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Link to the intro post here: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=373235
The overall picture of the Russo-Polish Front
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wPcZT.png)
The xxxx's denote the operational area of each army-level grouping.
The middle thrust is the Chinese Expeditionary Force, composed of twelve divisions, four brigades organized into three corps and a corps-sized operational maneuver group. This force, and the Turks to the south, sustained breakthroughs to the NATO strategic rear.
A closeup. The CEF army is along the bottom edge.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/50azO.png)
The xxx's denote the operational area of each corps-level grouping.
The overall situation was highly favorable along the army's operational axis. The CEF completed operational-level encirclement of two enemy corps, and pinned and destroyed the NATO first-echelon strategic reserve piecemeal along the Austrian border... blah... blah... blah
blah.
Ok, enough of the mil-speak bullshit.
Basically what happened is the Dukla Pass is the gate into the Carpathian Basin. Imagine the Carpathians as a huge bowl, and the Dukla as a lowered spot on the edge where water can flow in and out more easily. Oh, and the Carpathians are low gentle hills along the Northern edge and sharp mountains along the Southern edge.
So after looking at the map I was like:
Hmmm, I'm the only grouping to have made it past NATO's front line. I punched a hole through the Dukla pass. NATO threw their second-echelon reserve against me (every single Polish and Romanian division that wasn't on the front lines, and some French/German/Belgian divisions as well) and it got chewed up and kicked back into Czechoslovakia, with severe losses as they were squeezed up against the (neutral) Austrian border, trying to flee in dribs and drabs while getting pounded by tank divisions all along the way.
So basically now I know I've sustained a penetration and I can threaten the flanks of both NATO fronts--the one versus the Turks in the south, and the one versus the Russians in the north.
Remember the earlier statement about the Carpathians? Well punching south from that soup bowl is going to be hard. Those are mountains in the south. I only have four heliborne regiments/spec ops brigades total, and all of them got mauled badly in the initial breakthrough and exploitation. Going over those peaks will not be fun for the rest of my heavily mechanized and tank-laden forces either.
A swing north, however, presents a much better alternative.
This much I know: the Russians have thrown everything they have against NATO and are making slow but steady progress. They have no pre-formed second echelon. I have no idea whether NATO has formed a second echelon, but my spies tell me France+Germany has 80+ land divisions (or brigades getting quickly refilled into divisions) and I've only counted 30 units from those two countries; NATO follow on forces are going to make life hell for us if they can reinforce the front line.
This, on top of the fact that Italy has another 30 divisions which haven't entered the conflict yet (because of slow mobilization or whatever.)
So at this point I orient my forces based on three ideas:
1) Kill, don't beat back--Hearts of Iron operates according to the principle where if you defeat a unit's "organization" strength, the unit retreats with a percent force loss, but if you trap a unit and then force it to retreat, the unit surrenders or auto-disbands. This is actually very much similar to how war works in real life.
2) From #1, I need to kill off the NATO forces in Poland (trap the divisions) before Italy becomes a meaningful force and before the NATO second echelon arrives
3) River crossings suck for modern armies. Trying to get equipment and men across a river (or up a mountain) in the heat of battle is a monumental organizational task and one that drastically reduces the firepower of a unit. Hearts of Iron models this by applying a 25% to 99% (!) combat penalty to any unit trying to cross a river under hostile fire--the variance is determined, in order of decreasing importance, by how much heavy equipment (tanks and artillery) the unit has; whether engineer or transport helicopter brigades are attached; and whether the unit CO has an "engineer" trait. Taking a quick look at the tank-heavy NATO divisions facing the Russians, I realized that I could just drive to the Baltic coast, cut off their (slow) retreat over Polish rivers, and kill them all, while using the north-south river systems to protect my flanks against the NATO second echelon coming from the west.
So I made three operational groupings: blue, orange, and purple and prepped for a northern push.
Op group blue would serve as a speed bump. They were filled by one motorized infantry division that would attempt to slow down and break up any orderly retreat by NATO forces from the East, and preferably funnel them towards retreating along a route north of Warsaw.
Op group orange would be the main force that punched to the Baltics. The 2 divisions in the orange circle and the 7 divisions along the Italian and Romanian borders were all nominally attached to it; the 2 divisions would lead, the 7 others would follow and orient themselves into a "funnel" or "concave" killing zone.
Op group purple would be a 6 division speed bump to the West that would attempt to slow down the Second Echelon long enough for Op group orange to complete the trap and link up with Russian forces from the East.
Not pictured were nine regiments (equivalent to three divisions) or paratroopers I'd brought over from Taiwan. They were tired, and the regiments were at only 60-70% strength, so I wanted to rest them, but if needed I was going to land them at Kleice, capture the airfield, and use them + their transport aircraft as a mobile reserve at the army level.
The boundaries for each operational grouping were determined by... you guessed it, rivers.
Unfortunately, this all didn't work out according to plan.
First, the NATO second echelon decided to hit hard, and bite down on Op group purple before it left its staging area in Czechoslovakia. Those six divisions were swarmed by over thirty NATO divisions, and I almost wrote them off.
