GSL and the NASL (1000th post)

FuRong

New Zealand3089 Posts

February 26 2011 09:55 GMT

I guess you could say that this post has been a long time coming. A quick glance at my posting history confirms that it's been more than a month since I last posted anything on TL. Since all the cool kids seemed to be doing it, I wanted to write about something interesting/memorable for my 1000th post, but I never got around to doing it. At first I wanted to write about the OSL finals, then the news about Violet's condition came out and suddenly arguing about anything SC related seemed kind of redundant. I had a lot of ideas...but in the end all of those topics got swept under the table, and there I was still sitting on 998 posts.

So in the interests of breaking the magic number and being able to post again in LR threads, I decided to just write something about Starcraft and call it done. So here are my thoughts on a few topics related to the GSL and NASL:

Evolution of the GSL

I feel that in a lot of threads and discussions on this site, people seem to lose track of just how much the GSL has managed to achieve in only a few months of existence. Remember when the SC2 beta had just been released? Think back to that time, and imagine what you would say if I told you that within a year, there would already be a huge SC2 tournament established in Korea, a tournament paying $50k to the winner, a tournament featuring Nada, Boxer, July, Lyn, Moon and a selection of top foreign players...a tournament broadcast in English alongside the Korean stream.

In all honesty, I would have been laughed off the internet, and probably tempbanned if I added the Nostradamus-esque prediction that of all known progamers,

Zergbong would become one of the first few champions of this tournament.

Seriously, what kind of odds would you have laid?

My point is, the fact that we even have a GSL at all is pretty amazing and something that, as a community, we should celebrate. Not only do we have a GSL, but by most people's standards the tournament so far has been a resounding success. Sure, there have been some hiccups along the way like poor game quality over the first few seasons and continuing issues with the English stream. But at the same time, there have been a lot of positives, and I think it's all too easy to skip over these things and take them for granted.

At the beginning of Season 1, we didn't really know what to expect. Most of the players were unknowns, the game was still in the process of being patched extensively, and the quality of matches was somewhat lacking to say the least. The LR threads cried out in earnest. “Why won't the stream work?” “Why are these guys all-ining every game? Don't they know how to macro?!” “Ez money imo, I should go and qualify for this thing”. And after a lot of QQing, complaining and whining, a champion was crowned...

It's certainly been an interesting road from the first Open Season to the GSL March series we are watching right now. The game quality has slowly improved, helped along by the introduction of new maps for this season. Those previously unknown faces have now become familiar as we've gotten to know who the key players are, how they like to play and what their strengths and weaknesses are. And throughout all this, I've been impressed by the way Gom has been approaching both their own production and the tournament in general. Rather than stubbornly stick to one way of doing things, they have been willing to innovate, to try things out, to look for ways to improve upon what is already a very high quality production.

If you look at the changes between GSL Season 1 and GSL March, the difference is remarkable. The intros, the player interviews, the filler content, all of this adds a lot of value to the viewing experience by adding storylines, creating rivalries and telling us more about each player's background. But even more than that, it's the little, subtle things that put a smile on your face while watching. Things like the banana and oranges placed in a precarious position in Fruitdealer's booth. The Idra tribute video. The little cartoon bunny sequence they played at the end of the finals. Artosis getting trolled by question submitters on the forums. Playing the Tasteless song during a finals broadcast. The Streetfighter guy and IU voiceovers. The outlandish ceremonies and BM during the GSTL finals. I could go on and on, and I know that Gom is not even directly responsible for half of these things, but I know that they have made the viewing experience immensely more enjoyable for myself as well as many others.

It's the little things that count

These things were in no way necessary for the success of the production as a whole, but it's precisely these kind of little extras that make you stop and think “hey, that was actually really cool”. Gom didn't have to take the trouble to create any of this content, but they did, and we as viewers have benefitted from it. And that, I think, is actually really cool.

I like the way that Gom is willing to experiment and try out new things from season to season. Maps sucking? Let's change them. Mother interviews too awkward? Get rid of them. Not enough studio viewers? Let's give them free pizza. Needs more Kpop? No worries, we've got Secret to cover our bases. You get the feeling that Gom has really got their act together, and they are willing to listen to feedback from both the players and the general community. I mean, hell, we even have Gom representatives posting in the LR threads here on TL right as the action is taking place. PR much?

