• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:44
CEST 05:44
KST 12:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris34Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
A Eulogy for the Six Pool BoxeR's Wings Episode 2 - Fan Translation Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away
Tourneys
$5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below
Brood War
General
Post ASL20 Ro24 discussion. BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ No Rain in ASL20? How do I speak directly to Coinbase?1-(888)-419-97 Recent recommended BW games
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group F [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! [ASL20] Ro24 Group D [ASL20] Ro24 Group E
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The year 2050 European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2308 users

Defence Maps Damage Optimization

Blogs > Hidden_MotiveS
Post a Reply
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
May 04 2011 04:01 GMT
#1
Have you ever played a starcraft defence map and wondered whether you should build more units or upgrade your units attack in order to increase their damage output?

[image loading]
How do you turn lights off?


Well wonder no further!

The damage output of all of your units can be expressed as a simple formula

number_of_units * (base_damage_of_unit + damage_increase_per_upgrade * number_of_upgrades)

The total cost of all of your units can be expressed as the sum of the costs of all the units you build, and the sum of the costs of all of your upgrades.

total cost = cost_of_all_units + cost_of_all_upgrades

The cost of all of your units is just the cost of one unit times the number of units you build

cost_of_all_units = cost_of_one_unit * number_of_units

The cost of the upgrades can vary. Assuming that the costs of the upgrades increases arithmetically, (1,2,3,4,5 minerals for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th upgrades) then the total cost of all your upgrades can be expressed as the (sum of the first term plus the sum of the second term) times half the number of terms.

aside**
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Gauss was the original G-unit. Look at him.
I bet he wasn't afraid to divide by zero.


Professors often talk about how kid Gauss figured out this mathematical phenomena.
See teachers in the 1800's were really really lazy. They were so lazy in fact, that Gauss's elementary school teacher, told his students to add up the first 100 whole numbers, while he went to take a nap. As the others students scurrilously started adding numbers on their papers, Gauss figured out that, adding 1 and 100, produced the same result as adding 2 and 99. He just added the sum of 1 and 100 and multiplied by the number of pairs of number he would have.

He figured out the sum of the first 100 whole numbers (5050), woke his teacher up from his nap, and went on to develop lots of ways to torment engineering students taking electromagnetics courses.

[image loading]
Though best known as the inventor of the gauss rifle, gauss also did a lot of math in his spare time.



cost_of_all_upgrades = number_of_upgrades / 2 * (sum_of_first_and_last_upgrade)

and sum_of_first_and_last_upgrade can be defined as number_of_upgrades + 1 (the first upgrade costs one mineral, and the last one costs the same amount as the number of upgrades you've gotten).

Knowing all this, you can optimize damage with respect to cost by putting all the equations together.

{damage}/{cost} = { number_of_units * (base_damage_of_unit + damage_increase_per_upgrade * number_of_upgrades) } / { [ cost_of_one_unit * number_of_units ] + [ number_of_upgrades / 2 * (number_of_upgrades + 1) ] }

Now you break out your handy excel spreadsheet!... What you don't have a handy excel spreadsheet? Fine... you can borrow mine.
It tells you when you should upgrade and when you should build. If only you'll fill in some numbers.

I understand that damage calculations have lots of confounding variables, such as splash damage, range, or the speed of projectiles. I made this blog mainly to get a 1000th post. Theorycrafting can be useful for things like saturation calculations but that's a bit more complicated.

I personally don't play defence maps. There are too many newbies who make you lose. The only defence maps I play are SAT control, and ones where I can play individually.

ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 04 2011 04:26 GMT
#2
1000

Man that lights on lights off thing was great. Whoever thought of using that to exploit BW was a friggin genius and made me waste so much of my time in high school
Jaedong :3
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 04:48:40
May 04 2011 04:48 GMT
#3
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
LaSt)ChAnCe
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States2179 Posts
May 04 2011 05:00 GMT
#4
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(


in sc2 we don't need glitches to cannon stack
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 04 2011 05:02 GMT
#5
On May 04 2011 14:00 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(


in sc2 we don't need glitches to cannon stack


Game was SOOO much more fun with the lights thing.
1) Clueless people were clueless. People confused is always fun.
2) When lights are off, you can't attack so it requires speed and precise building execution.

definitely more fun. tower defense games already require so little apm and with no glitches its less fun lol
Jaedong :3
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
May 04 2011 06:31 GMT
#6
On May 04 2011 13:26 ReketSomething wrote:
1000

Man that lights on lights off thing was great. Whoever thought of using that to exploit BW was a friggin genius and made me waste so much of my time in high school


Evil genius maybe. I saw it in melee games before ums.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
May 04 2011 07:03 GMT
#7
SAT control was fun.
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
kOre
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada3642 Posts
May 04 2011 07:07 GMT
#8
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(

SC2 people + some BW people will never know about Hydra stacking ... lol 1 Hydra somehow does 1000 damage ... lol
http://www.starcraftmecca.net - Founder
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 07:45:05
May 04 2011 07:44 GMT
#9
On May 04 2011 16:07 kOre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(

SC2 people + some BW people will never know about Hydra stacking ... lol 1 Hydra somehow does 1000 damage ... lol


Man, SC2 people will never know how to morph lurkers from zerglings, or turn zerglings into mutas
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
LaSt)ChAnCe
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States2179 Posts
May 04 2011 08:09 GMT
#10
or how to make drones fly
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
May 04 2011 08:43 GMT
#11
With Galaxy Editor, anything is possible.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11865 Posts
May 04 2011 09:38 GMT
#12
Building stacking is possible in sc2, seen it in several UMS maps. I think zillion zerglings make use of it.
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
May 04 2011 10:03 GMT
#13
On May 04 2011 17:43 eviltomahawk wrote:
With Galaxy Editor, anything is possible.


and you could do jack all with staredit, which made lights out so awesome
starleague forever
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 11:50:45
May 04 2011 11:49 GMT
#14
Now that i remember there was a weird cannon stack hack in melee too. I think it got patched around 2006

One guy used it against me in a 2v2 Lt noob back then. I was completly clueless, i didn't even know how to cannon stack in UMS haha. Too bad that guy sucked and my ally killed him lol.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
SEL S2 Championship: Ro16
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 160
RuFF_SC2 131
ProTech101
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 76
Aegong 57
Icarus 13
Dota 2
monkeys_forever605
NeuroSwarm70
League of Legends
JimRising 684
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K345
Other Games
summit1g9444
shahzam1050
C9.Mang0433
WinterStarcraft393
ViBE115
Hui .92
Mew2King45
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL2496
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 23
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo858
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
7h 16m
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Cure vs Rogue
Classic vs HeRoMaRinE
Cosmonarchy
12h 16m
OyAji vs Sziky
Sziky vs WolFix
WolFix vs OyAji
Big Brain Bouts
12h 16m
Iba vs GgMaChine
TriGGeR vs Bunny
Reynor vs Classic
Serral vs Clem
BSL Team Wars
15h 16m
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
15h 16m
Team Hawk vs Team Bonyth
Code For Giants Cup
18h 46m
SC Evo League
1d 8h
TaeJa vs Cure
Rogue vs threepoint
ByuN vs Creator
MaNa vs Classic
Maestros of the Game
1d 12h
ShoWTimE vs Cham
GuMiho vs Ryung
Zoun vs Spirit
Rogue vs MaNa
[BSL 2025] Weekly
1d 14h
SC Evo League
2 days
[ Show More ]
Maestros of the Game
2 days
SHIN vs Creator
Astrea vs Lambo
Bunny vs SKillous
HeRoMaRinE vs TriGGeR
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
BSL Team Wars
2 days
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
WardiTV Summer 2025
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
Acropolis #4 - TS1
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
Sisters' Call Cup
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.