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On December 13 2009 23:41 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2009 18:48 NicolBolas wrote:On December 13 2009 17:24 Fzero wrote:
The thing you guys don't understand is that Jaedong has the most BM attitude of anyone in progaming. Jaedong imagines himself killing his opponent IN REALITY in his pre-game warmups. He's admitted this in interviews. Stork is fucking psychotic. He LAUGHS during LIVE TELEVISION matches because he thinks his opponents attempts to kill him are so futile and weak. Idra just types some angry text and leaves the game. Pretty tame, no? And yet in the midst of all of that... they still GG when they lose. It may be automatic, it may be a meaningless courtesy, but it is a courtesy nevertheless. Whatever their attitude may be, they do not send messages to their opponents praising themselves. And they never give excuses for a lost or denigrate an opponent for beating them. To me, it's the last part that's the worst for Idra. I can kinda understand Jaedong and Stork's mindset. I can see a pro player laughing at some crap-ass attempt to knock the master from his perch. I can understand psyching oneself up for battle by imagining killing your opponent. But when you lose a game, when you are beaten, you accept it. You don't make excuses. You don't denigrate your opponent. You accept that you lost. To do otherwise shows both an immaturity and an unwillingness to see reality for what it is, rather than what you would like it to be. Isn't that why Scrubs are hated so much? Because they put the blame on something other than themselves when they lose? "Oh, Mutalisks need to be nerfed." "Siege Tanks are too powerful." Etc. And isn't that attitude exactly why they don't improve? Because they're not willing to find the actual problem rather than inventing fictitious ones, they cannot see their faults for what they are and make them better. exactly what I said, but in different words. This very BM is the indicator that stuff in his head is not correctly arranged. The only reason you complain is because you believe there's something to complain about. If the top players truly believed there's something wrong about the game or their opponents, they'd all act like idra. This is not about self control. It's about seeing what is and what isn't. Idra is still refusing to claim the losses as his own; instead he's forwarding the blame on stuff outside his control and in a way martyring himself. It's not the road to success.
Or maybe hes just frustrated from losing, people need to stop over analyzing this.
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On December 13 2009 23:31 Camlito wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2009 23:27 Piste wrote:On December 13 2009 23:23 Camlito wrote:On December 13 2009 23:19 Piste wrote:TSL.IdrA: isnt this funny
TSL.IdrA: you won without doing a single thing
TSL.IdrA has left the game kinda true tho. if zerg is just careful defending vs dropships and then turtles with swarm till 4gas economy and tech kicks in, how is terran supposed to win? hard map. Most pro terrans would have beaten ret that game. There is a way to win. yes but most pro terrans are on a different skill level. yeh... if a terran improves his skill level, he can beat it?
yes, if the zerg is at ret's level (still low vs most progamers)
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On December 13 2009 23:41 niteReloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2009 18:48 NicolBolas wrote:On December 13 2009 17:24 Fzero wrote:
The thing you guys don't understand is that Jaedong has the most BM attitude of anyone in progaming. Jaedong imagines himself killing his opponent IN REALITY in his pre-game warmups. He's admitted this in interviews. Stork is fucking psychotic. He LAUGHS during LIVE TELEVISION matches because he thinks his opponents attempts to kill him are so futile and weak. Idra just types some angry text and leaves the game. Pretty tame, no? And yet in the midst of all of that... they still GG when they lose. It may be automatic, it may be a meaningless courtesy, but it is a courtesy nevertheless. Whatever their attitude may be, they do not send messages to their opponents praising themselves. And they never give excuses for a lost or denigrate an opponent for beating them. To me, it's the last part that's the worst for Idra. I can kinda understand Jaedong and Stork's mindset. I can see a pro player laughing at some crap-ass attempt to knock the master from his perch. I can understand psyching oneself up for battle by imagining killing your opponent. But when you lose a game, when you are beaten, you accept it. You don't make excuses. You don't denigrate your opponent. You accept that you lost. To do otherwise shows both an immaturity and an unwillingness to see reality for what it is, rather than what you would like it to be. Isn't that why Scrubs are hated so much? Because they put the blame on something other than themselves when they lose? "Oh, Mutalisks need to be nerfed." "Siege Tanks are too powerful." Etc. And isn't that attitude exactly why they don't improve? Because they're not willing to find the actual problem rather than inventing fictitious ones, they cannot see their faults for what they are and make them better. exactly what I said, but in different words. This very BM is the indicator that stuff in his head is not correctly arranged. The only reason you complain is because you believe there's something to complain about. If the top players truly believed there's something wrong about the game or their opponents, they'd all act like idra. This is not about self control. It's about seeing what is and what isn't. Idra is still refusing to claim the losses as his own; instead he's forwarding the blame on stuff outside his control and in a way martyring himself. It's not the road to success.