GSL might not yet have the popularity of BW Starleagues, but at least they can do better than inviting Dalshabet to perform at their grand final

In short, I think we all owe a huge thank you to Gom TV for being awesome and bringing us this content up to five (six) days a week. With the prior success of Broodwar Starleagues, Gom had large boots to fill, and I'm really glad that they have stepped up to the challenge and created such a high quality production.

Code A and the Foreigner Seeds

As Treehugger pointed out in the GSL March preview writeup, Code A is far from easy. In fact, Code A is really fucking hard. As viewers, we are quick to point out the flaws in every player and often wonder how they even managed to qualify, but the truth is that right now, qualifying for Code A is probably one of the most difficult things to achieve in the Starcraft world. Let's look at the numbers. The GSL itself consists of 64 players, 32 in Code S and 32 in Code A. In reality, only 16 of those Code A players will retain their status at the end of each season, which leaves only 48 players remaining in the GSL system. That may seem like a lot, but in relation to the pool of talented players in Korea, it's actually a really small number.

Now consider that outside this group of 48 players, each season only 12 players will manage to qualify for Code A. Twelve players out of the entire Korean top 200. To say that the competition is cut-throat would be an understatement. You have to win four matches straight to qualify. Even in Code A itself, you only have to win two rounds to get a shot at Code S, at which point you only have to win one out of two matches to be promoted. There is no such luxury in qualification. In every round of qualifiers, there are going to be heaps of deserving players who miss out because there simply aren't enough spaces to accommodate all of them.

In fact, if you took the bottom three quarters of Code S players (ie: remove MVP, Nestea, MC, MKP, Jinro, Nada, Tester and...someone) and placed then in the Code A qualifiers, I think we would be surprised at how few of them would actually manage to make the top 12. Now I'm not saying that Code S players are bad, I'm just trying to point out that there is so much talent competing for so few places that even established Code S players would not be guaranteed a spot by any means.

Would this man make it through the Code A qualifiers? You be the judge...

This brings me to the next question, which is why are there so few spots available? Well, the simple answer is the league structure. The GSL format is structured in a way that means at any one time, every team's roster will have a large pool of talented players who just can't get in. There simply aren't enough spaces. However, there is also another point to consider, which is that 4 of the 16 available Code A spots (25%) have been reserved for foreign players. Now, you can probably see where I'm going with this, so let me get the warm fuzzies out of the way first. In line with my praise of the GSL above, I have to say that Gom's initiative to invite foreign players to Korea and provide housing for them is nothing short of amazing, and is undoubtedly a huge step forward for the future of ESPORTS. Having said that, however, and with regard to the supply and demand problem for Code A spots, I feel that it's necessary to discuss whether reserving four Code A spots for foreigners is, in fact, justifiable.

Obviously, any selection process in which one group are given privilege over another should be open to scrutiny. For example, racial quotas at universities have always been controversial, and as far as I understand, affirmative action in America is also a hotly-debated issue. But for the sake of this discussion, let me use a hypothetical Starcraft-related example. Let's say that for the upcoming NASL, it is announced that in the interests of marketing appeal, promoting diversity and encouraging participation, 5 of the 50 player spots will be reserved for female players.

A bold statement I know, but stay with me on this one. Let's pretend that after the mandatory 50 page ragefest on TL consisting mainly of hating, white-knighting and tempbanning, season one goes ahead as planned. What happens? Well, there are three main possible outcomes:

Situation 1: the 5 chosen players perform well in the league, with 3 qualifying for the knockout stage and the others obtaining records of 6-3 and 4-5 respectively.

Situation 2: the 5 chosen players achieve poor to middling results, going 5-4, 3-6, 2-7, 2-7 and 1-8 in their groups respectively.

Situation 3: the 5 chosen players get utterly destroyed, losing virtually every game in embarrassing fashion.

The point I'm getting at here is that, unfortunate as it may be, any discussion of whether the reserved spaces are justified is going to be heavily influenced by the results of the actual players concerned during the first few seasons of the league. In situation one, supporters of the policy will say “see? I told you so!”. In situations two and three, naysayers will chime in with an equally loud chorus of exactly the same thing, calling for the policy's removal in the name of fairness.

