Messed up sleep schedule - Page 2

micronesia

United States24770 Posts

July 24 2009 07:28 GMT

#21

On July 24 2009 16:24 sk` wrote:
Micro:
If you're actually read on the topic why not source data or references instead of just saying "zomfg, be scuurred!"?

Either way, he can do what he wants, I'm only going to speak from experience as a person who's been traveling heavy for roughly 13 years. I don't know what's to fear from taking someone one's body makes naturally - especially in moderation.

I lent the book to someone so I can't quote it but the author specifically said the idea that it's okay to take it because your body produces it naturally is a misconception. However, recent research might have concluded that his worries were for nothing; I'm not sure.

Regardless, I try to promote drug-free approaches to sleep problems as much as possible. There are cases where that may not work such as your situation, which I acknowledge.

sk`

Japan442 Posts

July 24 2009 07:44 GMT

#22

So his "worries" weren't actually based in research, but rather the realm of speculation and opinion. Meaning, as a researcher, the concept that taking the hormone your brain releases to regulate you would make his book's work largely pointless. Got it.

Everyone knows you shouldn't go directly to a drug-based solution; though, in this case it is more in the realm of a hormone-based solution. Either way, I'm not telling him to make it a nightly event, but if he needs to snap out of a slump, this is a quick one-night fix. However, if it continues for a long period of time, he has a much larger problem that likely needs the attention of a doctor.

micronesia

United States24770 Posts

July 24 2009 07:48 GMT

#23

On July 24 2009 16:44 sk` wrote:
So his "worries" weren't actually based in research, but rather the realm of speculation and opinion. Meaning, as a researcher, the concept that taking the hormone your brain releases to regulate you would make his book's work largely pointless. Got it.

No that's not accurate. His book is based on years of research. Although Melatonin research wasn't his specific area he was up on what was true at the time. I wish I had the book so I could check exactly what he said, but if I recall correctly he said that there was almost no research which indicated that melatonin had the positive effects that people thought it did.

On July 24 2009 16:44 sk` wrote:
Everyone knows you shouldn't go directly to a drug-based solution; though, in this case it is more in the realm of a hormone-based solution. Either way, I'm not telling him to make it a nightly event, but if he needs to snap out of a slump, this is a quick one-night fix. However, if it continues for a long period of time, he has a much larger problem that likely needs the attention of a doctor.

Unfortunately not everyone knows that lol... many people jump to sleep aids really quickly...

I don't agree with your mentality completely though (with regard to the second half of that paragraph). Even snapping out of a slump (looking for a quick fix) shouldn't be attempted initially by using drugs or hormones if at all avoidable. Every time you use an external solution to a sleeping problem, you build a mental belief that you need that solution next time you get into the same predicament, and dis-empower yourself. If I needed to use a drug/substance every time I messed up my sleep schedule in college it would have gotten ridiculous fast. I learned to deal with it. Granted, the OP's problems are different than mine were.

sk`

Japan442 Posts

July 24 2009 08:03 GMT

#24

Micro:
The important point here is that labeling melatonin as a potential placebo is false as your brain is producing it when it feels it is time to sleep. Believe me, when it hits you, you will be sleepy (at night). The nice thing about it too is that since your brain reduces it in the sun you can usually take it during day light and not feel sleepy (why you would is beyond me, but for reference I've found when trying to correct sleep from large jetlag taking it during day light had no effect aside from wondering why it wasn't working).

There are times in which one cannot rely on natural methods as they tend to be slow. Ex. jetlag, or someone who's working like the OP.

Now, the other issue is that you state dependence (mental) on a substance is the primary reason to avoid. However, humans respond differently here. Some people do get easily addicted (which, your statement is about addiction) and thus will only see the substance as their road to their goal. Other people don't. I can't know for each person so I can't say. The issue here though is routines can be addictive in the same manner; which is largely what your guide suggests. Sure, you're only recommending things that are healthy, I won't fault you there; merely, anything can be addictive in this way. For example, if someone follows your guide and does exercise in a certain time to sleep they may fall into a belief that without that they won't sleep. So, should they miss the routine, they are awake. This is the same as substance addition if we use your example.

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