• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:15
CET 13:15
KST 21:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview
Tourneys
2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2086 users

ICCup report 4.1

Blogs > Dromar
Post a Reply
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-04 08:13:46
June 04 2009 08:12 GMT
#1
I've decided to use a new numbering system. "ICCup report 4.1" indicates it's my 4th season, first report of the season. Anyway..

I'm exhausted. My hands hurt and my eyes hurt. I just played 20 consecutive games on ICCup, getting destroyed every which way (except by Terran, oddly) and it was exhausting. On the plus side, I did manage to take games from 2 C+ players, and a B- player (must have been offracing or something). I also got to play many more games against much better players. Amazingly, after the violent buttraping, I'm not frustrated. I didn't play especially well, but not especially bad either. The only frustrating losses were a ZvP where I successfully fended off a 2gate, but lost anyway, and a ZvZ where somehow my 1/1 muta army lost to his 0/0 muta army, when we were both on 2 gas. Anyway, as I said I'm exhausted, so I'm gonna keep this short. The stats:

One thing I wanted to mention though, is that, since Python was motw, it obviously got played a fair bit, but NOT ONCE did any of the players I played do the "send a worker to the corner of the base to check for overlord" trick. Not one player. I couldn't believe it.

1v1 analysis:

Zerg(29 games)
(13)ZvZ: 3-10 23.1%
(12)ZvP: 1-11 08.3%
( 4)ZvT: 3- 1 75.0%

7-22 24.1%

This Season:
Zerg(29 games)
(13)ZvZ: 3-10 23.1%
(12)ZvP: 1-11 08.3%
( 4)ZvT: 3- 1 75.0%

7-22 24.1%

ZvZ: In many of the games I lost, I lost because my opponent had better ling micro/timing. I need to scout opponent's ling count better, since I would seem to get attacked by twice as many lings just as spire finished. Sunk ain't shit when I'm outnumbered that much.


ZvP: I really don't know. The players I played against were so much better than me. I noticed they all tended to scout really early so as to guarantee the ability to harass my nat drone. Other than that, the "oldschool" fast +1 speedzeal push (no stargate) raped me pretty bad. Other than that I played some generic games, and was even winning one or two, but it always seems like an inevitability that eventually, if I don't lose to the initial push, I won't be looking and suddenly 2 or 3 psi storms will rip through 2 hotkeys worth of idle hydra/ling or something. That's kinda frustrating I guess. Even if I know it's coming it's tough to dodge.


ZvT: I only played 4 games against Terran out of these ~30, and 3 of them were on Destination. The predictability of mech on that map works in my favor, since I've gotten much better against it. Really, if you can drone-whore and also prevent vultures from doing any real damage, you come out pretty far ahead it seems. Of course, you must be also teching spire. If I scout mech, I've had much success just building a sunk at my nat, blocking it off with my 3rd hatch, and if I'm paranoid, building a sunk in my main too. Also a couple hydras help to deal with the vultures/wraiths right away. Seems like the key to beating modern mech is just defending well from the economic damage they try to deal. Then just out-expo/mass upgrades/mass units.


Questions:

ZvZ:
1. How do you keep an eye on your opponent's ling count? Is it common to "hide" lings somewhere out of sight of your opponent's overlord and then overwhelm him just as spire finishes?

ZvP:
1. When facing a really fast +1 speedzeal push, what should I do? It comes too fast for lurkers, and in my experience, mutas take a LOONG time to kill those speedzeals, which get spread through my main and nat, killing all my drones and winning the game. Lings aren't gonna do it either. What should I do?

ZvT:
Not enough games to have any questions here.

As always, comments and constructive criticism welcome.

Nytefish
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United Kingdom4282 Posts
June 04 2009 08:29 GMT
#2
ZvZ: Check his drone count in comparison with yours. Hiding lings is definitely used, not sure how common it is.

