EPTMostly lurker here...
I came to TL from SC2 (as did many people) and am interested in getting into watching Pro BW. Where do I start?
Thanks all.
Getting into watching Pro BW?
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Arterial
Australia1039 Posts
Mostly lurker here... I came to TL from SC2 (as did many people) and am interested in getting into watching Pro BW. Where do I start? Thanks all. | ||
Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/calendar/2011/05/#event_4799 | ||
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0mgVitaminE
United States1278 Posts
all the bw vods can be found there. Also on the calendar are match dates/times, and people stream them live. Oh man almost forgot to say watch gom vods. I'm assuming you're familiar with Tasteless, and he casts a lot of sc games on gomtv.net as well http://www.gomtv.net/videos/index.gom?cate=9 I got really into sc because of gom. Even if you don't understand everything at first, it's more entertaining to have a funny commentator talking about the game then korean vods where you can start to feel overwhelmed and lost. | ||
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Diglett
600 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/user/nevake?blend=1&ob=5 | ||
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Rhaegar99
Australia1190 Posts
If you want to watch Vods nevake on youtube is a good start. Vods are uploaded fairly often with at most 1-2 day delay. If you want english commentary you might have to ask someone else. I dont know where to find them  | ||
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Arterial
Australia1039 Posts
Also as a side question, does anyone have a link or something with say...the best matches/games? Or the best player's best games? It's just I *hear* about the big names, Flash, Jaedong, Bisu etc etc but I've never seen any of their games. | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6635 Posts
On May 18 2011 10:03 Arterial wrote: Thanks for the friendly responses guys, Also as a side question, does anyone have a link or something with say...the best matches/games? Or the best player's best games? It's just I *hear* about the big names, Flash, Jaedong, Bisu etc etc but I've never seen any of their games. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=52045 That's the 'Recommended VODs of recent games' thread or you can search for Bisu vs JD, Flash vs JD etc. in nevake's channel. Also don't forget The Small VOD Thread, an essential! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50875 | ||
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JSH
United States4109 Posts
On May 18 2011 10:05 jello_biafra wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=52045 That's the 'Recommended VODs of recent games' thread or you can search for Bisu vs JD, Flash vs JD etc. in nevake's channel. And then check out the Small VOD Thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50875 for the games! Thanks to all the uploaders~ | ||
Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtGrjhj_rgo&feature=player_embedded | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32274 Posts
You can go to #teamliquidbw to discuss about the games, or just post in the Live Report threads (made in the BW Tourneys section). If you feel you need more knowledge of the game to be able to spectate it, you can look in the gom site for old GOMTV vods which were casted in english by Tasteless + someone else. | ||
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Dance.
United States389 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=222682 Basically I just linked a bunch of really good vods and some other people linked some more really good vods. | ||
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Seide
United States831 Posts
If you really want to know something specific about a game, if you post a question in the LR thread, people are very happy to answer it. Just following the BW forum itself is good too, it makes it a lot more interesting watching when you know who the players are and some of their history. | ||
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Arterial
Australia1039 Posts
I've read a bit on the teams on liquipedia, i'd like to ask a few questions... are there any teams that are dominating? i may be totally wrong in this, but the big names seem to be all in different teams and such? thanks again guys =) | ||
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astroorion
United States1022 Posts
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gostunv
Japan1178 Posts
Of course you can enjoy watching the epic games and understand at a basic level why some of the great games are "great" but if you have a deeper understanding (build orders, players' good&bad MUs, map MUs, push timings, unit counters, general history, etc.) you will be able to enjoy games so much more. Watching BW vods with english commentary is prolly the best entrance. Husky, Day9, Cholera, Klazart are my suggestions. | ||
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barkles
United States285 Posts
Moletrap (current Code A commentator, long time BW commentator): http://www.youtube.com/moletrap This commentator has been inactive for a while, but still a classic: http://www.youtube.com/klazartsc Someone else mentioned cholera, and there was a shared account for all of the above that had a bunch of dual casts: http://www.youtube.com/user/VioleTAK Also, Day9 Dailies started as BW analysis. Most of them are pretty heavy stuff ("Let's analyze the fuck out of this map for this matchup in the current metagame", etc), but the BGH 2v2v2v2 games that Day9 covered were quite funny indeed and would be a very casual, fun introduction to BW. I think those dailies were numbers 50 and 61. They're on the blip.tv archives On May 18 2011 10:17 gostunv wrote: Watching BW vods with english commentary is prolly the best entrance. Husky, Day9, Cholera, Klazart are my suggestions. Husky deleted all of his BW commentaries I think  | ||