Second, Polish reserve infantry proved to be tough, even against crack elite Chinese armor divisions  . Op group orange was not able to sustain a breakthrough.
And third, the Russians began falling back in the face of stiffening NATO airpower. So now Op group blue became a desperately needed defense against NATO attempts to close off the entire CEF pocket and trap and destroy the CEF.
But down south, my Pakistani allies had done very well against the Indians--they'd manage to stay defend their borders without the use of nukes, so I decided to peel 22 divisions away from the remaining 30 I had in China (leftovers from whacking Taiwan + newly activated reserves) and send them to Eastern Europe.
The trip would take them 14 days.
In the meantime, I had to figure out how to deal with India without the massive waves of armor I originally planned for.
And the Straits of Malacca were getting a little too quiet.
Oh, and North Korea was getting its ass kicked by South Korea. Their human wave assaults with obsolete tech were bleeding themselves white.
 
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Oh god what the fuck, this is awesome! Do one on Singapore?
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On October 04 2012 18:12 Azera wrote:
Oh god what the fuck, this is awesome! Do one on Singapore?
I'm going to give you a minor spoiler: at some point in this story, SIngapore invades India. No joke
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On October 04 2012 18:15 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 18:12 Azera wrote:
Oh god what the fuck, this is awesome! Do one on Singapore? I'm going to give you a minor spoiler: at some point in this story, SIngapore invades India. No joke
Damn man, I've always fantasized that Singapore would invade Malaysia to form Greater Singapore. First, we'd set up a puppet government to slowly inject Malaysia with out Meritocratic pseudo-Democratic ideals, and then in the span of 5 years we'd be in total control of Malaysia. The Malaysians will then see how great Singaporean governance is and agree to all become Singaporeans. All the land and will be ours! huehuehuehuehue
Nuclear power plants in Johore Bahru once we're in control of Malaysia because with all the land, why the hell not?
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On October 04 2012 18:27 Azera wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 18:15 Shady Sands wrote:On October 04 2012 18:12 Azera wrote:
Oh god what the fuck, this is awesome! Do one on Singapore? I'm going to give you a minor spoiler: at some point in this story, SIngapore invades India. No joke Damn man, I've always fantasized that Singapore would invade Malaysia to form Greater Singapore. First, we'd set up a puppet government to slowly inject Malaysia with out Meritocratic pseudo-Democratic ideals, and then in the span of 5 years we'd be in total control of Malaysia. The Malaysians will then see how great Singaporean governance is and agree to all become Singaporeans. All the land and will be ours! huehuehuehuehue Nuclear power plants in Johore Bahru once we're in control of Malaysia because with all the land, why the hell not?
Looooool. Malaysia declared neutrality on like Day 2 of the war. Perhaps they knew what might come? 
Though, trust me, a single Singaporean division can do amazing things when matched against a completely confused Indian army
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On October 04 2012 18:33 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 18:27 Azera wrote:On October 04 2012 18:15 Shady Sands wrote:On October 04 2012 18:12 Azera wrote:
Oh god what the fuck, this is awesome! Do one on Singapore? I'm going to give you a minor spoiler: at some point in this story, SIngapore invades India. No joke Damn man, I've always fantasized that Singapore would invade Malaysia to form Greater Singapore. First, we'd set up a puppet government to slowly inject Malaysia with out Meritocratic pseudo-Democratic ideals, and then in the span of 5 years we'd be in total control of Malaysia. The Malaysians will then see how great Singaporean governance is and agree to all become Singaporeans. All the land and will be ours! huehuehuehuehue Nuclear power plants in Johore Bahru once we're in control of Malaysia because with all the land, why the hell not? Looooool. Malaysia declared neutrality on like Day 2 of the war. Perhaps they knew what might come? Though, trust me, a single Singaporean division can do amazing things when matched against a completely confused Indian army
*Beats chest*
I really want to play this game now.
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On October 04 2012 18:35 Azera wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 18:33 Shady Sands wrote:On October 04 2012 18:27 Azera wrote:On October 04 2012 18:15 Shady Sands wrote:On October 04 2012 18:12 Azera wrote:
Oh god what the fuck, this is awesome! Do one on Singapore? I'm going to give you a minor spoiler: at some point in this story, SIngapore invades India. No joke Damn man, I've always fantasized that Singapore would invade Malaysia to form Greater Singapore. First, we'd set up a puppet government to slowly inject Malaysia with out Meritocratic pseudo-Democratic ideals, and then in the span of 5 years we'd be in total control of Malaysia. The Malaysians will then see how great Singaporean governance is and agree to all become Singaporeans. All the land and will be ours! huehuehuehuehue Nuclear power plants in Johore Bahru once we're in control of Malaysia because with all the land, why the hell not? Looooool. Malaysia declared neutrality on like Day 2 of the war. Perhaps they knew what might come? Though, trust me, a single Singaporean division can do amazing things when matched against a completely confused Indian army *Beats chest* I really want to play this game now.
