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[Trans]Learn to watch ZvZ by Shark Part1. - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
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Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
sCCrooked
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1306 Posts
February 15 2011 22:18 GMT
#21
Its about time ZvZ was looked more in depth from an actual progamer's perspective. Thanks Shark! b'-')b
Enlightened in an age of anti-intellectualism and quotidian repetitiveness of asinine assumptive thinking. Best lycan guide evar --> "Fixing solo queue all pick one game at a time." ~KwarK-
-Frog-
Profile Joined February 2009
United States514 Posts
February 15 2011 22:22 GMT
#22
On February 16 2011 07:06 Random_0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2011 04:36 jpak wrote:
Please remember that even if both players chose the same build order, their management of the game can be different if they used their larvae differently.


Am I ignorant? How can use of the larvae be different if the build order is the same?


he's talking about how a player uses their larvae after they've thrown down their pool/hatch/gas.

both of us can go 12 hatch but you could make 6 lings when your pool finishes and i could make 3 drones.
powered by coffee, driven by hate.
slappy
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1271 Posts
February 15 2011 22:35 GMT
#23
I, for one, really enjoyed the recent zvzs. JD vs Hydra series was especially awesome even without a hive tech game.

Thank you Shark for shedding some light on us . I have liked his commentary, even though I can't understand him lol
jaedong imba
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
February 15 2011 22:37 GMT
#24
On February 16 2011 07:06 Random_0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 16 2011 04:36 jpak wrote:
Please remember that even if both players chose the same build order, their management of the game can be different if they used their larvae differently.


Am I ignorant? How can use of the larvae be different if the build order is the same?

Consider what he said about the overlords. Let's pretend that the map is Benzene and you 12pooled. Your opponent has also 12pooled but he has hidden ovie to make you worried/think he went 9speed/9lair etc. When your pool pops, you are going to be using all larva on lings and even pulling 2 drones to send to nat to help defend what you think is coming (also taking a guy off gas and going speed first). Meanwhile, he has been droning the whole time and probably went lair first. (also, remember just how long the rush distance are on the map)

There's other stuff too but this should help give basic idea.
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
February 15 2011 22:42 GMT
#25
Can't wait for part 2. I think I would appreciate the MU a lot more with better knowledge. Wish I knew korean so I could understand the commentators during the games.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Caos2
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1728 Posts
February 15 2011 22:49 GMT
#26
ZvZ can be fun, especially the tense ones.
As a matter of fact, one of my favorite games of all time is a ZvZ (no, it's not a Hive tech game):
Calm vs Effort in Matchpoint
DerNebel
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark648 Posts
February 15 2011 22:55 GMT
#27
On February 16 2011 06:02 jpak wrote:
WHO SAID ZvZ IS BORING?!


What jpak said. Though I'm afraid the final will turn out like the Bacchus OSL 2009, where (Z)Jaedong just stomped right over (Z)YellOw[ArnC] in like 30 minutes. (Z)Hydra just seems like such a ZvZ BEAST right now that only Jaedong really can rival it and he is out of the picture now.

But still, Shark is awesome. Really great that he's reaching out and explaining ZvZ. It is just so difficult to see anything but BO wins and mutaling micro in the matchup if you don't know what to look for.
puppykiller
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States3137 Posts
February 15 2011 23:02 GMT
#28
atleast this makes it clear to me why ret had so much trouble learning zvz once he went to korea. I just assumed the match up wasn't so hard since people so often consider it to be based on openings
Why would I play sctoo when I can play BW?
OmniscientSC2
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States713 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-15 23:13:35
February 15 2011 23:12 GMT
#29
I love playing ZvZ so much, and playing it is awesome. I just dislike people who view it as ling/muta :X
"Did you know about Day and the Wicker Basket?" - Harem "Hi, I'm from Texas." -TLO
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-15 23:14:25
February 15 2011 23:13 GMT
#30
ZvZ is really fun and this article actually enlightened me on a few points, really interesting read!
Writer
Conversion
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3308 Posts
February 15 2011 23:14 GMT
#31
On February 16 2011 08:12 OmniscientSC2 wrote:
I love playing ZvZ so much, and playing it is awesome. I just dislike people who view it as ling/muta :X


grr ninja edit LOL

hydra stomping is always fun to watch <3

moreso if i can understand zvz

go shark!
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
February 15 2011 23:18 GMT
#32
This is amazing :O ty!~
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
Weasel-
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada1556 Posts
February 15 2011 23:20 GMT
#33
I thought this was pretty standard stuff. But then again I actually played Zerg (got to C), so maybe this just seems like common knowledge.

ZvZ is easily the best mirror and a very fun matchup to play and watch.

Thanks for translating.
Spica
Profile Joined December 2010
United States5582 Posts
February 15 2011 23:25 GMT
#34
Thank you very much for the translation! It's great to see Shark trying to open the public's eyes about what real ZvZ is, since he is the first former Zerg progamer commentator. :D

After watching Hydra vs. Jaedong's Bo5 games, they completely changed my mindset of thinking that ZvZs were snorefests to intense micro and mind games. I'm glad that I finally have my eyes opened to the true fun of ZvZ matchups, and hope that I can enjoy them more in the future.
How to pronounce the name: "SPY-ka" | Proud to share the same birthday with Shin (神) Dong Won and the almighty BoxeR | 리쌍도 나무에서 떨어진다. | To YellOw: "2位じゃダメなんですか?" ㅋㅋㅋ | Rest in peace, Violet. 08/23/12
Trowabarton756
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States870 Posts
February 16 2011 01:41 GMT
#35
I guess I felt that this was just common sense....of course it matters heavily who has more larva/who uses their larva to their advantage more....didn't think a lot of people didn't know this...
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Trowabarton756
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27173 Posts
February 16 2011 01:44 GMT
#36
Spotlighted.
ModeratorGodfather
amethyst
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States98 Posts
February 16 2011 01:48 GMT
#37
Thanks for translating, can't wait for part 2!
MaxField
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2386 Posts
February 16 2011 01:55 GMT
#38
I love this, Really want to go watch a bunch of ZvZ now!
"Zerg, so bad it loses to hydras" IdrA.
JerKy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)3013 Posts
February 16 2011 02:03 GMT
#39
Yay Shark!
I remember him from Hyungjoon becomes a Progamer :D
You can type "StarCraft" with just your left hand.
XsebT
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Denmark2980 Posts
February 16 2011 02:08 GMT
#40
Thanks a lot for the translation! Very interesting read!
I really like the matchup before even reading this, so it's just nice to get even more details to look for.
화이팅
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