• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:16
CEST 07:16
KST 14:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202543Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments4[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced63
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Official Ladder Map Pool Update (April 28, 2025) Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up Clem Interview: "PvT is a bit insane right now"
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments WardiTV Mondays RSL Season 2 Qualifier Links and Dates StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Global Tourney for College Students in September
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
ASL Season 20 Ro24 Groups Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced BW General Discussion StarCraft player reflex TE scores BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues KCM 2025 Season 3 [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 639 users

SC2 Leagues, Re-imagined

Blogs > Deleted User 135096
Post a Reply
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-12 16:39:55
February 12 2011 16:36 GMT
#1
So a few weeks back when the Master League was launched I got to see the master league icon up close and really had a strong reaction to it (see negative), so I decided to go and fabricate my own to see what it would look like being more in tandem (albeit loosely) with Blizzards current design scheme. This was the result. Not the greatest of renditions, but hey, I was curious.

In working on it I got some feedback and starting thinking about this myself, but what would it look like if I took the leagues and reworked them into a more consistent representation overall. My main thought was that I wondered why Blizzard hadn't taken point from so many military organizations on the planet, as their design aesthetic seemed sporadic. In one sense it was somewhat unique (what they were likely looking for), but in most ways it was merely a homogenization of many different 'levels' (some sport, some military), and had no real core trajectory. This was my starting point.

When I began to think about how to divide the leagues appropriately, I looked at ELO and how their distribution worked. The first thing I noticed was that there were far more divisions of skill. Oddly enough, this mirrored my own thoughts about the leagues in sc2, in that there either weren't enough of them, or at least not enough clear enough divisions of skill (1000's of divisions on the other hand I feel is a little ridiculous, but beside the point). So I took the ELO and played around with the relative levels and tried to work around a system that I felt was concise enough without being too confusing, but still with enough tiers that skills would be more accurately represented.

Eventually I divided the system into 3 tiers: beginners (0-840), moderately skilled players (841-1960), and very skilled players (1961-2800). I then further divided them into 3, 4 (or 2 and 2), and 3 parts so that there would be a total of 10 divisions, housed within the overall three. Once completed, I then tried to see if I could correlate these tiers with the global percentages, following sc2ranks as a base so that I could try to show the distribution so that they could be somewhat compared with the current rankings. Here is the end result:

Full League Distribution (note: click on each image for a larger view)
[image loading]


DISCLAIMER: I should state plainly that all of the following numbers/calculations are an approximation and are in no way accurate (some choices were arbitrary, others educated guesswork), it's just to show what an approximate distribution might look like. I should also note that I don't know if the ELO distribution and the approximate percentages are remotely accurate to one another. If someone more qualified than I would be willing to do a more accurate calculation for this (if possible), that would be awesome.


Breakdown by Tier:

Tier 3 (~82.6% of the population)
[image loading]
[45.3% = 3,225,017]: ~0-280 ELO
[20.2% = 1,438,087]: ~281-560 ELO
[16.9% = 1,203,152]: ~561-840 ELO

Tier 2 (~17.28%)
[image loading]
[6.48% = 461,327]: ~841-1120 ELO
[5.4% = 384,439]: ~1121-1400 ELO
[3.24% = 230,664]: ~1401-1680 ELO
[2.16% = 153,776]: ~1681-1960 ELO

Tier 1 (~.32%, Master Tier)
[image loading]
Master [.2% = 14,238]: ~1961-2240 ELO
Senior Master [.1% = 7,119]: ~2241-2520 ELO
Grand Master [.02% = 1,439 - approx. top 200 in each region]: ~2521-2800 ELO

So this was far more than what I originally set out to do, simply re-imagine the visualization of the ranks, though I did find it interesting to try to see how the two systems might compare with one another. Unfortunately, I couldn't come up with a good nomenclature for the system save for the top tier, which seemed somewhat obvious. I wanted to stay away from iCCup rankings to avoid confusion, but perhaps something along those lines would function best (G-A, then Maser Tier). Finally I should mention that this was simply an idea of mine, I don't expect that the status quo will change anytime soon (or ever) as that's not how Blizzard generally operates, but hey, one can wish right?


**
Administrator
QuixoticO
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Netherlands810 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-12 16:56:55
February 12 2011 16:55 GMT
#2
We can wish indeed tho considering Blizzard is currently using 2%/18%/20%/20%/20% I doubt they'll ever go with a ranking system like this :'[. They should add a system like this for Master League only so all the "casual" players don't get effected and all the "elite" players can enjoy their own extra layer of rankings.

