• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:07
CEST 15:07
KST 22:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting9[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5
Community News
BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET4Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO85.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)80Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition32
StarCraft 2
General
TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting Stellar Fest: StarCraft II returns to Canada herO Talks: Poor Performance at EWC and more... Revisiting the game after10 years and wow it's bad Weekly Cups (Oct 6-12): Four star herO
Tourneys
$1,200 WardiTV October (Oct 21st-31st) WardiTV Mondays RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More
Brood War
General
BSL Team A vs Koreans - Sat-Sun 16:00 CET BW General Discussion Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game [Interview] Grrrr... 2024 Pros React To: BarrackS + FlaSh Coaching vs SnOw
Tourneys
[ASL20] Semifinal B SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Semifinal A
Strategy
Relatively freeroll strategies BW - ajfirecracker Strategy & Training Current Meta Siegecraft - a new perspective
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Men's Fashion Thread Sex and weight loss
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Series you have seen recently... Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Heroism of Pepe the Fro…
Peanutsc
Rocket League: Traits, Abili…
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1397 users

ICCup report 4.1

Blogs > Dromar
Post a Reply
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-04 08:13:46
June 04 2009 08:12 GMT
#1
I've decided to use a new numbering system. "ICCup report 4.1" indicates it's my 4th season, first report of the season. Anyway..

I'm exhausted. My hands hurt and my eyes hurt. I just played 20 consecutive games on ICCup, getting destroyed every which way (except by Terran, oddly) and it was exhausting. On the plus side, I did manage to take games from 2 C+ players, and a B- player (must have been offracing or something). I also got to play many more games against much better players. Amazingly, after the violent buttraping, I'm not frustrated. I didn't play especially well, but not especially bad either. The only frustrating losses were a ZvP where I successfully fended off a 2gate, but lost anyway, and a ZvZ where somehow my 1/1 muta army lost to his 0/0 muta army, when we were both on 2 gas. Anyway, as I said I'm exhausted, so I'm gonna keep this short. The stats:

One thing I wanted to mention though, is that, since Python was motw, it obviously got played a fair bit, but NOT ONCE did any of the players I played do the "send a worker to the corner of the base to check for overlord" trick. Not one player. I couldn't believe it.

1v1 analysis:

Zerg(29 games)
(13)ZvZ: 3-10 23.1%
(12)ZvP: 1-11 08.3%
( 4)ZvT: 3- 1 75.0%

7-22 24.1%

This Season:
Zerg(29 games)
(13)ZvZ: 3-10 23.1%
(12)ZvP: 1-11 08.3%
( 4)ZvT: 3- 1 75.0%

7-22 24.1%

ZvZ: In many of the games I lost, I lost because my opponent had better ling micro/timing. I need to scout opponent's ling count better, since I would seem to get attacked by twice as many lings just as spire finished. Sunk ain't shit when I'm outnumbered that much.


ZvP: I really don't know. The players I played against were so much better than me. I noticed they all tended to scout really early so as to guarantee the ability to harass my nat drone. Other than that, the "oldschool" fast +1 speedzeal push (no stargate) raped me pretty bad. Other than that I played some generic games, and was even winning one or two, but it always seems like an inevitability that eventually, if I don't lose to the initial push, I won't be looking and suddenly 2 or 3 psi storms will rip through 2 hotkeys worth of idle hydra/ling or something. That's kinda frustrating I guess. Even if I know it's coming it's tough to dodge.


ZvT: I only played 4 games against Terran out of these ~30, and 3 of them were on Destination. The predictability of mech on that map works in my favor, since I've gotten much better against it. Really, if you can drone-whore and also prevent vultures from doing any real damage, you come out pretty far ahead it seems. Of course, you must be also teching spire. If I scout mech, I've had much success just building a sunk at my nat, blocking it off with my 3rd hatch, and if I'm paranoid, building a sunk in my main too. Also a couple hydras help to deal with the vultures/wraiths right away. Seems like the key to beating modern mech is just defending well from the economic damage they try to deal. Then just out-expo/mass upgrades/mass units.


Questions:

ZvZ:
1. How do you keep an eye on your opponent's ling count? Is it common to "hide" lings somewhere out of sight of your opponent's overlord and then overwhelm him just as spire finishes?

ZvP:
1. When facing a really fast +1 speedzeal push, what should I do? It comes too fast for lurkers, and in my experience, mutas take a LOONG time to kill those speedzeals, which get spread through my main and nat, killing all my drones and winning the game. Lings aren't gonna do it either. What should I do?

ZvT:
Not enough games to have any questions here.

