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*DreamHack Spoilers* I am so mad - Page 7

Blogs > boesthius
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CTStalker
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Canada9720 Posts
April 12 2011 23:57 GMT
#121
yeah, it makes no sense, and it's narcissistic. they expect the players to somehow listen to their whining -- "oh, what's that? the game isn't legitimate if it ends now? oh, shit. okay, well i'll just lose some units on purpose and then expo, and the game will become epic"

like chill said, you can't force or expect "epic" games. all you can expect is for the top players to play their best -- because when they don't play their best, they'll lose. the only games that are "epic" are those back-and-forth, hard-fought matches -- they don't even have to be long -- where both player is absolutely doing everything he can to win.
By the way, my name is Funk. I am not of your world
smashedpotato
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia9 Posts
April 13 2011 00:06 GMT
#122
On April 13 2011 06:49 hugman wrote:
So I said this like twice already, but I think the tennis analogy of using an underhand serve on a match point is the perfect example. Is that respected in tennis? No.

MC can win like that but I'm not going to respect him for showing such a boring deciding game.


I beg to differ..sure cheese is a cheese, but MC's absurdity in attempting that at the highest level of the game is mind boggling and decidedly calculative. He wasn't farming for quick results on ladder, he chose to use that particular strat on that particular map in that particular situation (the decider). People are saying it was a coin toss, sure it was extremely risky move but I think it was more of a well-thought out punt at what would best give him the win in the situation.

gg no re
wuhwuhwuhwuh
Backpack
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1776 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-13 00:11:07
April 13 2011 00:08 GMT
#123
I think people have just been spoiled by BW and they havn't transitioned well. This whole idea that a game isn't entertaining unless each player has 5+ bases doesn't apply to SC2. I thought people would be used to lower base count and faster games by now but apparently a year wasn't enough.

I also think that the gossip (that's what it is) that infests many threads on TL and other places just breeds negative attitudes. All it takes is one troll post in a LR thread and then 50 pages of rage come afterward.

I've just about lost all faith in internet forums : /


Tasteless once said "Teamliquid is like the Bank of America, it's too big to fail and I stopped using my account there 5 years ago."

I can see why.


edit: i got a little off-topic, but the quantity of angry posters wanting to share their anger with other angry posters just degrades most topics here into pointless arguments
"You people need to just generally care a lot less about everything." -Zatic
CrazyF1r3f0x
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2120 Posts
April 13 2011 00:10 GMT
#124
I think people are just sad that White-ra lost
Though calling MC a faggot is out of line; nice venting blog though ~_^
"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery."
loveeholicce
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Korea (South)785 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-13 00:24:40
April 13 2011 00:21 GMT
#125
On April 13 2011 06:37 Roffles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 06:33 Pandain wrote:

I think that's why so many people are upset.
Yes pros play for the money, and that's why many of them will cheese in order to do so. But that's why we feel so mad at them. Because what if they didn't really deserve it?

Yes MC was very smart and through the "meta game" managed to successfully reverse 3-0 White Ra. But what if he had scouted earlier?
Auto lose.

What if White Ra had scouted his base?
Auto lose.

What if White ra had changed his build
Perhaps lose.


The point is that even though its white ra's fault for not scouting, and therefore MC "deserved" the win, he really didn't deserve it by means of that game. I'm not saying he didn't deserve it in total, since I personally believe MC is a better play than white ra.

When a player wins a game, and not just any game, but THE GAME that decides who gets 15000 and who goes home brokes they 2 gate and risk everything on luck, the luck that they are not scouted, it is natural that people will be mad. Especially with all the drama surrounding Whitera's initial 2-0 lead, and the MC-Whitera rivalry beforehand.

So yes I see your point, but also remember that there are people who "deserve" the win, and people who deserve it. And while I feel MC is ahead of White Ra and had white ra been any other race he would have dominated him, you must keep in mind the other side as well.

No one deserves to win a game. If you don't win, you don't deserve to win. Doesn't matter how you lose, how great you may be, or whatever. If you lose, you lost. Doesn't matter if you're Flash playing Hyuk and Hyuk does some gay 6 pool shit while you 14 CC'd. You didn't deserve to win that game.


