The third trial of the match-fixing scandal took place on July 7th, where Jin X was called as a witness.
Jin first got the suggestion of match-fixing in the beginning of December 2009. On a chat in Battle.Net, Ma X told him: “I’ve been troubled recently. A hyung I know is doing match-fixing, he wants me to lose on purpose, and I don’t know if I should do it.” That’s when Jin first learned of match-fixing. Ma also said: “That hyung (a soccer player) is doing bets. If you throw a game, you can get rewarded. I was hesitant at first too, but I did it in the end.” He then asked Jin: “Do you have any games?”
Jin replied: “I have an OSL game, I’m already eliminated.” Ma then said: “If I did it, you should do it too. If you lose, you can get 3 000 000 won.”
After that, Jin, according to the agreement, lost the game on purpose by making control errors. The day after the game, Ma gave Jin the money at a café near Jin’s dorm.
Jin’s second fixed game was slightly different. The day before the SPL game on 2009 December 30th, Ma texted Jin and told him the opponent is going to play 2 factory management, but Jin still lost the game. After that, Ma said: “The hyung I know bet on you winning, and he lost 20 000 000, all because you lost. You should pay him back somehow. Do you have any games?”
Jin said: “Even though I know the opponent’s opening, it’s still possible to lose in the macro game, I can’t guarantee that he won’t lose money.” But he also said: “After hearing that I caused him to lose money, I’m a bit guilty, so I told him I’ll lose the MSL game the next day and amend it.”
After that, Jin again lost a game by making control errors according to the agreement, and again got 3 000 000 won in the same method as the price for losing.
Also, 2 days before a game on 2010 January 19th against Park X, Ma texted him: “Don’t worry, someone will take care of it.” Then, he relayed some information that Won X gave him.
Jin admitted his match fixing to his team’s manager in February of this year. He expressed that beyond these two games, he didn’t fix any other matches.
- You're meeting Kal, your teammate, in the ro8. ▲ It's put me in a dilemma. Out of the 8 players it's the player I wanted to face the least. He's the worst opponent to face. It's an individual league, so of course I want to do well and win, so I'll try my best.
On July 08 2010 16:52 HaruHaru wrote: i wonder if match fixing had to do with tossgirl breaking up with hwasin :/ that would have been a greater loss than his career imo
lol im pretty sure hwasin can easily get women 1000x hotter than tossgirl. not in jail though...
- You're meeting Kal, your teammate, in the ro8. ▲ It's put me in a dilemma. Out of the 8 players it's the player I wanted to face the least. He's the worst opponent to face. It's an individual league, so of course I want to do well and win, so I'll try my best.
On July 08 2010 16:52 HaruHaru wrote: i wonder if match fixing had to do with tossgirl breaking up with hwasin :/ that would have been a greater loss than his career imo
lol im pretty sure hwasin can easily get women 1000x hotter than tossgirl. not in jail though...
On July 08 2010 16:52 HaruHaru wrote: i wonder if match fixing had to do with tossgirl breaking up with hwasin :/ that would have been a greater loss than his career imo
lol im pretty sure hwasin can easily get women 1000x hotter than tossgirl. not in jail though...
Sorry, I'd be hard pressed to find somebody 1000x hotter than tossgirl
I don't think Hwasin agreed to lose the entire series to Kal, just the first game of the bo5 (which was split up).
That was the game on Odd Eye where Hwasin tried to attack-move with unsieged Tanks at one point when it was CLEARLY not going to work and basically gave away the game right there.
On July 08 2010 16:52 HaruHaru wrote: i wonder if match fixing had to do with tossgirl breaking up with hwasin :/ that would have been a greater loss than his career imo
Hwasin was going out with tossgirl? Can I get a link?
The interesting thing about sc is that there probably is more match fixing going on that you haven't heard about. Lets take a look at other sports. Foorball, soccer, basketball, all these are team games. If you want to fix it, you have to get the whole team on it, or atleast some key figures. And the more people know about it, the higher likely hood of it happening. So this discourages people from fixing games in large teams, because there is too much people involved.
In starcraft for example, it's a 1v1 sort of game. This makes match fixing oh so much easier. A player can just tell his parents to bet 10,000 dollars against him and lose. BOOM, instant 10g. Something like this is much larger fixing which is why I guess they got caught, but still, starcraft in general makes match fixing VERY easy. To fully eliminate match fixing they have to inspect the phone calls all these players make and all forms of communication, which is impossible, so theoretically, the possibility of more matchfixing still exists today. For all you know, everyone is match fixing, and MJY just got caught at it.
I guess something like tennis also promotes match fixing because it's also a 1v1 type of game.
Sumo wrestling is fixed sometimes, especially for the matches on the last day (day 15). Wrestlers need 8 wins to advance to the next rank, so if a 7-7 wrestler faces a 8-6 wrestler (or some other wrestler that doesn't have a 7-7 record), then they can fix the match so that both people can have 8 wins. If it's 7-7 vs 7-7, of course they're both gonna just do their best to win, so there's unlikely to be rigged matches there.
of course, in recent news, sumo wrestlers have been accused of gambling on baseball games (punishable by law in Japan). not match fixing, so it's kinda different from this.......