Hopefully Blizzard will release their new icons soon since they said they would change em up to reflect your rank in the division. Still waiting for these Master League icons.

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
"Suum Cuique" - Cicero
ReketSomething
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6012 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-12 16:59:51
February 12 2011 16:57 GMT
#3
Stop doing things that make sense. We would rather have a random system with random materials (except masters) Maybe they will get rid of bronze league and add grand masters league or something who knows.

And having something based on ELO makes a lot of sense but at the same time, it shows how good a player is. The point of blizzards system is to make players feel good. Seeing their ELO go up and down can negatively influence a player whereas having a 2K bonus pool and constantly increasing in points (and the fact that the lowest league is "bronze" which is a medal...and therefore something noteworthy).

Apparently blizzard believes people want to see their rating go up, not a ELO system where numbers mean something, that is a 1500 elo vs. a 1200 elo mathematically has a X% chance of winning vs. the other whereas in Blizzards system you have no clue. Having no clue makes people feel less inferior.

I think your icons look really baller by the way. One can wish.

edit: the other problem is that since previous data is stored in the system, the fact is that blizzards fuck up is hard to fix. they would have to publicly announce that they fucked up and revamp the whole thing. Also, when one looks at a players "past seasons" record, everyone will get confused

"why is this guy platinum and now grand masters?"
Jaedong :3
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
February 12 2011 17:00 GMT
#4
Honestly the first thing I thought of when I saw that was Call of Duty, I don't think that people want that much of a change into the system. The icons look real nice though.
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
Rotodyne
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
United States2263 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-12 17:07:15
February 12 2011 17:06 GMT
#5
On February 13 2011 02:00 Whiplash wrote:
Honestly the first thing I thought of when I saw that was Call of Duty, I don't think that people want that much of a change into the system. The icons look real nice though.


Well we definitely want masters league separated into at least like 5 divisions. maybe based on MMR ?
I can only play starcraft when I am shit canned. IPXZERG is a god.
limonovich
Profile Joined September 2010
England226 Posts
February 12 2011 17:26 GMT
#6
Don't care about icons, just want to see MMR.
trololo
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-13 04:28:26
February 12 2011 18:21 GMT
#7
On February 13 2011 01:57 ReketSomething wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Stop doing things that make sense. We would rather have a random system with random materials (except masters) Maybe they will get rid of bronze league and add grand masters league or something who knows.

And having something based on ELO makes a lot of sense but at the same time, it shows how good a player is. The point of blizzards system is to make players feel good. Seeing their ELO go up and down can negatively influence a player whereas having a 2K bonus pool and constantly increasing in points (and the fact that the lowest league is "bronze" which is a medal...and therefore something noteworthy).

Apparently blizzard believes people want to see their rating go up, not a ELO system where numbers mean something, that is a 1500 elo vs. a 1200 elo mathematically has a X% chance of winning vs. the other whereas in Blizzards system you have no clue. Having no clue makes people feel less inferior.

I think your icons look really baller by the way. One can wish.

edit: the other problem is that since previous data is stored in the system, the fact is that blizzards fuck up is hard to fix. they would have to publicly announce that they fucked up and revamp the whole thing. Also, when one looks at a players "past seasons" record, everyone will get confused

"why is this guy platinum and now grand masters?"

I applaud your use of sarcasm sir. I do agree however that fixing the inherent problem would be tricky. My feeling though would be, well, SC:BW lasted 12+ years, so assuming the SC2 lasts this long then changing the design even a year into it's release is relatively ok..

On February 13 2011 Rotodyne wrote:Well we definitely want masters league separated into at least like 5 divisions. maybe based on MMR ?

I originally had Masters broken into 4 tiers but for some reason decided to remove this first one
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]


On February 13 2011 02:26 limonovich wrote: Don't care about icons, just want to see MMR.

Man do I wish they would just show us our actual rating, I just think that it was also kind of silly that the visualizations are somewhat meaningless right now.
Administrator
loving it
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada271 Posts
February 12 2011 19:20 GMT
#8
Its a great idea. However they hide MMR for a reason. They're trying to not make this game seem intimidating with ELOs and all that.

