• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:24
CEST 11:24
KST 18:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
GSTL Returns in 2026!32Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-611
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement! Protoss AoE skill expression Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 538 Media Blackout The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Best Games Kespa era [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 ASL22 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5898 users

ICCup report 4.1

Blogs > Dromar
Post a Reply
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-04 08:13:46
June 04 2009 08:12 GMT
#1
I've decided to use a new numbering system. "ICCup report 4.1" indicates it's my 4th season, first report of the season. Anyway..

I'm exhausted. My hands hurt and my eyes hurt. I just played 20 consecutive games on ICCup, getting destroyed every which way (except by Terran, oddly) and it was exhausting. On the plus side, I did manage to take games from 2 C+ players, and a B- player (must have been offracing or something). I also got to play many more games against much better players. Amazingly, after the violent buttraping, I'm not frustrated. I didn't play especially well, but not especially bad either. The only frustrating losses were a ZvP where I successfully fended off a 2gate, but lost anyway, and a ZvZ where somehow my 1/1 muta army lost to his 0/0 muta army, when we were both on 2 gas. Anyway, as I said I'm exhausted, so I'm gonna keep this short. The stats:

One thing I wanted to mention though, is that, since Python was motw, it obviously got played a fair bit, but NOT ONCE did any of the players I played do the "send a worker to the corner of the base to check for overlord" trick. Not one player. I couldn't believe it.

1v1 analysis:

Zerg(29 games)
(13)ZvZ: 3-10 23.1%
(12)ZvP: 1-11 08.3%
( 4)ZvT: 3- 1 75.0%

7-22 24.1%

This Season:
Zerg(29 games)
(13)ZvZ: 3-10 23.1%
(12)ZvP: 1-11 08.3%
( 4)ZvT: 3- 1 75.0%

7-22 24.1%

ZvZ: In many of the games I lost, I lost because my opponent had better ling micro/timing. I need to scout opponent's ling count better, since I would seem to get attacked by twice as many lings just as spire finished. Sunk ain't shit when I'm outnumbered that much.


ZvP: I really don't know. The players I played against were so much better than me. I noticed they all tended to scout really early so as to guarantee the ability to harass my nat drone. Other than that, the "oldschool" fast +1 speedzeal push (no stargate) raped me pretty bad. Other than that I played some generic games, and was even winning one or two, but it always seems like an inevitability that eventually, if I don't lose to the initial push, I won't be looking and suddenly 2 or 3 psi storms will rip through 2 hotkeys worth of idle hydra/ling or something. That's kinda frustrating I guess. Even if I know it's coming it's tough to dodge.


ZvT: I only played 4 games against Terran out of these ~30, and 3 of them were on Destination. The predictability of mech on that map works in my favor, since I've gotten much better against it. Really, if you can drone-whore and also prevent vultures from doing any real damage, you come out pretty far ahead it seems. Of course, you must be also teching spire. If I scout mech, I've had much success just building a sunk at my nat, blocking it off with my 3rd hatch, and if I'm paranoid, building a sunk in my main too. Also a couple hydras help to deal with the vultures/wraiths right away. Seems like the key to beating modern mech is just defending well from the economic damage they try to deal. Then just out-expo/mass upgrades/mass units.


Questions:

ZvZ:
1. How do you keep an eye on your opponent's ling count? Is it common to "hide" lings somewhere out of sight of your opponent's overlord and then overwhelm him just as spire finishes?

ZvP:
1. When facing a really fast +1 speedzeal push, what should I do? It comes too fast for lurkers, and in my experience, mutas take a LOONG time to kill those speedzeals, which get spread through my main and nat, killing all my drones and winning the game. Lings aren't gonna do it either. What should I do?

ZvT:
Not enough games to have any questions here.

As always, comments and constructive criticism welcome.

Nytefish
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United Kingdom4282 Posts
June 04 2009 08:29 GMT
#2
ZvZ: Check his drone count in comparison with yours. Hiding lings is definitely used, not sure how common it is.