On July 08 2010 16:52 HaruHaru wrote: i wonder if match fixing had to do with tossgirl breaking up with hwasin :/ that would have been a greater loss than his career imo
lol im pretty sure hwasin can easily get women 1000x hotter than tossgirl. not in jail though...
Sorry, I'd be hard pressed to find somebody 1000x hotter than tossgirl
It wouldn't surprise me if most of the people involved weren't master criminal gamblers.
Savior and Justin are the main culprits here. Although I am really skeptical of Luxury, since he had been dogging it for a while, and didn't seem to get along with anybody on KT.
On July 08 2010 21:07 zulu_nation8 wrote: Hwasin sounds like a 6 year old who can't make decisions for himself.
Hwasin looks 6 years old.
Wow so the game where Hwasin didn't siege his tanks against Kal was rigged? Why am I not surprised. Even D- players could tell that Hwasin had plenty of time to siege his tanks.
On July 08 2010 21:07 zulu_nation8 wrote: Hwasin sounds like a 6 year old who can't make decisions for himself.
Well, it's probably some kind of magnification of that. Hwasin's a 22 or 23 year old guy, sure, but he and most pros have probably worked their entire lives on and off the pro teams with KeSPA or their coaches always telling them what to do. It's not excusable for him to make this kind of choice still, but I can understand it. Mentally he still seems like somebody who has trouble saying no to people he's met before.
On July 08 2010 17:26 infinity2k9 wrote: How did Savior know Leta would play 2fac, Justin or someone giving the information i suppose?
Or type-b
or YarnC
or go.go
you pick
Leta: Hey dudes! Help me with my 2fac! I needa practice it vs Hwasin... he's really good and I want to catch him offguard.
type-b+yarnc+gogo+justin: NO PROBLEM LETA >=D
-Leta looks back on those memories after reading this-
Leta: EDIT: LOLOLOL YEAH FAGS U TRIED TO PLAYA HATE AND TAKE ME OUT BUT LOOK WHAT HAPPENED> YOU CANT STOP THE CUTE MIRACLE TERRAN FOOS... ... BUT LOL @ HWASIN NUB
It's kind of sad that Leta was maybe betrayed by half the Sparkyz A team—maybe more often than just against Hwasin.
The guy has been one of the best PL players for a very long time (probably the best except Flash/Jaedong). So all his wins are for the benefit of his team, with little success in the starleagues (Maybe this explains why?), and his teammates stab him in the back to make a little money on the side.
This is assuming he wasn't in on it, and they just haven't caught him yet.
On July 08 2010 16:52 HaruHaru wrote: i wonder if match fixing had to do with tossgirl breaking up with hwasin :/ that would have been a greater loss than his career imo
lol im pretty sure hwasin can easily get women 1000x hotter than tossgirl. not in jail though...
Sorry, I'd be hard pressed to find somebody 1000x hotter than tossgirl
Tossgirl is not hot at all... Look at pictures of her. She looks like a middle-aged woman with too much makeup. She was definitely cute as a kid, but the years have not been kind to her.
On July 08 2010 16:52 HaruHaru wrote: i wonder if match fixing had to do with tossgirl breaking up with hwasin :/ that would have been a greater loss than his career imo
lol im pretty sure hwasin can easily get women 1000x hotter than tossgirl. not in jail though...
Sorry, I'd be hard pressed to find somebody 1000x hotter than tossgirl
Tossgirl is not hot at all... Look at pictures of her. She looks like a middle-aged woman with too much makeup. She was definitely cute as a kid, but the years have not been kind to her.
Middle aged women can be hot, and tossgirl definitely still qualifies. She's well above the mean, you only date supermodels?
On July 08 2010 22:08 SimonB wrote: It's kind of sad that Leta was maybe betrayed by half the Sparkyz A team—maybe more often than just against Hwasin.
The guy has been one of the best PL players for a very long time (probably the best except Flash/Jaedong). So all his wins are for the benefit of his team, with little success in the starleagues (Maybe this explains why?), and his teammates stab him in the back to make a little money on the side.
This is assuming he wasn't in on it, and they just haven't caught him yet.
Man when i read that line with savior telling hwasin that leta is going to open 2 fact management. It didnt sink in until i read your post again. Oh god now thats just messed up Sparkyz. Thats so.... To betray your teammate's back and actually reveal the build he was planning to use.
It just sickens me to imagine someone like Justin asking Leta pretending to care for him, to give him tips while in reality hes stabbing him in the back.
On July 08 2010 22:08 SimonB wrote: It's kind of sad that Leta was maybe betrayed by half the Sparkyz A team—maybe more often than just against Hwasin.
The guy has been one of the best PL players for a very long time (probably the best except Flash/Jaedong). So all his wins are for the benefit of his team, with little success in the starleagues (Maybe this explains why?), and his teammates stab him in the back to make a little money on the side.
This is assuming he wasn't in on it, and they just haven't caught him yet.
I doubt he would be in on it. I mean if he was intentionally leaking his BO's he could have easily thrown the game V Hwasin rather than out macroing him as he did. Though losing when you've been told 2 fact opening does seem hilariously stupid. But yeah sucks to be stabbed in the back like that. Personally I blame go.go
On July 08 2010 22:08 SimonB wrote: It's kind of sad that Leta was maybe betrayed by half the Sparkyz A team—maybe more often than just against Hwasin.