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6635 Posts
On May 18 2011 10:14 Arterial wrote: I played a quite a lot of BW (singleplayer derp) and a bit of LANing with my mates, but before TL, i didnt even know about pro SCBW! =[ I've read a bit on the teams on liquipedia, i'd like to ask a few questions... are there any teams that are dominating? i may be totally wrong in this, but the big names seem to be all in different teams and such? thanks again guys =) SKT and KT Rolster are traditionally the two powerhouses, take a look at the Results & Standings thread in the BW Tourney section for details ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=162417) Well Flash, Jaedong and Bisu are all on different teams, but pretty much every team has very respectable players in it. | ||
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skindzer
Chile5114 Posts
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astroorion
United States1022 Posts
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barkles
United States285 Posts
Individual leagues: OSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=75487 MSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=75488 Proleague: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=75489 | ||
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sheaRZerg
United States613 Posts
I prefer watching them for a few reasons... a higher concentration of big name players, less mirror-match ups (which are common in team matches especially once the map pool becomes somewhat old, and the excitement of a 1v1 BoX format... I suppose most importantly (for me) is that I simply dont have time during term to watch it all...I usually prioritize the individual tournaments and sometimes matches with my favorite teams... On May 18 2011 10:14 Arterial wrote: are there any teams that are dominating? Obviously all pro-teams are not created equal *cough*SKT*cough*, and you can check the standing for yourself on the right hand side of the site where it is labeled league standings (under TLPD). To be honest, however, I feel like most the teams are relatively even...not like football where most the good leagues have one or two teams that always seem to dominate... Ace tends to find themselves on the low end of the tables most of the time. They are a team composed of players in the Air-Force (lol...korea), and thus tend to have some older (read, past their prime) gamers, but still players who are relatively big names. Oz is a one man team -_-. Edit: I forgot to mention that watching bw is always best with fellow fans...so find some...convince some...bribe some. It makes for the best experience | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On May 18 2011 10:14 Arterial wrote: I played a quite a lot of BW (singleplayer derp) and a bit of LANing with my mates, but before TL, i didnt even know about pro SCBW! =[ I've read a bit on the teams on liquipedia, i'd like to ask a few questions... are there any teams that are dominating? i may be totally wrong in this, but the big names seem to be all in different teams and such? thanks again guys =) noticing you're a Zerg. Root for the top zerg player JaeDong. from there you can read comments during LR threads or IRC or even that teamspeak PL season about his play or something. because I had a fairly good knowledge about BW before watching progaming and it seems its also the same case as you. I started watching BW after I heard this super-gosu bonjwa named Savior was roflstomped by an up and coming protoss. And watched his VoDs, watched some FBH and read youtube comments before my 1st BW post on GG.net. It's really easy to get hooked on BW if you are rooting for a specific player. + Show Spoiler + I just realized that if Bisu wasn't transfered to T1, I would have been rolling an MBC icon or an Oz. lol | ||
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kdgns
United States2427 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=99417 SKT final edit http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=107295 KT final edit The article is a bit old but people can catch you up with the what happened after Also to note, Airforce Ace is always assumed to be the worst team, due to lower practice times and higher average ages, however, usually when players go to ace, they catch a second wind, from being on the benches in their old team to being on the front lines in ace, many players make the fans go, was he always that good? see ruby, ggaemo, m18m, etc. | ||
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vek
Australia936 Posts
On May 18 2011 10:03 Arterial wrote: Thanks for the friendly responses guys, Also as a side question, does anyone have a link or something with say...the best matches/games? Or the best player's best games? It's just I *hear* about the big names, Flash, Jaedong, Bisu etc etc but I've never seen any of their games. Small VOD thread as others have already suggested. But this remains one of my absolute favourite games: + Show Spoiler + | ||
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sheaRZerg
United States613 Posts
Once upon a time he did his dailies about professional brood war games, and I have always been a fan of his analysis...The games are somewhat dated by now, so I guess its up to you. link Scroll down to find the older, pre-SC2 ones. I very much miss his broodwar commentary. | ||
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erin[go]bragh
United States815 Posts
It also does a good job explaining the tournament/proleauge scene, which is quite different from SC2. It also goes into a little bit of history, a lot of which will be outdated, but it'll introduce you to some of the bigger names in the scene. Other 2 parts in the spoiler! Sorry, I'm an embed noob. + Show Spoiler + | ||
