Epiphany! Suddenly I realized how I can improve my win-ratio in TvP!

When trying to pull off ghost-EMP-drops on clumps of Templars, I should load a marauder or something equally tanky to drop first so that his 3-4 Colossus automatically don´t one-shot your Ghost before I can get the clutch EMPs off.

I failed a couple of those today (approximately 1/4 currently pays off) and ended up losing in some very close games, dropping that Marauder first to tank would have surely resulted in a win in many of those games instead.

musai

Canada552 Posts

May 30 2013 00:22 GMT

they have so little AA you can drop ghosts on them? O_o

Provocateur

Sweden1665 Posts

May 30 2013 00:26 GMT

Not to crap on your strategy or anything but wouldn't it be more reliable to just flank with a couple of ghosts as opposed to dropping them?

Glaive

Sweden138 Posts

May 30 2013 00:38 GMT

On May 30 2013 09:22 musai wrote:
they have so little AA you can drop ghosts on them? O_o

Speed boosted Medivacs can get in there and unload even before Blink Stalkers have time to shoot them down, most Protoss don´t expect it either. Even if they do it´s hard to not miss a single Medivac and react in time, every time. It´s only 1 Ghost and 1 Medivac (and in the future 1 Marauder, as well). Hardly any investment when both players are maxed. When there have been none or only two Colossus, I have taken out up to 6-8 High Templars with a single Ghost, and ended the game immidiately in one fell swoop on several occasions.

On May 30 2013 09:26 Provocateur wrote:
Not to crap on your strategy or anything but wouldn't it be more reliable to just flank with a couple of ghosts as opposed to dropping them?

If the Protoss has good position it can be impossible to flank with ghosts. But you of course try to do that as well, you usually end up trading Ghosts for Templars pretty evently though if you are vs an equally skilled opponent.

Whereas one successful EMP-drop when you notice the Protoss has a few HTs clumped up in an area he thinks is safe, often times straight up win you games. I learned this move from watching Demuslim´s stream recently. And I remember trying it back in WoL beta, but it was not nearly as effective without the Speed Boost. I´ve also seen several Terrans pull this off in the GSL. Of course, it has failed more times than it has been successful (you only need one to land on a couple of HTs to really get an edge though).

Only the addition of the Marauder part was "my strategy". The move has already proven to be super effective, in the right situations, even on a pro level. I´m just trying to increase it´s success rate! One of those things I think might actually become standard if Speed Boost remains unchanged.

Agree?

AnachronisticAnarchy

United States2957 Posts

May 30 2013 02:13 GMT

What league are you pulling this off in?

Glaive

Sweden138 Posts

May 30 2013 02:58 GMT

Short answer "Very High Masters", I spoke with Thorzain said he´d try it out at an even higher level for me, as I´m not yet there myself, and report back if successful there too.

Longer answer:

I´m a former Wc3 progamer who decided to try to go pro playing Sc2 ~2 months ago, I have much practice ahead of me still. But have improved at a far quicker pace than I had imagined. If you want to follow my progress you can just check back on this blog, this is one of the places where I´ll be blogging until my website goes live next week.

I´m currently residing in "very High Masters", facing the occasional GM but I haven´t tried this vs one yet. I´m actually fairly confident this will at least be seen tried by a pro as soon as someone else who is playing Sc2 full time thinks about it, or my thread gets re-openened. It just makes so much sense it might even become popular/standard until Protoss just NEVER clump their Templars anymore, ever.

WolfintheSheep

Canada14127 Posts

May 30 2013 03:06 GMT

Don't know why you guys are ragging on this so hard. Warp Prisms loaded with Templar have been a somewhat common (but not prevalent) micro trick in pro PvT for awhile. Don't see why the opposite wouldn't work just as well, especially since Medivacs are so much faster.

Granted, it's always dependent on having the micro first...and not losing your medivac to a single feedback or something.

Djzapz

Canada10681 Posts

May 30 2013 03:12 GMT

It's a high risk high reward kind of thing. I tend to operate on the safer side because relying on tricks, at least in my opinion, is not a good idea.

Casters would kill for that, though. Something exciting in SC2 would be nice.

Glaive

Sweden138 Posts

May 30 2013 03:16 GMT

On May 30 2013 12:06 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Don't know why you guys are ragging on this so hard. Warp Prisms loaded with Templar have been a somewhat common (but not prevalent) micro trick in pro PvT for awhile. Don't see why the opposite wouldn't work just as well, especially since Medivacs are so much faster.

Granted, it's always dependent on having the micro first...and not losing your medivac to a single feedback or something.