The guy has been one of the best PL players for a very long time (probably the best except Flash/Jaedong). So all his wins are for the benefit of his team, with little success in the starleagues (Maybe this explains why?), and his teammates stab him in the back to make a little money on the side.
This is assuming he wasn't in on it, and they just haven't caught him yet.
I'd feel bad if he didn't look into the crowd all the time to get signaled information at the start of games
Stop the Ma is probably savior nonsense! There is only one Mr. Ma and you should know that he has the quote steaming genitals of Genghis Khan/quote. I mean look at this stuff, such mastery of words, such fearlessness. He might have been losing it as a gamer but the rest of him is the same as in the days of old. I am confident that this man will be doing fine in life having retired from progaming.
On the current topic: Tossgirl is meh, I suspect that people who consider her extremely hot suffer from a syndrome when men have skewed perception of a woman when perceiving an environment where the said woman is the only one or one of the very few, see military. Maybe there is a name for this illness?
On July 09 2010 00:22 hellbound wrote: Stop the Ma is probably savior nonsense! There is only one Mr. Ma and you should know that he has the quote steaming genitals of Genghis Khan/quote. I mean look at this stuff, such mastery of words, such fearlessness. He might have been losing it as a gamer but the rest of him is the same as in the days of old. I am confident that this man will be doing fine in life having retired from progaming.
is this a joke? savior is going to pay fines and/or go to jail. his future career doing anything is ruined.
On July 09 2010 00:22 hellbound wrote: Stop the Ma is probably savior nonsense! There is only one Mr. Ma and you should know that he has the quote steaming genitals of Genghis Khan/quote. I mean look at this stuff, such mastery of words, such fearlessness. He might have been losing it as a gamer but the rest of him is the same as in the days of old. I am confident that this man will be doing fine in life having retired from progaming.
Maybe if all this happened in US. In Korea, this will destroy him.
On July 09 2010 00:22 hellbound wrote: Stop the Ma is probably savior nonsense! There is only one Mr. Ma and you should know that he has the quote steaming genitals of Genghis Khan/quote. I mean look at this stuff, such mastery of words, such fearlessness. He might have been losing it as a gamer but the rest of him is the same as in the days of old. I am confident that this man will be doing fine in life having retired from progaming.
On the current topic: Tossgirl is meh, I suspect that people who consider her extremely hot suffer from a syndrome when men have skewed perception of a woman when perceiving an environment where the said woman is the only one or one of the very few, see military. Maybe there is a name for this illness?
On July 09 2010 00:22 hellbound wrote: On the current topic: Tossgirl is meh, I suspect that people who consider her extremely hot suffer from a syndrome when men have skewed perception of a woman when perceiving an environment where the said woman is the only one or one of the very few, see military. Maybe there is a name for this illness?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder my friend. Some people might find that a chick who loves SC and has a wicked APM as hot (plus she is pretty good lookin' too) - note what type of website we are on right now.
Now, back to the savior business... so he was like the godfather eh? Wow, I guess if you are going to do something, be it illegal or not, might as well be at the top?
I have to admit that this is pretty interesting. I do not know whether I should be impressed or disgusted with Savior. Poor Hwasin for being such a pussy, he wife will probably be kicking his ass if he gets married.
The third trial of the match-fixing scandal took place on July 7th, where Jin X was called as a witness.
Jin first got the suggestion of match-fixing in the beginning of December 2009. On a chat in Battle.Net, Ma X told him: “I’ve been troubled recently. A hyung I know is doing match-fixing, he wants me to lose on purpose, and I don’t know if I should do it.” That’s when Jin first learned of match-fixing. Ma also said: “That hyung (a soccer player) is doing bets. If you throw a game, you can get rewarded. I was hesitant at first too, but I did it in the end.” He then asked Jin: “Do you have any games?”
Jin replied: “I have an OSL game, I’m already eliminated.” Ma then said: “If I did it, you should do it too. If you lose, you can get 3 000 000 won.”
After that, Jin, according to the agreement, lost the game on purpose by making control errors. The day after the game, Ma gave Jin the money at a café near Jin’s dorm.
Jin’s second fixed game was slightly different. The day before the SPL game on 2009 December 30th, Ma texted Jin and told him the opponent is going to play 2 factory management, but Jin still lost the game. After that, Ma said: “The hyung I know bet on you winning, and he lost 20 000 000, all because you lost. You should pay him back somehow. Do you have any games?”
Jin said: “Even though I know the opponent’s opening, it’s still possible to lose in the macro game, I can’t guarantee that he won’t lose money.” But he also said: “After hearing that I caused him to lose money, I’m a bit guilty, so I told him I’ll lose the MSL game the next day and amend it.”
After that, Jin again lost a game by making control errors according to the agreement, and again got 3 000 000 won in the same method as the price for losing.
Also, 2 days before a game on 2010 January 19th against Park X, Ma texted him: “Don’t worry, someone will take care of it.” Then, he relayed some information that Won X gave him.
