• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:08
CET 10:08
KST 18:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview3RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion2Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 104
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 OSC Season 13 World Championship SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1190 users

Defence Maps Damage Optimization

Blogs > Hidden_MotiveS
Post a Reply
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
May 04 2011 04:01 GMT
#1
Have you ever played a starcraft defence map and wondered whether you should build more units or upgrade your units attack in order to increase their damage output?

[image loading]
How do you turn lights off?


Well wonder no further!

The damage output of all of your units can be expressed as a simple formula

number_of_units * (base_damage_of_unit + damage_increase_per_upgrade * number_of_upgrades)

The total cost of all of your units can be expressed as the sum of the costs of all the units you build, and the sum of the costs of all of your upgrades.

total cost = cost_of_all_units + cost_of_all_upgrades

The cost of all of your units is just the cost of one unit times the number of units you build

cost_of_all_units = cost_of_one_unit * number_of_units

The cost of the upgrades can vary. Assuming that the costs of the upgrades increases arithmetically, (1,2,3,4,5 minerals for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th upgrades) then the total cost of all your upgrades can be expressed as the (sum of the first term plus the sum of the second term) times half the number of terms.

aside**
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Gauss was the original G-unit. Look at him.
I bet he wasn't afraid to divide by zero.


Professors often talk about how kid Gauss figured out this mathematical phenomena.
See teachers in the 1800's were really really lazy. They were so lazy in fact, that Gauss's elementary school teacher, told his students to add up the first 100 whole numbers, while he went to take a nap. As the others students scurrilously started adding numbers on their papers, Gauss figured out that, adding 1 and 100, produced the same result as adding 2 and 99. He just added the sum of 1 and 100 and multiplied by the number of pairs of number he would have.

He figured out the sum of the first 100 whole numbers (5050), woke his teacher up from his nap, and went on to develop lots of ways to torment engineering students taking electromagnetics courses.

[image loading]
Though best known as the inventor of the gauss rifle, gauss also did a lot of math in his spare time.



cost_of_all_upgrades = number_of_upgrades / 2 * (sum_of_first_and_last_upgrade)

and sum_of_first_and_last_upgrade can be defined as number_of_upgrades + 1 (the first upgrade costs one mineral, and the last one costs the same amount as the number of upgrades you've gotten).

Knowing all this, you can optimize damage with respect to cost by putting all the equations together.

{damage}/{cost} = { number_of_units * (base_damage_of_unit + damage_increase_per_upgrade * number_of_upgrades) } / { [ cost_of_one_unit * number_of_units ] + [ number_of_upgrades / 2 * (number_of_upgrades + 1) ] }

Now you break out your handy excel spreadsheet!... What you don't have a handy excel spreadsheet? Fine... you can borrow mine.
It tells you when you should upgrade and when you should build. If only you'll fill in some numbers.

I understand that damage calculations have lots of confounding variables, such as splash damage, range, or the speed of projectiles. I made this blog mainly to get a 1000th post. Theorycrafting can be useful for things like saturation calculations but that's a bit more complicated.

I personally don't play defence maps. There are too many newbies who make you lose. The only defence maps I play are SAT control, and ones where I can play individually.

ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 04 2011 04:26 GMT
#2
1000

Man that lights on lights off thing was great. Whoever thought of using that to exploit BW was a friggin genius and made me waste so much of my time in high school
Jaedong :3
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 04:48:40
May 04 2011 04:48 GMT
#3
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
LaSt)ChAnCe
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States2179 Posts
May 04 2011 05:00 GMT
#4
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(


in sc2 we don't need glitches to cannon stack
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 04 2011 05:02 GMT
#5
On May 04 2011 14:00 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(


in sc2 we don't need glitches to cannon stack


Game was SOOO much more fun with the lights thing.
1) Clueless people were clueless. People confused is always fun.
2) When lights are off, you can't attack so it requires speed and precise building execution.

definitely more fun. tower defense games already require so little apm and with no glitches its less fun lol
Jaedong :3
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
May 04 2011 06:31 GMT
#6
On May 04 2011 13:26 ReketSomething wrote:
1000

Man that lights on lights off thing was great. Whoever thought of using that to exploit BW was a friggin genius and made me waste so much of my time in high school


Evil genius maybe. I saw it in melee games before ums.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
May 04 2011 07:03 GMT
#7
SAT control was fun.
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
kOre
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada3642 Posts
May 04 2011 07:07 GMT
#8
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(

SC2 people + some BW people will never know about Hydra stacking ... lol 1 Hydra somehow does 1000 damage ... lol
http://www.starcraftmecca.net - Founder
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 07:45:05
May 04 2011 07:44 GMT
#9
On May 04 2011 16:07 kOre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(

SC2 people + some BW people will never know about Hydra stacking ... lol 1 Hydra somehow does 1000 damage ... lol


Man, SC2 people will never know how to morph lurkers from zerglings, or turn zerglings into mutas
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
LaSt)ChAnCe
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States2179 Posts
May 04 2011 08:09 GMT
#10
or how to make drones fly
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
May 04 2011 08:43 GMT
#11
With Galaxy Editor, anything is possible.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12002 Posts
May 04 2011 09:38 GMT
#12
Building stacking is possible in sc2, seen it in several UMS maps. I think zillion zerglings make use of it.
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
May 04 2011 10:03 GMT
#13
On May 04 2011 17:43 eviltomahawk wrote:
With Galaxy Editor, anything is possible.


and you could do jack all with staredit, which made lights out so awesome
starleague forever
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 11:50:45
May 04 2011 11:49 GMT
#14
Now that i remember there was a weird cannon stack hack in melee too. I think it got patched around 2006

One guy used it against me in a 2v2 Lt noob back then. I was completly clueless, i didn't even know how to cannon stack in UMS haha. Too bad that guy sucked and my ally killed him lol.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
All-Star Invitational
03:00
Day 1
Classic vs ClemLIVE!
Reynor vs Maru
WardiTV1486
PiGStarcraft623
IndyStarCraft 280
BRAT_OK 225
3DClanTV 102
CranKy Ducklings97
EnkiAlexander 45
IntoTheiNu 16
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft623
IndyStarCraft 280
BRAT_OK 225
UpATreeSC 56
MindelVK 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 584
Killer 298
Leta 241
Mong 110
Dewaltoss 102
ToSsGirL 92
Barracks 87
Shuttle 77
BeSt 68
soO 65
[ Show more ]
910 50
Noble 43
Mind 37
Zeus 36
JulyZerg 35
GoRush 28
NotJumperer 17
ivOry 17
Rush 7
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm116
League of Legends
JimRising 626
C9.Mang0528
Other Games
summit1g9920
Fuzer 150
Livibee87
minikerr35
kaitlyn14
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2212
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 50
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH109
• Sammyuel 9
• LUISG 6
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1271
• Stunt485
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2h 52m
AI Arena Tournament
10h 52m
BSL 21
10h 52m
Mihu vs eOnzErG
Dewalt vs Sziky
Bonyth vs DuGu
XuanXuan vs eOnzErG
Dewalt vs eOnzErG
All-Star Invitational
17h 7m
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
OSC
1d 2h
BSL 21
1d 10h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs DuGu
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Big Brain Bouts
6 days
Serral vs TBD
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.