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I think I need to defend my position a little.
I'm under the impression, that winning means more than doing well once you get to the playoffs. Everyone killed Flash when he "choked" up 2-0 to Effort in OSL. And everyone killed Jaedong when Flash beat him 3-0 in MSL. Now, Flash and Jaedong have proven in the past to be clutch players.
From my view, coaches need to be held to a high standard as well. Making the playoffs is nice, but wouldn't winning it be better? One can argue that CJ Entus had one of the deepest teams in this playoff format. A BO7 for Entus is an advantage over KT and STX.
I compare this to NBA/NFL in coaching. If the coach wins in the regular season and gets you into the playoffs but cannot get you any further, should you just be happy with that? I can guarantee that everyone in the SKT house is thinking PL championship or bust.
Why would you play BByong in the playoffs when you have Iris? Iris has been in the pressure cooker before.
And explain Snow? If they think Fantasy is being sent out, why not send out Effort? Fantasy's worst M/U is TvZ and Fantasy had lost to a zerg earlier that day (maybe confidence lower). What it shows me, is that the coach did not have confidence that his "star" player Effort could not beat Bisu/Best/Fantasy and tried to snipe the ace with a gamble on Snow.
Remember a week ago when OZ vs SKT happened? OZ sent out JD in ace match and SKT coach sent S2. Everyone went "wtf" and didn't understand it. (even though s2 pulled the upset)
So my stance on "fire the coach" is more of a playoff misstep. In my opinion, the CJ coach choked in this situation.
Edit: Added Iris part
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Polaris Rhapsody isn't good for Zergs at all, sending Effort for ace would have been a huge mistake.
Cho realized he couldn't beat Bisu on a P-favored map, so he sent Snow hoping that Park would mess up and send fantasy.
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On July 21 2010 02:15 Iplaythings wrote:Erh, us from KT shouldnt be too loud about our zerg lineup. Lol.
lol i'd take KT zergs over SKT zergs anyday
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On July 21 2010 05:23 jalstar wrote:
Polaris Rhapsody isn't good for Zergs at all, sending Effort for ace would have been a huge mistake.
Cho realized he couldn't beat Bisu on a P-favored map, so he sent Snow hoping that Park would mess up and send fantasy.
But ZvP it's not too bad on that map. And I know Bisu got beat on that map by a zerg before.
This is what I think: Protoss favored map and you don't have a good PvP or TvP player, you have to send your best zerg. This would be like OZ sending out Backho instead of Jaedong to play Bisu. Or, sending Stats instead of Flash. (Although, Stats might be the better pick in this case  )
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tree.hugger, would you please at least change the order of the day by day results in the op? Preferably you should spoiler that picture of Day 3 too. I just wanted to read the article now (I remembered it was posted before today's games), but instead a sad dogface quite clearly spoiled me the results of today's games (well i was only planning to watch the highly recommended ace game, but still.)
As it is, I didnt even have a chance to dodge it.
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On July 21 2010 05:21 catabowl wrote:
Why would you play BByong in the playoffs when you have Iris? Iris has been in the pressure cooker before.
And explain Snow? If they think Fantasy is being sent out, why not send out Effort? Fantasy's worst M/U is TvZ and Fantasy had lost to a zerg earlier that day (maybe confidence lower). What it shows me, is that the coach did not have confidence that his "star" player Effort could not beat Bisu/Best/Fantasy and tried to snipe the ace with a gamble on Snow.
Because Iris played in the previous two days and wasn't any good? Because he knows more about how BByong and Iris compare than you and I do?
And about the Snow part: Fantasy got sent out the day before with a prepared build to snipe Effort. Fantasy is good at using prepared builds. Perhaps CJ's coach wanted to avoid that because Effort hasn't been that solid against terran this year
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On July 21 2010 05:37 tree.hugger wrote:I think we need to get over this a little. I would've preferred to see  EffOrt out for CJ, but I don't mind  Snow at all. He's a very solid player, and has shown strong performances in all of his match-ups in the past. Was CJ expecting fantasy? Possibly, but I think it's more likely they were covering all their bases with a player who could take out SKT's ace (fanta) or their other choices (Bisu and BeSt). It's a P-favored map, so CJ sent out their best protoss. Not a terrible decision by any stretch. Just got outplayed, and not by much.
Makes sense. But I always believe, you play your best player no matter what.
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On July 21 2010 05:24 serenidite wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 02:15 Iplaythings wrote:On July 21 2010 02:09 moopie wrote:SKT zergs: + Show Spoiler +
Day 1: 0-3
Day 2: 1-2
Day 3: 0-2
Overall: 1-7. Go Go SKT Zergs!