Jin admitted his match fixing to his team’s manager in February of this year. He expressed that beyond these two games, he didn’t fix any other matches.
One thing I'm confused about.. how did Savior know that Leta was going to be playing a 2 factory management game in the Dec 30th SPL game? If I'm interpreting the article correctly it says "Before the SPL game on Dec 30th, 2009, Ma texted Jin and told him his opponent is going to play 2 factory management.." and below it shows the Dec 30th SPL game as "Hwasin vs Leta" so this suggests Savior knew what Leta's strategy was going to be.. yet supposedly Leta was not involved in this whole match fixing scandal.. am i missing something here??
man, after reading that i felt pretty bad for Hwasin, who knows what would've happened if he didn't "pay back" that guy by losing more games. this is so depressing =\ and the way that savior was talking, it's as if he has been doing it for a while and was getting "good" at it
doesnt take away from ma's accomplishments though. Pete Rose never bet on his own team, and Michal Jordans father got wacked because of his gambling debts, oh and ever hear of the phantom punch? Savior is still Savior.
The third trial of the match-fixing scandal took place on July 7th, where Jin X was called as a witness.
Jin first got the suggestion of match-fixing in the beginning of December 2009. On a chat in Battle.Net, Ma X told him: “I’ve been troubled recently. A hyung I know is doing match-fixing, he wants me to lose on purpose, and I don’t know if I should do it.” That’s when Jin first learned of match-fixing. Ma also said: “That hyung (a soccer player) is doing bets. If you throw a game, you can get rewarded. I was hesitant at first too, but I did it in the end.” He then asked Jin: “Do you have any games?”
Jin replied: “I have an OSL game, I’m already eliminated.” Ma then said: “If I did it, you should do it too. If you lose, you can get 3 000 000 won.”
After that, Jin, according to the agreement, lost the game on purpose by making control errors. The day after the game, Ma gave Jin the money at a café near Jin’s dorm.
Jin’s second fixed game was slightly different. The day before the SPL game on 2009 December 30th, Ma texted Jin and told him the opponent is going to play 2 factory management, but Jin still lost the game. After that, Ma said: “The hyung I know bet on you winning, and he lost 20 000 000, all because you lost. You should pay him back somehow. Do you have any games?”
Jin said: “Even though I know the opponent’s opening, it’s still possible to lose in the macro game, I can’t guarantee that he won’t lose money.” But he also said: “After hearing that I caused him to lose money, I’m a bit guilty, so I told him I’ll lose the MSL game the next day and amend it.”
After that, Jin again lost a game by making control errors according to the agreement, and again got 3 000 000 won in the same method as the price for losing.
Also, 2 days before a game on 2010 January 19th against Park X, Ma texted him: “Don’t worry, someone will take care of it.” Then, he relayed some information that Won X gave him.
Jin admitted his match fixing to his team’s manager in February of this year. He expressed that beyond these two games, he didn’t fix any other matches.
One thing I'm confused about.. how did Savior know that Leta was going to be playing a 2 factory management game in the Dec 30th SPL game? If I'm interpreting the article correctly it says "Before the SPL game on Dec 30th, 2009, Ma texted Jin and told him his opponent is going to play 2 factory management.." and below it shows the Dec 30th SPL game as "Hwasin vs Leta" so this suggests Savior knew what Leta's strategy was going to be.. yet supposedly Leta was not involved in this whole match fixing scandal.. am i missing something here??
On July 08 2010 16:52 HaruHaru wrote: i wonder if match fixing had to do with tossgirl breaking up with hwasin :/ that would have been a greater loss than his career imo
lol im pretty sure hwasin can easily get women 1000x hotter than tossgirl. not in jail though...
Sorry, I'd be hard pressed to find somebody 1000x hotter than tossgirl
I love how people who wouldn't be able to go out with someone like Tossgirl bash her as ugly. I'm sorry she doesn't meet your supermodel standards. This conversation got old two years ago.
If Hwasin was going out with Tossgirl, good for him. She's good looking and as a fellow progamer can understand his job better than any other girl on the planet.
“The hyung I know bet on you winning, and he lost 20 000 000, all because you lost. You should pay him back somehow. Do you have any games?”
It's a little different though, since Korean culture is big about elder-honour, so it's different than saying "my friend", cuz you're saying "my elder (and thus more respectable, more wise, more intelligent, presumably)".
Lol, if I lost a match where I knew what the other guy was doing I still would not pay the guy who tipped me off. Since the other player was not in on the scam he was still trying to win. There are no guarantees.
On July 09 2010 05:26 jalstar wrote: i would bet that the unknown "hyung" is actually savior, it's the classic "my friend" technique
“The hyung I know bet on you winning, and he lost 20 000 000, all because you lost. You should pay him back somehow. Do you have any games?”
It's a little different though, since Korean culture is big about elder-honour, so it's different than saying "my friend", cuz you're saying "my elder (and thus more respectable, more wise, more intelligent, presumably)".
Savior could think of himself as more wise, intelligent, etc. : P
On July 08 2010 16:52 HaruHaru wrote: i wonder if match fixing had to do with tossgirl breaking up with hwasin :/ that would have been a greater loss than his career imo
lol im pretty sure hwasin can easily get women 1000x hotter than tossgirl. not in jail though...
