• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:37
CEST 13:37
KST 20:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War1135.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Server Blocker Stellar Fest 2 Replay Pack
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
[Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Rollback Netcode in Brood War Bot on ladder BW General Discussion Sagi.gg Launcher Released
Tourneys
ASL 22 Finals 2v2v2v2 Tournament Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Women's StarCraft] MonstarZ vs Dreams 2026-10-15
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV General RTS Discussion Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9102 users

[Trans]Learn to watch ZvZ by Shark Part1. - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
sCCrooked
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1306 Posts
February 15 2011 22:18 GMT
#21
Its about time ZvZ was looked more in depth from an actual progamer's perspective. Thanks Shark! b'-')b
Enlightened in an age of anti-intellectualism and quotidian repetitiveness of asinine assumptive thinking. Best lycan guide evar --> "Fixing solo queue all pick one game at a time." ~KwarK-
-Frog-
Profile Joined February 2009
United States514 Posts
February 15 2011 22:22 GMT
#22
On February 16 2011 07:06 Random_0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2011 04:36 jpak wrote:
Please remember that even if both players chose the same build order, their management of the game can be different if they used their larvae differently.


Am I ignorant? How can use of the larvae be different if the build order is the same?


he's talking about how a player uses their larvae after they've thrown down their pool/hatch/gas.

both of us can go 12 hatch but you could make 6 lings when your pool finishes and i could make 3 drones.
powered by coffee, driven by hate.
slappy
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1271 Posts
February 15 2011 22:35 GMT
#23
I, for one, really enjoyed the recent zvzs. JD vs Hydra series was especially awesome even without a hive tech game.

Thank you Shark for shedding some light on us . I have liked his commentary, even though I can't understand him lol
jaedong imba
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
February 15 2011 22:37 GMT
#24
On February 16 2011 07:06 Random_0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2011 04:36 jpak wrote:
Please remember that even if both players chose the same build order, their management of the game can be different if they used their larvae differently.


Am I ignorant? How can use of the larvae be different if the build order is the same?

Consider what he said about the overlords. Let's pretend that the map is Benzene and you 12pooled. Your opponent has also 12pooled but he has hidden ovie to make you worried/think he went 9speed/9lair etc. When your pool pops, you are going to be using all larva on lings and even pulling 2 drones to send to nat to help defend what you think is coming (also taking a guy off gas and going speed first). Meanwhile, he has been droning the whole time and probably went lair first. (also, remember just how long the rush distance are on the map)

There's other stuff too but this should help give basic idea.
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
February 15 2011 22:42 GMT
#25
Can't wait for part 2. I think I would appreciate the MU a lot more with better knowledge. Wish I knew korean so I could understand the commentators during the games.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Caos2
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1728 Posts
February 15 2011 22:49 GMT
#26
ZvZ can be fun, especially the tense ones.
As a matter of fact, one of my favorite games of all time is a ZvZ (no, it's not a Hive tech game):
Calm vs Effort in Matchpoint
DerNebel
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark648 Posts
February 15 2011 22:55 GMT
#27
On February 16 2011 06:02 jpak wrote:
WHO SAID ZvZ IS BORING?!


What jpak said. Though I'm afraid the final will turn out like the Bacchus OSL 2009, where (Z)Jaedong just stomped right over (Z)YellOw[ArnC] in like 30 minutes. (Z)Hydra just seems like such a ZvZ BEAST right now that only Jaedong really can rival it and he is out of the picture now.

But still, Shark is awesome. Really great that he's reaching out and explaining ZvZ. It is just so difficult to see anything but BO wins and mutaling micro in the matchup if you don't know what to look for.
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3137 Posts
February 15 2011 23:02 GMT
#28
atleast this makes it clear to me why ret had so much trouble learning zvz once he went to korea. I just assumed the match up wasn't so hard since people so often consider it to be based on openings
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
OmniscientSC2
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States713 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-15 23:13:35
February 15 2011 23:12 GMT
#29
I love playing ZvZ so much, and playing it is awesome. I just dislike people who view it as ling/muta :X
"Did you know about Day and the Wicker Basket?" - Harem "Hi, I'm from Texas." -TLO
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-15 23:14:25
February 15 2011 23:13 GMT
#30
ZvZ is really fun and this article actually enlightened me on a few points, really interesting read!
Writer
Conversion
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3308 Posts
February 15 2011 23:14 GMT
#31
On February 16 2011 08:12 OmniscientSC2 wrote:
I love playing ZvZ so much, and playing it is awesome. I just dislike people who view it as ling/muta :X


