:50 mustaju wrote:On July 18 2011 16:37 Doraemon wrote:On July 18 2011 16:15 mustaju wrote:This year sucked, by and large. I'm afraid next year won't be better. i actually quite enjoyed this year, BO7 format certainly helped. WL killed off ace unfortunately =[ and when you say sucked, is it mainly due to the protoss bonwja? Basically almost everything past R2 was godawful, with hints of what was to come in rounds 1&2. Suits me right hoping for an entire year for a resurgence of Calm, with slight ups and then catastrophic downs. It wasn't as bad as being a JangBi fan must have been, but having your favorite team collapse (again) after a brief period of stability, it becoming clearer and clearer that your favorite 2 players (Calm and Kal) will likely never come fully out of their slump, and your least favorite team and player finishing multiple rounds undefeated was pretty horrendous. And now Proleague will likely morph into even more of a 2 team (or even one team) competition. Ugh. But I guess some fans WOULD like that. -.- It's not T1's fault that other teams are mediocre ... sry :/
MBC would like to have a word with you.
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On July 18 2011 13:57 Ryo wrote:Nice writeup A couple errors though, Pusan doesn't lead MBC, Mumyung does. And Koala left the team last year during the off-season. He's currently in the army.
Fixed. I would have sworn Pusan at least started the year as the manager, and he is a coach now.
On July 18 2011 14:15 GolemMadness wrote:
Baby is a legitimate ace? Are you kidding?
No, I'm not. Obviously he's not Flash, Bisu, or Jaedong, and Stork and Hydra are a little ahead of the rest. But he's up there there with Bogus, Sea, and ZerO, even though he doesn't play quite as many games because there's not as great a difference between him and FOX's #2. He may be the worst ace in Proleague (he's tied with ZerO the worst ace +/- this season), but there's no way he's not legitimately an ace player at this point.
On July 18 2011 14:24 hacklebeast wrote:
Considering that all that is left of hite is the teams best terran (who happened to be the teams best player), and the teams best protoss, You could make the argument that stars and estro merged. Granted really was never as good as leta, and flying went from the best toss on the team to possibly 4th (behind grape, dear, and wooki), but they are comparable.
Wait, what? Grape = KHAN, Dear = OZ, Wooki = FOX. Flying went from best Protoss (after SangHo left) on eSTRO to 2nd or 3rd on Stars behind free and (maybe) GuemChi... this year at least Flying and GuemChi were both bad.
On July 18 2011 16:29 Iplaythings wrote:
other than ignoring hoejja and barracks for the KT analysis (and not doing a next-year for SKT1), I think it was very well thought out and thorough write up which pretty much covered what was needed to be said, supported by some neat graphs
What am I supposed to say about T1? I think I summed it up pretty much with "looks like they'll continue to roll". I'm really not worried about fantasy, he's streaky as they come but pretty clutch - and even if he dropped off the map T1 would probably still be heavy playoff favorites.
As far as HoeJJa/BarrackS: there's not that much to say. BarrackS probably should get more play because he seems decent and KT doesn't have other Terrans besides Flash. HoeJJa is a known quantity: a ZvP sniper. But neither even got to 10 wins this season.
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Ooohhhhhhhh graphs about esports, my getting my engineeringasms!
Nice write-up too, and that Bisu too good. Hopefully the Khan rookies will all shift more towards the + column and dominate the PL next year!
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fk yeah bogus. one of the few terrans i like who isn't light or really. still, had no idea kal had so many wins under his belt.
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On July 18 2011 18:08 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 16:50 mustaju wrote:On July 18 2011 16:37 Doraemon wrote:On July 18 2011 16:15 mustaju wrote:This year sucked, by and large. I'm afraid next year won't be better. i actually quite enjoyed this year, BO7 format certainly helped. WL killed off ace unfortunately =[ and when you say sucked, is it mainly due to the protoss bonwja? Basically almost everything past R2 was godawful, with hints of what was to come in rounds 1&2. Suits me right hoping for an entire year for a resurgence of Calm, with slight ups and then catastrophic downs. It wasn't as bad as being a JangBi fan must have been, but having your favorite team collapse (again) after a brief period of stability, it becoming clearer and clearer that your favorite 2 players (Calm and Kal) will likely never come fully out of their slump, and your least favorite team and player finishing multiple rounds undefeated was pretty horrendous. And now Proleague will likely morph into even more of a 2 team (or even one team) competition. Ugh. But I guess some fans WOULD like that. -.- It's not T1's fault that other teams are mediocre ... sry :/
Yes, it's T1's (and CJ's and to a lesser extent KT's) fault for stealing other teams' players. SKT wouldn't be so good and MBC so bad with Bisu still playing for MBC, now would they?
