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On December 26 2009 05:12 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 05:10 Chen wrote:On December 26 2009 05:05 Slow Motion wrote:
I like how someone is actually arguing Flash should have chosen a different strat for "showmanship". Imagine if Flash lost to Jaedong by using some crazy firebat strat, and then said in interviews, "I could have beaten JD easily but winning wasn't my main goal, it was to entertain."
How shitty would that make JD and Flash fans feel? I love it when my player beats another who's playing 100% to win. If my guy won, but I knew the other dude wasn't playing seriously, that cheapens my guy's win. The more JD fans are disrespecting Flash here, the more they're actually spitting on JD. Boxer's said his main goal is to entertain the fans, which is why he does crazy shit like nukes and valks ...yeah, Boxer respects the fans too much to cheese in a highly anticipated series like Flash did. I wish Flash could be more like Boxer.
.....Boxer v. Yellow says hi. In that highly-anticipated semifinal, Boxer infamously/famously bunker-rushed Yellow 3 times in a row to knock Yellow out.
Ironically enough, the same argument of "8 rax is imba" was made in that thread too.
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God... I hated Shine for beating Stork till I read all the posts bashing Shine for the dumbest possible reasons with the worst possible hate. Its funny how if Jaedong did the same plays, most people would be like "omg sexy!!", "fcking beast", BONJWA", "aggresive, love it"...
Now I think I have become a huge fan of Shine. The new legend killer, destroying archons with mutas, responsible for single handily crushing the hopes of all that is Khan and T1, the man who silenced 700 siren like screams of unwavering fans in one fell swoop while creating a typhoon of misguided hate, disrespect, and disgust online of now disgraced fanboys.
Modest, intelligent, and articulated by day, he is the prime role model for pro gamers. But once he is in the booth, he becomes the ultimate villain. Fans stream in online and into stadiums to see him get crushed, but the only thing at the end of the day that is crushed is their hopes and happiness.
I love it. You love to hate him and I love to watch ravenous fanboys turn into disgusting and unreasonable trolls. I would have trolled Shine with the passion of a 1000 suns if I didn't read all that stupid shit you guys wrote, so thanks I guess for showing me the dark side.
The fall of heroes, the rise of the great villain.
Shine for OSL.
gl
hf
gg
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On December 26 2009 04:32 dukethegold wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 04:27 dcberkeley wrote:On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion. Yeah, cus Flash gives a shit what you want for Christmas right? No, but he should give a shit about the hundreds of thousands if not millions of Korean fans who tuned in on Christmas just for Flash v.s. Jaedong. Flash might as well give a shit about Jaedong practicing his ass off for a good game against him as well as a sign of respect. Flash was one game up over Jaedong. He was by no means in a desperate situation. Surely for the sake of showmanship, show the audience a better game! Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 04:21 Zoler wrote:On December 26 2009 04:00 dukethegold wrote:
Even against all odds, I will root for Movie. I am anti-Shine fan for life.
Flash v.s. Shine OSL final would be almost worse than a ZvZ final. Almost.
BTW, my jaw dropped when Flash 8 rax bunker rushed Jaedong. WHO THE HELL DOES A CHEESE AGAINST YOUR STRONGEST RIVAL IN FRONT OF THE BIGGEST AUDIENCE ON CHRISTMAS?
Also, screw those guys who claim Flash's strategy isn't cheese. There is no dictionary definition for cheese. There is no wikipedia entry on starcraft "cheese". It is CHEESE when the player pulls off a cheesy move to end the game in an anti-climatic fashion. What? Early game aggression is way more exciting than your ordinary expand, wait 10 min, start moving out. Early aggression is exciting, yes. But one that ends the game in an anti-climatic fashion, no. The fate of the entire Protoss race and the succession of the Legend of Fall now rest on the shoulders of Movie...
Shit, stop crying like a little bitch. Flash won fair and square and at the end of the day, Flash is still in the OSL and JD is out. So get used to it you whiner.
