• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 08:15
CET 14:15
KST 22:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump0Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win
Tourneys
StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Foreign Brood War Data analysis on 70 million replays MBCGame Torrents
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1223 users

ICCup report 4.1

Blogs > Dromar
Post a Reply
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-04 08:13:46
June 04 2009 08:12 GMT
#1
I've decided to use a new numbering system. "ICCup report 4.1" indicates it's my 4th season, first report of the season. Anyway..

I'm exhausted. My hands hurt and my eyes hurt. I just played 20 consecutive games on ICCup, getting destroyed every which way (except by Terran, oddly) and it was exhausting. On the plus side, I did manage to take games from 2 C+ players, and a B- player (must have been offracing or something). I also got to play many more games against much better players. Amazingly, after the violent buttraping, I'm not frustrated. I didn't play especially well, but not especially bad either. The only frustrating losses were a ZvP where I successfully fended off a 2gate, but lost anyway, and a ZvZ where somehow my 1/1 muta army lost to his 0/0 muta army, when we were both on 2 gas. Anyway, as I said I'm exhausted, so I'm gonna keep this short. The stats:

One thing I wanted to mention though, is that, since Python was motw, it obviously got played a fair bit, but NOT ONCE did any of the players I played do the "send a worker to the corner of the base to check for overlord" trick. Not one player. I couldn't believe it.

1v1 analysis:

Zerg(29 games)
(13)ZvZ: 3-10 23.1%
(12)ZvP: 1-11 08.3%
( 4)ZvT: 3- 1 75.0%

7-22 24.1%

This Season:
Zerg(29 games)
(13)ZvZ: 3-10 23.1%
(12)ZvP: 1-11 08.3%
( 4)ZvT: 3- 1 75.0%

7-22 24.1%

ZvZ: In many of the games I lost, I lost because my opponent had better ling micro/timing. I need to scout opponent's ling count better, since I would seem to get attacked by twice as many lings just as spire finished. Sunk ain't shit when I'm outnumbered that much.


ZvP: I really don't know. The players I played against were so much better than me. I noticed they all tended to scout really early so as to guarantee the ability to harass my nat drone. Other than that, the "oldschool" fast +1 speedzeal push (no stargate) raped me pretty bad. Other than that I played some generic games, and was even winning one or two, but it always seems like an inevitability that eventually, if I don't lose to the initial push, I won't be looking and suddenly 2 or 3 psi storms will rip through 2 hotkeys worth of idle hydra/ling or something. That's kinda frustrating I guess. Even if I know it's coming it's tough to dodge.


ZvT: I only played 4 games against Terran out of these ~30, and 3 of them were on Destination. The predictability of mech on that map works in my favor, since I've gotten much better against it. Really, if you can drone-whore and also prevent vultures from doing any real damage, you come out pretty far ahead it seems. Of course, you must be also teching spire. If I scout mech, I've had much success just building a sunk at my nat, blocking it off with my 3rd hatch, and if I'm paranoid, building a sunk in my main too. Also a couple hydras help to deal with the vultures/wraiths right away. Seems like the key to beating modern mech is just defending well from the economic damage they try to deal. Then just out-expo/mass upgrades/mass units.


Questions:

ZvZ:
1. How do you keep an eye on your opponent's ling count? Is it common to "hide" lings somewhere out of sight of your opponent's overlord and then overwhelm him just as spire finishes?

ZvP:
1. When facing a really fast +1 speedzeal push, what should I do? It comes too fast for lurkers, and in my experience, mutas take a LOONG time to kill those speedzeals, which get spread through my main and nat, killing all my drones and winning the game. Lings aren't gonna do it either. What should I do?

ZvT:
Not enough games to have any questions here.

As always, comments and constructive criticism welcome.

Nytefish
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United Kingdom4282 Posts
June 04 2009 08:29 GMT
#2
ZvZ: Check his drone count in comparison with yours. Hiding lings is definitely used, not sure how common it is.