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Netherlands45349 Posts
MBC sadly is the best farm team, they keep losing players to teams who simply have more money.
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Canada2480 Posts
On July 18 2011 14:12 Percutio wrote:Thanks for the writeup and of course + Show Spoiler +Holy hell Bisu! Why you so good? On another note, with the super team that is now again CJ Entus, can anybody imagine what could happen if another two teams merged (Woongjin + Hwaseung = for the swarm)?
that would regroup all my favorite players on the same team but I'd rather not have proleague lose another team
On July 18 2011 21:49 Kipsate wrote:MBC sadly is the best farm team, they keep losing players to teams who simply have more money .
MBC would dominate proleague so hard had they kept their players
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On July 18 2011 14:15 GolemMadness wrote:
Baby is a legitimate ace? Are you kidding?
This. Baby can play some amazing games at times but he's far too inconsistent and unreliable to be considered a legitimate Ace. It's safe to say that WMF is at a disadvantage going into an Ace match.
Also, can someone explain to me the hype behind Wooki? What has he accomplished so far?
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I genuinely love your reviews, VGhost. Thank you for so much priceless stuff.
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Canada2480 Posts
On July 18 2011 21:53 DarkMatter_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 14:15 GolemMadness wrote:
Baby is a legitimate ace? Are you kidding? This. Baby can play some amazing games at times but he's far too inconsistent and unreliable to be considered a legitimate Ace. It's safe to say that WMF is at a disadvantage going into an Ace match. Also, can someone explain to me the hype behind Wooki? What has he accomplished so far?
8-6 record for a rookie and decent PvZs I think
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On July 18 2011 14:12 Percutio wrote:Thanks for the writeup and of course + Show Spoiler +Holy hell Bisu! Why you so good? On another note, with the super team that is now again CJ Entus, can anybody imagine what could happen if another two teams merged (Woongjin + Hwaseung = for the swarm)?
That would be boring because 5 out of the 7 games (4 games + ace match) are almost guaranteed to be played by zergs, and we're going to see a whole lot of ZvZ matches.
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1019 Posts
really cool writeup! thanks for making it..a nice way to see how things went
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The thing with SKT is they kinda have a corporate wage slave vibe. Like the players not being allowed to perpare for individual leagues, to have their own aspirations aside from Proleague domination. That kinda makes it less appealing than other teams
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On July 18 2011 21:24 VGhost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 13:57 Ryo wrote:Nice writeup A couple errors though, Pusan doesn't lead MBC, Mumyung does. And Koala left the team last year during the off-season. He's currently in the army. Fixed. I would have sworn Pusan at least started the year as the manager, and he is a coach now. Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 14:15 GolemMadness wrote:
Baby is a legitimate ace? Are you kidding? No, I'm not. Obviously he's not Flash, Bisu, or Jaedong, and Stork and Hydra are a little ahead of the rest. But he's up there there with Bogus, Sea, and ZerO, even though he doesn't play quite as many games because there's not as great a difference between him and FOX's #2. He may be the worst ace in Proleague (he's tied with ZerO the worst ace +/- this season), but there's no way he's not legitimately an ace player at this point. Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 14:24 hacklebeast wrote:
Considering that all that is left of hite is the teams best terran (who happened to be the teams best player), and the teams best protoss, You could make the argument that stars and estro merged. Granted really was never as good as leta, and flying went from the best toss on the team to possibly 4th (behind grape, dear, and wooki), but they are comparable. Wait, what? Grape = KHAN, Dear = OZ, Wooki = FOX. Flying went from best Protoss (after SangHo left) on eSTRO to 2nd or 3rd on Stars behind free and (maybe) GuemChi... this year at least Flying and GuemChi were both bad. Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 16:29 Iplaythings wrote:
other than ignoring hoejja and barracks for the KT analysis (and not doing a next-year for SKT1), I think it was very well thought out and thorough write up which pretty much covered what was needed to be said, supported by some neat graphs What am I supposed to say about T1? I think I summed it up pretty much with "looks like they'll continue to roll". I'm really not worried about fantasy, he's streaky as they come but pretty clutch - and even if he dropped off the map T1 would probably still be heavy playoff favorites. As far as HoeJJa/BarrackS: there's not that much to say. BarrackS probably should get more play because he seems decent and KT doesn't have other Terrans besides Flash. HoeJJa is a known quantity: a ZvP sniper. But neither even got to 10 wins this season.