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On December 26 2009 05:31 lone_hydra wrote:
God... I hated Shine for beating Stork till I read all the posts bashing Shine for the dumbest possible reasons with the worst possible hate. Its funny how if Jaedong did the same plays, most people would be like "omg sexy!!", "fcking beast", BONJWA", "aggresive, love it"...
Now I think I have become a huge fan of Shine. The new legend killer, destroying archons with mutas, responsible for single handily crushing the hopes of all that is Khan and T1, the man who silenced 700 siren like screams of unwavering fans in one fell swoop while creating a typhoon of misguided hate, disrespect, and disgust online of now disgraced fanboys.
Modest, intelligent, and articulated by day, he is the prime role model for pro gamers. But once he is in the booth, he becomes the ultimate villain. Fans stream in online and into stadiums to see him get crushed, but the only thing at the end of the day that is crushed is their hopes and happiness.
I love it. You love to hate him and I love to watch ravenous fanboys turn into disgusting and unreasonable trolls. I would have trolled Shine with the passion of a 1000 suns if I didn't read all that stupid shit you guys wrote, so thanks I guess for showing me the dark side.
The fall of heroes, the rise of the great villain.
Shine for OSL.
gl
hf
gg
You're taking his mutalisk control a little bit out of proportion here.
People hate the fool because he took out stork using mutalisks (just about the only thing he CAN do). It's fine, Shine really deserved that win but his ZvT is so untested it's laughable and assuming he wins against Movie and Flash beats Calm... how is that final going to look?
Horrible. It'll be a one sided rape of mass proportions. Shine's very strong mutalisks are going to fail hard against Flash who has been handling mutalisks with zero effort all but one time in the last 20 some odd games.
It's like being robbed of the only good possible final, that's the thing here. People get annoyed at that.
Though I hate Shine for other reason...mainly that he's a one trick pony.
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Shine isn't a one trick pony. He can steal games off better players with cheese, but again its beating better players. His ZvP is pretty damned good because he can throw in things that guys like Stork and Bisu aren't ready for.
On another note, I seriously think shine should be nicknamed the "terrorist" (fantasy's nickname). He has terrorized the star league brackets more than fantasy has.
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On December 26 2009 05:12 Rostam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 05:10 Chen wrote:On December 26 2009 05:05 Slow Motion wrote:
I like how someone is actually arguing Flash should have chosen a different strat for "showmanship". Imagine if Flash lost to Jaedong by using some crazy firebat strat, and then said in interviews, "I could have beaten JD easily but winning wasn't my main goal, it was to entertain."
How shitty would that make JD and Flash fans feel? I love it when my player beats another who's playing 100% to win. If my guy won, but I knew the other dude wasn't playing seriously, that cheapens my guy's win. The more JD fans are disrespecting Flash here, the more they're actually spitting on JD. Boxer's said his main goal is to entertain the fans, which is why he does crazy shit like nukes and valks ...yeah, Boxer respects the fans too much to cheese in a highly anticipated series like Flash did. I wish Flash could be more like Boxer.
That's mainly because Flash is still young and hungry. The Boxer that bunker rushed Yellow 3x in a row is different from the Boxer that went nukes versus Killer. I think Flash will probably mellow the same way once he gets a few titles under his belt.
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I watched the finals drunk with some friends, so I couldn't keep up with the TL thread/livestream stuff, but now I'm home and oh man oh man, the tears! The TEARS!
DELICIOUS!
A few points:
- Flash almost definitely would have stomped JD in a long game, anyway.
- Flash doing 8rax was brilliant because he hasn't done a build like that in so long, and JD probably thought "Well, he can beat me with a safe economic build, why would he do that?"
- Zergs in the future will have to shit bricks wondering if Flash is going to bunker rush them; they might hesitate to go 12hatch so often. It's a move that will pay dividends in the future for Flash as well.
So you JD fans can cry all you want, but you know that you'd be going 'OMFG JAEDONG IS A FUCKING GENIUS' if he successfully 4pooled Flash. And 8rax isn't even close to 4pool level of cheesiness, either.