I think you can DL it off a TPB torrent.
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On October 04 2012 18:39 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 18:35 Azera wrote:On October 04 2012 18:33 Shady Sands wrote:On October 04 2012 18:27 Azera wrote:On October 04 2012 18:15 Shady Sands wrote:On October 04 2012 18:12 Azera wrote:
Oh god what the fuck, this is awesome! Do one on Singapore? I'm going to give you a minor spoiler: at some point in this story, SIngapore invades India. No joke Damn man, I've always fantasized that Singapore would invade Malaysia to form Greater Singapore. First, we'd set up a puppet government to slowly inject Malaysia with out Meritocratic pseudo-Democratic ideals, and then in the span of 5 years we'd be in total control of Malaysia. The Malaysians will then see how great Singaporean governance is and agree to all become Singaporeans. All the land and will be ours! huehuehuehuehue Nuclear power plants in Johore Bahru once we're in control of Malaysia because with all the land, why the hell not? Looooool. Malaysia declared neutrality on like Day 2 of the war. Perhaps they knew what might come? Though, trust me, a single Singaporean division can do amazing things when matched against a completely confused Indian army *Beats chest* I really want to play this game now. I think you can DL it off a TPB torrent.
Yeah but I'm gonna have to stay away from these types of RTS games. I started playing Civ 5 a couple weeks ago and after a straight 8 hour game I realised my mistake and uninstalled it.
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No aircraft / nuclear weapons in this game ? Your description of the strategy looks like the Napoleonic wars lol.
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there is at least aircraft (he was talking about it in his previous blog)
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On October 04 2012 20:13 Boblion wrote:
No aircraft / nuclear weapons in this game ? Your description of the strategy looks like the Napoleonic wars lol.
The game is a mod of Hearts of Iron 2, and neither air power nor nuclear weapons work realistically in this game, although air power is at least simulated on a decent level of abstraction.
It is a game involving continuous infantry fronts, so no Napoleonic wars. It is also a fantasy scenario, considering the Peoples Republic of China is conquering Europe in Anno Domini 1009, so I suspect improved realism was not the Mod designers goal. Reminds me of the Mao-Khruschev Meetings of the mid-50s as related in the latters memoirs.
Mao: What do you think, when one compares the military strength of the communist world with the capitalist world? Do you not consider that we with our combined population of 700 million possess a definite advantage? Merely start a war with the West, and we will give you all the troops you need.
Whereupon Khruschev purportedly retorted: Mr. Chairman, in the age of nuclear weapons more troops merely make for easier targets.
Mao, obviously not getting the hint: There is no limit to the troops we can send you: 100 divisions, 200 divisions, 1000 divisions.
Chairman Mao would have had a point if the 50s were a Hearts of Iron game, though.
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At least in the CiV games you can get rid of stacks with nukes :<
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Is there any particular reason you play HoI 2 over HoI 3 nowadays? Also I think I would kill for a nerd-weekend with either of those in multiplayer. I think it's been literally years that we had one of those games going on TL.
Also, do you play Crusader Kings 2? I can't get into that one at all out of all the Paradox games. T_T
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Leave Poland alone!!!!!111
on the serious side: that looks cool, nice blog, keep it going
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On October 04 2012 20:13 Boblion wrote:
No aircraft / nuclear weapons in this game ? Your description of the strategy looks like the Napoleonic wars lol.
There were 12 squadrons of fighter aircraft performing air superiority and ground attack throughout the entire campaign, but they didn't prove to be decisive factors in and of themselves. They definitely helped in slowing the retreat of the NATO front line down enough to enable the encirclements, however
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On October 04 2012 23:47 r.Evo wrote:
Is there any particular reason you play HoI 2 over HoI 3 nowadays? Also I think I would kill for a nerd-weekend with either of those in multiplayer. I think it's been literally years that we had one of those games going on TL.
Also, do you play Crusader Kings 2? I can't get into that one at all out of all the Paradox games. T_T
In my opinion, the HoI3 interface is terribly designed, and it's extremely difficult to get the feedback you need from the maps to micromanage the combat. Add the condition that the game has been out for three years, and still lacks polish in many areas. The map is horrible and poorly researched. Misplaced cities, rivers, terrain, harbours, airfields, industrial concentrations, population sizes, and so forth.
Hearts of Iron 2 was certainly no better, but the larger level of detail obscures what is less forgivable in HoI3.
I have played Hearts of Iron 2 multiplayer in the past, but you have to find a team of very dedicated players with compatible schedules.
At least in the CiV games you can get rid of stacks with nukes :<
You can do that in HoI as well. The unrealistic part of nukes is that you can never accelerate beyond a production level of 1 or 2 per year. Obviously this does not extend well if you want to take a game past 1945. Nukes also cause civil dissent in the country nuked in proportion to the sum of industry and population destroyed by the blast.
If you play HoI2 vanilla, and you nuke the USA often enough, you will have rebels popping up and taking control of 80% of American territory spontaneously, usually followed by a declaration of independence by the Republic of California, Texas, and so forth.
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EPT