Maybe, but Hoejja has won as many games for KT as flash has in the playoffs so far if I am not wrong, you mentioned jangbi's resurgence even though he got smashed by SK and zero in the playoffs.
I doubt Hoejja will continue his streak as it is now, but I doubt he will go back to his slump mode again.
and just admit you forgot barracks altogether lol
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interesting read, but the graphs should be even to they are a little less misleading
(example being ace. the lowest is -35, so the highest should be +35... not +25)
just so visually you can see it all better.
didnt quite realize how some teams were though, and seeing the player breakdown is cool. helpful for next years fantasy maybe?
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Didn't realize how good Bisu was. And dayummm so impressed with CJ! Next year will be even better!
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On July 18 2011 21:54 swanized wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 21:53 DarkMatter_ wrote:On July 18 2011 14:15 GolemMadness wrote:
Baby is a legitimate ace? Are you kidding? This. Baby can play some amazing games at times but he's far too inconsistent and unreliable to be considered a legitimate Ace. It's safe to say that WMF is at a disadvantage going into an Ace match. Also, can someone explain to me the hype behind Wooki? What has he accomplished so far? 8-6 record for a rookie and decent PvZs I think
Doing well as a newer player in the "hard" match up PvZ is generally seen as a big positive.
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Thanks for writeup. Forget KTFlash and JaedongOz, let's make way for SKTisu.
+ Show Spoiler +
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This was very very interesting. Thanks a lot!
Seeing the stats visualized like that is good for the understanding of what happens in pl. I do think that you exaggerate KT's lack of depth though. I think it is a deep team, but almost all the players have been underperforming from time to time. Since atleast two of them seemed capable of taking games very regularly at every point in time and Flash taking ace, they won very often imo. I don't think it was because of exceptional coaching.
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Awesome post! I was quite surprise to see T1's chart looks quite a lot like KT's.
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Really cool write-up! Great job!
But I've notice one issue: The y-axis have different range in different plots. This makes it hard to compare figures by just eyeballing. Rule number one is to have the same range.
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Nice writeup.
The one point I want to make is you talk about what each losing team needs to do in order to become a threat, but no matter how much any team improves PL is still zero-sum - something that's easy to forget with the tightly packed standings of this season. Every team could make the improvements you list and some of them will still necessarily miss the playoffs.
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On July 19 2011 00:38 Lebesgue wrote:
But I've notice one issue: The y-axis have different range in different plots. This makes it hard to compare figures by just eyeballing. Rule number one is to have the same range.
I considered that, but to give every team the 65 to -35 range would have "flattened" most teams comparisons: the main point of this write-up was to look at how teams' wins are distributed, more than to directly compare team to team. In a sense it's unfortunate, because then we get this:
On July 19 2011 00:23 Caos2 wrote:
Awesome post! I was quite surprise to see T1's chart looks quite a lot like KT's.
And it does (also like OZ's), but mainly because Bisu's got about an extra ten wins on Flash. Using a universal scale would have made that clearer, but made in-team comparisons for teams like Woongjin and WeMade less clear.
On July 19 2011 00:11 Elroi wrote:
I do think that you exaggerate KT's lack of depth though. I think it is a deep team, but almost all the players have been underperforming from time to time. Since atleast two of them seemed capable of taking games very regularly at every point in time and Flash taking ace, they won very often imo. I don't think it was because of exceptional coaching.
