So I've had the same car since I got my license about 3 years ago. It is a Red Ford Windstar 2001 LX. I got it when it had like 185,000 miles, and now it's going on at 220,000. The transmission's pretty jerky, and I've been saving up for another used car.
I decided I will have enough money for a 25% ($5000) deposit and I will take out a loan for the remaining amount on a used car that's approximate $20,000 to $25,000, *if* I secure a full-time job for next year (I will find out later this week)
So I've basically been in love with this car for the last year:
It's a Dodge Charger SRT-8, boasting 425 brake horsepower from a normally aspirated 6.1 L V8 and all-American muscle car styling.
But recently, I'm falling in love with this car:
This one's the 2006 Mercedes Benz E55 AMG, with 470+ brake horsepower from a supercharged 5.5 L V8, with European styling.
But then again, I thought a car like this might be more useful for hauling stuff (and people) around:
The all American Chevrolet Suburban, lots of passenger space, and it looks sharp too. 5.3 L V8 with mid 300's horsepower.
And these two are also fine too around the same price range:
2006 Jeep Cherokee SRT-8, same engine as the Charger SRT-8 above.
Chrysler 300 SRT-8, same engine as above.
I am also probably going to put emergency red and white flashers and a siren on for kicks so I can help out on local fire/EMS calls (I'm a paramedic)
What car do you think looks the sharpest, fun to drive, and most reliable? Opinion from people who own any of these cars greatly appreciated!
Here's a poll:
Poll: Which car appeals to you the most? (Vote): Dodge Charger SRT-8 (Vote): Mercedes Benz E55 AMG (Vote): Chevrolet Suburban (Vote): Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT-8 (Vote): Chrysler 300 SRT-8 (Vote): Just buy a damn prius
Also, know anywhere other than Autotrader.com or Motors.ebay.com or Craigslist.com where I can find sale by owner used cars?
One side of me tells me that I should just save up and buy a used car I can fully pay for in cash, so I don't have to take out a loan.
What could you recommend that would be cheaper than these as used cars, and also decently stylish? I'm going to ride my minivan until it busts though, as cheap as I am :-P
Why would you put so much money (you don't even have btw) into a car who loses a lot of worth every year? Either lease it, or buy a car you can pay yourself. If however, you must have one of these, please pick the Mercedes, it's the only real quality car of all the five.
EDIT: Also, get it in black and exchange the rims, keke?
On June 10 2009 18:19 T.O.P. wrote: Why do people care so much about horsepower? None of these cars appeal to me, if I have to choose, it'll be the benz.
so you can go from0 to ridiculous in the time it takes to blink....DUHHH
Why don't you buy a car that you can actually afford and doesn't require obscene amounts of fuel? Is a fat car necessary for your ego? You'd think a guy who has the wits to be a paramedic would be more reasonable.
On June 10 2009 19:44 Scorch wrote: Why don't you buy a car that you can actually afford and doesn't require obscene amounts of fuel?
+67.
Also I don't recommend the Chrysler 300 at all... the weird shape makes the windows smooshed vertically which impairs visibility.
I don't recommend as a v8 for a daily driver pretty much ever.
I'm also not into luxury cars like mercedes so I can't help you much. I wouldn't get any of those cars... probably a 4 cylinder turbo.
On June 10 2009 19:50 CharlieMurphy wrote: Chrysler might be going out of business, so that is a risk. On the other hand you will be helping america and the economy by buying one.
On June 10 2009 18:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Don't buy American cars. That's all I have to say.
Could not agree more. I'll avoid my rant on why American car companies are horrible on multiple levels and just stick to the pragmatic arguments regarding the car itself: imports are better made, better priced, better everything.
I would check into the new camaro along with your list of cars. Those V8's are going to be guzzling up gas like nobodies business and I'm sure gas prices are not going to be dropping in the future. I hope your taking insurance cost into account as well b/c for almost all the cars you listed I believe the least expensive would be the chevy tahoe/suburban. I never understood why chrysler would have that one bad ass engine and throw it in every line-up of vehicles under them. You might want to narrow down your vehicle choices down to two/three and test drive them and let your taste go from there.
dupontregistry.com is another website for classy vehicles.
Not fond of those choices. Of them the only ones i'd go with are the benz and the charger (my cousin had that same exact car, and also used it for similar reasons as you, he was a volunteer firefighter and put lights in his) The charger was a lot of fun to ride in, never got to drive it though. Also, he lived in a new part of virginia with wide open 5 lane highways with no cars or cops on them Out of that list i'd pick the benz but thats probably going to run you ~50,000 which is a lot more than the charger.
Don't get either. You seem to be undecided between an SUV and a large sedan, so I would say consider a Subaru Forester. They are versatile in any driving conditions, roomy, drive forever without problems, are cheaper to maintain and not flashy. Good price as well, relative to some of the options you are contemplating.
On June 10 2009 19:44 Scorch wrote: Why don't you buy a car that you can actually afford and doesn't require obscene amounts of fuel? Is a fat car necessary for your ego? You'd think a guy who has the wits to be a paramedic would be more reasonable.
My sentiments exactly. I wouldn't buy any of the cars listed myself
On June 10 2009 19:44 Scorch wrote: Why don't you buy a car that you can actually afford and doesn't require obscene amounts of fuel? Is a fat car necessary for your ego? You'd think a guy who has the wits to be a paramedic would be more reasonable.
It's not really a question of whether I can afford the car or not - I know I can *if* I land this job this week. (I already have the 25% downpayment and this will give me a monthly payment of around $400 (4 year loan), which is about 10% of my income in a steady job. I don't have a family to support or anything, so with insurance and taxes and fuel and maintenance and stuff it should cost $800 / month at most (according to Edmund's true cost to own).
I don't really think any of these cars are excessively fat, they cost on the low end of the spectrum :-\. Now a decently fat car would be something like a Mercedes Benz E63 AMG. It ain't for my ego (that's way way huge already and probably couldn't get any bigger), I like acceleration.
I would check into the new camaro along with your list of cars. Those V8's are going to be guzzling up gas like nobodies business and I'm sure gas prices are not going to be dropping in the future. I hope your taking insurance cost into account as well b/c for almost all the cars you listed I believe the least expensive would be the chevy tahoe/suburban. I never understood why chrysler would have that one bad ass engine and throw it in every line-up of vehicles under them. You might want to narrow down your vehicle choices down to two/three and test drive them and let your taste go from there.
dupontregistry.com is another website for classy vehicles.
That's freaking awesome. Yeh, the camaro looks so damn nice too, but I don't want to buy a new car at this point. I would take too much of a hit with depreciation.