I'd gladly support this, maybe some colour into those icons will be make it better?
Stay gold.
HwangjaeTerran
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Finland5967 Posts
February 12 2011 20:46 GMT
#9
Uhh, This reminds me of the Duty Calls system.

I'd like a more simple approach:
1. 99.5 % = "Lolnoob"
2. 99.5% - 99.98% = "Noob"
3. 99.98% - 99.999% = "Can Play"
4. 99.999% + = "Pretty good"

Icons could be little L,N,C and P with colors and glitter.
https://steamcommunity.com/id/*tlusernamehere*/
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-12 21:51:30
February 12 2011 21:46 GMT
#10
On February 13 2011 05:46 HwangjaeTerran wrote:
Uhh, This reminds me of the Duty Calls system...

Yes, that would probably be because CoD follows the American military (Marines/Army) in it's rank divisions. A sergeant will always have 3 chevrons. You can't really get away from the variations on theme either, if you look at a USA sergeant vs. a British sergeant, they share the same 3 chevrons.

Also lol's, I'm assuming you mean percentiles instead of %.
Administrator
RyanRushia
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2748 Posts
February 12 2011 22:32 GMT
#11
pretty flippin cool icons... and yea i think a base elo would be better system to go through
I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. | coL.Ryan | www.twitter.com/coL_RyanR
Kinky
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States4126 Posts
February 12 2011 23:29 GMT
#12
I really agree that there's more levels of skills than leagues. In the old iccup system there were 14 ranks if I'm counting correctly, from E all the way to the olympic rank. Blizzard's system is so muddled that it's hard to take anything from it.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
February 13 2011 02:29 GMT
#13
Although I do agree about this approach, I think there should be a greater number of divisions in the upper tiers, especially considering that it is where the majority of D level and upwards of people from iCCup usually reside. The approach would be nice for the lower leagues, though the opinion that Plat and lower is usually considered "casual" probably means that they won't really care about the changes as much as the Diamond and Masters players.

IMO, it would be great to add an iCCup-style rating to the upper tiers since currently it's quite ambiguous what true skill a player is based on their points and ranking in a league. A grueling iCCup system would be a solid, though stark, reminder of a player's true skill inside the upper league.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
vnlegend
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1389 Posts
February 13 2011 03:44 GMT
#14
Nice graphics on the icons, they look very realistic and sharp. I also liked the previous version that they had with more decor.

[image loading]
Marines > everything
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-13 04:09:42
February 13 2011 04:07 GMT
#15
On February 13 2011 11:29 eviltomahawk wrote:
Although I do agree about this approach, I think there should be a greater number of divisions in the upper tiers, especially considering that it is where the majority of D level and upwards of people from iCCup usually reside. The approach would be nice for the lower leagues, though the opinion that Plat and lower is usually considered "casual" probably means that they won't really care about the changes as much as the Diamond and Masters players.

IMO, it would be great to add an iCCup-style rating to the upper tiers since currently it's quite ambiguous what true skill a player is based on their points and ranking in a league. A grueling iCCup system would be a solid, though stark, reminder of a player's true skill inside the upper league.

I tend to agree. I really do feel that 14 levels is a good number for a more accurate representation of skill, and both ELO and iCCup do this. My initial problem was that I couldn't figure out a concise visual way to represent the levels, the 3rd tier and 1st tier would be no problem in making 1 addition, but I had a lot of trouble with tier 2. Below is what I played around with originally, but never really felt that it worked quite well enough.

E, D-, D, D+
[image loading]

C-, C, C+
[image loading]

B-, B, B+
[image loading]

A-, A, A+, Olympic
[image loading]
Administrator
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 44m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
ggaemo 350
Backho 123
Snow 94
Bale 43
Dewaltoss 12
Icarus 8
Stormgate
WinterStarcraft477
Tasteless108
Dota 2
monkeys_forever837
League of Legends
JimRising 697
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K506
PGG 68
Other Games
summit1g21922
ViBE167
NeuroSwarm80
SortOf33
xp31
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH358
• davetesta47
• practicex 40
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1938
• Rush1542
• Stunt356
• HappyZerGling82
Other Games
• Scarra1081
Upcoming Events
LiuLi Cup
5h 44m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
9h 44m
RSL Revival
20h 44m
RSL Revival
1d 4h
SC Evo League
1d 6h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 9h
CSO Cup
1d 10h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
[ Show More ]
RotterdaM Event
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.