At some point, supposed "depth" underperforming becomes actual lack of depth. KT to my knowledge has never been considered a deep team: "KTFlash" is a joke for a reason. Last year was unique in that KT added Stats and Violet to help Flash, giving them 3-deep on a Bo5 schedule. They also had fOrGG, and although there wasn't an Action or Crazy-Hydra caliber Zerg they still had FireFist and 815, so the depth there was about the same. This year KT looked okay going into the season, with Action/Stats/Violet/fOrGG meaning they could expect to be plausibly 4 or 5 deep on a Bo7 schedule. But they lost fOrGG and Violet; the majority of Stats' wins came in WL; and Action still has jitters that keep him mediocre (see vs. free in playoffs). They're not in trouble, exactly, and the more I think about it CH is a key pickup, but the drop-off after Action is simply huge. KT's depth is probably average and Flash makes up for a lot; but still, consider the record. They went 16-2 in WL, meaning they went 16-20 in the other four rounds - that doesn't say "depth" to me.
On July 19 2011 00:39 Crunchums wrote:
The one point I want to make is you talk about what each losing team needs to do in order to become a threat, but no matter how much any team improves PL is still zero-sum - something that's easy to forget with the tightly packed standings of this season. Every team could make the improvements you list and some of them will still necessarily miss the playoffs.
Oh, of course. But that doesn't mean they can't improve. Whether they will or not is anybody's guess, and how much. If I had to guess, I'd say ACE will regress, MBC will about hold even, OZ will improve but maybe not enough, WeMade will get more out of Wooki but less out of at least one of Mind/RorO/Shine, - all the teams I see poised to make improvements are this year's playoff teams (Calm + Kal back in form, Light for a whole season at Stars, KHAN's rookies maturing, KT getting CH into the rotation, SKT adding Sun for real (although I'd be surprised if they stay two-deep on the Zerg end), CJ getting EffOrt back. But I'll be writing more on that subject later.
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fantasy needs to be clutch in the finals, or it's gonna get really interesting.
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On July 19 2011 02:13 VGhost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 00:39 Crunchums wrote:
The one point I want to make is you talk about what each losing team needs to do in order to become a threat, but no matter how much any team improves PL is still zero-sum - something that's easy to forget with the tightly packed standings of this season. Every team could make the improvements you list and some of them will still necessarily miss the playoffs. Oh, of course. But that doesn't mean they can't improve. Whether they will or not is anybody's guess, and how much. If I had to guess, I'd say ACE will regress, MBC will about hold even, OZ will improve but maybe not enough, WeMade will get more out of Wooki but less out of at least one of Mind/RorO/Shine, - all the teams I see poised to make improvements are this year's playoff teams (Calm + Kal back in form, Light for a whole season at Stars, KHAN's rookies maturing, KT getting CH into the rotation, SKT adding Sun for real (although I'd be surprised if they stay two-deep on the Zerg end), CJ getting EffOrt back. But I'll be writing more on that subject later.
I guess my point is that a team could easily change in absolute strength but change differently in terms of strength relative to the other teams. For example, I also expect that MBC will remain about the same in terms of the strength of their team, but if that happens I would expect them to drop in the standings.
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United States335 Posts
Really great recap and analysis of the year, thanks for this. I look forward to the next part in the series.
The formation of a new team would be exciting but unlikely to say the least. Really I just hope we don't lose any more teams this summer.
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On July 18 2011 13:44 VGhost wrote:
KT Rolster has the best damn coach in the business.
Just out of curiosity, what's the basis for that claim?
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i feel compelled to briefly state my thoughts here -
ACE - Unless they pick up a couple of stronger players they are going to do worse next season.
MBC - Light leaving was a huge blow that they will not recover from any time soon. Currently this team is not a playoff threat even when they are firing on all cylinders. I would be surprised if they are not one of the 3 worst teams next season.
FOX - The team with the highest variance. They could make the playoffs or be the second worse team next season and neither outcome would surprise me. Playoffs are as easy as Baby finding his mojo again and Wooki living up to the promise he has shown without Roro/Mind/Shine/Midas dropping off too much, and if they get there they have the depth and strength to put up a fight, but who knows whether any of those things will happen.