Sorry, I'd be hard pressed to find somebody 1000x hotter than tossgirl
Tossgirl is not hot at all... Look at pictures of her. She looks like a middle-aged woman with too much makeup. She was definitely cute as a kid, but the years have not been kind to her.
Middle aged women can be hot, and tossgirl definitely still qualifies. She's well above the mean, you only date supermodels?
I really don't like this kind of argument. Reductio Ad Ridiculum. It's where you extend my argument to ridiculous proportions, and then you make fun of the result.
Let's say that I don't like to drink water. Then, you might say, "WTF?! If you never drink water, you'll die in 3 days! You're so stupid." Just because I don't drink water doesn't mean I have gone to the extreme to restrict any form of water intake.
Just because I said TossGirl wasn't hot doesn't mean I automatically date supermodels. That's ridiculous. (Or, Reductio Ad Ridiculum). TossGirl isn't hot. There are plenty of girls in Korea hotter than her. I have dated girls better looking than TossGirl. I have never dated a supermodel.
On July 09 2010 10:19 Ideas wrote: why are the MSL games vs kal mentioned at all? they werent mentioned at all in the article and now everyone think he dropped them on purpose?
On July 08 2010 16:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Jin said: “Even though I know the opponent’s opening, it’s still possible to lose in the macro game, I can’t guarantee that he won’t lose money.” But he also said: “After hearing that I caused him to lose money, I’m a bit guilty, so I told him I’ll lose the MSL game the next day and amend it.”
After that, Jin again lost a game by making control errors according to the agreement, and again got 3 000 000 won in the same method as the price for losing.
On July 09 2010 10:19 Ideas wrote: why are the MSL games vs kal mentioned at all? they werent mentioned at all in the article and now everyone think he dropped them on purpose?
Jin said: “Even though I know the opponent’s opening, it’s still possible to lose in the macro game, I can’t guarantee that he won’t lose money.” But he also said: “After hearing that I caused him to lose money, I’m a bit guilty, so I told him I’ll lose the MSL game the next day and amend it.”
After that, Jin again lost a game by making control errors according to the agreement, and again got 3 000 000 won in the same method as the price for losing.
I feel Hwasin just thought of doing it ONCE. Because Savior say, I do it do keke.
Ah, the 2nd time is a little bit different. Savior told Hwasin build order. But why do the opponent do not make micro mistake and lose intentionally? Maybe it is just that opponent do not play fake matches and Savior know his build order because teammate?
Ah, Savior expected Hwasin to win but he lost. So Savior said u have to pay me back somehow. Hwasin feeling guilty, wanted to repay him somehow. Ah, of course Hwasin will not pay him in cash. So he decided, do it again. And earn easy money at the same time returning favor
I'm pretty disappointed with Hwasin for succumbing to this. He was one of my favourite Terran players. I also do feel bad for Leta as the others in this thread have said. Getting backstabbed by your team...
As for this Tossgirl thing. I personally do not find her very hot, but that's just my opinion. I would not call her ugly though, I just find that mean to ever consider.
It's not that miniscule. $2500 is like 1/7th the average yearly wage, just for throwing a single game. Adjusted it would be like $6.5k in the US. If you think that's a miniscule amount for throwing a single game, then you must be one of those awesome internet guys on $200k/yr. After tax.
nope, its actually more than twice the average paycheck in serbia. but its miniscule when you look at the risk involved, and how much shit youre getting yourself into. they WILL blackmail you when you do it once, and when you get figured out you cant do progaming at all anymore and may wind up in jail.
On July 09 2010 19:43 Lonyo wrote: It's not that miniscule. $2500 is like 1/7th the average yearly wage, just for throwing a single game. Adjusted it would be like $6.5k in the US. If you think that's a miniscule amount for throwing a single game, then you must be one of those awesome internet guys on $200k/yr. After tax.
The reason it's so silly is because they could have just circumvented a huge portion of the risk by simply finding a proxy to bet on themselves while making a much larger profit. If you're already going to throw the game you may as well bet a huge amount of cash on it since your odds are approaching 100%. Dealing with shady characters in-person for $3k is not only a great way to get caught, but is also horribly inefficient and speaks of poor macro skills.
Poor naive Hwasin ]= I could understand his thinking process when Savior offered him the deal. I mean when you think about it, it's Savior, so Hwasin probably thought it wasn't that bad.
Second time, Hwasin just caved in, he was already eliminated and Savior came in at the opportune time. Savior knew how to persuade him >< since he's already eliminated, why not lose intentionally and get more money, you're out so who cares?
The last time, Hwasin felt bad and maybe even afraid of what might happen to him after he made that guy lose 20m won. You're already in deep once you've started participating in these underhanded activities, a simple apology won't suffice. Pretty hard to just say no more match fixing and hope nothing happens to you if you ask me.
Fuck you Savior, you really did destroy everyone in 2009, I hope you fucking rot you piece of shit. I feel like the majority of the 11 got trapped, while still guilty, they where vulnerable to this sort of crime.
And look what this mess did to fucking Sang Ho... It makes me sick.