ZvP: Good building placement and sunkens is key, what some zergs like to do is fast +1 carapace after they see the forge spinning and defend it with lings. It could also be lots of little things which means you're behind before it even comes but I can't tell without a replay.
No I'm never serious.
Vex
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Ireland454 Posts
June 04 2009 08:32 GMT
#3
zvp play safer,get your bo down, and get moar sunks at your nat, block your ramp with lings so they bottleneck/.
"Bonjwa" is the most retarded word ever. Wtf does it even sound like.
Lurgee
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Australia252 Posts
June 04 2009 08:36 GMT
#4
Neo sauron style can adapt by making mutas v speedzeal rush, which will be more than capable of defending assuming you can perform basic micro. In answer to your question about zvz, hiding lings at D/C levels on icc is generally a good idea as z's will not have memorized what you will have at any given point and you may be able to take games this way.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
June 04 2009 08:38 GMT
#5
in zvz just keep an overlord over his drones

think of it this way: if you both have one hatchery, you have 15 drones, and he has 10, where did his other larva go?
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
June 04 2009 08:54 GMT
#6
also you're running into that zealot timing attack because four hatch before gas is incredibly popular right now. it's not a good pvz build, it just counters a wildly successful zerg style. You can stuff this attack by just making a shitload of sunkens while powering drones on a 3hatch muta build. Just expand like crazy after the attack & make sure you rebuild sunkens if he's gonna come back. Use your mutas to harass, but their primary purpose is to support your expansions while you get lurker tech online
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
aznmathfreak
Profile Joined March 2009
United States148 Posts
June 04 2009 09:03 GMT
#7
For the zvp, I remember there used to be a build back when +1 speedzeal rush was popular. You go 3rd hatch at a third expo, fourth hatch, and then gas. For the gas, you put down the extractor and when that finishes, you put down your evo chamber for a fast +1 carapace timed to finish at the same time as your opponent's +1 push. From there you go lair, hydra den, spire when lair finishes so that you can transition into lurker ling for mid game with 1-2 coming. I believe I learned the build from one of Chill's strategic fpvods. Anyways, it loses badly to an zealot archon push since archons rip apart lings so quickly.

If you want to use hydras to counter the build, you have to have really nice positioning. This would be if you wish for a hydralurk midgame gameplay. If you notice him skip stargate and go straight for a 3 gate zeal push or 4 gate zealot push, you could skip spire/scourges and put down a faster 5th hatch and pump out non stop hydras once you have the 34 drones needed. On destination engaging at the bridges is ideal. If it's on the expo side with the wide ramp, the general block is 2 hatchery and a sunk behind. Try using your hatches as a wall to shelter your hydras from the zealots and use drones as necessary. If that timing's still off you might want to try a 4 hatch hydra opening.
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
June 04 2009 15:43 GMT
#8
Dromarrrrrrrrrr: I want more zvz games with you later. ;o
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 36m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Has 67
MindelVK 16
StarCraft: Brood War
Soma 258
BeSt 237
Hyuk 171
Leta 117
Rush 97
PianO 96
Bale 53
Sharp 49
actioN 38
Mong 35
[ Show more ]
NotJumperer 8
Horang2 0
Dota 2
The International35838
singsing4081
Fuzer 376
KheZu117
XcaliburYe57
League of Legends
JimRising 481
Counter-Strike
byalli1060
zeus142
edward27
kRYSTAL_15
Other Games
summit1g6836
ROOTCatZ143
Mew2King47
Trikslyr21
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick562
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 17
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH310
• StrangeGG 86
• LUISG 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1421
League of Legends
• Jankos1461
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
36m
PiG Sty Festival
2h 36m
herO vs Krystianer
Solar vs Cure
IPSL
6h 36m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
PiG Sty Festival
1d 2h
Maru vs Shameless
Reynor vs TriGGeR
IPSL
1d 6h
OSC
1d 14h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Rush vs Hm
Bisu vs Shuttle
WardiTV Weekly
2 days
The Patches Monday
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Sharp vs Shinee
Action vs Shine
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
CSLAN 4
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.