Antoine
United States7481 Posts
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elmizzt
United States3309 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=222353 | ||
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Gooey
United States944 Posts
I got into it through SC2 here at TL, and the community is great. I was just surfing around late one night and saw the pro league on the schedule. I clicked on GTR's stream to watch KT vs Oz. I had heard all of the pros talking about broodwar a lot, and I knew the names Flash, Jaedong, and Bisu. That was the only experience I had with the pro scene. It just so happened that Jaedong and Flash would both be playing right as I turned the stream on. First game, I watch jaedong play against Stats. The game looked really weird after watching or playing sc2 for the last few months, but I didn't let it bother me too much. The MBC commentators we encapsulating to listen to, even though I couldn't understand a damned thing they were saying. Even thought I wasn't aware of what timings were or meant at the time, or what should happen, the commentators would pan around and suddenly get really excited and worked up about an expansion, and suddenly things started happening all over the map. Watching jaedong was crazy, seeing him do muta pressure and lose them, but still manage to come back and execute a huge doom drop that caught the protoss off guard. I was amazed to see how much multitasking was going on. The next match was with Flash, the supposed best player in the world. I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Boy was I in for a treat. The first thing I saw him make was a command center, which for sc2 at the time was unheard of and guaranteed suicide. I was thinking "how in the hell does he think he can hold this off?". Sure enough, he has his tank pop out at the exact moment he needed it! The rest of the match turned into flash performing beautiful tank sieging, microing vultures to run out in front to take the shots 1 at a time right as the volley goes off, while at the same time taking yet another base. Suddenly they show wraiths come out, and I thought "flash has nothing that shoots up, this is bad". But yet again, RIGHT when the wraiths get to flash's tank line, two turrets finish and 4 goliaths walk up to greet them. The commentators were going nuts, and eventually flash had something like 4-5 secure bases to his opponent's 2. He just made him look silly, not through some kind of build order win, but with insane unit control/positioning, and very intelligent decision making. After watching him execute this ridiculous defense, I became an instant fan. Haven't looked back since. I ended up looking through the TL search the next day, finding some of his videos, and watching them with my mouth hanging open. Since then, I've gone back and watched some of the classic broodwar moments to live those special moments in time, and it has been quite an experience. Reading about the legends like iloveoov, boxer, nada, and yellow was inspiring, and gave me a good sense of how broodwar has become what it is today, and what it means to a lot of people. Starcraft is a unique thing, and broodwar is a great part of its history, and still is. Happy viewing, and welcome again to broodwar, I hope you stay | ||
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LuckyMacro
United States1482 Posts
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GG_NO_RE
Japan238 Posts
On May 18 2011 10:09 IntoTheWow wrote: I would say the best would be watching a live even with other people on IRC. You can go to #teamliquidbw to discuss about the games, or just post in the Live Report threads (made in the BW Tourneys section). If you feel you need more knowledge of the game to be able to spectate it, you can look in the gom site for old GOMTV vods which were casted in english by Tasteless + someone else. i second this. it's really great to watch live with some sort of chat, be it IRC or the streamer's chat. it just gets your more pumped and excited about what's happening. also, like others have said, if you feel you need some more knowledge about the game, look for english commentaries. the undisputed king of english casting was klazartsc who was known to have an insanely high wpm (words per minutes haha). he really helped capture the adrenaline that the korean commentators put into the games. cholera is also good. | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
Of course old vods have outdated strategy, but you'll still have a better understanding than not. This also depends on how good you are at SCII, if you're pretty good, then it's probably not too much trouble just to go to the recommended vods fairly quickly. | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
this thread has listed m,any of the best games over the years. | ||
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
I would almost caution against just watching all time great games. Some of the things in them are a bit over the head of someone who is just starting to watch. I would advise waiting until you understand some of the strategies, and you know who the players are (ever OSL finals means so much more when you understand the back story). edit: WATCH WITH SOUND ON. Makes the experience so much more meaningful when you have someone else getting excited for you (or pointing out when you should be excited if you are really lost). | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19347 Posts
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GTR