Not fond of those choices. Of them the only ones i'd go with are the benz and the charger (my cousin had that same exact car, and also used it for similar reasons as you, he was a volunteer firefighter and put lights in his) The charger was a lot of fun to ride in, never got to drive it though. Also, he lived in a new part of virginia with wide open 5 lane highways with no cars or cops on them Out of that list i'd pick the benz but thats probably going to run you ~50,000 which is a lot more than the charger.
On June 10 2009 18:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Don't buy American cars. That's all I have to say.
YOU DISGUST ME
Since when american cars are a good choice????
Imo go for Japanese, German cars.... Mercedes,Benz,Audi,Toyota,Honda,Mazda >.< its all there baby.
And I agree with some people saying these cars look ridiculously MEGA big. For example I would pick a s5 cabrio instead of all this crap or even a 335i cabrio. or even a M3. these are real cars.
On June 10 2009 18:24 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Don't buy American cars. That's all I have to say.
YOU DISGUST ME
well in the last years there are indeed some american cars that can handle well, but only 3 years ago the only thing a ride from USA could do is going fast in a straight line
These cars have terrible fuel efficiency, not to mention the fact that they're gonna wear down really quickly. Also, THINK OF THE ENVIRONMENT lol I would go with an Acura. They're nice, and pretty reliable too + Show Spoiler +
The main engine is a 5.4 L V8 engine, designated the M113, that carries the "55" designation. This engine comes in two configurations.
* The first configuration is a naturally aspirated V8 with 360 PS (355 hp/265 kW) that is used in compact cars, namely the C55 AMG, CLK55 AMG and SLK55 AMG . * The other configuration is a similar unit but with a highly efficient Lysholm type supercharger manufactured by IHI, is found in the rest of the AMG 55 models which are typically midsized or larger vehicles. The published output according to Mercedes varies from 476 PS (469 hp/350 kW) to 517 PS (510 hp/380 kW) and Template:Auto NM to Template:Auto NM, depending on various methods of power measurements and different ECU programming for national legislations.
Kompressor is not a model, its a engine type...it means supercharger drive. There are two main types of supercharger defined according to the method of compression: positive-displacement and dynamic compressors. The former deliver a fairly constant level of boost regardless of engine speed (RPM), whereas the latter deliver increasing boost with increasing engine speed.
Jeeps are garbage, and I'm not a big fan of that Benz. I voted for the Charger, but I'd really go for the new Camaro. The Subaru was a good suggestion too.
the crossfire is a good car, cheaper too compared for example with nissan 350z, actually there is nothing wrong with the american cars, just if want to drive the thing in Europe fast and with confidence most likely someone else will end up with your organs
As much as I prefer many foreign cars over many American cars, I really wish everyone would stop making car-racist remarks like "Don't buy American." There are many bad choices from Japan/Germany/etc and good choices from the USA, depending on what your car needs are. Just because the average foreign car is a better choice doesn't mean you should unilaterally rule out American cars. Judge each car on its individual merit.
get a camaro ss and burn everyone and when someone makes fun of you for driving and american car you can rev your monster v8 and feel their hearts tremble while still getting 20+ mpg suck on that bitches
On June 11 2009 06:19 micronesia wrote: As much as I prefer many foreign cars over many American cars, I really wish everyone would stop making car-racist remarks like "Don't buy American." There are many bad choices from Japan/Germany/etc and good choices from the USA, depending on what your car needs are. Just because the average foreign car is a better choice doesn't mean you should unilaterally rule out American cars. Judge each car on its individual merit.
Amen
On June 11 2009 08:29 mahnini wrote: get a camaro ss and burn everyone and when someone makes fun of you for driving and american car you can rev your monster v8 and feel their hearts tremble while still getting 20+ mpg suck on that bitches
Not fond of those choices. Of them the only ones i'd go with are the benz and the charger (my cousin had that same exact car, and also used it for similar reasons as you, he was a volunteer firefighter and put lights in his) The charger was a lot of fun to ride in, never got to drive it though. Also, he lived in a new part of virginia with wide open 5 lane highways with no cars or cops on them Out of that list i'd pick the benz but thats probably going to run you ~50,000 which is a lot more than the charger.
Kompressor sounds like a bad guy from an episode of teenage mutant ninja turtles
itsyounglee the 300 is the nicest car of that list of choices by far. the problem with a $25k mercedes is that it LOOKS like a $25k mercedes. its like going to a lan party with this home-customized tower and being all smug about it until someone asks you what kinda hardware its got and you shut up because its like a pentium 2 or some shit
the 300 is a classy ride, but a $25k mercedes makes you look cheap & vain at the same time
i mean if you really like the car then w/e thats the only important factor but if you're looking at it and thinking "wow i can get A BENZ for 25k" you are that cheap & vain person without realizing it!!!!!!!!!
in my infinite wisdom about cars and their owners i can tell you this
On June 11 2009 11:04 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Kompressor sounds like a bad guy from an episode of teenage mutant ninja turtles
itsyounglee the 300 is the nicest car of that list of choices by far. the problem with a $25k mercedes is that it LOOKS like a $25k mercedes. its like going to a lan party with this home-customized tower and being all smug about it until someone asks you what kinda hardware its got and you shut up because its like a pentium 2 or some shit
the 300 is a classy ride, but a $25k mercedes makes you look cheap & vain at the same time
Aye, I can see your point about the Benz. It makes sense to wait until you can afford a $100,000 to buy a real Benz. I'm leaning heavily towards the 300 at this point too...
The 300 is definitely classy. Although it's not the most powerful, it seems to be a good strong American car. Although the opinions on the cars are pretty much bimodal... it's either "Wow, that is a beautiful work of art" or "WTF a flying brick!"
yeah, its a really unique shape. i think it looks damn good
i mean take it for a test drive, make sure you can drive comfortably with the visibility the way it is. it's certainly not dangerous in any way but you're not exactly sitting in a clear glass bubble either.
On June 11 2009 06:19 micronesia wrote: As much as I prefer many foreign cars over many American cars, I really wish everyone would stop making car-racist remarks like "Don't buy American." There are many bad choices from Japan/Germany/etc and good choices from the USA, depending on what your car needs are. Just because the average foreign car is a better choice doesn't mean you should unilaterally rule out American cars. Judge each car on its individual merit.
Individual merit is every bit as important as branding. American vehicles are viewed, and I emphatically stress viewed, as inferior to Japanese and German cars (I would not go as far as to say Korean too, but that is another discussion). Some people base their preferences on branding and that is every bit as valid as say, car colour. I personally hold branding close to heart when I choose vehicles which is why I will never consider purchase American-made cars, as I drive a Mazda 3. To each his own I guess.
