ret @ Courage #2 - Page 8

On June 08 2009 22:53 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:


lol i'm gonna respond to this one post because i picked it out of a crowd. sorry Idle you are the whipping boy today

First let me say that my opinion of Daniel Lee has not changed. There was a positive in Daniel Lee having the balls to freak out mid-broadcast just because he was pissed off that equaled out the negative of Daniel Lee acting like a stupid fucking child and saying a bunch of unsubstantiated bullshit about Idra. Allow me to explain why this is unsubstantiated bullshit.

Once upon there was a starcraft tournament for North American players. A wondrous prize was announced, a tip to Korea to live with the eSTRO team and become a real progamer! A young man named Idra entered, and he just so happened to win. Fancy that! Out of a field of competitors with equal chances to win this prize based entirely around their gameplay in that particular tournament, Idra was chosen. Daniel Lee chose Idra from 16 players.

But all was not as it seemed in the StarCraft motherland. You know what Idra did when he got to Korea? He played on iccup. That's all. Once the novelty of a white guy in the room wore off, all of the eSTRO B team players refused to play with Idra. This is well documented on TL, go look around. Do a little fucking research, know what you're talking about before you open your goddamned mouth.

If Daniel Lee is Idra's savior, the man who saved Idra from the horrible clutches of nonkorean newbiness, what should Daniel Lee have done about the situation Idra found himself in, playing idiots on iccup, lacking any alternative because his new teammates wouldn't play him? Daniel Lee should have done something about that, if Daniel Lee is Idra's savior and not the engineer of a PR stunt. Daniel Lee didn't do a goddamned thing.

You want to know who Idra's savior was? Sean motherfucking Oh. Yeah, the CJ coach. After Idra was given a license, something that happens all the fuckin' time, as each team can give a license to two players per year if they want those players on the team and they haven't won courage, a trade happens. Idra certainly did not beg for his progaming license, whether he was handed the license for gameplay or to further the PR stunt & solidify the perception of Daniel Lee as the shining force bridging the gap between Korea and the rest of the world is irrelevant. For how big an expert on Idra and his mannerisms you all seem to think you are, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sean Oh and Idra met at Blizzcon, and shortly after, Idra joined the CJ B team.

Now, eSTRO has a pretty bad B team. Their A team ain't too hot, for that matter. They're a bottom-of-the-barrel team. CJ, however, has far and away the strongest B team of ANY progaming team. That's where Idra found himself. From there, he improved his gameplay legitimately by playing against good players for ten hours a day. Daniel Lee's involvement with Idra began with hosting a tournament that Idra won, and ended with Idra being shipped to CJ after playing nothing but iccup as a member of a progaming team house for several months. And Daniel Lee handed everything to Idra on a silver platter? Daniel fucking Lee MADE Idra? What a joke.

Now, as for Idra and BM:

Idra is an angry fucking nerd. He really is. He hates losing, he hates the Protoss, he hates bad players, he hates just about everything except winning in TvZ. He says a lot of dumb shit for no reason, and all of his friends give him more hell about it than any of you with your passive-aggressive, pathetic comments about how Idra should leave Korea and kill himself or whatever. Idra does not represent foreigners. Idra speaks bluntly with latent rage about StarCraft and plays 10 hours a day. Incidents have happened before and will undoubtedly happen again. This does not matter, because Idra doesn't owe and of you a goddamned thing. Do you really think Idra would go on Korean tv and badmouth some progamer? Of course not, because those games matter relevant to his position & his career. Don't be so naive to think that the CJ team, other progamers who have a vague idea who he is, and his coaches don't know about his mannerisms. Don't be so naive to think that they really give two shits about it. Stork used to talk shit to anyone and everyone when he was a B teamer, no one cares. iloveoov used to be the rudest dude alive, no one cares. Why the hell do you all care? What's wrong with you? Be fans of the game, not some retarded idealogy of "what a progamer should be".