Razer_Pikachu vs ST_Squirtle? I heard that electricity is pretty good against water types...

This is why, whether you like it or not, this season's Code A tournament is probably the most important of any GSL so far in terms of foreign interests. How far will the four foreign seeds go? Will they exceed all expectations? Will they prove themselves worthy? Will they make a quick and embarassing exit? Whatever the result may be, they are playing not only to further their own interests, but also to prove to the Starcraft community that they are worthy of being selected, and on a broader level, to show that offering foreigner seeds is a sound and justifiable policy in the first place. And this is where the problems start.

Like most of the TL community, I was excited at the chance to see more foreigners playing in Code A. But at the same time, I was also a little bit worried. What if they fail? What if they get outclassed? What if the next few seasons consist of four new foreigners being brought in only to be swiftly dismissed 0-2 in the first round? Not only would it make the foreigner community feel somewhat sheepish, but it could cause the Korean community to question the decision on Gom's part. Afterall, if there are 150 Korean players busting their ass to qualify for one of the precious few Code A spots, it must be disheartening for them to see four places given away to guys who are just going to die in the first round anyway.

Well, thankfully it hasn't turned out like that. Haypro played commendably and was defeated by a tough opponent in his Code A match, but anyone who saw his games can verify that he was certainly deserving of the place he was offered. Huk secured his place in Code A with a first round win. Glade got kind of destroyed last night, and Ret hasn't played yet. On the whole, I'd say that the first season of foreign seeds have earned a passing grade.

None of that shit, son. Yeah that's right, I'm looking at you forumtr0ll3r69

However, this doesn't mean that the concern will just go away. We have to keep in mind that the three Liquid seeds chosen for this season's Code A have all been living and training in Korea for some time, and are probably among the top tier of foreign players at the moment. They got their chance and, for the most part, demonstrated that they are capable of playing at a Code A level. Fantastic.

But what about next season? Obviously, Gom can't go around giving the reserved places to guys like Haypro and Glade who have already had their chance and been eliminated. To maintain credibility, they will have to be given to other foreigners who want to try their luck. But realistically speaking, are other players coming over to Korea for a few weeks going to do any better? Even if they are good enough in terms of raw skill, without the months of training, practicing and adapting to the Korean style of play, it's going to be exceptionally hard for foreign players to just waltz into Korea, take their seed and begin ripping things up.

I'm not saying it's never happened before, but...

So where does this leave us? Although the foreign seeds have performed well enough in GSL March to justify their selection, this may be as good as it gets, and there is no guarantee that there will be a constant flow of foreigners coming to Korea who can play at a Code A level. Specifically, I feel that the system currently in place leads to several problems:

1) Reserving special places for foreigners actually increases the pressure on them to perform, in a situation where they are already likely to be suffering from nerves and stress brought upon by the unfamiliar environment. It's a psychological thing. Even if nobody says anything, as a recipient of special treatment you are going to feel an extra kind of pressure that doesn't apply to players who earned their spot through conventional qualification.

2) It denies top foreigners the chance to qualify legitimately. Giving free seedings is great, and I'm sure it was a relief to guys like Huk and Ret when they turned up to qualify and were told they were given a free pass, but I think that they deserve the right to go through qualification the same way that all other players have to.

3) It's really hard to gauge how good someone is simply by comparing their ladder rank or their achievements on an application form. Who is worthy? Why should player X be given a slot over player Y? We could argue all day about how to weigh the various factors, but wouldn't it be easier if we just got all the applicants to play one another and see who wins? Oh wait, that's exactly what the other 150 Koreans lined up outside are waiting to do =/

I think the system could be improved by implementing the following changes:

1) Four slots are “reserved” in advance for foreigners, but there is no guarantee that all of them will be used up for any given tournament
2) EVERYONE plays the qualifiers (Korean top 200 + all foreigners). Any foreigner who makes the top twelve qualifies as normal
3) Based on performance in the qualifiers, additional foreigner spots can be awarded as Gom sees fit. For example, if a foreigner was particularly impressive or made the final round but didn't make the cut (ala Torch in GSL March), then Gom can award them a special foreigner wildcard slot
4) Any unused foreigner slots are given to the next placed Koreans in the qualification tournament

Qualifyin' ain't easy...

