• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:59
CEST 08:59
KST 15:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun11[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists21[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> WardiTV Spring Cup RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8) ASL21 General Discussion [TOOL] Starcraft Chat Translator JaeDong's ASL S21 Ro16 Post-Review Missed out on ASL tickets - what are my options?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 1 ASL Season 21 LIVESTREAM with English Commentary [ASL21] Ro16 Group D
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3110 users

Defence Maps Damage Optimization

Blogs > Hidden_MotiveS
Post a Reply
Hidden_MotiveS
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada2562 Posts
May 04 2011 04:01 GMT
#1
Have you ever played a starcraft defence map and wondered whether you should build more units or upgrade your units attack in order to increase their damage output?

[image loading]
How do you turn lights off?


Well wonder no further!

The damage output of all of your units can be expressed as a simple formula

number_of_units * (base_damage_of_unit + damage_increase_per_upgrade * number_of_upgrades)

The total cost of all of your units can be expressed as the sum of the costs of all the units you build, and the sum of the costs of all of your upgrades.

total cost = cost_of_all_units + cost_of_all_upgrades

The cost of all of your units is just the cost of one unit times the number of units you build

cost_of_all_units = cost_of_one_unit * number_of_units

The cost of the upgrades can vary. Assuming that the costs of the upgrades increases arithmetically, (1,2,3,4,5 minerals for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th upgrades) then the total cost of all your upgrades can be expressed as the (sum of the first term plus the sum of the second term) times half the number of terms.

aside**
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Gauss was the original G-unit. Look at him.
I bet he wasn't afraid to divide by zero.


Professors often talk about how kid Gauss figured out this mathematical phenomena.
See teachers in the 1800's were really really lazy. They were so lazy in fact, that Gauss's elementary school teacher, told his students to add up the first 100 whole numbers, while he went to take a nap. As the others students scurrilously started adding numbers on their papers, Gauss figured out that, adding 1 and 100, produced the same result as adding 2 and 99. He just added the sum of 1 and 100 and multiplied by the number of pairs of number he would have.

He figured out the sum of the first 100 whole numbers (5050), woke his teacher up from his nap, and went on to develop lots of ways to torment engineering students taking electromagnetics courses.

[image loading]
Though best known as the inventor of the gauss rifle, gauss also did a lot of math in his spare time.



cost_of_all_upgrades = number_of_upgrades / 2 * (sum_of_first_and_last_upgrade)

and sum_of_first_and_last_upgrade can be defined as number_of_upgrades + 1 (the first upgrade costs one mineral, and the last one costs the same amount as the number of upgrades you've gotten).

Knowing all this, you can optimize damage with respect to cost by putting all the equations together.

{damage}/{cost} = { number_of_units * (base_damage_of_unit + damage_increase_per_upgrade * number_of_upgrades) } / { [ cost_of_one_unit * number_of_units ] + [ number_of_upgrades / 2 * (number_of_upgrades + 1) ] }

Now you break out your handy excel spreadsheet!... What you don't have a handy excel spreadsheet? Fine... you can borrow mine.
It tells you when you should upgrade and when you should build. If only you'll fill in some numbers.

I understand that damage calculations have lots of confounding variables, such as splash damage, range, or the speed of projectiles. I made this blog mainly to get a 1000th post. Theorycrafting can be useful for things like saturation calculations but that's a bit more complicated.

I personally don't play defence maps. There are too many newbies who make you lose. The only defence maps I play are SAT control, and ones where I can play individually.

ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 04 2011 04:26 GMT
#2
1000

Man that lights on lights off thing was great. Whoever thought of using that to exploit BW was a friggin genius and made me waste so much of my time in high school
Jaedong :3
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 04:48:40
May 04 2011 04:48 GMT
#3
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
LaSt)ChAnCe
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States2179 Posts
May 04 2011 05:00 GMT
#4
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(


in sc2 we don't need glitches to cannon stack
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
May 04 2011 05:02 GMT
#5
On May 04 2011 14:00 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(


in sc2 we don't need glitches to cannon stack


Game was SOOO much more fun with the lights thing.
1) Clueless people were clueless. People confused is always fun.
2) When lights are off, you can't attack so it requires speed and precise building execution.

definitely more fun. tower defense games already require so little apm and with no glitches its less fun lol
Jaedong :3
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
May 04 2011 06:31 GMT
#6
On May 04 2011 13:26 ReketSomething wrote:
1000

Man that lights on lights off thing was great. Whoever thought of using that to exploit BW was a friggin genius and made me waste so much of my time in high school


Evil genius maybe. I saw it in melee games before ums.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
May 04 2011 07:03 GMT
#7
SAT control was fun.
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
kOre
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada3642 Posts
May 04 2011 07:07 GMT
#8
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(

SC2 people + some BW people will never know about Hydra stacking ... lol 1 Hydra somehow does 1000 damage ... lol
http://www.starcraftmecca.net - Founder
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 07:45:05
May 04 2011 07:44 GMT
#9
On May 04 2011 16:07 kOre wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2011 13:48 Boblion wrote:
On May 04 2011 13:01 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:

How do you turn lights off?

Sc2 people will never know about cannon stacking =(

SC2 people + some BW people will never know about Hydra stacking ... lol 1 Hydra somehow does 1000 damage ... lol


Man, SC2 people will never know how to morph lurkers from zerglings, or turn zerglings into mutas
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
LaSt)ChAnCe
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States2179 Posts
May 04 2011 08:09 GMT
#10
or how to make drones fly
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
May 04 2011 08:43 GMT
#11
With Galaxy Editor, anything is possible.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12084 Posts
May 04 2011 09:38 GMT
#12
Building stacking is possible in sc2, seen it in several UMS maps. I think zillion zerglings make use of it.
a176
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada6688 Posts
May 04 2011 10:03 GMT
#13
On May 04 2011 17:43 eviltomahawk wrote:
With Galaxy Editor, anything is possible.


and you could do jack all with staredit, which made lights out so awesome
starleague forever
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-04 11:50:45
May 04 2011 11:49 GMT
#14
Now that i remember there was a weird cannon stack hack in melee too. I think it got patched around 2006

One guy used it against me in a 2v2 Lt noob back then. I was completly clueless, i didn't even know how to cannon stack in UMS haha. Too bad that guy sucked and my ally killed him lol.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 161
ProTech138
Livibee 70
StarCraft: Brood War
Mind 1134
Hm[arnc] 441
Killer 386
Pusan 323
yabsab 48
Bale 27
ZergMaN 15
NotJumperer 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Icarus 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever796
NeuroSwarm163
League of Legends
JimRising 721
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1325
Other Games
summit1g6589
WinterStarcraft589
C9.Mang0516
Sick224
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick522
BasetradeTV186
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream133
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1001
• Stunt459
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 2m
Escore
3h 2m
INu's Battles
4h 2m
Classic vs ByuN
SHIN vs ByuN
OSC
6h 2m
Big Brain Bouts
9h 2m
Replay Cast
17h 2m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
RSL Revival
1d 3h
Classic vs GgMaChine
Rogue vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
1d 4h
IPSL
1d 9h
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
[ Show More ]
BSL
1d 12h
Replay Cast
1d 17h
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
IPSL
2 days
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
Patches Events
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
GSL
5 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
6 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-29
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Escore Tournament S2: W5
KK 2v2 League Season 1
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.