ZvP: Good building placement and sunkens is key, what some zergs like to do is fast +1 carapace after they see the forge spinning and defend it with lings. It could also be lots of little things which means you're behind before it even comes but I can't tell without a replay.
No I'm never serious.
Vex
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Ireland454 Posts
June 04 2009 08:32 GMT
#3
zvp play safer,get your bo down, and get moar sunks at your nat, block your ramp with lings so they bottleneck/.
"Bonjwa" is the most retarded word ever. Wtf does it even sound like.
Lurgee
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Australia252 Posts
June 04 2009 08:36 GMT
#4
Neo sauron style can adapt by making mutas v speedzeal rush, which will be more than capable of defending assuming you can perform basic micro. In answer to your question about zvz, hiding lings at D/C levels on icc is generally a good idea as z's will not have memorized what you will have at any given point and you may be able to take games this way.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
June 04 2009 08:38 GMT
#5
in zvz just keep an overlord over his drones

think of it this way: if you both have one hatchery, you have 15 drones, and he has 10, where did his other larva go?
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
June 04 2009 08:54 GMT
#6
also you're running into that zealot timing attack because four hatch before gas is incredibly popular right now. it's not a good pvz build, it just counters a wildly successful zerg style. You can stuff this attack by just making a shitload of sunkens while powering drones on a 3hatch muta build. Just expand like crazy after the attack & make sure you rebuild sunkens if he's gonna come back. Use your mutas to harass, but their primary purpose is to support your expansions while you get lurker tech online
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
aznmathfreak
Profile Joined March 2009
United States148 Posts
June 04 2009 09:03 GMT
#7
For the zvp, I remember there used to be a build back when +1 speedzeal rush was popular. You go 3rd hatch at a third expo, fourth hatch, and then gas. For the gas, you put down the extractor and when that finishes, you put down your evo chamber for a fast +1 carapace timed to finish at the same time as your opponent's +1 push. From there you go lair, hydra den, spire when lair finishes so that you can transition into lurker ling for mid game with 1-2 coming. I believe I learned the build from one of Chill's strategic fpvods. Anyways, it loses badly to an zealot archon push since archons rip apart lings so quickly.

If you want to use hydras to counter the build, you have to have really nice positioning. This would be if you wish for a hydralurk midgame gameplay. If you notice him skip stargate and go straight for a 3 gate zeal push or 4 gate zealot push, you could skip spire/scourges and put down a faster 5th hatch and pump out non stop hydras once you have the 34 drones needed. On destination engaging at the bridges is ideal. If it's on the expo side with the wide ramp, the general block is 2 hatchery and a sunk behind. Try using your hatches as a wall to shelter your hydras from the zealots and use drones as necessary. If that timing's still off you might want to try a 4 hatch hydra opening.
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
June 04 2009 15:43 GMT
#8
Dromarrrrrrrrrr: I want more zvz games with you later. ;o
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Group A, Day 3
WardiTV269
TKL 129
Rex82
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Reynor 305
TKL 129
Rex 82
ProTech74
Lowko59
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 8315
GuemChi 2268
Stork 619
Pusan 533
BeSt 519
Larva 206
Leta 194
Zeus 192
EffOrt 176
Rush 122
[ Show more ]
Light 94
Killer 89
hero 71
ToSsGirL 70
ZerO 56
Mind 47
Barracks 37
yabsab 31
Movie 26
Icarus 13
Terrorterran 12
Noble 12
Hm[arnc] 8
Dota 2
Gorgc2947
singsing1619
XaKoH 526
Dendi229
XcaliburYe83
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss658
zeus616
x6flipin605
allub305
Other Games
summit1g15660
olofmeister1477
B2W.Neo753
Pyrionflax332
crisheroes316
Fuzer 259
RotterdaM64
QueenE31
Trikslyr27
ZerO(Twitch)9
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream11372
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream4445
Other Games
gamesdonequick532
BasetradeTV29
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 16
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
BSL: GosuLeague
8h 45m
PiGosaur Cup
12h 45m
The PondCast
21h 45m
Replay Cast
1d 10h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
BSL: GosuLeague
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
4 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
IPSL
5 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.