So for example, if one foreigner qualifies and two more make the final round, then two of the four reserved slots could be given to those players, and the other two passed on to the next placed Koreans. But if no foreigners qualify and only one performs impressively, then maybe for that season only one of the foreigner seeds should be used and the remaining slots should all be given to Korean qualifiers. Will this result in an overall decrease in the number of foreign Code A participants? Probably yes, but in my opinion, the point of the foreigner seeding in the first place is to offer places to top players who may otherwise face difficulty getting through the qualifiers. It should NOT become an automatic backdoor entry for players who never deserved to be there in the first place.

I feel that this system would offer a lot more legitimacy to the whole process, and in some ways it's also better for the top foreign players. If you come to Korea and make it through the qualifying tournament then you're going to feel like a fucking baller and go into Code A with a lot more confidence than you would if you were given a free pass. If you don't make it through the qualifiers but are given a wildcard seed then at least both you and Gom have a good idea of where you stand in relation to the Korean qualifiers, and the qualification process itself gives newcomers a chance to experience playing under pressure. From a Korean player's perspective, it proves that foreigners being offered Code A spots are legit because even if they didn't make it through qualification, they first had to show that they are capable of competing at that level in order to earn a place.

Just my two cents, and I'm interested to see what everyone else thinks about the foreigner seeds and the Code A qualification process.

The NASL

Obviously, the announcement of the NASL is a huge step forward for ESPORTS in the Western world, and I really hope that it will be successful. For me, the most surprising thing about the whole announcement was that the group stages will be played online rather than offline. I guess I was vastly mistaken, but I had always assumed that the NASL would be played entirely at a designated venue (in the US), and that players would therefore have to travel to participate.

I can see the merit of the system which was decided upon, because it allows a lot of players to participate who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford travel expenses. But at the same time, it opens up a lot of interesting questions. For one, why did Idra decide to leave Korea? The online nature of the NASL means that players living in Korea can compete in the group stages just as if they were living in the US (albeit with some lag). Given that the NASL has yet to even get off the ground, let alone prove itself a success, I can't really fathom why Idra would give up his prestigious Code S spot just to improve server latency for a tournament which doesn't even start until April. As I discussed above, a spot in the GSL is NOT to be taken lightly...it's fucking hard to get there, and a place in Code S is not something that you want to just throw away. I mean, I'm sure that Idra has his reasons, and that financially it might be the best decision for him to move back home, but the timing just seems really weird to me.

Y U no stay in Code S?!

Anyway, the other thing I want to talk about is Korean participation in the NASL. As I already mentioned, the nature of GSL means that there are a lot of talented Korean players without spots in the league, and with no Proleague to train for they don't really have a hell of a lot else to do. When the NASL speculation was first leaked, I thought that we would likely see some of the Korean teams (especially those with foreigner ties) send some of their players over to try their luck in the league. I mean, if you have guys like ST_Bomber or NexPuzzle just sitting around your training house waiting for the next GSL qualification tournament, why not send them over to chase a large prize pool in the US during the downtime?

But as it turned out, travelling is not even going to be an issue. In fact, unless the lag or time difference becomes a major obstacle, there is no reason why Korean players can't compete in the NASL at the same time as they prepare for GSL matches. With Incontrol suggesting that the Korean player quota will be limited to perhaps five, this leaves us with an important question...who exactly should get those spots?

If we base the invites on voting popularity, then we will probably end up with MVP, Nestea, MC and MKP along with one other player. This would be a good result for viewers, but at the same time, if we invite the cream of the Korean players then it's likely that they will just crush the tournament. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but it would seem a bit strange if the finals of all three seasons of the “North American” Starcraft League were fought between two Koreans. Also, some of the local players may not be very happy about these guys essentially using the NASL as a way to make some easy money on the side in addition to their GSL commitment.

"400k? Sure, why not"

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that foreign players are bad, but if guys like Jinro and Idra struggle to take games against these four then it's difficult to imagine them dropping games to foreigners who haven't even trained in Korea, especially when the round robin format of NASL makes it virtually impossible to “get lucky”. And while you can argue that there may not be a huge skill differencial between foreigners and your average Code S player, if you put an elite Code S player like Nestea or MC in a group with nine other foreigners, they are going to (at least) 8-1 it every time, and be even harder to stop once the tournament reaches the best of X playoff stage.

