Long time ago i went on http://omegle.com/ - a place where you can chat with strangers. I then end up talking with this guy from India who was an engineer, i then asked him how much he worked per day in hours, and the replay was about 12. This has gotten my brain to spin around.
I have came to the believe that we are working too much and there should be regulation as to how much we can work, why you may ask?
Why would you get a higher salary per hour, if this also means that you are gonna work for more hours? I mean dont people give credits to the sheer fact that they can do whatever they want once their workday is over?
I know in engineering there are deadlines, but why put those deadlines so tight? And i know prolonging a deadline will decrease the competitiveness of the company, but what if all nations could come together and say no one should work 12 hours per day, or even more than 8?
It should be a basic human right to not work more than 8 hours. It should be a right of the earth.
Now you may think that last sentence is wakky, but thats ok, because there is one more thing i have not touched yet: The environment.
As i see it, the destruction of our environment are closely linked together with how much we earn and thus how much we work. If people would earn less they couldnt consume so much as they do, and then we wouldnt destroy our planet like we do.
Also working less means parents will have more time with their children, this means we will have better manners, less people would get banned from TL, and there would be less crime in our society.
Now you may say that i am lazy, and i may be, but that has nothing to do with the content of this blog.
Are we really so confined in our mind that the only things we can do with our time are work, sleep and clean up the house we live in? Thats just wrong in so many ways, but i feel im the only one who can see it.
Also if you watch the movie Crooked E: The Unshredded Truth about Enron there in one of the last scenes + Show Spoiler +
Where you meet the big CEO, i just cant forget this scene, this old greedy man who doesnt know anything than money and you can see that its just one big waste of life. That scene just makes me sad.
If everyone worked less the whole world would make less money meaning things would cost less meaning we would buy the same amount of stuff as we do now.
And how would you apply that everyone only works 8 hours a day? There is no way to regulate that.
For alot of people work is also a way of earning their self esteem. They feel good about the work they do. From there on it's a given they want to do their work correct, and put in more hours if needed.
It is important to not work to much though, you are right about that. But there is no way you could make it happen. There will always be people who will want to work more and will do so.
I'm pretty sure the planet is going to be alright.
And who are you to say what life is about? Why is the pursuit/acquiring wealth such a bad thing? Why is working a bad thing? Why is progress a bad thing? Why are clean streets and new computers and better pharmaceuticals and better satellites and everything else that takes more then 8 hours a day to accomplish well a bad thing?
On July 03 2010 22:50 seppolevne wrote: I'm pretty sure the planet is going to be alright.
And who are you to say what life is about? Why is the pursuit/acquiring wealth such a bad thing? Why is working a bad thing? Why is progress a bad thing? Why are clean streets and new computers and better pharmaceuticals and better satellites and everything else that takes more then 8 hours a day to accomplish well a bad thing?
Lol so if we all worked 8 hours per day we couldnt invent things? Is that what you are saying? comon you can do better than that.
i somewhat agree with your observation that work for the sake of working is pointless, but especially the capitalist society is obsessed with the idea that we must under all circumstances create growth through jobs through increasing demand/consumption.
now here is my problem: as far as i can tell there is no overreaching goal that humanity is striving to achieve by all this work. it is just done to keep the current (broken) system running, but what it really does is that it serves to deplete (use up and turn into profit) all available resources as fast as possible. in other words it serves to deprive ourselves of the value that is "our" planet/environment, destroying it with no regard for anything but money. another thing thats wrong with it, besides of not giving a fuck about whether or not we actually NEED what we produce or working towards a greater goal, is that there can never be enough work for everyone with enough people to pay for that work. why is that? obviously technological progress alone means that the amount of people needed to do a job is continuously decreasing while the effectiveness of production increases (which is a good thing, because less time and resources go to waste). technological progress is at odds with having enough work for everyone.
work is not an end in itself, and you are right in that people dont seem to realize it and some, depending on where you are from, even disagree with it.
even barack obama does. listen to what he says at 2:23.
"too many economies' demand for goods and services is still too weak."
isnt it strange? i always thought that we are consuming too much, carelessly, and thats why our planet turns to shit. yet very powerful people whos primary concern should not be to make money (ie politicians, as opposed to ceos of huge companies) hold positions like this.
On July 03 2010 22:13 exeexe wrote: Are we really so confined in our mind that the only things we can do with our time are work, sleep and clean up the house we live in? Thats just wrong in so many ways, but i feel im the only one who can see it.
Thanks for enlightening the rest of the flock You're deluded to think these ideas are new and original.
Try telling a scientist or an artist that he can't work more than 8 hours a day. Or the enterpreneur working on his life's dream. Or just anyone who actually loves what he does.
Yes, a lot of people work too much, believing that they need more money to be happy, when the stress and lack of free time actually makes them miserable. I wish they realized it and worked less but ultimately it's their choice (if it isn't then I agree it's terrible).
I thought working more than an 8 hour day (sometimes over 8 hours but not always, depends on what the company your working for is doing/deadlines) was pretty standard for most high paying jobs. Although i think for most jobs, at least in America can't really say about the rest of the world, any extra hours you do outside of your annual salary get put into your vacation days. so i guess its not as bad as it seems.
On July 03 2010 22:48 JohannesH wrote: Yeah, it makes no sense that despite all the technological advancements in past years/decades, that doesnt really give people more free time at all...