I've been thinking about that.
I think Idra's problem is always the same one: he believes that the game is entirely mechanical: if you do what you are supposed to do, better than your opponent, you win. As he has better mechanics than others foreigners, he always think that there is something unfair when he loses.
Remember his game versus F91. He explained afterward that F91 won because he was doing "stupid stuff": not going muta on Raid Assault, doing risky all in, etc... That's a serious misunderstanding. F91 outplayed him. Not by his knowledge of the game, not by his mechanics, but by the gambling part, the psychology, the bet. For Idra all this part of the game doesn't have any value. Problem is, to be really good, you need both. Game sense, imagination, psychology etc... and mechanics, pure knowledge of what is the most efficient.
Idra is the most conformist player ever. That's it.
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It's sad that koreans don't really have an idra vs ret equivalent isn't it?
BM vs GM
Unless of course you count FBH vs sAviOr, in which case it doesn't really count as a rivalry because they never meet in finals
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On December 13 2009 23:55 DM20 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2009 23:41 niteReloaded wrote:On December 13 2009 18:48 NicolBolas wrote:On December 13 2009 17:24 Fzero wrote:
The thing you guys don't understand is that Jaedong has the most BM attitude of anyone in progaming. Jaedong imagines himself killing his opponent IN REALITY in his pre-game warmups. He's admitted this in interviews. Stork is fucking psychotic. He LAUGHS during LIVE TELEVISION matches because he thinks his opponents attempts to kill him are so futile and weak. Idra just types some angry text and leaves the game. Pretty tame, no? And yet in the midst of all of that... they still GG when they lose. It may be automatic, it may be a meaningless courtesy, but it is a courtesy nevertheless. Whatever their attitude may be, they do not send messages to their opponents praising themselves. And they never give excuses for a lost or denigrate an opponent for beating them. To me, it's the last part that's the worst for Idra. I can kinda understand Jaedong and Stork's mindset. I can see a pro player laughing at some crap-ass attempt to knock the master from his perch. I can understand psyching oneself up for battle by imagining killing your opponent. But when you lose a game, when you are beaten, you accept it. You don't make excuses. You don't denigrate your opponent. You accept that you lost. To do otherwise shows both an immaturity and an unwillingness to see reality for what it is, rather than what you would like it to be. Isn't that why Scrubs are hated so much? Because they put the blame on something other than themselves when they lose? "Oh, Mutalisks need to be nerfed." "Siege Tanks are too powerful." Etc. And isn't that attitude exactly why they don't improve? Because they're not willing to find the actual problem rather than inventing fictitious ones, they cannot see their faults for what they are and make them better. exactly what I said, but in different words. This very BM is the indicator that stuff in his head is not correctly arranged. The only reason you complain is because you believe there's something to complain about. If the top players truly believed there's something wrong about the game or their opponents, they'd all act like idra. This is not about self control. It's about seeing what is and what isn't. Idra is still refusing to claim the losses as his own; instead he's forwarding the blame on stuff outside his control and in a way martyring himself. It's not the road to success. Or maybe hes just frustrated from losing, people need to stop over analyzing this.