+ Show Spoiler +

Okay, so I wrote this whole thing before today's Code S games, but I think my point still stands even if some of the results so far have been...unexpected.

Another option would be to invite some of the lesser known players from Code S or Code A, which would add Korean interest while at the same time not threatening domination in the same way that the top four guys would. Yet another option would be to disallow GSL players to compete in both leagues simultaneously, which would be unfortunate for people like Jinro and Huk, but would open the door for guys like ST_Bomber or oGsTheSTC, as I had originally envisaged.

I think the broader question here is what is the NASL supposed to represent? Is it designed to pit the world's best against each other? Is it supposed to be a foreigner league with a few token Koreans for representation? What level of prestige will a NASL title hold? How should the NASL be viewed in comparison with GSL? I'm just speculating, but I think the issue of Korean representation is going to become increasingly important as the NASL gains momentum and prestige.

Is this the future of Western ESPORTS?

So there you have it...I guess I did have something to say afterall, or else this wouldn't have become such a huge wall of text. Here's to the next 1000 posts~

(The End)

SushilS

2115 Posts

February 26 2011 10:06 GMT

Insta 5/5.
Also:

GSL might not yet have the popularity of BW Starleagues, but at least they can do better than inviting Dalshabet to perform at their grand final

QFT.

Wunder

United Kingdom2950 Posts

February 26 2011 10:08 GMT

Fantastic post. Congrats on your 1000th post, and I totally agree with you. To the future of eSports~

dapierow

Serbia1316 Posts

February 26 2011 10:13 GMT

brah awsome post brah one of the first long ones Ive read on this website

rift

1819 Posts

February 26 2011 10:16 GMT

Good post, I think it deserves to be in SC2 general. 4 foreigners of 32 code A players isn't that huge, though. Despite everything Gomtv has done though, I can't help but wish we could see SC2 on OGN/MBC...imagine where the game would be then!

Other thoughts:
Idra probably left in part because he's been there so long and wanted to be in the states again.
Foreigner seeds are deserved because of the huge sacrifice the players make simply to be in Korea.
The KR-NA lag is actually a significant hindrance.
+ Show Spoiler +

MVP and NesTea were knocked to the up and down matches recently.

TheSublime

Canada13 Posts

February 26 2011 10:50 GMT

I think the issue of so many able, and skilled Korean's being left out of the GSL will be dealt with over time. I'm sure if the GSL continues to be successful, there will be more large scale tournaments created. I think it all depends on the amount of support it will get will determine the amount of players that can play.

anatem

Romania1369 Posts

February 26 2011 11:12 GMT

great writeup man, really good job for your 1k anniversary

.

you raise some good points, of which i think two are essential

1. taking the gsl for granted.

frankly, this blog made me think about it and you're absolutely right. with all the hiccups, gom did such an amazing job with this tournament that it's easy to lose track of how fresh the scene is and demand 5 years worth of production quality from the get-go.

2. the foreigner issue with the nasl, specifically, the limitation of korean spots.

on the one side you got gom who disfavor korean players in the interest of globalizing e-sports (by giving code a seeds), and on the other you got nasl, who might prevent korean players from participating in their league regardless of so many of them expressing a desire to compete in foreigner tournaments.

it's interesting too, i can understand the fear that korean domination would occur, but then if they do go that route they have to own up to the hypocrisy of calling the skill differential between koreans and foreigners marginal, since realistically the only reason you'd have for limiting korean spots is the fear that they'd tear through the league, since let's be honest, it's not like it would be significantly easier for a korean pro to compete in a usa league than for a westerner to go to korea

as for "but let's not have too many koreans else it wouldn't be the NAsl" argument, i don't buy it; now, they make conflicting statements. do they want an american league with 90% american players, or do they want an international league with the best players available, in which case i think even the top na pros would agree out of 50 players you'd have probably less than 20 americans, the rest being koreans and europeans + moonglade, sen and loner (i mean no disrespect to the na pros by any means, simply judging by results of the known players on the sc2 scene)

and then you need to make room for new up-and-coming players, something that even the gsl with its complex qualification and dual code system is having troubles with - perhaps there's lessons to be learned from how the tsl3 has been organised ?