Oz - Jaedong is still Jaedong and Killer has developed into a reliable #2. The big questions here are what is going on with Hiya (my own guess is that his current performance is reflective of his actual skill but then why is he consistently so successful in WL??) and can they find a player outside of those 3 better than Perfectman. Without some serious improvement in their non-Jaedong non-Killer players this is a team constructed to scrape to make it to the ace match and then hope Jaedong can pull it out - that is not a recipe for success in the playoffs. My guess is they finish in a similar position next season.
STX - With the emergence of Bogus, STX has all the pieces to succeed. Bogus/Kal/Calm/Shuttle is a strong core and STX has always had the strongest roleplayers. The obvious question mark is whether Kal and Calm can stop performing so erratically - they're basically the Protoss and Zerg version of fantasy except their team can't keep chugging along when they trip up - but as strong as STX would be if that happens I would still question their ability to hang with SKT and CJ. Hang in their STX fans, next season STX will probably win a playoff match before their inevitable, disappointing collapse.
And to answer your question, no, by.hero will never be legitimately good.
KHAN - Things look promising for KHAN - they've got a slew of promising newer players (Brave, Turn, Reality, Grape...), Stork, and Jangbi is back with a vengeance. great isn't going to cut it so they'll need some of those newer players to realize their potential. If none of that potential gets realized they might struggle to make the playoffs, if some of it gets realized they should make the playoffs easily but be unable to compete with the top 2-3 teams, if a lot of it gets realized they are a contender for the title.
Stars - I completely agree that losing Crazy-Hydra hurt them a lot and that free looks washed up. Stars would benefit a lot from the emergence of a player outside of Zero/Soulkey/Light/Really as that depth would give them a huge advantage against every team outside of CJ, but if that doesn't happen they'll probably still be at least the third best team after CJ and SKT.
KT - No way they finished this high next season. I would be surprised if Stats is able to maintain that level of performance but even if he drops off he'll still be KT's #2, Action isn't getting any better, and they miss Violet really really badly. Having Crazy-Hydra for an entire season will help and it's possible (but in my view, unlikely) for one of their depth players to step it up but you are right that KT has no depth - Flash can go on winning 75% of his games but I think KT is going to struggle to reach ace matches next season.
CJ - CJ is hax indeed. Their roster drops off after their first 5 players but that's inevitable when your first 5 players are performing that well... but they're getting Effort back anyways. Eeesh.
SKT - I am guessing Bisu will drop off a little and everyone else will combine to win a few fewer games as the rest of the teams improve, but I would be quite surprised if they were not one of the top 3 teams next season.
wow uh so much for brief, heh
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On July 19 2011 03:20 Simplistik wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 13:44 VGhost wrote:
KT Rolster has the best damn coach in the business. Just out of curiosity, what's the basis for that claim?
KT Rolster has the best damn coach in the business. I know he has Flash on his bench whenever necessary, but KT has no depth whatsoever.* Sure, double WL helped the team out a lot (and Stats really stepped up to the plate there), but to make 32 wins out of basically Flash is a phenomenal job.
that, I'd imagine
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On July 18 2011 18:08 nayumi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 16:50 mustaju wrote:On July 18 2011 16:37 Doraemon wrote:On July 18 2011 16:15 mustaju wrote:This year sucked, by and large. I'm afraid next year won't be better. i actually quite enjoyed this year, BO7 format certainly helped. WL killed off ace unfortunately =[ and when you say sucked, is it mainly due to the protoss bonwja? Basically almost everything past R2 was godawful, with hints of what was to come in rounds 1&2. Suits me right hoping for an entire year for a resurgence of Calm, with slight ups and then catastrophic downs. It wasn't as bad as being a JangBi fan must have been, but having your favorite team collapse (again) after a brief period of stability, it becoming clearer and clearer that your favorite 2 players (Calm and Kal) will likely never come fully out of their slump, and your least favorite team and player finishing multiple rounds undefeated was pretty horrendous. And now Proleague will likely morph into even more of a 2 team (or even one team) competition. Ugh. But I guess some fans WOULD like that. -.- It's not T1's fault that other teams are mediocre ... sry :/
Sigh...do you really have to add more fuel to the fire? Saying the other teams are mediocre is insulting and not necessary. Just be happy that your team is doing well and pray that BIsu will advance far in the MSL.