On June 11 2009 06:19 micronesia wrote: As much as I prefer many foreign cars over many American cars, I really wish everyone would stop making car-racist remarks like "Don't buy American." There are many bad choices from Japan/Germany/etc and good choices from the USA, depending on what your car needs are. Just because the average foreign car is a better choice doesn't mean you should unilaterally rule out American cars. Judge each car on its individual merit.
Individual merit is every bit as important as branding. American vehicles are viewed, and I emphatically stress viewed, as inferior to Japanese and German cars (I would not go as far as to say Korean too, but that is another discussion). Some people base their preferences on branding and that is every bit as valid as say, car colour. I personally hold branding close to heart when I choose vehicles which is why I will never consider purchase American-made cars, as I drive a Mazda 3. To each his own I guess.
Those are my two cents..
AHAHAHHAAHHAHA a good majority of your car will have the FoMoCo stamp on it. enjoy your japanese euro-focus.
On June 11 2009 11:04 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: Kompressor sounds like a bad guy from an episode of teenage mutant ninja turtles
itsyounglee the 300 is the nicest car of that list of choices by far. the problem with a $25k mercedes is that it LOOKS like a $25k mercedes. its like going to a lan party with this home-customized tower and being all smug about it until someone asks you what kinda hardware its got and you shut up because its like a pentium 2 or some shit
the 300 is a classy ride, but a $25k mercedes makes you look cheap & vain at the same time
Aye, I can see your point about the Benz. It makes sense to wait until you can afford a $100,000 to buy a real Benz. I'm leaning heavily towards the 300 at this point too...
The 300 is definitely classy. Although it's not the most powerful, it seems to be a good strong American car. Although the opinions on the cars are pretty much bimodal... it's either "Wow, that is a beautiful work of art" or "WTF a flying brick!"
gawd the 300 is a fucking ugly piece of shit on wheels. not to mention its made by chrysler.
meh i'd get an audi personally. maybe an infinity. But more importantly, buy american
wow... you'd think one day American carmakers would get it... if you'd just make cars that are remotely attractive, you might actually sell some...
The Charger and the 300 are absolutely disgusting...
The Mercedes obv trumps all here. But if you want a better sport/luxury bargain you should go for a low/mid level BMW. For pure sports cars I'd look at VW, Audi or Infiniti. Anything below that is probably not really worth the "sports car" label, and anything above is probably too expensive. For SUV imo the best bang for the buck right now is the Audi Q5. But if you like the bigger, more rugged type SUV you should take a look at the Mercedes GLK. It's surprisingly cheap.
On June 11 2009 18:40 Hydrolisko wrote: wow... you'd think one day American carmakers would get it... if you'd just make cars that are remotely attractive, you might actually sell some...
The Charger and the 300 are absolutely disgusting...
The Mercedes obv trumps all here. But if you want a better sport/luxury bargain you should go for a low/mid level BMW. For pure sports cars I'd look at VW, Audi or Infiniti. Anything below that is probably not really worth the "sports car" label, and anything above is probably too expensive. For SUV imo the best bang for the buck right now is the Audi Q5. But if you like the bigger, more rugged type SUV you should take a look at the Mercedes GLK. It's surprisingly cheap.
On June 11 2009 18:40 Hydrolisko wrote: wow... you'd think one day American carmakers would get it... if you'd just make cars that are remotely attractive, you might actually sell some...
The Charger and the 300 are absolutely disgusting...
The Mercedes obv trumps all here. But if you want a better sport/luxury bargain you should go for a low/mid level BMW. For pure sports cars I'd look at VW, Audi or Infiniti. Anything below that is probably not really worth the "sports car" label, and anything above is probably too expensive. For SUV imo the best bang for the buck right now is the Audi Q5. But if you like the bigger, more rugged type SUV you should take a look at the Mercedes GLK. It's surprisingly cheap.
Yea I was going to recommend a Cadillac CTS-V. Things are just to fuckin nice. I've always considered a 300 a cheap alternative to owning an actual Rolls Royce. The dodge charger is just a watered down version of the 300. + Show Spoiler +
You shouldn't get any of those. You have $5k saved up with no definite job and there's absolutely no guarentee that you'll have one any time soon. You're totally handcuffing your expenses if you finance/lease—don't plan on moving out or going on vacation. Just buy a cheaper, used car with less miles on it.
I'd stay the fuck away from anything American these days simple because you don't know if they're gonna go under and what will happen with the warranty. Not to mention that most American cars suck ass (but the 300 is pretty clean. American trucks are a different story).
German cars are typically expensive as shit to repair (but, imo, are the nicest cars around). Anything with a turbo is going to be expesnive to repair.
I'd get a newer Honda or Nissan or something like.
If you want your car to break down sooner and pay twice as much for fuel, go with an American car. I don't care what you do with your money since its not mine.
Just to give you a warning, gas prices are just going to keep increasing from now. You're totally fucking yourself up.
These cars are good for picking up skanks but that's about it. IMO dodge the baller fantasy and remember you're not on MTV cribs. Be reasonable and ask yourself if you can't spend the money one of these things will cost better elsewhere?
On June 12 2009 05:14 Chef wrote: These cars are good for picking up skanks but that's about it. IMO dodge the baller fantasy and remember you're not on MTV cribs. Be reasonable and ask yourself if you can't spend the money one of these things will cost better elsewhere?
LOL. Surely at least one of these cars possesses SOME other redeeming characteristic other than "picks up skanks". I have no baller fantasy. In fact, I don't think any of these cars approach the "baller" category at all (They're much too cheap). "Baller" to me would be like a BMW 750i/M6 or something like the Mercedes Benz E63 AMG (At least in the $80,000+ range).
In actuality I'm pretty much the biggest nerd you will ever know, and according to some (ex. my girlfriend) the biggest work-a-holic ever. I've worked a full time schedule since the second semester of college while a full-time student. I don't think these cars are any expensive at all, and my co-workers have cars that cost about the same as these except I don't have the typical living expenses they do (since my college tuition is paid for through a scholarship) and I live at my parents' during the summer. I'm just your regular aspiring Asian kid.
Not to mention, if I score the full time job I'm talking about, I'd actually have TWO paid full time jobs. (One doing clinical research at my college just for the summer and another permanently working as a paramedic 24 hours each on Saturday and Monday). I prioritize my spending of money as such: Food -> Housing -> Health Insurance -> Car -> Insurance -> Luxuries/Travel/Vacation.