just expressing some thoughts, i guess we'll live and see how things develop, till then i think we should show confidence in the organizers, sponsors and e-sports personnas invoklved in these initiatives and organisation; i mean people were skeptical of the gsl at first and some initial complaints endured for months, overall i think the scene is shaping up to really boom in the west, and i can see the world of socially accepted e-sports in the near future if the community doesn't fuck it up and organisers have vision and some luck to make it happen

corumjhaelen

France6884 Posts

February 26 2011 11:36 GMT

On February 26 2011 19:06 SushilS wrote:
Insta 5/5.
Also:

Show nested quote +

QFT.

MSL ZvZ final ? With Great in it ? Against idra ? In like the smallest venue ever ?
I mean just look at that commercial :

If Stork had beaten Zero, things would have surely looked different man.
As for GOM quality product, they sure are not at the level of BW leagues, even though they did take steps in the right direction.
The whole Code A/Code S still feels a bit wrong though, I really think someone should be able to get all the way from the prelims to the grand finals.
Stupid format in group is also annoying.
As for idra's reasons, I feel they are also very personal. I'm not sure he does not like the game that much, and maybe homesickness finally caught on.
Nice blog =)

sixfour

England11060 Posts

February 26 2011 14:14 GMT

On February 26 2011 18:55 FuRong wrote:

I feel that this system would offer a lot more legitimacy to the whole process, and in some ways it's also better for the top foreign players. If you come to Korea and make it through the qualifying tournament then you're going to feel like a fucking baller and go into Code A with a lot more confidence than you would if you were given a free pass. If you don't make it through the qualifiers but are given a wildcard seed then at least both you and Gom have a good idea of where you stand in relation to the Korean qualifiers, and the qualification process itself gives newcomers a chance to experience playing under pressure. From a Korean player's perspective, it proves that foreigners being offered Code A spots are legit because even if they didn't make it through qualification, they first had to show that they are capable of competing at that level in order to earn a place.

Just my two cents, and I'm interested to see what everyone else thinks about the foreigner seeds and the Code A qualification process.

Ton of good stuff written here, but just cutting straight to what I want to add to. Basically I think that the GSL is at a bit of a crossroads. When it kicked off, it was more or less the pinnacle of SC2 and I don't think that can be argued. Now, however, there's a very real risk of it just becoming like the BW days, namely because it's so fucking hard for any foreigners to actually make any real money out of Korean SC2 right now. Before GSL3, it wasn't so bad, as everyone's on a level playing field to qualify, and if you're good enough, you could fly over, win qualifiers, and if you make it through far enough you're in code S with a licence to print money.

But now? You suggest that removing the foreigner wildcards might be an idea. If GOM has any intention of this being a truly global league, they absolutely HAVE to keep them. Suppose Idra wanted to go back now, and then had to qualify from the start. Regardless of how good Idra is, at a certain level that I'd suggest everyone that's playing the code A qualifiers is at, it's very, very easy to lose at some stage. Even if he's a 75% favourite to win any single game (obviously this is an over-simplification, get a shit map/positions or some other lol imba qq thing and then it'd fluctuate), he'd lose a best of three 15% of the time. If he needs to win four of these to simply qualify for code A, he fails half the time. Then he needs to win two matches to be in with a chance of qualifying for code S, then win the up/down before he can start earning actual money.

It still requires a ton of outlay (be it from sponsors or whoever) to take a shot at it as a foreigner, and you need to run so good in a extremely high variance setup in order to make it, even if you have an obvious large skill advantage (and I wouldn't say that anyone that isn't Idra/Jinro has that) over the competition. Now throw in that NASL is offering huge amounts of money to play in their tourney, with an arguably weaker field, and there's also MLG about, and various European events, where's the incentive to try without being offered some help in the way of wildcards?

Starcraft isn't at the stage where it's like, say, soccer, where it's better 99% of the time to be on the bench of a good team from a financial standpoint, rather than playing at a lower level for less money. People will follow the cash and where they see the best opportunity to make bank is.