On July 08 2010 16:39 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Jin first got the suggestion of match-fixing in the beginning of December 2009. On a chat in Battle.Net, Ma X told him: “I’ve been troubled recently. A hyung I know is doing match-fixing, he wants me to lose on purpose, and I don’t know if I should do it.” That’s when Jin first learned of match-fixing. Ma also said: “That hyung (a soccer player) is doing bets. If you throw a game, you can get rewarded. I was hesitant at first too, but I did iti think i will do (*) in the end.” He then asked Jin: “Do you have any games?”
Jin replied: “I have an OSL game, I’m already eliminated.” Ma then said: “If I did it, you should do it too.I will do, so you do it too. okay? (**) If you lose, you can get 3 000 000 won.”
After that, Jin, according to the agreement, lost the game on purpose by making control errors. The day after the game, Ma gave Jin the money at a café near Jin’s dorm.
Jin’s second fixed game was slightly different. The day before the SPL game on 2009 December 30th, Ma texted Jin and told him the opponent is going to play 2 factory management, but Jin still lost the game. After that, Ma said: “The hyung I know bet on you winning, and he lost 20 000 000, all because you lost. You should pay him back somehow. Do you have any games?”
Jin said: “Even though I know the opponent’s opening, it’s still possible to lose in the macro game, I can’t guarantee that he won’t lose money.” But he also said: “After hearing that I caused him to lose money, I’m a bit guilty sorry. so I told himwhen i was suggested that I lose the MSL game the next day and amend it, i agreed with it.”
After that, Jin again lost a game by making control errors according to the agreement, and again got 3 000 000 won in the same method as the price for losing.
Also, 2 days before a game on 2010 January 19th against Park X, which he won, Ma texted him: “Don’t worry, someone will take care of it.” Then, he relayed some information that Won X gave him.Jin stated that later he had known that Ma received all those infomation through a progamer Won (***).
* i'm curious if Ma had fixed his own game, which is not clear in the original sentence. ** same as above. *** i was confused with the translation and wanted to make the fact clear.
On July 08 2010 16:52 HaruHaru wrote: i wonder if match fixing had to do with tossgirl breaking up with hwasin :/ that would have been a greater loss than his career imo
lol im pretty sure hwasin can easily get women 1000x hotter than tossgirl. not in jail though...
Sorry, I'd be hard pressed to find somebody 1000x hotter than tossgirl
Tossgirl is not hot at all... Look at pictures of her. She looks like a middle-aged woman with too much makeup. She was definitely cute as a kid, but the years have not been kind to her.
Middle aged women can be hot, and tossgirl definitely still qualifies. She's well above the mean, you only date supermodels?
I really don't like this kind of argument. Reductio Ad Ridiculum. It's where you extend my argument to ridiculous proportions, and then you make fun of the result.
Let's say that I don't like to drink water. Then, you might say, "WTF?! If you never drink water, you'll die in 3 days! You're so stupid." Just because I don't drink water doesn't mean I have gone to the extreme to restrict any form of water intake.
Just because I said TossGirl wasn't hot doesn't mean I automatically date supermodels. That's ridiculous. (Or, Reductio Ad Ridiculum). TossGirl isn't hot. There are plenty of girls in Korea hotter than her. I have dated girls better looking than TossGirl. I have never dated a supermodel.
agree i dont think she is hot she is kinnda old now.
Are half the people on this forum 12 year old brats? She's just one year older than I am. Since when is 25 old? Quit watching MTV's My Super Sweet Sixteen and check back in with real life.
Are half the people on this forum 12 year old brats? She's just one year older than I am. Since when is 25 old? Quit watching MTV's My Super Sweet Sixteen and check back in with real life.
So fucking true. I'm 28 and played dota the other day and some little fool tried to smack talk me and kept saying 'kid' 'son' etc. I just laughed and told him to get some manners and mentioned my age when he asked.
People under 50 are not old. Seriously -_-. It's not relative (hence I chose a decent age not just 5-10 years older than I am) it's just sense.
On July 08 2010 16:52 HaruHaru wrote: i wonder if match fixing had to do with tossgirl breaking up with hwasin :/ that would have been a greater loss than his career imo
lol im pretty sure hwasin can easily get women 1000x hotter than tossgirl. not in jail though...
Sorry, I'd be hard pressed to find somebody 1000x hotter than tossgirl
Tossgirl is not hot at all... Look at pictures of her. She looks like a middle-aged woman with too much makeup. She was definitely cute as a kid, but the years have not been kind to her.
Middle aged women can be hot, and tossgirl definitely still qualifies. She's well above the mean, you only date supermodels?
I really don't like this kind of argument. Reductio Ad Ridiculum. It's where you extend my argument to ridiculous proportions, and then you make fun of the result.
Let's say that I don't like to drink water. Then, you might say, "WTF?! If you never drink water, you'll die in 3 days! You're so stupid." Just because I don't drink water doesn't mean I have gone to the extreme to restrict any form of water intake.
Just because I said TossGirl wasn't hot doesn't mean I automatically date supermodels. That's ridiculous. (Or, Reductio Ad Ridiculum). TossGirl isn't hot. There are plenty of girls in Korea hotter than her. I have dated girls better looking than TossGirl. I have never dated a supermodel.