Being cheap as I am I'm going to drive my current 8 year old minivan until the transmission blows up, but it's always good to look ahead right? Obviously I've thought about the true-cost-to-own for these vehicles considering my credit with a decent 3.5 year loan, what I am willing to put down as a deposit, expected repair/maintenance costs, and fuel costs. Insurance is covered by my parents. Depreciation really doesn't matter for me because I plan to pay off the loan and ride whatever ride I have next until it clunks over.
Seems most people like the Benz. This community is pretty international, I guess German cars are pretty popular worldwide? What other cars are there that can be bought 'used' at this price range that are also pretty sporty? 4 doors is a must.
When you bought your car, did you buy with cash, or did you take a loan? Most people I've met disagree with buying a car that costs >$10,000 with cash - they say a loan is a better option (why?)
On June 12 2009 05:35 ItsYoungLee wrote: What other cars are there that can be bought 'used' at this price range that are also pretty sporty? 4 doors is a must.
For 18k-20k:
Acura MDX ’06; RL ’05; TSX '07 BMW 3 Series coupe and convertible ’05; M3 '03 Buick Lucerne (V8) '08 Chevrolet Corvette '02 Ford Edge '08 Honda Civic Hybrid ’07; CR-V ’07; Odyssey ’06; Pilot ’07; S2000 '06 Infiniti FX35 ’05; G35 coupe ’05; G35 sedan '06 Lexus ES ’06; GX470 ’04; RX ’05; SC '02 Lincoln Town Car '07 Mercury Mariner Hybrid ’06; Mariner (V6, FWD) '08 Nissan 350Z ’06; Maxima '07 Porsche Boxster '03 Subaru Baja ’06; Legacy (4-cyl.) ’08; Outback ’07; Outback (4-cyl.) '08 Toyota 4Runner ’06; Avalon ’07; FJ Cruiser ’07; Prius ’07; RAV4 ’08; Sienna '08 Volvo S60 (FWD) ’07; XC70 '06
Not going to bother removing those that aren't 4 door... all of the above vehicles have been found to be pretty reliable for a used car.
When you bought your car, did you buy with cash, or did you take a loan? Most people I've met disagree with buying a car that costs >$10,000 with cash - they say a loan is a better option (why?)
I put down as much as I comfortably could and financed the rest... I don't see why you would avoid putting more down if you could afford it... although getting 0% financing makes it kinda 50/50.
if what micronesia said is true then my choice would be the BMW M3 '03 or the Nissan 350Z. Porsche boxster is not a family car and its 2 seated. Also dunno if u could get a very nice Honda Civic type - R (not the new one , the previous version, if u look for it on youtube and in top gear the guy reviewing it says the old one is much better than the new one in handling and they only added 1hp in the newer version and the new one is a bit slower).
Btw I myself want to buy a new car. VW scirocco 1.4 160hp with a 500euro upgrading it to 220hp. I love that car ~.~
Oh, oh, look at this. A spare key for a Volkswagen Scirocco. Th-They don't even make this anymore. They don't even make this car anymore! Whose key could this possibly be?
please god don't get a prius. Those are one of the ugliest cars i've seen on the rode today. According to top gear, the global effects of producing the batteries required in the prius are more detrimental then the fuel it saves.
if you plan on buying a used car around 20-25k, i'd suggest going for a 335i. Speed and luxury.
On June 12 2009 07:08 micronesia wrote: Oh, oh, look at this. A spare key for a Volkswagen Scirocco. Th-They don't even make this anymore. They don't even make this car anymore! Whose key could this possibly be?
On June 12 2009 05:35 ItsYoungLee wrote: What other cars are there that can be bought 'used' at this price range that are also pretty sporty? 4 doors is a must.
For 18k-20k:
Acura MDX ’06; RL ’05; TSX '07 BMW 3 Series coupe and convertible ’05; M3 '03 Buick Lucerne (V8) '08 Chevrolet Corvette '02 Ford Edge '08 Honda Civic Hybrid ’07; CR-V ’07; Odyssey ’06; Pilot ’07; S2000 '06 Infiniti FX35 ’05; G35 coupe ’05; G35 sedan '06 Lexus ES ’06; GX470 ’04; RX ’05; SC '02 Lincoln Town Car '07 Mercury Mariner Hybrid ’06; Mariner (V6, FWD) '08 Nissan 350Z ’06; Maxima '07 Porsche Boxster '03 Subaru Baja ’06; Legacy (4-cyl.) ’08; Outback ’07; Outback (4-cyl.) '08 Toyota 4Runner ’06; Avalon ’07; FJ Cruiser ’07; Prius ’07; RAV4 ’08; Sienna '08 Volvo S60 (FWD) ’07; XC70 '06
Not going to bother removing those that aren't 4 door... all of the above vehicles have been found to be pretty reliable for a used car.
When you bought your car, did you buy with cash, or did you take a loan? Most people I've met disagree with buying a car that costs >$10,000 with cash - they say a loan is a better option (why?)
I put down as much as I comfortably could and financed the rest... I don't see why you would avoid putting more down if you could afford it... although getting 0% financing makes it kinda 50/50.
you can buy a used hona prelude for 10k. That's what I would do. It's fast and doesn't burn gas like a firebat.
On June 12 2009 07:08 micronesia wrote: Oh, oh, look at this. A spare key for a Volkswagen Scirocco. Th-They don't even make this anymore. They don't even make this car anymore! Whose key could this possibly be?
On June 12 2009 04:59 AzureEye wrote: If you want your car to break down sooner and pay twice as much for fuel, go with an American car. I don't care what you do with your money since its not mine.
Dear AzureEye, welcome to the year 2009. How'd you enjoy your trip to 1985?
On June 12 2009 04:59 AzureEye wrote: If you want your car to break down sooner and pay twice as much for fuel, go with an American car. I don't care what you do with your money since its not mine.
Dear AzureEye, welcome to the year 2009. How'd you enjoy your trip to 1985?
On June 12 2009 10:06 Jibba wrote: That's pretty embarrassing but it IS a cheap and fast pony car.
300s and CTS and the like do just fine and I certainly wouldn't buy a VW if you want reliability.
OP, what about a used Genesis? Everyone's in love with that car these days.
Heh Jibba, even though I am Korean and I think Korean cars are reliable and inexpensive, I don't like how they look. I have to admit I like the creature comforts of my parents' Kia Amanti, but I really don't like how it looks on the outside. I'm also pretty sure a Genesis is way way out of my price range, since they came out like last year.
Where do you get all this reliability data? I wish I had a ConsumerReports account or something, that's where most people get them right?