ZvP: Good building placement and sunkens is key, what some zergs like to do is fast +1 carapace after they see the forge spinning and defend it with lings. It could also be lots of little things which means you're behind before it even comes but I can't tell without a replay.
No I'm never serious.
Vex
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Ireland454 Posts
June 04 2009 08:32 GMT
#3
zvp play safer,get your bo down, and get moar sunks at your nat, block your ramp with lings so they bottleneck/.
"Bonjwa" is the most retarded word ever. Wtf does it even sound like.
Lurgee
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Australia252 Posts
June 04 2009 08:36 GMT
#4
Neo sauron style can adapt by making mutas v speedzeal rush, which will be more than capable of defending assuming you can perform basic micro. In answer to your question about zvz, hiding lings at D/C levels on icc is generally a good idea as z's will not have memorized what you will have at any given point and you may be able to take games this way.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
June 04 2009 08:38 GMT
#5
in zvz just keep an overlord over his drones

think of it this way: if you both have one hatchery, you have 15 drones, and he has 10, where did his other larva go?
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
June 04 2009 08:54 GMT
#6
also you're running into that zealot timing attack because four hatch before gas is incredibly popular right now. it's not a good pvz build, it just counters a wildly successful zerg style. You can stuff this attack by just making a shitload of sunkens while powering drones on a 3hatch muta build. Just expand like crazy after the attack & make sure you rebuild sunkens if he's gonna come back. Use your mutas to harass, but their primary purpose is to support your expansions while you get lurker tech online
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
aznmathfreak
Profile Joined March 2009
United States148 Posts
June 04 2009 09:03 GMT
#7
For the zvp, I remember there used to be a build back when +1 speedzeal rush was popular. You go 3rd hatch at a third expo, fourth hatch, and then gas. For the gas, you put down the extractor and when that finishes, you put down your evo chamber for a fast +1 carapace timed to finish at the same time as your opponent's +1 push. From there you go lair, hydra den, spire when lair finishes so that you can transition into lurker ling for mid game with 1-2 coming. I believe I learned the build from one of Chill's strategic fpvods. Anyways, it loses badly to an zealot archon push since archons rip apart lings so quickly.

If you want to use hydras to counter the build, you have to have really nice positioning. This would be if you wish for a hydralurk midgame gameplay. If you notice him skip stargate and go straight for a 3 gate zeal push or 4 gate zealot push, you could skip spire/scourges and put down a faster 5th hatch and pump out non stop hydras once you have the 34 drones needed. On destination engaging at the bridges is ideal. If it's on the expo side with the wide ramp, the general block is 2 hatchery and a sunk behind. Try using your hatches as a wall to shelter your hydras from the zealots and use drones as necessary. If that timing's still off you might want to try a 4 hatch hydra opening.
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11393 Posts
June 04 2009 15:43 GMT
#8
Dromarrrrrrrrrr: I want more zvz games with you later. ;o
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV 2025
12:00
Group Stage 1 - Group C
WardiTV774
ComeBackTV 344
TaKeTV 183
IndyStarCraft 147
Rex127
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Reynor 512
Lowko298
IndyStarCraft 147
Rex 127
ProTech120
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 5957
GuemChi 1290
Soma 1027
Larva 938
Mini 735
BeSt 594
ZerO 572
firebathero 568
Light 505
Hyuk 342
[ Show more ]
Snow 308
actioN 195
hero 173
ggaemo 151
PianO 148
Hyun 144
Killer 131
Rush 109
Leta 105
JYJ 102
EffOrt 90
Pusan 79
Sea.KH 70
Mind 69
910 66
sorry 55
Shine 49
Movie 42
ToSsGirL 38
Sacsri 36
JulyZerg 30
Free 28
Shinee 24
Aegong 24
Terrorterran 18
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
Noble 15
scan(afreeca) 13
zelot 12
Icarus 8
Bale 7
Dota 2
singsing2517
qojqva967
Dendi727
XcaliburYe142
BananaSlamJamma75
League of Legends
rGuardiaN132
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2220
byalli515
x6flipin513
allub285
oskar73
chrisJcsgo52
Other Games
B2W.Neo1110
crisheroes358
Fuzer 227
QueenE36
ZerO(Twitch)17
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1162
lovetv 4
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2680
• WagamamaTV317
• lizZardDota269
League of Legends
• Jankos2570
Upcoming Events
StarCraft2.fi
2h 45m
PiGosaur Monday
11h 45m
StarCraft2.fi
1d 3h
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
1d 10h
The PondCast
1d 20h
WardiTV 2025
1d 22h
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
4 days
Sziky vs JDConan
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs TBD
herO vs Zoun
WardiTV 2025
4 days
IPSL
5 days
Tarson vs DragOn
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Revival: Season 3
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.