Nonsense i deserve to win every ZvP I play

Edit: I put my opinion on this in the DH thread and im lazy so il just copy paste that here

There's a difference between being disappointed in the games and being disappointed in the player. I was disappointed by the last game, and in general I dislike watching MC because I dislike the abusive, all in style he employs in the vast majority of his games. That being said, I have nothing against MC himself. He tries to win and he picks strategies that play to his strengths (his micro) and cloud his *relative* weaknesses (his management). There's nothing wrong with that so theres really no reason to blame MC or hate on him but it still doesn't mean I don't find his games boring, stupid, and anti climatic,
상처받은 그대에 가슴에 사랑을 심어줄께요♥
PanN
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2828 Posts
April 13 2011 00:23 GMT
#126
IMO anyone mad that he cheesed isn't a real starcraft player.

Sorry chumps, but it's apart of the game and if it worked, it was intelligent.
We have multiple brackets generated in advance. Relax . (Kennigit) I just simply do not understand how it can be the time to play can be 22nd at 9:30 pm PST / midnight the 23rd at the same time. (GGzerg)
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
April 13 2011 00:33 GMT
#127
On April 13 2011 09:08 Backpack wrote:
I think people have just been spoiled by BW and they havn't transitioned well. This whole idea that a game isn't entertaining unless each player has 5+ bases doesn't apply to SC2. I thought people would be used to lower base count and faster games by now but apparently a year wasn't enough.


No way. Cheesing in up to 2(3 if you're REALLY crazy) games in a bo5 is actually a staple of BW. The complaining from people who miss BW is from people who hate it when EVERY game is a 1 base all-in, which is not nearly as true of SC2 anymore. All this complaining is about the cheese in one game of a series.

Calm 4pooled Fantasy twice in the OSL semifinals
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
PanN
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2828 Posts
April 13 2011 00:38 GMT
#128
On April 13 2011 09:33 Turgid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 09:08 Backpack wrote:
I think people have just been spoiled by BW and they havn't transitioned well. This whole idea that a game isn't entertaining unless each player has 5+ bases doesn't apply to SC2. I thought people would be used to lower base count and faster games by now but apparently a year wasn't enough.


No way. Cheesing in up to 2(3 if you're REALLY crazy) games in a bo5 is actually a staple of BW. The complaining from people who miss BW is from people who hate it when EVERY game is a 1 base all-in, which is not nearly as true of SC2 anymore. All this complaining is about the cheese in one game of a series.

Calm 4pooled Fantasy twice in the OSL semifinals


Don't forget boxers bunker rush, I think thats the definition example of what we're currently discussing.
We have multiple brackets generated in advance. Relax . (Kennigit) I just simply do not understand how it can be the time to play can be 22nd at 9:30 pm PST / midnight the 23rd at the same time. (GGzerg)
Liquid`Nazgul
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
22427 Posts
April 13 2011 00:40 GMT
#129
On April 13 2011 08:17 RoieTRS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 08:14 zeru wrote:
On April 13 2011 08:03 Apolo wrote:
boesthius actually it's not as simple as"they play to win". As i've said before, the money for the prizes come from viewers. The players are actually entertainers, in a way like comedians, singers, etc, and thats why all of these have "fans". The reason why TLO seems to always be the fan favourite is because he deviates from boring play. Players like him keep more viewers coming by making them interested, expecting what crazy new stuff will TLO do this time, instead, "oh look standard play. I'll come back in 5mins to see who wins," Ofc i'm exageratting, but this is to say, yes they play to win, but also to entertain otherwise, no viewers, no money, and with no money at stake, they lose their job.

Still, part of this entertaining job, a big part, is the game itself. If boring standard play is more effective, ofc it will be seen more often. That's why it's also on blizzards hand to make it as appealing as possible to players to be able to have exciting games, to attract viewers --> money --> players.

They players are not entertainers. sorry. not sure where you got that from.


Yes they are.

They entertain, but are not entertainers. Do you see the difference? They are athletes, and athletes entertain, but they are not entertainers in the sense that they need to go out of their way to amuse you. They amuse you with their skills and desire to win.
Administrator
tdt
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3179 Posts
April 13 2011 00:42 GMT
#130
On April 13 2011 09:08 Backpack wrote:
I think people have just been spoiled by BW and they havn't transitioned well. This whole idea that a game isn't entertaining unless each player has 5+ bases doesn't apply to SC2. I thought people would be used to lower base count and faster games by now but apparently a year wasn't enough.

I also think that the gossip (that's what it is) that infests many threads on TL and other places just breeds negative attitudes. All it takes is one troll post in a LR thread and then 50 pages of rage come afterward.

I've just about lost all faith in internet forums : /


Tasteless once said "Teamliquid is like the Bank of America, it's too big to fail and I stopped using my account there 5 years ago."