On June 12 2009 04:59 AzureEye wrote: If you want your car to break down sooner and pay twice as much for fuel, go with an American car. I don't care what you do with your money since its not mine.
Dear AzureEye, welcome to the year 2009. How'd you enjoy your trip to 1985?
albeit this specifically targets the camaro, this doesn't look good in terms of quality for American cars.
First model year on a completely new car... it isn't really fair to point out faults of that car, nor to stereotype all of American cars based on that...
On June 12 2009 10:06 Jibba wrote: That's pretty embarrassing but it IS a cheap and fast pony car.
300s and CTS and the like do just fine and I certainly wouldn't buy a VW if you want reliability.
OP, what about a used Genesis? Everyone's in love with that car these days.
Heh Jibba, even though I am Korean and I think Korean cars are reliable and inexpensive, I don't like how they look. I have to admit I like the creature comforts of my parents' Kia Amanti, but I really don't like how it looks on the outside. I'm also pretty sure a Genesis is way way out of my price range, since they came out like last year.
The 4 door Genesis starts a bit above 30k new... according to kbb:
Value retained by a used Genesis (projected)
...so you can extrapolate that.
Where do you get all this reliability data? I wish I had a ConsumerReports account or something, that's where most people get them right?
I have a CR account yeah, and that's also where I got all those suggestions in the 18-20k range... if you wanted I can give you the lower ranges as well...
On June 12 2009 04:59 AzureEye wrote: If you want your car to break down sooner and pay twice as much for fuel, go with an American car. I don't care what you do with your money since its not mine.
Dear AzureEye, welcome to the year 2009. How'd you enjoy your trip to 1985?
albeit this specifically targets the camaro, this doesn't look good in terms of quality for American cars.
First model year on a completely new car... it isn't really fair to point out faults of that car, nor to stereotype all of American cars based on that...
exactly, the current gens civics had far worse problems than squeaking breaks like a jumpy third third gear that took like a year for them to fix. as well as the terrible drive by wire issues. and wind noise created by the A pillar window.
also lol at the random cracks on the car. the camaro was tested at the ring ffs, one isolated instance isnt enough to start calling it a quality issue. nevermind just read the update selfowned.
On June 12 2009 04:59 AzureEye wrote: If you want your car to break down sooner and pay twice as much for fuel, go with an American car. I don't care what you do with your money since its not mine.
Dear AzureEye, welcome to the year 2009. How'd you enjoy your trip to 1985?
albeit this specifically targets the camaro, this doesn't look good in terms of quality for American cars.
First model year on a completely new car... it isn't really fair to point out faults of that car, nor to stereotype all of American cars based on that...
On June 12 2009 10:06 Jibba wrote: That's pretty embarrassing but it IS a cheap and fast pony car.
300s and CTS and the like do just fine and I certainly wouldn't buy a VW if you want reliability.
OP, what about a used Genesis? Everyone's in love with that car these days.
Heh Jibba, even though I am Korean and I think Korean cars are reliable and inexpensive, I don't like how they look. I have to admit I like the creature comforts of my parents' Kia Amanti, but I really don't like how it looks on the outside. I'm also pretty sure a Genesis is way way out of my price range, since they came out like last year.
The 4 door Genesis starts a bit above 30k new... according to kbb:
Where do you get all this reliability data? I wish I had a ConsumerReports account or something, that's where most people get them right?
I have a CR account yeah, and that's also where I got all those suggestions in the 18-20k range... if you wanted I can give you the lower ranges as well...
I think they started making the Genesis in 2008? Either way, I wouldn't buy a Hyundai from before 2008, but I think a used one would definitely be in your price range and I think it looks pretty nice.
There's CR reliability ratings (which meant a lot more 15+ years ago) and then simply the fact that the level of engineering has increased dramatically in every single car company that sells in the US. I'm not so sure about sports cars, but any current sedan should last over 20 years.. They may have shittier rides and so on, but nothing breaks down like they did in the 80s and early 90s.
On June 12 2009 04:59 AzureEye wrote: If you want your car to break down sooner and pay twice as much for fuel, go with an American car. I don't care what you do with your money since its not mine.
Dear AzureEye, welcome to the year 2009. How'd you enjoy your trip to 1985?
I almost got stuck in 1985 with Biff. Ironically, I used a car to get there. My throat hurts a lot though, I had to sing Earth Angel to a group of oldies
On June 11 2009 18:40 Hydrolisko wrote: wow... you'd think one day American carmakers would get it... if you'd just make cars that are remotely attractive, you might actually sell some...
The Charger and the 300 are absolutely disgusting...
The Mercedes obv trumps all here. But if you want a better sport/luxury bargain you should go for a low/mid level BMW. For pure sports cars I'd look at VW, Audi or Infiniti. Anything below that is probably not really worth the "sports car" label, and anything above is probably too expensive. For SUV imo the best bang for the buck right now is the Audi Q5. But if you like the bigger, more rugged type SUV you should take a look at the Mercedes GLK. It's surprisingly cheap.
HAHAHAHAHHA
I don't really understand this post.
I am American myself lol. American cars are just plain fugly. I said nothing about speed. And to respond to the VW sportscar question, I am referring to the GTI and GLI. I'm talking about affordable sports cars btw not Corvettes, Vipers, that would belong to the too expensive category I referred to. Some of you kids get offended too easily lol, and try reading the entire post first... lol
On June 11 2009 18:40 Hydrolisko wrote: wow... you'd think one day American carmakers would get it... if you'd just make cars that are remotely attractive, you might actually sell some...
The Charger and the 300 are absolutely disgusting...
The Mercedes obv trumps all here. But if you want a better sport/luxury bargain you should go for a low/mid level BMW. For pure sports cars I'd look at VW, Audi or Infiniti. Anything below that is probably not really worth the "sports car" label, and anything above is probably too expensive. For SUV imo the best bang for the buck right now is the Audi Q5. But if you like the bigger, more rugged type SUV you should take a look at the Mercedes GLK. It's surprisingly cheap.
HAHAHAHAHHA
I don't really understand this post.
I am American myself lol. American cars are just plain fugly. I said nothing about speed. And to respond to the VW sportscar question, I am referring to the GTI and GLI. I'm talking about affordable sports cars btw not Corvettes, Vipers, that would belong to the too expensive category I referred to. Some of you kids get offended too easily lol, and try reading the entire post first... lol
You referred to vw for having 'pure' sportscars lol...