grr ninja edit LOL

hydra stomping is always fun to watch <3

moreso if i can understand zvz

go shark!
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
February 15 2011 23:18 GMT
#32
This is amazing :O ty!~
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
Weasel-
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada1556 Posts
February 15 2011 23:20 GMT
#33
I thought this was pretty standard stuff. But then again I actually played Zerg (got to C), so maybe this just seems like common knowledge.

ZvZ is easily the best mirror and a very fun matchup to play and watch.

Thanks for translating.
Spica
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5582 Posts
February 15 2011 23:25 GMT
#34
Thank you very much for the translation! It's great to see Shark trying to open the public's eyes about what real ZvZ is, since he is the first former Zerg progamer commentator. :D

After watching Hydra vs. Jaedong's Bo5 games, they completely changed my mindset of thinking that ZvZs were snorefests to intense micro and mind games. I'm glad that I finally have my eyes opened to the true fun of ZvZ matchups, and hope that I can enjoy them more in the future.
How to pronounce the name: "SPY-ka" | Proud to share the same birthday with Shin (神) Dong Won and the almighty BoxeR | 리쌍도 나무에서 떨어진다. | To YellOw: "2位じゃダメなんですか?" ㅋㅋㅋ | Rest in peace, Violet. 08/23/12
Trowabarton756
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States870 Posts
February 16 2011 01:41 GMT
#35
I guess I felt that this was just common sense....of course it matters heavily who has more larva/who uses their larva to their advantage more....didn't think a lot of people didn't know this...
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Trowabarton756
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27179 Posts
February 16 2011 01:44 GMT
#36
Spotlighted.
ModeratorGodfather
amethyst
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States98 Posts
February 16 2011 01:48 GMT
#37
Thanks for translating, can't wait for part 2!
MaxField
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2386 Posts
February 16 2011 01:55 GMT
#38
I love this, Really want to go watch a bunch of ZvZ now!
"Zerg, so bad it loses to hydras" IdrA.
JerKy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)3013 Posts
February 16 2011 02:03 GMT
#39
Yay Shark!
I remember him from Hyungjoon becomes a Progamer :D
You can type "StarCraft" with just your left hand.
XsebT
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Denmark2980 Posts
February 16 2011 02:08 GMT
#40
Thanks a lot for the translation! Very interesting read!
I really like the matchup before even reading this, so it's just nice to get even more details to look for.
화이팅
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
20:00
WardiTV Not-Summer Championshi
IntoTheiNu 437
WardiTV324
OGKoka 177
TKL 122
LamboSC260
Liquipedia
Online Event
20:00
BamsPatch 1.0 Weekly #4
SHIN 11
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 206
OGKoka 177
TKL 122
LamboSC2 60
SHIN 11
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 7435
Bisu 1231
FanTaSy 693
Jaedong 440
Horang2 429
Larva 428
BeSt 312
actioN 281
Stork 266
Zeus 163
[ Show more ]
Hyuk 157
ZerO 147
Dewaltoss 145
EffOrt 113
Snow 111
Light 108
ggaemo 105
Leta 104
Barracks 79
Mind 75
Hyun 74
Killer 71
Free 57
Pusan 57
910 40
ToSsGirL 30
Sharp 30
Shinee 29
Bishop 27
hero 27
soO 25
ajuk12(nOOB) 21
Hm[arnc] 21
Bale 20
sorry 15
sSak 13
Noble 12
zelot 12
Terrorterran 4
Dota 2
canceldota3
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss1605
olofmeister1345
kennyS912
kRYSTAL_22
Other Games
gofns30691
singsing1797
Coldzera 750
B2W.Neo694
Lowko217
Pyrionflax215
ZerO(Twitch)7
BEARDiaguz4
DeMusliM0
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 11
lovetv 5
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 22
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
15h 23m
Afreeca Starleague
18h 23m
Rush vs Soulkey
CranKy Ducklings
22h 23m
WardiTV Invitational
23h 23m
AI Arena Tournament
1d 4h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 7h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 22h
OSC
2 days
IPSL
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.