As always, comments and constructive criticism welcome.

Nytefish
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United Kingdom4282 Posts
June 04 2009 08:29 GMT
#2
ZvZ: Check his drone count in comparison with yours. Hiding lings is definitely used, not sure how common it is.

ZvP: Good building placement and sunkens is key, what some zergs like to do is fast +1 carapace after they see the forge spinning and defend it with lings. It could also be lots of little things which means you're behind before it even comes but I can't tell without a replay.
No I'm never serious.
Vex
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Ireland454 Posts
June 04 2009 08:32 GMT
#3
zvp play safer,get your bo down, and get moar sunks at your nat, block your ramp with lings so they bottleneck/.
"Bonjwa" is the most retarded word ever. Wtf does it even sound like.
Lurgee
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Australia252 Posts
June 04 2009 08:36 GMT
#4
Neo sauron style can adapt by making mutas v speedzeal rush, which will be more than capable of defending assuming you can perform basic micro. In answer to your question about zvz, hiding lings at D/C levels on icc is generally a good idea as z's will not have memorized what you will have at any given point and you may be able to take games this way.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
June 04 2009 08:38 GMT
#5
in zvz just keep an overlord over his drones

think of it this way: if you both have one hatchery, you have 15 drones, and he has 10, where did his other larva go?
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
June 04 2009 08:54 GMT
#6
also you're running into that zealot timing attack because four hatch before gas is incredibly popular right now. it's not a good pvz build, it just counters a wildly successful zerg style. You can stuff this attack by just making a shitload of sunkens while powering drones on a 3hatch muta build. Just expand like crazy after the attack & make sure you rebuild sunkens if he's gonna come back. Use your mutas to harass, but their primary purpose is to support your expansions while you get lurker tech online
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
aznmathfreak
Profile Joined March 2009
United States148 Posts
June 04 2009 09:03 GMT
#7
For the zvp, I remember there used to be a build back when +1 speedzeal rush was popular. You go 3rd hatch at a third expo, fourth hatch, and then gas. For the gas, you put down the extractor and when that finishes, you put down your evo chamber for a fast +1 carapace timed to finish at the same time as your opponent's +1 push. From there you go lair, hydra den, spire when lair finishes so that you can transition into lurker ling for mid game with 1-2 coming. I believe I learned the build from one of Chill's strategic fpvods. Anyways, it loses badly to an zealot archon push since archons rip apart lings so quickly.

If you want to use hydras to counter the build, you have to have really nice positioning. This would be if you wish for a hydralurk midgame gameplay. If you notice him skip stargate and go straight for a 3 gate zeal push or 4 gate zealot push, you could skip spire/scourges and put down a faster 5th hatch and pump out non stop hydras once you have the 34 drones needed. On destination engaging at the bridges is ideal. If it's on the expo side with the wide ramp, the general block is 2 hatchery and a sunk behind. Try using your hatches as a wall to shelter your hydras from the zealots and use drones as necessary. If that timing's still off you might want to try a 4 hatch hydra opening.
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11392 Posts
June 04 2009 15:43 GMT
#8
Dromarrrrrrrrrr: I want more zvz games with you later. ;o
Moderator。◕‿◕。
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Master Swan Open #97
CranKy Ducklings80
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko373
IndyStarCraft 163
LamboSC2 147
BRAT_OK 49
MindelVK 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34421
Calm 10346
Rain 5300
actioN 2047
Horang2 1980
Bisu 1496
GuemChi 1462
Flash 1017
Hyuk 975
Jaedong 812
[ Show more ]
Mini 407
firebathero 367
Last 248
Stork 236
Hyun 191
Soulkey 123
Barracks 101
hero 82
ggaemo 72
ToSsGirL 60
JYJ47
sas.Sziky 39
Backho 38
Aegong 27
Free 26
Sacsri 20
sSak 19
soO 17
scan(afreeca) 13
ivOry 10
HiyA 10
Dota 2
Gorgc2458
XcaliburYe1049
420jenkins477
Fuzer 220
KheZu86
Counter-Strike
byalli234
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor294
Other Games
summit1g15710
singsing2591
B2W.Neo745
DeMusliM369
Happy245
Mew2King174
ToD26
Trikslyr14
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH173
• StrangeGG 44
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler77
League of Legends
• Nemesis4635
• Jankos2433
Upcoming Events
BSL Team A[vengers]
54m
Bonyth vs Paralyze
StRyKeR vs Ample
Safe House 2
3h 54m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 54m
Safe House 2
1d 3h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
WardiTV TLMC #15
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
EC S1
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.