If I did confuse the pseudo-enthusiasts out there I apologize. But if you read the entire post it's pretty clear what I was getting at. I was referring to the sports/luxury, sports only ('pure'), luxury only class distinction for car shopping purposes. This is a thread about car shopping knowledge not car knowledge. Posting a list of top speeds, horsepowers, 0-60s etc is utterly useless here. The dude has a budget and I posted based on that. I'd be happy to talk about the Corvettes, the Vipers or even the Bugattis, Koeniseggs, or the Mclarens if you wanna talk dream cars with dream specs, but this is the wrong thread to do that.
And the GTI is an awesome bargain in the affordable sports only class.
And come on now, you can't deny American cars, even the powerful ones, are pretty damn fugly. I, as an American, readily admit this fact in humility.
On June 12 2009 21:18 Hydrolisko wrote: If I did confuse the pseudo-enthusiasts out there I apologize.
condescending
But if you read the entire post it's pretty clear what I was getting at. I was referring to the sports/luxury, sports only ('pure'), luxury only class distinction for car shopping purposes. This is a thread about car shopping knowledge not car knowledge.
dodge
Posting a list of top speeds, horsepowers, 0-60s etc is utterly useless here. The dude has a budget and I posted based on that. I'd be happy to talk about the Corvettes, the Vipers or even the Bugattis, Koeniseggs, or the Mclarens if you wanna talk dream cars with dream specs, but this is the wrong thread to do that.
name drop
And the GTI is an awesome bargain in the affordable sports only class.
And come on now, you can't deny American cars, even the powerful ones, are pretty damn fugly. I, as an American, readily admit this fact in humility.
only content of post which happens to state nothing having to do with original quoted post
On June 11 2009 18:40 Hydrolisko wrote: wow... you'd think one day American carmakers would get it... if you'd just make cars that are remotely attractive, you might actually sell some...
The Charger and the 300 are absolutely disgusting...
The Mercedes obv trumps all here. But if you want a better sport/luxury bargain you should go for a low/mid level BMW. For pure sports cars I'd look at VW, Audi or Infiniti. Anything below that is probably not really worth the "sports car" label, and anything above is probably too expensive. For SUV imo the best bang for the buck right now is the Audi Q5. But if you like the bigger, more rugged type SUV you should take a look at the Mercedes GLK. It's surprisingly cheap.
HAHAHAHAHHA
I don't really understand this post.
I am American myself lol. American cars are just plain fugly. I said nothing about speed. And to respond to the VW sportscar question, I am referring to the GTI and GLI. I'm talking about affordable sports cars btw not Corvettes, Vipers, that would belong to the too expensive category I referred to. Some of you kids get offended too easily lol, and try reading the entire post first... lol
lol. you understand that vettes run like 40k right? which is the price of a well equip mid level audi or infiniti. i dont care about your preferences but considering vw, audi and infinite as affordable pure sports cars is kinda lol
So far the only meaningful thing I've gotten out of Hydrolisko's posts is that he thinks American cars are ugly, and assumes that everyone else agrees with him.
He also must be really old since he thinks everyone else is a kid.
edit: mahnini you haven't been able to get a corvette for 40k for a while XD
One of my fave cars EVER is the SL 55 AMG. So I really really get where the OP is coming from. I would pick that merc over anything else posted in there, even if it's not as cute as the SL. It's still miles ahead of all the others in terms of looks & build quality.
Also, the Z06 is faster around a track, in a straight line and it brakes faster than the new Nissan GTR, that being said, if I were to pick, I'd STILL pick the GTR over the more expensive Z06. It's because 99% of american cars are FUCKING UGLY. Deal with it. Seriously.
The only pretty looking car I've seen past '90 was the Viper SRT. I could go with this, and most of the '69 power models. Those are gorgeous cars. But it seems that all the good american designers died somewhere in between. + Show Spoiler +
On June 16 2009 20:11 CubEdIn wrote: One of my fave cars EVER is the SL 55 AMG. So I really really get where the OP is coming from. I would pick that merc over anything else posted in there, even if it's not as cute as the SL. It's still miles ahead of all the others in terms of looks & build quality.
Also, the Z06 is faster around a track, in a straight line and it brakes faster than the new Nissan GTR, that being said, if I were to pick, I'd STILL pick the GTR over the more expensive Z06. It's because 99% of american cars are FUCKING UGLY. Deal with it. Seriously.
The only pretty looking car I've seen past '90 was the Viper SRT. I could go with this, and most of the '69 power models. Those are gorgeous cars. But it seems that all the good american designers died somewhere in between. + Show Spoiler +
nomnomnom
FIRST OF ALL KID, IT ISN'T THE Z06. IT'S THE ZR1. SECONDLY, DID YOU JUST INSULT THE LOOKS OF AMERICAN CARS AND SAY YOU'D PREFER A GTR? COME ON KID, A GTR, THE MOST BLAND LOOKING CAR EVER. FURTHER, LOOKS ARE SUBJECTIVE, FOR EXAMPLE MOST PEOPLE IN AMERICA WOULD PROBABLY THINK EURO MINIHATCHES LOOK LIKE SHIT AND GUESS WHAT THEY DO. YOUR ENTIRE CONTINENT LACKS TASTE HA HA HA HA. FINALLY, THE THING AMERICAN CARS DO BEST IS GIVE YOU AWESOME PERFORMANCE FOR LOW PRICE BUT THEN EUROS JUST COMPLAIN ABOUT THE LACK OF QUALITY INTERIOR WHILE WANKING TO THEIR ELISES AND PAYING $30K FOR A HOT HATCH. ENJOY.
On June 16 2009 20:11 CubEdIn wrote: One of my fave cars EVER is the SL 55 AMG. So I really really get where the OP is coming from. I would pick that merc over anything else posted in there, even if it's not as cute as the SL. It's still miles ahead of all the others in terms of looks & build quality.
Also, the Z06 is faster around a track, in a straight line and it brakes faster than the new Nissan GTR, that being said, if I were to pick, I'd STILL pick the GTR over the more expensive Z06. It's because 99% of american cars are FUCKING UGLY. Deal with it. Seriously.