About Shine vs Stork, I'm really sad for Stork since he's my 2nd favorite player. The 2nd match was an awesome game by Stork. I'm upset he lost too, but there's no need to take it out on Shine. The kid probably works hard, and his grandma was there at the match, that was cute.
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Well, whatever. I realize that the spirit of competition is to win no matter what the cost and I applaud Flash for sending Jaedong out of the OSL in an anti-climatic fashion.
Now, I hope you guys are all rooting for Movie, because a Flash v.s. Shine final will be a one sided ROFLstomp. Shine recently lost against Hwasin 0-2 in the MSL. I doubt he is going anywhere when he fights against Flash.
And yes, I recognize that Shine has skill. He is a legit player, against Protoss and Zergs anyway.
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Well the P>T>Z>P chain seems to be at full effect in OSL (at least this round), but that's SC so can't be hating it so much.
Still, Stork =( this was your OSL to take. I guess carrying Khan on his shoulders is weighing on him.
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It could have been cheesy on other maps considering it was a 7 RAX not 8 rax. But on heartbreak you'll always get the overlord so its not really a cheese there.
If opponent 9pools and loses first overlord he's pretty much behind aswell.
And why is it that whenever a terran does an agressive build its considered cheese, but when zerg 9pools its not? Grrr
its not like you pull any scvs if there is a 9pool...
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Thanks for the translation. You guys do an awesome job.
The Chinese translations are often too terse.
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On December 26 2009 06:39 StylishVODs wrote:
It could have been cheesy on other maps considering it was a 7 RAX not 8 rax. But on heartbreak you'll always get the overlord so its not really a cheese there.
If opponent 9pools and loses first overlord he's pretty much behind aswell.
And why is it that whenever a terran does an agressive build its considered cheese, but when zerg 9pools its not? Grrr
its not like you pull any scvs if there is a 9pool...
Exactly!
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On December 26 2009 05:12 Ikonn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 26 2009 05:10 Chen wrote:On December 26 2009 05:05 Slow Motion wrote:
I like how someone is actually arguing Flash should have chosen a different strat for "showmanship". Imagine if Flash lost to Jaedong by using some crazy firebat strat, and then said in interviews, "I could have beaten JD easily but winning wasn't my main goal, it was to entertain."
How shitty would that make JD and Flash fans feel? I love it when my player beats another who's playing 100% to win. If my guy won, but I knew the other dude wasn't playing seriously, that cheapens my guy's win. The more JD fans are disrespecting Flash here, the more they're actually spitting on JD. Boxer's said his main goal is to entertain the fans, which is why he does crazy shit like nukes and valks I doubt Boxer would do crazy shit like nukes and valks in an OSL Ro8 against the best player in the world.
Actually after reading his state of the union on gaming and the loss of fans, i'm sure he would go out of his way to make it entertaining. Flash is fine doing w/e it takes to win, it just sucks that it was pretty much THE worst it could of ended up. The game was over 1min in when the ovie died and flash pulled 4 scvs off the line.
At least stork - shine series delieverd but the fan fav lost that one. The real entity at fault is the OSL for matching up flash and JD in the ro8 and not ro4 or better.
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On December 26 2009 06:21 Fangster wrote:
Shine isn't a one trick pony. He can steal games off better players with cheese, but again its beating better players. His ZvP is pretty damned good because he can throw in things that guys like Stork and Bisu aren't ready for.
On another note, I seriously think shine should be nicknamed the "terrorist" (fantasy's nickname). He has terrorized the star league brackets more than fantasy has.
His ZvP is good because of his Mutalisk control. Once that fails and the inherent advantage a zerg player has in early game versus protoss is gone Shine is like a chicken with his head cut off.
His ZvZ is decent again because of Mutalisk contorl.
In ZvT he won't be able to rely on Mutalisk control like he can with other matchups simply because a 2 Hatch Muta all-in rarely works against Flash and when it does it'll only work once in a blue moon. So what's he going to do? His army management is pretty bad as proven v Stork game 2 and such.