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I think the SK coaches seem to be the best at getting the match ups right and preparing the players well with particular strategies.
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Great read. Really hoping Oz can make it next year and for Jangbi, Bisu, and Snow to become/remain awesome.
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Bisu is like a god
as long as he is alive SKT will win every single proleague left at sc:bw
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The more I think about it the more I disagree about KT coaches saving the team. I feel they have A LOT of potential in the team.. That is something I base on watching them play rather than looking at stats. They buy players left and right: CH, Action, ForGG a couple of seasons back. These players have not developped in KT, they have become worse imo. That is not good coaching.
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I think CJ coach is the best.
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On July 19 2011 21:05 Elroi wrote:
The more I think about it the more I disagree about KT coaches saving the team. I feel they have A LOT of potential in the team.. That is something I base on watching them play rather than looking at stats. They buy players left and right: CH, Action, ForGG a couple of seasons back. These players have not developped in KT, they have become worse imo. That is not good coaching.
None of these players played particularly worse after coming to KT. Action was always a mediocre sub-50% win zerg on estro, and ForGG was slumping when Oz traded him away and KT atleast brought him back to relative mediocrity and a fairly consistent member of starleague group stages. Luxury left Hite and went on to win an MSL.
I don't think KT specifically makes players they buy better, but I never got this notion of "Oh my god this guy joined KT and started playing horribly!"
I am critical of KT's coaching staff because they are arguably the worst staff in the league at getting favorable matchups. Lots of PvZs and ZvTs makes our mediocre lineup look worse than it is -- that's one of the major differences between KT zergs and SKT zergs is that SKT does a phenomenal job of getting their zergs to avoid ZvTs, but KT seems to seek it out with Action and such.
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I tend to agree with TTT. It might just be "persecuted fan delusions", but it feels like KT almost always gets the short end of the stick when it comes to matchups and has for quite some time. Thankfully, one notable exception was the Shinhan finals against SKT last year.
Woongjin-KT spoilers.
+ Show Spoiler +They allowed Light to play TvZ in every single match!
Their race specific coaches seem to be pretty good, from my limited insight into it. H.O.T. has had significant success with the protoss lineup overall (yes, he's the protoss coach). And since Hery has become a coach shortly before Flash's godmode kicked in, he's been side-by-side with Flash helping him pick strategies for all the finals he was in, plus Barracks has come along recently.
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Though I dislike protoss, respect to Bisu, man. Doing meh in the individual leagues, but what a team workhorse.
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On July 19 2011 03:38 Crunchums wrote:
i feel compelled to briefly state my thoughts here -
ACE - Unless they pick up a couple of stronger players they are going to do worse next season.
MBC - Light leaving was a huge blow that they will not recover from any time soon. Currently this team is not a playoff threat even when they are firing on all cylinders. I would be surprised if they are not one of the 3 worst teams next season.
FOX - The team with the highest variance. They could make the playoffs or be the second worse team next season and neither outcome would surprise me. Playoffs are as easy as Baby finding his mojo again and Wooki living up to the promise he has shown without Roro/Mind/Shine/Midas dropping off too much, and if they get there they have the depth and strength to put up a fight, but who knows whether any of those things will happen.
Oz - Jaedong is still Jaedong and Killer has developed into a reliable #2. The big questions here are what is going on with Hiya (my own guess is that his current performance is reflective of his actual skill but then why is he consistently so successful in WL??) and can they find a player outside of those 3 better than Perfectman. Without some serious improvement in their non-Jaedong non-Killer players this is a team constructed to scrape to make it to the ace match and then hope Jaedong can pull it out - that is not a recipe for success in the playoffs. My guess is they finish in a similar position next season.
STX - With the emergence of Bogus, STX has all the pieces to succeed. Bogus/Kal/Calm/Shuttle is a strong core and STX has always had the strongest roleplayers. The obvious question mark is whether Kal and Calm can stop performing so erratically - they're basically the Protoss and Zerg version of fantasy except their team can't keep chugging along when they trip up - but as strong as STX would be if that happens I would still question their ability to hang with SKT and CJ. Hang in their STX fans, next season STX will probably win a playoff match before their inevitable, disappointing collapse.
And to answer your question, no, by.hero will never be legitimately good.