Fzero is right, and you may say "they still gg" but you alsof orget this is a fucking kespa rule so tehy have to
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I don't think that you can reach Idra's skill level without caring a lot about the game; to me, the "bm" is just that showing through, via frustration. With that said, the goal is to win games, not impress your opponent, and there are various ways to accomplish that goal. I can understand venting your frustration in games with people you don't know or like, but friendships that you have should take priority over a game, thus no need to be bad mannered.If you can't show enough respect to someone, then why are they your friend in the first place? I could be wrong, but I figured they were on better terms.
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On December 14 2009 01:11 NFL2368 wrote:
It's sad that koreans don't really have an idra vs ret equivalent isn't it?
BM vs GM
Unless of course you count FBH vs sAviOr, in which case it doesn't really count as a rivalry because they never meet in finals
best vs go.go. seems like a pretty good paralell.
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Terrans bitching about camping is a joke.
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I don't get it. Zerg can't just camp until they get 4 gas.
1. Terrans can stop additional expos, and limit Zerg to 2-3 gas.
2. Swarm doesn't protect buildings so you can siege those. Plus splash will slowly dmg units.
3. Irradiate can take out lurkers under swarm.
4. Firebats can mop up lings under swarm.
5. Zerg are not immune to drops, esp. dropships with dmatrix.
6. Terrans can expand/tech at the same time as Zerg.
7. Camping allows terrans map control with tank, vultures, silos, and mines.
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On December 14 2009 01:46 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2009 01:11 NFL2368 wrote:
It's sad that koreans don't really have an idra vs ret equivalent isn't it?
BM vs GM
Unless of course you count FBH vs sAviOr, in which case it doesn't really count as a rivalry because they never meet in finals best vs go.go. seems like a pretty good paralell.
They're not the best, and it's one-sided now. Also, BeSt's counter-ceremony was brutal.
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On December 14 2009 02:48 cakemanofdoom wrote:
They're not the best, and it's one-sided now. Also, BeSt's counter-ceremony was brutal.
Could you link a VOD to me please?
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I can't believe most of you havn't BMed a friend after a close match. This totally happens all the time... just think about the last time you played Halo or another competitive game. -.- You BS your friend.
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yeah I can BM my friends, but I have the habit of adding like a smiley or something else in the end of the BM so they understand that I'm just having a laugh
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On December 14 2009 03:48 Sabu113 wrote:
I can't believe most of you havn't BMed a friend after a close match. This totally happens all the time... just think about the last time you played Halo or another competitive game. -.- You BS your friend.
What about Idra's comments after he lost to F91? I mean, I'm a fan of Idra, but you can't say he doesn't act like a whiny little kid.
Some pre-game or in-game trash talk is great, but most people don't respect those who whine after they lose. Personally I think it's amusing but not everyone will be amused.
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On December 13 2009 18:16 HeavOnEarth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2009 09:08 Frits wrote:On December 13 2009 08:57 niteReloaded wrote:
If idra is serious in what he says, I'm not so sure he's progamer level metagame-wise. explain I think it's pretty irrelevant, besides, blaming your loss on something out of your control is an effective coping strategy, even if it makes you look stupid. imo any games after then 10 minute mark favor the better player + Show Spoiler +http://www.iccup.com/matchlist/290667/1x1.html therefore, it wasnt completely out of his control so wouldn't pretending it was just hurt him later on?
Any game favors the better player...
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There is a sense of irony when someone who constantly critisizes foreigners for doing cheesy/all-in builds begins to moan about someone playing pretty much as straight up as it gets.
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On December 14 2009 04:11 selboN wrote:
IdrA is the bomb.
the BM bomb :p
im not sure if this was set up or not b/c the interview with artosis.. they seemed really friendly with each other, and it would ONLY MAKE SENSE to build up the anticipation/crowd of seeing them in the finals = more profit/recognition? 
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Idra was angry because he should by rights have won that game. He majorly messed up twice in the late game and got frustrated and rage quitted.
Idra is normally decent manner against Ret. You people are making waaay to much of this. Like you're calling Idra a whining kid when you're all sitting in an internet forum making fun of some teenager who most of you haven't spoken too...
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EPT