What Idra said to Tarson was not bad manner. Oh golly gee, jiminy cripes, oh whillikers, shock and horror! He said the F word!!!! He dared to suggest that foreign terrans don't have a rhyme & reason in their cheeses that is comparable to korean pros!!!! He dared to suggest that foreign terrans generally cheese with the intent of carrying out a specific attack regardless of what the opponent does!!!! He DARED to suggest that foreign players are not nearly as good at cheesing in TvT as korean pros and therefore do it all fuckin wierd with strange results!!!! HOW DARE YOU IDRA?

Come on. What Idra said is generally true & was not intended to be rude or demeaning at all. Tarson certainly didn't seem to take offense. There is a clear difference between Korean professional TvT cheese and nonkorean TvT cheese. Pro TvT cheese is fucking surgical, foreign TvT cheese is totally haphazard. It's completely fair for Idra to say that he doesn't FE against foreigners in TvT because he has no idea how to play against them. He is saying that he cannot fast expand because of all the wierd and unpredictable shit foreign Terrans do in the matchup, and there is a higher probability that he will die if he chooses to FE rather than open safer and let his mechanics carry him. This is a reasonable statement and is what you would see if you read between the lines from the perspective of someone who isn't a 14 year old mouth-breathing caveman. This is not an absolute statement, it doesn't apply to every player all the time, but it's reasonable. Tarson asked, and again, he didn't seem to take offense. Why are you all so worked up over something so innocuous?

Daniel Lee's outburst was childish and completely unprofessional. Saying 'fuck' during a game you aren't aware will be streamed (previous round was not, announcement didn't come until after the games were played. Read the posts in this thread, read the posts, read them, fuck.) is not the same as losing your shit during a live stream you're supposed to be commentating and then pouting for an extended duration of time, leaving your co-caster to pick up the slack. Mad fucking props to Tasteless for being the real deal and carrying that trainwreck successfully to station. By the way, if you quote this post and intend to respond, please place the word "Muffin-top" in your post somewhere so I can tell you actually read what I wrote and therefore enjoy wasting as much time as I evidently do. And like I said, at the beginning of this gigantic worthless post (which mostly serves as something to fill my idle time, also I like yelling at people look at me look at me), Daniel Lee sure got a pair on him.

if anyone said all this more eloquently and delicately than I did between the page I saw the quoted post on and this page: how dare you?!

On June 08 2009 22:53 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:


lol i'm gonna respond to this one post because i picked it out of a crowd. sorry Idle you are the whipping boy today

First let me say that my opinion of Daniel Lee has not changed. There was a positive in Daniel Lee having the balls to freak out mid-broadcast just because he was pissed off that equaled out the negative of Daniel Lee acting like a stupid fucking child and saying a bunch of unsubstantiated bullshit about Idra. Allow me to explain why this is unsubstantiated bullshit.

Once upon there was a starcraft tournament for North American players. A wondrous prize was announced, a tip to Korea to live with the eSTRO team and become a real progamer! A young man named Idra entered, and he just so happened to win. Fancy that! Out of a field of competitors with equal chances to win this prize based entirely around their gameplay in that particular tournament, Idra was chosen. Daniel Lee chose Idra from 16 players.

But all was not as it seemed in the StarCraft motherland. You know what Idra did when he got to Korea? He played on iccup. That's all. Once the novelty of a white guy in the room wore off, all of the eSTRO B team players refused to play with Idra. This is well documented on TL, go look around. Do a little fucking research, know what you're talking about before you open your goddamned mouth.

If Daniel Lee is Idra's savior, the man who saved Idra from the horrible clutches of nonkorean newbiness, what should Daniel Lee have done about the situation Idra found himself in, playing idiots on iccup, lacking any alternative because his new teammates wouldn't play him? Daniel Lee should have done something about that, if Daniel Lee is Idra's savior and not the engineer of a PR stunt. Daniel Lee didn't do a goddamned thing.

You want to know who Idra's savior was? Sean motherfucking Oh. Yeah, the CJ coach. After Idra was given a license, something that happens all the fuckin' time, as each team can give a license to two players per year if they want those players on the team and they haven't won courage, a trade happens. Idra certainly did not beg for his progaming license, whether he was handed the license for gameplay or to further the PR stunt & solidify the perception of Daniel Lee as the shining force bridging the gap between Korea and the rest of the world is irrelevant. For how big an expert on Idra and his mannerisms you all seem to think you are, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sean Oh and Idra met at Blizzcon, and shortly after, Idra joined the CJ B team.