The only pretty looking car I've seen past '90 was the Viper SRT. I could go with this, and most of the '69 power models. Those are gorgeous cars. But it seems that all the good american designers died somewhere in between. + Show Spoiler +
nomnomnom
FIRST OF ALL KID, IT ISN'T THE Z06. IT'S THE ZR1. SECONDLY, DID YOU JUST INSULT THE LOOKS OF AMERICAN CARS AND SAY YOU'D PREFER A GTR? COME ON KID, A GTR, THE MOST BLAND LOOKING CAR EVER. FURTHER, LOOKS ARE SUBJECTIVE, FOR EXAMPLE MOST PEOPLE IN AMERICA WOULD PROBABLY THINK EURO MINIHATCHES LOOK LIKE SHIT AND GUESS WHAT THEY DO. YOUR ENTIRE CONTINENT LACKS TASTE HA HA HA HA. FINALLY, THE THING AMERICAN CARS DO BEST IS GIVE YOU AWESOME PERFORMANCE FOR LOW PRICE BUT THEN EUROS JUST COMPLAIN ABOUT THE LACK OF QUALITY INTERIOR WHILE WANKING TO THEIR ELISES AND PAYING $30K FOR A HOT HATCH. ENJOY.
mahnini u suck at cars.
and I agree that the Viper was a really GOOD good looking car, maybe the best americans ever built. That and Ford Mustang aka "Eleanor".
On June 16 2009 20:11 CubEdIn wrote: One of my fave cars EVER is the SL 55 AMG. So I really really get where the OP is coming from. I would pick that merc over anything else posted in there, even if it's not as cute as the SL. It's still miles ahead of all the others in terms of looks & build quality.
Also, the Z06 is faster around a track, in a straight line and it brakes faster than the new Nissan GTR, that being said, if I were to pick, I'd STILL pick the GTR over the more expensive Z06. It's because 99% of american cars are FUCKING UGLY. Deal with it. Seriously.
The only pretty looking car I've seen past '90 was the Viper SRT. I could go with this, and most of the '69 power models. Those are gorgeous cars. But it seems that all the good american designers died somewhere in between. + Show Spoiler +
nomnomnom
FIRST OF ALL KID, IT ISN'T THE Z06. IT'S THE ZR1. SECONDLY, DID YOU JUST INSULT THE LOOKS OF AMERICAN CARS AND SAY YOU'D PREFER A GTR? COME ON KID, A GTR, THE MOST BLAND LOOKING CAR EVER. FURTHER, LOOKS ARE SUBJECTIVE, FOR EXAMPLE MOST PEOPLE IN AMERICA WOULD PROBABLY THINK EURO MINIHATCHES LOOK LIKE SHIT AND GUESS WHAT THEY DO. YOUR ENTIRE CONTINENT LACKS TASTE HA HA HA HA. FINALLY, THE THING AMERICAN CARS DO BEST IS GIVE YOU AWESOME PERFORMANCE FOR LOW PRICE BUT THEN EUROS JUST COMPLAIN ABOUT THE LACK OF QUALITY INTERIOR WHILE WANKING TO THEIR ELISES AND PAYING $30K FOR A HOT HATCH. ENJOY.
mahnini u suck at cars.
I second that, besides the "THE THING AMERICAN CARS DO BEST IS GIVE YOU AWESOME PERFORMANCE FOR LOW PRICE" is a total bullshit. This is exactly the problem - why do you think there are only like 3 Dodge Challenger in total in Germany? The car sucks, its not a good performance for low price, because the guys who made have never seen a normal european road with a lot of twists and corners, in fact those guys dont even know where Europe is. The hole argument is pointless, because the US cars are perfect for the states, they are part of your culture and have wonderful performance on your roads, but here in Europe, the muscle cars draw attention in the way the woman with the beard in the circus does it - they are just outlandish and different but performance-wise they suck on our roads. As I said previously there are indeed some great american cars in the last years - like ZR1, but again nobody will buy it here in europe. The person with the money to afford this car will buy M3/5 or AMG without even asking himself if there is a cheaper american car that could give better thrill.
On June 16 2009 20:11 CubEdIn wrote: One of my fave cars EVER is the SL 55 AMG. So I really really get where the OP is coming from. I would pick that merc over anything else posted in there, even if it's not as cute as the SL. It's still miles ahead of all the others in terms of looks & build quality.
Also, the Z06 is faster around a track, in a straight line and it brakes faster than the new Nissan GTR, that being said, if I were to pick, I'd STILL pick the GTR over the more expensive Z06. It's because 99% of american cars are FUCKING UGLY. Deal with it. Seriously.
The only pretty looking car I've seen past '90 was the Viper SRT. I could go with this, and most of the '69 power models. Those are gorgeous cars. But it seems that all the good american designers died somewhere in between. + Show Spoiler +
nomnomnom
FIRST OF ALL KID, IT ISN'T THE Z06. IT'S THE ZR1. SECONDLY, DID YOU JUST INSULT THE LOOKS OF AMERICAN CARS AND SAY YOU'D PREFER A GTR? COME ON KID, A GTR, THE MOST BLAND LOOKING CAR EVER. FURTHER, LOOKS ARE SUBJECTIVE, FOR EXAMPLE MOST PEOPLE IN AMERICA WOULD PROBABLY THINK EURO MINIHATCHES LOOK LIKE SHIT AND GUESS WHAT THEY DO. YOUR ENTIRE CONTINENT LACKS TASTE HA HA HA HA. FINALLY, THE THING AMERICAN CARS DO BEST IS GIVE YOU AWESOME PERFORMANCE FOR LOW PRICE BUT THEN EUROS JUST COMPLAIN ABOUT THE LACK OF QUALITY INTERIOR WHILE WANKING TO THEIR ELISES AND PAYING $30K FOR A HOT HATCH. ENJOY.
On June 16 2009 20:11 CubEdIn wrote: One of my fave cars EVER is the SL 55 AMG. So I really really get where the OP is coming from. I would pick that merc over anything else posted in there, even if it's not as cute as the SL. It's still miles ahead of all the others in terms of looks & build quality.
Also, the Z06 is faster around a track, in a straight line and it brakes faster than the new Nissan GTR, that being said, if I were to pick, I'd STILL pick the GTR over the more expensive Z06. It's because 99% of american cars are FUCKING UGLY. Deal with it. Seriously.
The only pretty looking car I've seen past '90 was the Viper SRT. I could go with this, and most of the '69 power models. Those are gorgeous cars. But it seems that all the good american designers died somewhere in between. + Show Spoiler +
nomnomnom
FIRST OF ALL KID, IT ISN'T THE Z06. IT'S THE ZR1. SECONDLY, DID YOU JUST INSULT THE LOOKS OF AMERICAN CARS AND SAY YOU'D PREFER A GTR? COME ON KID, A GTR, THE MOST BLAND LOOKING CAR EVER. FURTHER, LOOKS ARE SUBJECTIVE, FOR EXAMPLE MOST PEOPLE IN AMERICA WOULD PROBABLY THINK EURO MINIHATCHES LOOK LIKE SHIT AND GUESS WHAT THEY DO. YOUR ENTIRE CONTINENT LACKS TASTE HA HA HA HA. FINALLY, THE THING AMERICAN CARS DO BEST IS GIVE YOU AWESOME PERFORMANCE FOR LOW PRICE BUT THEN EUROS JUST COMPLAIN ABOUT THE LACK OF QUALITY INTERIOR WHILE WANKING TO THEIR ELISES AND PAYING $30K FOR A HOT HATCH. ENJOY.
mahnini u suck at cars.