KHAN - Things look promising for KHAN - they've got a slew of promising newer players (Brave, Turn, Reality, Grape...), Stork, and Jangbi is back with a vengeance. great isn't going to cut it so they'll need some of those newer players to realize their potential. If none of that potential gets realized they might struggle to make the playoffs, if some of it gets realized they should make the playoffs easily but be unable to compete with the top 2-3 teams, if a lot of it gets realized they are a contender for the title.
Stars - I completely agree that losing Crazy-Hydra hurt them a lot and that free looks washed up. Stars would benefit a lot from the emergence of a player outside of Zero/Soulkey/Light/Really as that depth would give them a huge advantage against every team outside of CJ, but if that doesn't happen they'll probably still be at least the third best team after CJ and SKT.
KT - No way they finished this high next season. I would be surprised if Stats is able to maintain that level of performance but even if he drops off he'll still be KT's #2, Action isn't getting any better, and they miss Violet really really badly. Having Crazy-Hydra for an entire season will help and it's possible (but in my view, unlikely) for one of their depth players to step it up but you are right that KT has no depth - Flash can go on winning 75% of his games but I think KT is going to struggle to reach ace matches next season.
CJ - CJ is hax indeed. Their roster drops off after their first 5 players but that's inevitable when your first 5 players are performing that well... but they're getting Effort back anyways. Eeesh.
SKT - I am guessing Bisu will drop off a little and everyone else will combine to win a few fewer games as the rest of the teams improve, but I would be quite surprised if they were not one of the top 3 teams next season.
wow uh so much for brief, heh
Agree for the most part. Rankings for next year IMO
1. CJ Entus
2. SK T1
3. Woongjin Stars
4. KT Rolster
5. STX Soul
6. Samsung KHAN
7. WeMade FOX
8. Hwaesung OZ
9. MBC Game HERO
10. Airforce ACE
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On July 20 2011 05:32 djbhINDI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2011 03:38 Crunchums wrote:
i feel compelled to briefly state my thoughts here -
ACE - Unless they pick up a couple of stronger players they are going to do worse next season.
MBC - Light leaving was a huge blow that they will not recover from any time soon. Currently this team is not a playoff threat even when they are firing on all cylinders. I would be surprised if they are not one of the 3 worst teams next season.
FOX - The team with the highest variance. They could make the playoffs or be the second worse team next season and neither outcome would surprise me. Playoffs are as easy as Baby finding his mojo again and Wooki living up to the promise he has shown without Roro/Mind/Shine/Midas dropping off too much, and if they get there they have the depth and strength to put up a fight, but who knows whether any of those things will happen.
Oz - Jaedong is still Jaedong and Killer has developed into a reliable #2. The big questions here are what is going on with Hiya (my own guess is that his current performance is reflective of his actual skill but then why is he consistently so successful in WL??) and can they find a player outside of those 3 better than Perfectman. Without some serious improvement in their non-Jaedong non-Killer players this is a team constructed to scrape to make it to the ace match and then hope Jaedong can pull it out - that is not a recipe for success in the playoffs. My guess is they finish in a similar position next season.
STX - With the emergence of Bogus, STX has all the pieces to succeed. Bogus/Kal/Calm/Shuttle is a strong core and STX has always had the strongest roleplayers. The obvious question mark is whether Kal and Calm can stop performing so erratically - they're basically the Protoss and Zerg version of fantasy except their team can't keep chugging along when they trip up - but as strong as STX would be if that happens I would still question their ability to hang with SKT and CJ. Hang in their STX fans, next season STX will probably win a playoff match before their inevitable, disappointing collapse.
And to answer your question, no, by.hero will never be legitimately good.
KHAN - Things look promising for KHAN - they've got a slew of promising newer players (Brave, Turn, Reality, Grape...), Stork, and Jangbi is back with a vengeance. great isn't going to cut it so they'll need some of those newer players to realize their potential. If none of that potential gets realized they might struggle to make the playoffs, if some of it gets realized they should make the playoffs easily but be unable to compete with the top 2-3 teams, if a lot of it gets realized they are a contender for the title.