I disagree with you. I don't believe it's reductio ad ridiculum at all. You said she looks like a "middle-aged woman" which is both extreme and untrue. Then when someone attacks this overly exaggerated stance with the simple premise that your standards are set too high you turn around and accuse him of hyperbole.
He stated that middle-aged women can be hot. True. He stated that toss-girl is above the mean in terms of looks. Most would agree with this.
If we define hotness as above average through to exceedingly gorgeous than we should have no problem with his reasoning. If you decide that hotness is only someone who is exceedingly beautiful and then state that you have dated girls hotter than tossgirl, good for you I say. I love hearing fellow nerds do well - but scarecrow's comment is still valid.
Here's a tip: quoting your 1st year philosophy classes back at people doesn't improve your argument. You did philosophy, maybe you even majored in it. So what. Most of tl are in uni or are graduates. It's condescending to quote this stuff to people.
Are there ever actual hints to who Tossgirl is dating or is all just rampant fanboy gossip. If there was an interview where this it was mentioned she was dating ok, but otherwise it's just silly because it can come up when any STX player is mentioned. Especially since talking about Tossgirl always distracts people from what is really important, that the players we liked can be scum. I remember hearing rumors that Tossgirl was dating Calm a year ago or so. Every STX player expect July has a chance of getting rumored to be dating Tossgirl, CuteAngel for next boyfriend!
On July 10 2010 15:18 BlackMagister wrote: Are there ever actual hints to who Tossgirl is dating or is all just rampant fanboy gossip. If there was an interview where this it was mentioned she was dating ok, but otherwise it's just silly because it can come up when any STX player is mentioned. Especially since talking about Tossgirl always distracts people from what is really important, that the players we liked can be scum. I remember hearing rumors that Tossgirl was dating Calm a year ago or so. Every STX player expect July has a chance of getting rumored to be dating Tossgirl, CuteAngel for next boyfriend!
I remember an interview a while back where she said she's never had a boyfriend and doesn't even talk to anyone in STX except for Shuttle
The problem is that you guys think Tossgirl is a normal female. Given that underneath her glossy female exterior is a brooding zealot ready to give her life for Aiur, the normal conventions of dating don't apply to this special flower which needs to be gently caressed with extra reaver harass.
On July 08 2010 22:47 krndandaman wrote: tossgirl isn't hot shes alright though
i second the statement!! haha. shes not "hot" by means of having a great figure and all, but she's hot in the sense that she's somewhat OK with the boys(being able to play with them in SC) and shes really looks nice (she's not too beautiful or but shes not in the range of ugly). =p
and hey shes only 25 yrs old. thats not old!!! some of the most beautiful people are in their mid 20s to their late 30s so how can you call her old?? unless your 15 yrs old. haha
Are half the people on this forum 12 year old brats? She's just one year older than I am. Since when is 25 old? Quit watching MTV's My Super Sweet Sixteen and check back in with real life.
Good job, finding a photo from when she was a teenager. (Heavily photoshopped too).
On July 08 2010 16:52 HaruHaru wrote: i wonder if match fixing had to do with tossgirl breaking up with hwasin :/ that would have been a greater loss than his career imo
lol im pretty sure hwasin can easily get women 1000x hotter than tossgirl. not in jail though...
Sorry, I'd be hard pressed to find somebody 1000x hotter than tossgirl
Tossgirl is not hot at all... Look at pictures of her. She looks like a middle-aged woman with too much makeup. She was definitely cute as a kid, but the years have not been kind to her.
Middle aged women can be hot, and tossgirl definitely still qualifies. She's well above the mean, you only date supermodels?
I really don't like this kind of argument. Reductio Ad Ridiculum. It's where you extend my argument to ridiculous proportions, and then you make fun of the result.
Let's say that I don't like to drink water. Then, you might say, "WTF?! If you never drink water, you'll die in 3 days! You're so stupid." Just because I don't drink water doesn't mean I have gone to the extreme to restrict any form of water intake.
Just because I said TossGirl wasn't hot doesn't mean I automatically date supermodels. That's ridiculous. (Or, Reductio Ad Ridiculum). TossGirl isn't hot. There are plenty of girls in Korea hotter than her. I have dated girls better looking than TossGirl. I have never dated a supermodel.
I disagree with you. I don't believe it's reductio ad ridiculum at all. You said she looks like a "middle-aged woman" which is both extreme and untrue. Then when someone attacks this overly exaggerated stance with the simple premise that your standards are set too high you turn around and accuse him of hyperbole.
He stated that middle-aged women can be hot. True. He stated that toss-girl is above the mean in terms of looks. Most would agree with this.
If we define hotness as above average through to exceedingly gorgeous than we should have no problem with his reasoning. If you decide that hotness is only someone who is exceedingly beautiful and then state that you have dated girls hotter than tossgirl, good for you I say. I love hearing fellow nerds do well - but scarecrow's comment is still valid.
Here's a tip: quoting your 1st year philosophy classes back at people doesn't improve your argument. You did philosophy, maybe you even majored in it. So what. Most of tl are in uni or are graduates. It's condescending to quote this stuff to people.