I second that, besides the "THE THING AMERICAN CARS DO BEST IS GIVE YOU AWESOME PERFORMANCE FOR LOW PRICE" is a total bullshit. This is exactly the problem - why do you think there are only like 3 Dodge Challenger in total in Germany? The car sucks, its not a good performance for low price, because the guys who made have never seen a normal european road with a lot of twists and corners, in fact those guys dont even know where Europe is. The hole argument is pointless, because the US cars are perfect for the states, they are part of your culture and have wonderful performance on your roads, but here in Europe, the muscle cars draw attention in the way the woman with the beard in the circus does it - they are just outlandish and different but performance-wise they suck on our roads. As I said previously there are indeed some great american cars in the last years - like ZR1, but again nobody will buy it here in europe. The person with the money to afford this car will buy M3/5 or AMG without even asking himself if there is a cheaper american car that could give better thrill.
On June 17 2009 02:15 ffswowsucks wrote: You quoted so much just to say he proved your point, gg no re.
that' cause i agree with most of what he wrote which is that the different continents build different cars and that for some reason everyone in europe thinks europeans cars are so superior.
also the whole american cars cant turn thing is so old tired and inaccurate
On June 12 2009 06:55 ffswowsucks wrote: if what micronesia said is true then my choice would be the BMW M3 '03 or the Nissan 350Z. Porsche boxster is not a family car and its 2 seated. Also dunno if u could get a very nice Honda Civic type - R (not the new one , the previous version, if u look for it on youtube and in top gear the guy reviewing it says the old one is much better than the new one in handling and they only added 1hp in the newer version and the new one is a bit slower).
Btw I myself want to buy a new car. VW scirocco 1.4 160hp with a 500euro upgrading it to 220hp. I love that car ~.~
scirocco r with 265hp coming soon.
if u want to have a sports car with some luxury, pick e55 amg. its fast, has quality of w211 series and some nice extras (and goes past 155mp/h those 5+l engines lack torque and need much gas compared to mercedes v8 kompressor
those 5.7 hemi v8 are slow compared to the benz. we have jeep commander with 5.7, had 300c with 3.8 (i think) and jeep commander 3.0crd (which was more fun to drive). charger/turbo missing in those big engines. nice cars tho but not good choice if u r into real fast cars
On June 17 2009 02:15 ffswowsucks wrote: You quoted so much just to say he proved your point, gg no re.
that' cause i agree with most of what he wrote which is that the different continents build different cars and that for some reason everyone in europe thinks europeans cars are so superior.
also the whole american cars cant turn thing is so old tired and inaccurate
Maybe its true but half a century must past till the stereotype is broken. Performance was not defining feature of the american cars, because of that today's achievement of the US car makers remain unnoticed. Simple example - the Ultimate Aero, or what was its name, is the fastest production car in the world right now. But nobody gives a shit, because of the Bugatti Vayron. The european car is much more exclusive to the point that the performance of the US car is completely ignored. Cadilac CTS - amazing car, that can corner well, will it be a rival of the BMW M5 ? No. Maybe its cheaper but it feels cheaper as well. I think the only american supercar that is taken seriously in europe is the ford GT40, simple because it has a racing history on Le Mans, beating the Ferraris for like 4 years in a row, besides I find the GT40 very pretty and extremely cool. Not that I dont like amerikan cars, I will gladly have one, but here in Europe, you just cant, its still somewhat not...acceptable
On June 17 2009 02:15 ffswowsucks wrote: You quoted so much just to say he proved your point, gg no re.
that' cause i agree with most of what he wrote which is that the different continents build different cars and that for some reason everyone in europe thinks europeans cars are so superior.
also the whole american cars cant turn thing is so old tired and inaccurate
Maybe its true but half a century must past till the stereotype is broken. Performance was not defining feature of the american cars, because of that today's achievement of the US car makers remain unnoticed. Simple example - the Ultimate Aero, or what was its name, is the fastest production car in the world right now. But nobody gives a shit, because of the Bugatti Vayron. The european car is much more exclusive to the point that the performance of the US car is completely ignored. Cadilac CTS - amazing car, that can corner well, will it be a rival of the BMW M5 ? No. Maybe its cheaper but it feels cheaper as well. I think the only american supercar that is taken seriously in europe is the ford GT40, simple because it has a racing history on Le Mans, beating the Ferraris for like 4 years in a row, besides I find the GT40 very pretty and extremely cool. Not that I dont like amerikan cars, I will gladly have one, but here in Europe, you just cant, its still somewhat not...acceptable
of course. you cant argue that they arent viable alternatives though. much of the anti american hate has been 'oh they are ugly' because that's really all you can say anymore. cobalt ss camaro ss cts-v z06 zr1 all these cars undercut their european competition in terms of price (at least in the US, i dont know how much they are in europe) but perform much better. are they the most luxurious all round cars? of course not. but in terms of pure engineering it's amazing what they can do and that, for most people, is what constitutes a "better" car. regardless, everyone has their biases / favorite brands etc. i just dislike the amount of unfounded hate for american cars.
nah the charger screams "look at me im a redneck douchebag". the mercedes screams "look at me im a filthy rich asian douchebag". cause thats what the asian dads drive around in my neighborhood.
mercedes = tasteless, no class. hahahhahaha just imo.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.cardata.com/images/2008_new_cars/Dodge/2008_Dodge_Charger_SRT8.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.dragtimes.com/images/12318-2006-Mercedes-Benz-E55-AMG.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/10/14/067041.1-lg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://car-reviews.automobile.com/images/cars/ArtImages/54803/alt.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1299/1207656284_f2cc82058a.jpg)
Out of that list i'd pick the benz but thats probably going to run you ~50,000 which is a lot more than the charger.
![[image loading]](http://www.noticiasautomotivas.com.br/img/b/peugeot-206-automatic-1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9900/30617343.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.dragtimes.com/images/9701-2004-Cadillac-CTS-V.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://carbl.com/im/2008/06/vw_scirocco_0-520x351.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/hyundai_genesis.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/0/N/4/1/ag_08viperacr_laas.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://newgtr.googlepages.com/2009gtr.jpg/2009gtr-full.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.agtom.eu/allegro/eleanor_10.jpg)