I can see why.


edit: i got a little off-topic, but the quantity of angry posters wanting to share their anger with other angry posters just degrades most topics here into pointless arguments



I think they never were in the BW scene. Posts hover below 300 for people we are talking about.
MC for president
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
April 13 2011 00:47 GMT
#131
"Is he a sick or what?" - Naniwa while watching the last game.

Because thats what it was - a clutch as hell play, where he says fuck it, I could lose doing this but I think I will win more times than I lose, and more times than playing normally as well.

To do that in the final game of a tournament where second place doesnt get shit, is clutch. If you cant respect that type of play, I dont think you get what makes a great player.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
April 13 2011 00:56 GMT
#132
There is exactly as much hiveminding going on in this thread as there are in live report threads.
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
SlapMySalami
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1060 Posts
April 13 2011 01:13 GMT
#133
On April 13 2011 09:56 RoieTRS wrote:
There is exactly as much hiveminding going on in this thread as there are in live report threads.



thats the only explanation
marineking will u huk my bigtt1 ilu
svi
Profile Joined October 2010
405 Posts
April 13 2011 01:13 GMT
#134
mc is a genius. he realized that white-ra plays like a robot, with the same old predictable early build after playing against him multiple times (tsl+this).

he knew that he had a high probability of winning, since white-bot never changes his early build. there was no luck involved in exploiting a player that plays like a computer.
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
April 13 2011 01:17 GMT
#135
Give him a break .. He just wants to be the 'Emperor' on SC2 :D
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
April 13 2011 01:20 GMT
#136
Haha, I was linked to this topic and before I looked at the topic creator and at the content of the first post, I thought it was some random guy whining about the results.

Instead, what I got was a great, intelligent post that I completely agree with. The sheer amount of MC bashing was just painfully annoying to read through. Fortunately, we also had plenty of actually intelligent posters refuting the whiners/haters, thus cementing my good faith in the general TL community.
Probulous
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3894 Posts
April 13 2011 01:29 GMT
#137
Where is the six star option for a blog?

Jinro said it best

On April 13 2011 09:47 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
To do that in the final game of a tournament where second place doesnt get shit, is clutch. If you cant respect that type of play, I dont think you get what makes a great player.

"Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut
HolyArrow
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7116 Posts
April 13 2011 01:30 GMT
#138
On April 13 2011 06:37 RoieTRS wrote:
boesthius I agree.
Yet they have valid points. E-sports is an entertainment industry. And that stuff isn't entertaining.

Sometimes I think, that even though I wouldn't have found this community if not for GSL classic so1, this entire thing would go back to being a cool kid's club.
I don't like how MC is an image or a celebrity of sorts. He is just a player who is known for some things.
I don't like how sponsors/KeSPA treated progamers in bw.
I don't like how Esports is becoming an industry.
I am probably the only one with this perspective.

Effective wins by MC, but yeah, to restate, the complaints are legitimate because they are not entertaining games. Spectators feel cheated for wasting their time.
But as a player, I can respect MC's decisions. There is a huge difference between spectators/audience and players. And it is getting too large. Hence "I don't like how esports is becoming an industry."


I don't think it's a fact that cheese isn't entertaining, but you seem to be treating it like such. Different people find different things entertaining. Personally, when cheese occurs, my heartrate goes up and I go on the edge of my seat watching it all unfold. People need to stop speaking for everyone when they talk about what is and what isn't entertaining. I'm pretty sure that people with enough foresight and with good observational abilities will be entertained by realizing the mindgames and calculated strategy behind what MC does, rather than just seeing cheese, taking it only on surface value, and whining about it.
Joementum
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
787 Posts
April 13 2011 01:31 GMT
#139
On April 13 2011 10:17 aimaimaim wrote:
Give him a break .. He just wants to be the 'Emperor' on SC2 :D


No. No. And. No.

There can only be one Emperor and no more. He may be a Prime Minister if he wishes, but no Emperor.
A marine walks into a bar and asks, "Wheres the counter?"
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
April 13 2011 01:49 GMT
#140
On April 13 2011 10:31 Joementum wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2011 10:17 aimaimaim wrote:
Give him a break .. He just wants to be the 'Emperor' on SC2 :D


No. No. And. No.

There can only be one Emperor and no more. He may be a Prime Minister if he wishes, but no Emperor.

He's already the President Protoss. I don't think he will run for reelection to be Prime Minister, unless he is a Putin.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
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