Wait, who said there was an argument over the middle-aged part? The argument was about him saying, "do you only date supermodels?" Which is ridiculous. He was trying to disprove me by implying, "Do you only date supermodels? No? Then how can you be a critic on beauty?" Anybody can critique beauty.
I said "Tossgirl looks like a middle-aged woman." When you say that someone looked middle-aged, you're definitely not saying she looks hot. You're saying she looks unattractive and old.
Certainly, a middle-aged woman isn't necessarily ugly. Some middle-aged women don't look their age. (Key: Do not look middle-aged.)
And listen to yourself. "If we define hotness as ABOVE AVERAGE..."?? I'm sure "hot" means exceedingly gorgeous all the time. It's not "lukewarm and above".
Question: Are trying to say that you're some kind of professor or super-genius in philosophy? Still, please carefully re-read what the original argument was. You wrote too much stuff on the non-relevant.
I know this has been discussed to death, but whenever I watch the game between Hwasin and Luxury, I'm absolutely stupefied, just like Kim Carrier expressed in that talk show. It was so blatantly fixed, it makes my stomach turn. Everything from the overlord pretending not to see the SCV, to the random "psychic" 3-drone pull toward nothing, to the bad placement of the bunker (wtf? hwasin was supposed to be getting a free-win), to the terrible use of the drones. All the battle micro by Luxury was clearly not A-team level. It's not like they had a lot of units to control.
Did they seriously think anyone was going to buy that? The whole thing is so fucking stupid. Same goes for the Hwasin-Yarnc game. His floating factory was a dead giveaway. No one in their right mind would try to cross that bridge pure SK terran vs lurkers without a single tank. You can see Hwasin sweating in the booth, stalling, letting Yarnc get further and further ahead without stopping him, wishing Yarnc would just come and finish him off. But Yarnc never did, it just dragged on painfully.
Re-watching some of the games that were fixed, I got a little taste of why Kim Carrier was so furious and swearing in front of the camera.
Also, why are some people looking at Hwasin as a victim? He was the one giving testimony, no shit he's going to portray himself as a victim. Yeah, he might have been sucked into the whole match fixing thing, and while that's super duper shitty, he had a choice as well.
if any of you know her sister 서지승 she is literally 50000x better. funnily enough i could say she's a bit more successful than her sister, starred in a few dramas and modeled.
On July 13 2010 14:46 GTR wrote: if any of you know her sister 서지승 she is literally 50000x better. funnily enough i could say she's a bit more successful than her sister, starred in a few dramas and modeled.
On July 13 2010 21:47 Qzy wrote: Would love to see a match where both players are paid to loose..
... Lol.
IIRC there was some speculation that that happened in the third game of the savior vs upmagic Bo3: savior is trying to lose but 9 pools and scouts a 14cc first, so there's no way he can lose without making it obvious, hence all the weird facial expressions:
Ma said: “The hyung I know bet on you winning, and he lost 20 000 000, all because you lost. You should pay him back somehow. Do you have any games?”
This is so bogus. Unless this was more threatening, I can't see this making much sense. I don't think anyone should sympathise with Jin because clearly he's not above matchmaking. Had Ma said something like "Do it or else" or something along those lines, Jin might have felt pressure to 'pay him back'.
But I mean, really? What sort of idiot says things like "My friend bet money on you, and you lost so he lost money. You should pay him back" ?
Ma said: “The hyung I know bet on you winning, and he lost 20 000 000, all because you lost. You should pay him back somehow. Do you have any games?”
This is so bogus. Unless this was more threatening, I can't see this making much sense. I don't think anyone should sympathise with Jin because clearly he's not above matchmaking. Had Ma said something like "Do it or else" or something along those lines, Jin might have felt pressure to 'pay him back'.
But I mean, really? What sort of idiot says things like "My friend bet money on you, and you lost so he lost money. You should pay him back" ?
1 - There might be something lost in translation. 2 - It's actually quite clearly threatening as it is. Euphemisms like that are classics in corruption ("He'd be very sad if you..." or "We're going to ask you a favor")
I'm not saying Hwasin is not guilty, but once you step into such a spiral, this is exactly why you cant really quit, unless you man up and confess to authorities asap, but then again - there's the hope of pulling it off without ever having to do that.
On July 10 2010 18:39 iCDNME wrote: The problem is that you guys think Tossgirl is a normal female. Given that underneath her glossy female exterior is a brooding marine ready to shoot anyone, the normal conventions of dating don't apply to this special flower which needs to be gently caressed with extra vulture harass.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/issue/1278496835_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s211/Smu666ler/vito_corleone.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.desda.science.ru.nl/starcraft/tossgirl3.jpg)
here is your true god![[image loading]](http://cfs2.flvs.daum.net/files/63/92/17/83/8537547/thumb.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.donga.com/photo/news/200611/200611250016.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://devnewsimg.mydaily.co.kr/2010/02/05/201002051851423359_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://goimage.freechal.com/Data/2009/01/09/N2009010909162652701.jpg)
You wrote too much stuff on the non-relevant.![[image loading]](http://kr.img.image.yahoo.com/ygi/gallery/img/c3/14/49083c42fdf33.jpg)