Now, eSTRO has a pretty bad B team. Their A team ain't too hot, for that matter. They're a bottom-of-the-barrel team. CJ, however, has far and away the strongest B team of ANY progaming team. That's where Idra found himself. From there, he improved his gameplay legitimately by playing against good players for ten hours a day. Daniel Lee's involvement with Idra began with hosting a tournament that Idra won, and ended with Idra being shipped to CJ after playing nothing but iccup as a member of a progaming team house for several months. And Daniel Lee handed everything to Idra on a silver platter? Daniel fucking Lee MADE Idra? What a joke.

Now, as for Idra and BM:

Idra is an angry fucking nerd. He really is. He hates losing, he hates the Protoss, he hates bad players, he hates just about everything except winning in TvZ. He says a lot of dumb shit for no reason, and all of his friends give him more hell about it than any of you with your passive-aggressive, pathetic comments about how Idra should leave Korea and kill himself or whatever. Idra does not represent foreigners. Idra speaks bluntly with latent rage about StarCraft and plays 10 hours a day. Incidents have happened before and will undoubtedly happen again. This does not matter, because Idra doesn't owe and of you a goddamned thing. Do you really think Idra would go on Korean tv and badmouth some progamer? Of course not, because those games matter relevant to his position & his career. Don't be so naive to think that the CJ team, other progamers who have a vague idea who he is, and his coaches don't know about his mannerisms. Don't be so naive to think that they really give two shits about it. Stork used to talk shit to anyone and everyone when he was a B teamer, no one cares. iloveoov used to be the rudest dude alive, no one cares. Why the hell do you all care? What's wrong with you? Be fans of the game, not some retarded idealogy of "what a progamer should be".

What Idra said to Tarson was not bad manner. Oh golly gee, jiminy cripes, oh whillikers, shock and horror! He said the F word!!!! He dared to suggest that foreign terrans don't have a rhyme & reason in their cheeses that is comparable to korean pros!!!! He dared to suggest that foreign terrans generally cheese with the intent of carrying out a specific attack regardless of what the opponent does!!!! He DARED to suggest that foreign players are not nearly as good at cheesing in TvT as korean pros and therefore do it all fuckin wierd with strange results!!!! HOW DARE YOU IDRA?

Come on. What Idra said is generally true & was not intended to be rude or demeaning at all. Tarson certainly didn't seem to take offense. There is a clear difference between Korean professional TvT cheese and nonkorean TvT cheese. Pro TvT cheese is fucking surgical, foreign TvT cheese is totally haphazard. It's completely fair for Idra to say that he doesn't FE against foreigners in TvT because he has no idea how to play against them. He is saying that he cannot fast expand because of all the wierd and unpredictable shit foreign Terrans do in the matchup, and there is a higher probability that he will die if he chooses to FE rather than open safer and let his mechanics carry him. This is a reasonable statement and is what you would see if you read between the lines from the perspective of someone who isn't a 14 year old mouth-breathing caveman. This is not an absolute statement, it doesn't apply to every player all the time, but it's reasonable. Tarson asked, and again, he didn't seem to take offense. Why are you all so worked up over something so innocuous?

Daniel Lee's outburst was childish and completely unprofessional. Saying 'fuck' during a game you aren't aware will be streamed (previous round was not, announcement didn't come until after the games were played. Read the posts in this thread, read the posts, read them, fuck.) is not the same as losing your shit during a live stream you're supposed to be commentating and then pouting for an extended duration of time, leaving your co-caster to pick up the slack. Mad fucking props to Tasteless for being the real deal and carrying that trainwreck successfully to station. By the way, if you quote this post and intend to respond, please place the word "Muffin-top" in your post somewhere so I can tell you actually read what I wrote and therefore enjoy wasting as much time as I evidently do. And like I said, at the beginning of this gigantic worthless post (which mostly serves as something to fill my idle time, also I like yelling at people look at me look at me), Daniel Lee sure got a pair on him.

if anyone said all this more eloquently and delicately than I did between the page I saw the quoted post on and this page: how dare you?!