Erh, us from KT shouldnt be too loud about our zerg lineup. Lol. lol i'd take KT zergs over SKT zergs anyday
KT only has to send 1 Zerg really. watch out for Hoejja's one hit wonder ZvP.
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I would have rather seen Eff0rt as well. But I still think CJ played the best we could. Gl to SKT. We'll see you guys next time. Count on it!
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On July 21 2010 05:21 catabowl wrote:
I think I need to defend my position a little.
I'm under the impression, that winning means more than doing well once you get to the playoffs. Everyone killed Flash when he "choked" up 2-0 to Effort in OSL. And everyone killed Jaedong when Flash beat him 3-0 in MSL. Now, Flash and Jaedong have proven in the past to be clutch players.
From my view, coaches need to be held to a high standard as well. Making the playoffs is nice, but wouldn't winning it be better? One can argue that CJ Entus had one of the deepest teams in this playoff format. A BO7 for Entus is an advantage over KT and STX.
I compare this to NBA/NFL in coaching. If the coach wins in the regular season and gets you into the playoffs but cannot get you any further, should you just be happy with that? I can guarantee that everyone in the SKT house is thinking PL championship or bust.
Why would you play BByong in the playoffs when you have Iris? Iris has been in the pressure cooker before.
And explain Snow? If they think Fantasy is being sent out, why not send out Effort? Fantasy's worst M/U is TvZ and Fantasy had lost to a zerg earlier that day (maybe confidence lower). What it shows me, is that the coach did not have confidence that his "star" player Effort could not beat Bisu/Best/Fantasy and tried to snipe the ace with a gamble on Snow.
Remember a week ago when OZ vs SKT happened? OZ sent out JD in ace match and SKT coach sent S2. Everyone went "wtf" and didn't understand it. (even though s2 pulled the upset)
So my stance on "fire the coach" is more of a playoff misstep. In my opinion, the CJ coach choked in this situation.
Edit: Added Iris part
Your stuff makes sense but it might also be that the CJ coach, having way better info than us and already having been pretty good at sniping throughout the series thought his gamble would pay off more often than his "obvious" picks.
Just like you think replacing him might pay off instead of just going the obvious route of letting him stay and say better luck next time since he's been good in the past.
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10387 Posts
On July 20 2010 22:13 alffla wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2010 21:10 catabowl wrote:SKT wins! CJ should fire the coach. He sends out BByong and Snow for Ace. So bad! When do I get to see that 2,000 word essay on how great SKT is and how they will repeat as PL champs! lol fireing coach cho would be the most insane move ever and GG.. got results spoiled by awtching the mbc wemade game lol but o wells T_T so sad aishhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
lol CJ coach is good, he just got a bit unlucky having to face SKT.
If anything, the Hwaseung coach should be fired -_- and January maybe, or she's getting really unlucky with her players lol
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cuz they won't, good effort spent into it, but SKT wins without a doubt
EDIT: What don't fire CJ coach, I think he's a pretty awesome guy =O
OZ coach is one of those people I don't like to see sad, idk what that person would do without his job =O
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FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
Firing Cho is a dumb idea. That man is probably the best coach I've ever seen in terms of choosing matches for his swiss-knife army.
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On July 21 2010 05:24 serenidite wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 02:15 Iplaythings wrote:On July 21 2010 02:09 moopie wrote:SKT zergs: + Show Spoiler +
Day 1: 0-3
Day 2: 1-2
Day 3: 0-2
Overall: 1-7. Go Go SKT Zergs!
Erh, us from KT shouldnt be too loud about our zerg lineup. Lol. lol i'd take KT zergs over SKT zergs anyday
you crazy?
On July 21 2010 05:32 catabowl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 05:23 jalstar wrote:
Polaris Rhapsody isn't good for Zergs at all, sending Effort for ace would have been a huge mistake.
Cho realized he couldn't beat Bisu on a P-favored map, so he sent Snow hoping that Park would mess up and send fantasy. But ZvP it's not too bad on that map. And I know Bisu got beat on that map by a zerg before. This is what I think: Protoss favored map and you don't have a good PvP or TvP player, you have to send your best zerg. This would be like OZ sending out Backho instead of Jaedong to play Bisu. Or, sending Stats instead of Flash. (Although, Stats might be the better pick in this case )
Or Hiya instead of Jaedong vs Flash?
Guess what it works a lot of times, it just didnt this time
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They sent out snow cause SNOW IS A BALLER, end of discussion, he just some-how lost. Probably cause he was nervous.
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EPT