Thank you! <3

I don´t either know either, this isn´t even that uncommon. Ghost drops are already being executed in Code S for instance (though few successful), just not with the marauder - making it unviable vs a Protoss composition that includes 3 or more Colossus as the ghost insta-dies no matter how fast you are trying to get the EMP off.

I built a career on making unconventional things work with exceptional micro. That´s why I was known as "ThatGlaiveGuy", it wouldn´t be the first time professionals adopted some of the things I´ve proven works at a pro level.

I have an idea for a video that will show you exactly what difference the Marauder does in these situations. I´ll post it later tonight or tomorrow at the latest so check back then for the "evidence" that I think my thread was closed for lacking.

On May 30 2013 12:12 Djzapz wrote:
It's a high risk high reward kind of thing. I tend to operate on the safer side because relying on tricks, at least in my opinion, is not a good idea.

Casters would kill for that, though. Something exciting in SC2 would be nice.

If you consider 1 Medivac, 1 Ghost and 1 Marauder for the potential gain of 6-8 Templars (situational) high risk, then yes. Preferably the Medivac should be out of energy or EMPd before you go in so that Feedback can´t come into play.
Also remember that this is meant for the lategame, where you are both maxed and on at least 3-4 bases. Imagine a player of Innovations caliber pulling a Ghost drop off in the finals of a GSL and immidiately crushing an engagement and winning because of it. That would be the Starcraft-moment of the year probably.

Another excellent point! Moves like this is what I LOVED about casually watching Brood War inbetween my Wc3 matches at LAN events. Some Zeppelin micro existed in Wc3, but it was nowhere near as exciting.

Kashll

United States1117 Posts

May 30 2013 07:05 GMT

#10

You have the APM to correctly micro a TvP battle against a protoss with templar + collosus + archon composition and still do ghost drops with a marauder first?

I'll be looking for your name in the GSL.

Glaive

Sweden138 Posts

May 30 2013 07:35 GMT

#11

On May 30 2013 16:05 Kashll wrote:
You have the APM to correctly micro a TvP battle against a protoss with templar + collosus + archon composition and still do ghost drops with a marauder first?

I'll be looking for your name in the GSL.

Well, I´m kinda shit now compared to my potential, since I haven´t played since WoL beta, and even then only a little bit. Before then only Wc3. You should have seen me and SaSe dance Huntresses in Night Elf vs Night Elf. That was the ultimate test of real micro. This is a cakewalk compared to that.

But why don´t you watch this battle and judge for yourself if you think I can pull that off

I tried to get in a supreme lategame situation where I could experiment with this vs a High Master protoss.

Battle starts @2:30, and then I show what happens when you drop without a Marauder at the end of it around @8 min. Then my internet connection crapped out and stream crashed when I did the all the successful ones with Marauder. But I think you can image just how it will play out differently.

http://www.twitch.tv/gglaive/b/409963414

Sorry about the low quality btw, temporary stream until website is launched where I can edit and host my own videos.

Maybe one day, but you should perhaps maybe morea realistically be looking for my name in the the Challenger league - even though I´m pretty shit now and have much practice ahead of me. I have done this before. Grubby said himself on State of the Game #93 (I believe, with ToD and mOOnGLaDe), in a conversation about Nerchio, that skills fairly easily translate if you are motivated enough to learn the new skill-set required in the new game.

I might just blog a bit on my thoughts about my realistic potential. Thanks for the idea mate.

If my sarcasm detector needs tweeking and you were actually serious at all:

You can watch out and follow me either on this blog, but I would also appreciate you guys liking the Facebook page the I finally created two days ago.

https://www.facebook.com/ThatGlaiveGuy

Glaive

Sweden138 Posts

May 30 2013 08:05 GMT

#12

Just from that little sequence alone I can take away that I still sometimes get too lost in getting every last bit out of my units at the expense of my macro. Microing those red HP marauders around, evacing them in Medivacs. Instead of just retreating, remaxing faster than him and likely crushing the next battle even more convincingly than I did there.

You can learn a lot from watching your own stream a little bit and not just analyze replays, not that I wouldn´t have noticed this from the replay. But it´s easier to catch all those little things that you need to be aware of the fact that they distract you from macroing. Either get good enough to do both or be damn sure you´re going to get value out of it. Personally I´m doing a lot of Marine Split challenge warmups before every session and various different exercises in accuracy to improve my speed to the level it was when I was competing internationally.

Anyway, I´ll record the videos tomorrow or so. Just as soon as my internet is stable again.

Edit:

~6:30 Marine split warmup http://www.twitch.tv/gglaive/b/409862025

Perhaps a better representation of my current speed and accuracy, I still feel extremely slow, sluggish and inaccurate compared to when I was in the shape of my life. But I´m happy with noticing slow and steady improvement with each day.

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