I just don't see him being anything better than "okay"
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Flash is genious. He knows exactly when to cheese of not.
1. vs Bisu in Daum
2. vs Stork in OSL finals (on Katrina)
3. now vs Jaedong.
His ability to play mindgames to tear apart his opponent is just amazing.
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Shine's play was absolutely genius, I love this current crop of aggressive zergs, they make very tense and exciting games without all the strategic subtleties that I miss anyways.
I'm really glad Flash cheesed Jaedong. Finally he gets revenge for that failed 14 cc vs 9pool game he lost to JD a while ago. I've always felt like JD was a terrible face for progaming, his personality is just way too soft for a champion. Glad to see a real player like Flash come and manhandle this pussy.
To all the Calm fans out there, sorry but he's gonna get his nuts stomped by Flash. There hasn't been TvZ this good(relative to the scene) since the days of oov's pre-July streak. Shine will crush Movie, and then Flash will crush Shine in the finals for an OSL trophy he so rightfully deserves.
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On December 26 2009 07:44 lisakki wrote:
Shine's play was absolutely genius, I love this current crop of aggressive zergs, they make very tense and exciting games without all the strategic subtleties that I miss anyways.
I'm really glad Flash cheesed Jaedong. Finally he gets revenge for that failed 14 cc vs 9pool game he lost to JD a while ago. I've always felt like JD was a terrible face for progaming, his personality is just way too soft for a champion. Glad to see a real player like Flash come and manhandle this pussy.
To all the Calm fans out there, sorry but he's gonna get his nuts stomped by Flash. There hasn't been TvZ this good(relative to the scene) since the days of oov's pre-July streak. Shine will crush Movie, and then Flash will crush Shine in the finals for an OSL trophy he so rightfully deserves.
Yea, jaedong sure is a pussy, two osl's in a year, what a bitch. Lets hate the players on a more personal level, because its intelligent.
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On December 26 2009 07:44 lisakki wrote:
Shine's play was absolutely genius, I love this current crop of aggressive zergs, they make very tense and exciting games without all the strategic subtleties that I miss anyways.
I'm really glad Flash cheesed Jaedong. Finally he gets revenge for that failed 14 cc vs 9pool game he lost to JD a while ago. I've always felt like JD was a terrible face for progaming, his personality is just way too soft for a champion. Glad to see a real player like Flash come and manhandle this pussy.
To all the Calm fans out there, sorry but he's gonna get his nuts stomped by Flash. There hasn't been TvZ this good(relative to the scene) since the days of oov's pre-July streak. Shine will crush Movie, and then Flash will crush Shine in the finals for an OSL trophy he so rightfully deserves.
what the fuck lol?
+ Show Spoiler +
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On December 26 2009 07:44 lisakki wrote:
Shine's play was absolutely genius, I love this current crop of aggressive zergs, they make very tense and exciting games without all the strategic subtleties that I miss anyways.
I'm really glad Flash cheesed Jaedong. Finally he gets revenge for that failed 14 cc vs 9pool game he lost to JD a while ago. I've always felt like JD was a terrible face for progaming, his personality is just way too soft for a champion. Glad to see a real player like Flash come and manhandle this pussy.
To all the Calm fans out there, sorry but he's gonna get his nuts stomped by Flash. There hasn't been TvZ this good(relative to the scene) since the days of oov's pre-July streak. Shine will crush Movie, and then Flash will crush Shine in the finals for an OSL trophy he so rightfully deserves.
What the fuck is this? What a hateful, arbitrary and subjective statement that is an affront to everything jaedong has done for starcraft and all the fans he has brought in. You are clearly a tool and should stop posting.
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On December 26 2009 02:04 dasanivan wrote:
boxer pulling scvs to bunker rush is where the term cheese came from in the first place. without scvs it would not have been a cheese rush, as jaedong would have been able to block it.
i thought its called cheese cause people like to whine about it
AKA a play on people like wine with cheese..
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EPT