There will always be something new to work on. All of these new technologies mean nothing except possibly to give us more ambition to work harder.
On July 03 2010 22:13 exeexe wrote: Are we really so confined in our mind that the only things we can do with our time are work, sleep and clean up the house we live in? Thats just wrong in so many ways, but i feel im the only one who can see it.
Thanks for enlightening the rest of the flock You're deluded to think these ideas are new and original.
Lol
On July 03 2010 22:13 exeexe wrote: Why would you get a higher salary per hour, if this also means that you are gonna work for more hours? I mean dont people give credits to the sheer fact that they can do whatever they want once their workday is over?
Simply put, when people get paid for the amount of work done, and not the pay, they tend to do things that are worse for companies overall. Firstly they produce lower quality work, as their primary goal is to just get the work done as quickly as possible to make the most money. Secondly they feel their employment is unfair. Eg. Rob gets paid 20$ to set up the network for the company and it takes him ten hours. Janet answers the phone three times and gets paid 20$. Rob will feel like he is being cheated. Anyone who's read the Prince knows that people don't like to be cheated of their money.
Incentive based pay only exists in the sales industry as only here is profit directly tied to a measurable quality of work of a salesperson.
I know in engineering there are deadlines, but why put those deadlines so tight? And i know prolonging a deadline will decrease the competitiveness of the company, but what if all nations could come together and say no one should work 12 hours per day, or even more than 8?
The company can not just increase the duration of a project because it means that they will make a smaller profit margin. Paying the employees is hard enough as it is. A company that does this will be unable to compete with its rivals.
All nations will never agree to make a law saying that people can only work for 8 hours. Nation's politics are in a survival of the fittest condition, where the countries that have an inferior way of making money, generally lose out to the ones that have a good way of making money.
Even if one could magically wish for it to be done, expect people to work more than 8 hours of their own volition illegally.
This blog does raise an interesting question for me. I want to know how, if I were a boss, I would get the most out of my employees.
From What I understand, employees will goof off whenever possible, it's only natural to conserve energy as our ancestors did it to survive. I can't pay by the amount of work done, because then the employees will think I am cheating them. Therefore I would have to be able to watch my employees to make sure that they were working, and to set reasonable deadlines(when people are paid by the hour they have no incentive to finish work sooner). I would have to randomly pick out some of their work to review to make sure that they were doing it properly.
Why shouldn't someone be allowed to sell 12 hours of their labor a day? Some people actually like their jobs.
It is extremely competitive in places like India and China and that's what you have to do if you want a decent job. Young engineers in China make a fraction of what they would in the US and work a heck of a lot more. I'm just glad that people like us have won the genetic lottery so we get better opportunities. Like actually having the option to make a living without working 12 hours a day.
"Also working less means parents will have more time with their children... ...there would be less crime in our society." Crime is most prevalent in people under the poverty line.
I don't think you realize how important deadlines matter. How often does your house lose electricity? You can thank all the planners who spent the last year organizing, the maintenance engineers who spent months decided what parts needed and ordering parts half a year to a year ahead of time, and the technicians working around the clock during the 2 week to month long maintenance outage to keep the plant running. They HAVE to finish their maintenance in that time. The companies delivering the millions of dollars in parts HAVE to meet their delivery dates. Otherwise, people go without electricity for extended periods of time and electricity sure as heck makes everyone's life easier.
Apply that to pretty much any industry and then you realize why everything runs so smoothly in first-world countries. And of course all of this is market-driven. If people don't care about having power 24/7, then power plants would be making a lot less money, spending less money on their employees, be down more often, etc.
even if there was a rule that limited a work day to 8 hours, those workers who want to go the extra mile (for a promotion, to meet a deadline, etc) will take their work home. how can you regulate what people do at home?
On July 03 2010 23:30 hypercube wrote: Try telling a scientist or an artist that he can't work more than 8 hours a day. Or the enterpreneur working on his life's dream. Or just anyone who actually loves what he does.
Yes, a lot of people work too much, believing that they need more money to be happy, when the stress and lack of free time actually makes them miserable. I wish they realized it and worked less but ultimately it's their choice (if it isn't then I agree it's terrible).
With 8 hours per day at work there will be more scientists and enterpreneurs ready to do work for the company. The long workday scares a lot of people away. Like if 100/120 students starts at the university only 40/50 will make it through. Think of it as in 120 who had the dream of being an engineer and 70 dreams that got destroyed. Its a big waste right there.
KK
So with more people avialable for the engineering jobs there can be shifts. Engineer A arrives at 0700 goes home 1500 and Engineer B comes at 1500 and go home at 2300. thats 16 hours of work, and thats possible because there will be more engineers, and thats possible because there will be robots doing the manual jobs which only requirre none or low education.
To put it with some graphics:
M = a man R = robots
old times: low skilled jobs: MMMMMMMMMMM = 11*8 hours = 88 manhours high skilled jobs: MM = 2*12 hours = 24 manhours
Now with 8 hour work day: low skilled jobs: RRRRRRMMMMMM = proberbly even more than 88 manhours high skilled jobs: MMMMMMM = 7*8 hours = 56 manhours
Now with 12 hour work day: low skilled jobs: RRRRRRMMMMMM = proberbly even more than 88 manhours high skilled jobs: MM = 2*12 hours = 24 manhours Unemployed: MMMMMM = waste
However following this doesnt solve the environment problem though.
EPT
You're deluded to think these ideas are new and original.