51447 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://data.ygosu.com/upload_files/board_discuss_sc/87558/4c465d7b4c44b.jpg) | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On May 18 2011 12:05 GTR wrote: brood war is the only game i do the fangirl praying stance with. + Show Spoiler + gorgeous! | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
ZvZ: It mostly consist of large clouds of mutalisks with scourge support and they fight for air supremency, as well as zergling wars. ZvZ is very short and there are BO losses ie 9pool>12hatch>12pool>overpool>9pool. (Standard builds) ZvZ gets everyone hyped up when it goes "hive tech" meaning that it slowly transitions to ground wars or to queens and devourers. Woongjin Zerg advocate for this hive tech play and Great from Samsung did a hive tech build against hydra in the MSL finals (can't find the vods, but its worth it). ZvP: Mostly consist of zerglings defilers ultras or hydra lurkers against zealot high templar archon balls. Protoss will normally go forge expand into stargate play to get corsairs for air control and Zerg goes scourge to snipe the sairs. This matchup is a lot of fun to watch especially when you see clutch storms or dark swarms in the big engagements and zealot runbys into zerg bases. Bisu is the best PvZer ( SIGH its true...) so watch his vods to get a sense of it. ZvT: IMO the best matchup to watch. Standard ZvT is marine medic tank vessel vs defiler lurker zerglings with scourges to snipe vessels and or ultras if zerg can get 4 or more gas. There has been a rise of Mech terran play against Zerg with tanks goliaths and vultures, played by Fantasy ( His bio control is lawls) but mech has been hard countered by usage of Queens to snipe the tanks to keep the deathball size down ( Queue in Emergency Terran Meeting thread). Normally its a 12hatch or overpool vs 1 rax fe then transitions to Muta harrass for zergs to take a 3rd, though there is possibility for cheeses (Leta vs Soulkey ro16 in MSL is an example of this) and creates exciting games. TvP: This matchup is all about mech terran deathballs vs Protoss balls with arbiter support or goliath deathball vs Carriers. Usually the path of the games depends on the map, with some maps good for Carriers (Bloody Ridge, I'm looking at you) or other maps better for arbiters play. early game both expand early and go towards mid game strats which mainly deals around getting map control with mines or with other units and the terran trying to create the mech deathball (2-1 push into gg much?). There is a lot of excitment when the Protoss uses reavers to attempt to kill scvs and other units since it requires a lot of skill and there is a randomness factor to it. BeSt is a fantastic PvTer when hes not slumping ( his game vs flash is proof ) and Stork is considered the master of Carrier usage due to his insane carrier micro. TvT: Might as well call it chess, because the games take forever to do, at least for standard games. The reason why it takes forever to win is because TvT is all about positional play and out manuvering the opponent. It consist of tank spread and vultures harrass with sometimes dropships to help ferry units around. There has been a recent surge of going air builds with wraiths and valkyries in an epic air battle, but this really only happens when the map is split and neither can get any breakthrough in the lines. Late game TvT involves BattleCruisers (Oh yeah!). FLash is a God at TvT, and Light, FBH, Baby, Mind, and Skyhigh also display fantastic TvT play. PvP: Reach "Its a manly matchup". PvP is very exciting to watch because it can end early with dragoon reaver micro wars in the early mid game of the match or Zealot Archon Storm in the late game PvP. PvP has a big emphasis on unit micro due to bad protoss AI ( Dragoon, why u no go down ramp?) and on BOs. Horang2 is the Best PvPer out there (yes, hes better than Bisu) and you should watch his game vs Bisu from last night to see what i am talking about. There are other little things you will be able to learn about, but i hope this little guide helped. Long live BW! | ||
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QuickStriker
United States3694 Posts
On May 18 2011 12:05 GTR wrote: brood war is the only game i do the fangirl praying stance with. + Show Spoiler + amen to that brother. amen! | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On May 18 2011 12:02 icystorage wrote: pick a favorite | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19347 Posts
On May 18 2011 12:24 moopie wrote: i initially rooted for leta before rooting OGN :3 | ||
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Louuster
Canada2869 Posts
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
My favorites The Ultimate Weapon (Flash) Heir Apparent (Jaedong and Savior) Revolutionary Magic (Bisu) End of the Line (KT Rolster proleague team) On Waxen Wings (about the term 'bonjwa'. Out of date since Flash became one but still a great read nonetheless) On the Shoulders of Giants (TL writers with links to some of their best works) Since you're from an SC2 background you'll probably like this article by day9. Terran Revolutionist (Fantasy's TvZ Mech 'revolution') | ||
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BlackMesa
Kenya338 Posts
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hacklebeast
United States5090 Posts
On May 18 2011 12:33 icystorage wrote: i initially rooted for leta before rooting OGN :3 ' If you don't know anyone, you might accidentally start rooting for someone like odin. You don't need to root for TBLS, but it's no fun if you root for a player that rides the pine far more than he plays. All of the teams, good or bad, will at least be out there to root for. | ||
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icystorage
Jollibee19347 Posts
