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266: level 1 upgrades
298: level 2 upgrades
330: level 3 upgrades
context: most upgrades/research things are 80. the longest things besides these level upgrades are singularity charge 166, robo upgrades 166, energy upgrades 166, ocular implants 166, scout upgrades 166, arbiter 160, ventral sacs 160, carrier 140. also for context, hatch 120, cc 120, nexus 120, spire 120, greater spire morph 120. ok, now, the point:
these are the build times staredit will tell you, btw, which supposedly translate to 1 second in NORMAL speed. so i dont know what it is in fast speed. so basically, a level 1 upgrade takes over 3 times longer than most upgrades.
just seems weird, i guess they didnt like how fast people upgraded in war2, and figured that sc had more units, so upgrades were more significant. but did they go a little overboard making level 1 266 build time?
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war 3 fast upgs also 
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i have always wondered that, and that's what turned me off to upgrades before i knew about progaming
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absolutely no
that's the whole point of the upgrades in StarCraft (and why they're soo good)
when u upgrade , you invest in the long run , not in the near future (like war3 or most other strategy games)
i definetely like it , as it adds to the strategy (-risks) involved
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Build 2 nexus's sequentially before you can upgrade +1 attack :O
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yes iloveoo but dont u think they could be slightly shorter and still be interesting? nothing else in thne game is nearly as long term as upgrades.. not even close
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Norway28914 Posts
I think it's pretty much perfect :O
probably because I'm accustomed to it though. if it had been half what it is all along im sure I wouldve liked that as well. but I think it's very well balanced as it is, and shit like +1 zealot rush would perhaps be too powerful vs zerg if upgrades became significantly faster.
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Upgrades taking so long adds to the strategery (Thanks GWBush) of the game. If they were much shorter, you could recover more quickly and more easily from bad recon. (i.e. gol grades/cloak for carriers, etc)
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i relly dont think it adds to the game when it takes so long. early upgrade strategies are too slow to pay off, so you end up upgrading whenever you can spare the mineral/gas, pretty much every game, nothing strategic about it. what exactly is it worth delaying to get an upgrade? lair, speed, lurk, a sunken? nothing till u are at the point where you're pretty much macroing for the rest of the game wouldnt 166, 200, etc. be slow enough? 266 is so "out there", 298, 330...
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On April 10 2004 20:33 STIMEY d okgm fish wrote:
i relly dont think it adds to the game when it takes so long. early upgrade strategies are too slow to pay off, so you end up upgrading whenever you can spare the mineral/gas, pretty much every game, nothing strategic about it. what exactly is it worth delaying to get an upgrade? lair, speed, lurk, a sunken? nothing till u are at the point where you're pretty much macroing for the rest of the game wouldnt 166, 200, etc. be slow enough? 266 is so "out there", 298, 330...
you've never seen boxer go engie bay before academy, and have 3/0 before zerg can add muta to his lurkers? huk
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uh lvl 3 weapons.... "huk" that's 894 build time not to mention minerals, gas, fac/port/sci. if boxer does that before zerg can add muta to his lurkers it has nothing to do with the speed of upgrades
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I totally understand what stimey's getting at, but I agree that upgrades should definitely be long
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if they were shorter they'd still be very long
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why didn't they just make everything 50 "units" shorter? Why aren't the sc units just a few millimeters smaller?
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rugbug, lvl 1 upgrade is 100 more than the nearest things at 166 roughly a +160% step up. there's nothing else in the game gapped so large in the time it takes, nothing close to a 100 or a +160% gap. i kno a lot of ppl think whatever the current ver is absolutely perfect, but can anyone see anything added to the game by any change whatsoever? those are the people i'm asking what they think :|
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I think they could possibly be shorter. I was once developping a strategy tvp where the idea would be to get fast upgrades and throw everything you've got at the toss within 10 minutes. This would be to counter the type of player that would start at 3 and then expo at 12 on temple, then his nat and just macro you. It would be a quick win. - 3 facs / 2 shop / vults - tanks - gollies - some rines - scvs - +1 attack for metal. I think that would do a great deal.
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If its not broken, why fix it?
Upgrade system is 99.9% perfect. The remaining .1%, its insignificant, and thus not worthy to discuss.
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horse and buggy wasn't broke either.
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EPT