Stars - I completely agree that losing Crazy-Hydra hurt them a lot and that free looks washed up. Stars would benefit a lot from the emergence of a player outside of Zero/Soulkey/Light/Really as that depth would give them a huge advantage against every team outside of CJ, but if that doesn't happen they'll probably still be at least the third best team after CJ and SKT.
KT - No way they finished this high next season. I would be surprised if Stats is able to maintain that level of performance but even if he drops off he'll still be KT's #2, Action isn't getting any better, and they miss Violet really really badly. Having Crazy-Hydra for an entire season will help and it's possible (but in my view, unlikely) for one of their depth players to step it up but you are right that KT has no depth - Flash can go on winning 75% of his games but I think KT is going to struggle to reach ace matches next season.
CJ - CJ is hax indeed. Their roster drops off after their first 5 players but that's inevitable when your first 5 players are performing that well... but they're getting Effort back anyways. Eeesh.
SKT - I am guessing Bisu will drop off a little and everyone else will combine to win a few fewer games as the rest of the teams improve, but I would be quite surprised if they were not one of the top 3 teams next season.
wow uh so much for brief, heh Agree for the most part. Rankings for next year IMO 1. CJ Entus 2. SK T1 3. Woongjin Stars 4. KT Rolster 5. STX Soul 6. Samsung KHAN 7. WeMade FOX 8. Hwaesung OZ 9. MBC Game HERO 10. Airforce ACE
However what I wanna see:
1. ACE.
2 -> 9,
Your list, just moved down respective ranks.
But yeah I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened. But you never know, JDOZ has the potential to pull on top of FOX.
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United States10141 Posts
On July 18 2011 14:12 b0lt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2011 13:44 VGhost wrote:Regular Season Finish: 3rd (32-22); WL 1st (16-2) Playoffs: ??? (now 1-1 (3-4, 4-2) vs WJN); WL 2nd (L 1-4 vs SKT) Ace: FlashKT Rolster has the best damn coach in the business. I know he has Flash on his bench whenever necessary, but KT has no depth whatsoever.* Sure, double WL helped the team out a lot (and Stats really stepped up to the plate there), but to make 32 wins out of basically Flash is a phenomenal job. Touted Zerg prospect Action has gotten better, but is still mediocre (which is at least better than KT's had since Lux removed himself). Crazy-Hydra will almost certainly help the cause - he briefly had Woongjin's best Zerg record, and KT imported his race coach too - but that side hasn't shown up for sure yet in the KT house, where he's still playing second fiddle to Action. On a sobering note, KT's not had good luck with players this year. Flash's wrist will certainly sideline him at some indefinite point. Violet has leukemia. fOrGG retired. YellOw has retired (not that he added much to the KT bench, unfortunately). Best of luck to them all. Next year? The fact that they'll almost certainly dominate that Winners League season (again) gives them a good shot regardless, but, if Action continues to improve, Crazy-Hydra acclimates, Flash gets healthy, and Stats plays well, KT shouldn't have to depend on Winners League to take a top playoff spot. * In one sense not exactly true: most of KT's bench players are mediocre, not bad, unlike, say, OZ. But they're still not good, either. You seem to have forgotten something. + Show Spoiler +
LMAO was about to say, why no mention of an on fire hoejja? not like a flash or bisu on fire, but on fire for his level. hoejja has really stepped things up here.
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Oh wow Bisu has been a beast this season.
I have faith that the Korean Air Force will show everyone their strength in military stratigicness in the next season. They will be a force to reckon with.
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amazing post ! thank you so much for this write up, you say a lot of things really nicely.
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+ Show Spoiler [KT vs Stars spoilers] +Stars - I completely agree that losing Crazy-Hydra hurt them a lot and that free looks washed up. Stars would benefit a lot from the emergence of a player outside of Zero/Soulkey/Light/Really as that depth would give them a huge advantage against every team outside of CJ, but if that doesn't happen they'll probably still be at least the third best team after CJ and SKT.
Stars went 18-20 in 6 games this postseason - Zero: 6-2 (losses to Stats and Crazy-Hydra) Soulkey: 4-2 (losses to Perfective and Flash) Light: 5-1 (loss to Reality) Really: 2-3 (losses to Flash (twice) and Grape) Rest of team: 1-12 (free beat Action) o.O
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