On May 18 2011 13:21 hacklebeast wrote: ' If you don't know anyone, you might accidentally start rooting for someone like odin. You don't need to root for TBLS, but it's no fun if you root for a player that rides the pine far more than he plays. All of the teams, good or bad, will at least be out there to root for. I actually first read Dr.Helvetica's great write-up about Leta and still remember how he came back from behind against Guemchi in Tau Cross and became his fan <3 my point is that rooting first for a player then his team really worked for me (just like me rooting for brandon roy then the blazers) | ||
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eton7410
Canada261 Posts
You can come to my stream right now and watch KT vs Khan right now http://www.livestream.com/flashisop | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
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qrs
United States3637 Posts
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epikAnglory
United States1120 Posts
Firstly though, make sure you understand all the BW units and most of the fundamentals of each matchup. Know the basics, you should give us how much information you know about BW, for example that TvP is mainly tank-vulture against zealot-dragoon. Day9tv.blip.tv has a lot of casted BW games and analysis (before #100ish). | ||
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phosphorylation
United States2935 Posts
I think you can only appreciate BW to the fullest only if you played it at least once. You are not going to appreciate all the things that the pros are pulling off with such aplomb until you tried it yourself. That's why it's so popular in korea. Virtually everyone under 30 yrs of age (males AND females) have played BW at least once and know the basics and can appreciate it. | ||
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Arterial
Australia1039 Posts
I finished the campaign of vanilla SC and BW, and LANd with mates regularly 3 years ago. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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Antoine
United States7481 Posts
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
On May 18 2011 15:22 Antoine wrote: i really urge you to not pick a team or player based on what you read about them, then base your rooting off that. i strongly believe the best fan experience comes from watching, then choosing after a short time. While I agree with this, reading up on the legends who are now either retired, slumping, or still active (such as Midas/Iris) or even barely playing (Anytime/Reach/Yellow) can make you a big fan of them and root for them when they do play. I missed Iris' prime, in particular, but because of all the great things I've read about him and the fact that I watched several awesome games with him in it (series vs GGplay, Savior, and Bisu), he's one of the people I root for against 90% of the current young talent in the scene. | ||
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Arterial
Australia1039 Posts
Just wanted to update everyone on how I've been going. I was reading through the "Whats with the Hostility?" thread and yeesh there's quite a lot of hating going on in there. I came to the BW forums with my head down and with a humble mindset and a lot of what the BW people are saying are right.. It makes me go =.= whenever I see a SC2 player say "BW is dead." Anyways, nowadays I watch a lot of BW games off nevake on youtube and my favourite player to watch is Savior with Jaedong being 2nd =) | ||
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Sayle It's the Ribbon classic tournament going on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=234923 | ||
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micromegas
Denmark171 Posts
On May 18 2011 10:38 sheaRZerg wrote: Oh also...seeing as you are familiar with SC2 you have probably heard of the infamous Day[9]... Once upon a time he did his dailies about professional brood war games, and I have always been a fan of his analysis...The games are somewhat dated by now, so I guess its up to you. link Scroll down to find the older, pre-SC2 ones. I very much miss his broodwar commentary. Just to follow up on that - I thought his analysis of Nada vs Bisu was useful (a game from 2009 if I remember correctly) even though it's dated. He talks a lot about basic unit placement and composition, long-term map control, macro choices and so forth, and seeing as TvP might be the match-up that's undergone the least change (someone please take me up on that if you'd like), it's still a useful VOD in many respects. And I think he had a much 'calmer' approach to games back then - which might or might not have something to do with he BW-SC2 transition, but regardless, more of a serene tone I'd say. | ||
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yeti
United States258 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=197538 The top 5 reasons I prefer BW to SC2 can be found in these games. | ||
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Ciryandor
United States3735 Posts
On August 01 2011 07:02 Arterial wrote: Hi all! Just wanted to update everyone on how I've been going. I was reading through the "Whats with the Hostility?" thread and yeesh there's quite a lot of hating going on in there. I came to the BW forums with my head down and with a humble mindset and a lot of what the BW people are saying are right.. It makes me go =.= whenever I see a SC2 player say "BW is dead." Anyways, nowadays I watch a lot of BW games off nevake on youtube and my favourite player to watch is Savior with Jaedong being 2nd =) Well, it is quite unfortunate that a lot of people are not open-minded enough about giving BW a chance; that their comparatively decent performance in SC2 entitles them to imply competence in BW or disdain over the "clunkiness" that is an integral part of BW. | ||
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