• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:43
CEST 18:43
KST 01:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes116BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch2Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL20 General Discussion Soulkey on ASL S20 ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch [ASL20] Ro16 Group C Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Borderlands 3 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Too Many LANs? Tournament Ov…
TrAiDoS
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1352 users

Theravada Buddhism - Rebirth For Dummies

Blogs > Deleted User 3420
Post a Reply
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
May 26 2009 03:42 GMT
#1
Ok guys, I am going to try to give a brief lesson on the concept of rebirth in Buddha's teachings. It will be a 2 parter, with this first part introducing the basics.

First I would like to address some misconceptions about what rebirth is/is not.

Rebirth is not reincarnation. It is not the dying of a body and then it coming back to life.

Rebirth is also not the dying of a body and then coming back to life as another body. There is no soul in Buddha's teachings.

So then you may ask, what is reborn? Well, to explain this, I will first introduce the skandas.

The skandas are 5 elements(parts, classes of phenomena, whatever u want to call them) which make up what we experience in our lives. The skandas are manifested into experience through desire, but this is complicated and will probably be delved into in lesson 2.

The 5 skandas are classified as follows:

1.) Form (not particularily important to the lesson)

2.) Feelings (emotion, sensation)

3.) Perceptions (what you think of the feelings - like or dislike, etc)

4.) Volition (intent of your actions. karma is a result of this)

5.) Consciousness (your mental state, it is comprised of many mental factors, Theravada Buddhism separates it into 52 different mental factors)



Ok, so these 5 skandas are what comprise everything you experience. So, in reality, they are what you are. You are the 5 skandas, nothing more. Everything you feel, percieve, believe, remember, experience, it's all just the skandas. You are your skandas.

But the skandas actually come as a result of something else. The skandas are the result of craving. I will give an example, for the sake of simplicity I will choose an easy one to understand.

The 2nd skanda, feelings. When you feel pleasure, it is the 2nd skanda. Now - feeling this pleasure - it is actually the result of a craving to feel the pleasure. It is only because we are so blinded and distracted that we don't realize this. This is the kind of stuff monks are figuring out when they spend all their time meditating - they are seeing past these illusions. But I digress, this blog post could end up running on forever.

The reason this is relevant to rebirth is that what is being reborn, over and over, is actually craving. It is craving that the skandas result from, and so it is craving that our experiences result from. So when Buddha taught about rebirth, he was actually talking about the death of craving, and it's rebirth.

To put this in terms relevant to our physical bodies - when we die there is a death of this craving. Desire for sensation, for the various experiences - ends. Temporarily. But the craving comes back.

The craving comes back and the desire to experience manifests as experience. In doing so, the experiences must have a form - and so they do. That form is a physical body. Understand that this craving has no physical bounds, it is untied to the physical world. But to experience the skandas, there must be a link to the physical world.

So, when you die, your cravings end and then they come back, they are reborn. And so the skandas are reborn. And so, depending on the skandas, they may be attached to a physical form - a body.

And this is what Buddha means when he talks of a person being reborn as another person. There is no soul or self moving, just the elements that result from the craving that was left behind when the body died.


Ok, I hope this isn't too hard to follow. I will write part 2 some time, I don't know when.

Feel free to write questions or comments. The end.

*****
JohnColtrane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia4813 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-26 03:52:45
May 26 2009 03:48 GMT
#2
shouldnt sensation be a part of perceptions too?

is pleasure possible without being the consequence of a craving? Is pleasure acceptable to experience?

also, what do you mean by illusion? the illusion of cravings that cause pleasure?
HEY MEYT
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-26 03:55:39
May 26 2009 03:51 GMT
#3
No, sensation is separate from perception. Though the fact that you ask that question means you at least understand what I am talking about, because it really isn't a bad question.

Perception would be "this feels cold" or "this cold feels nice".

Sensation would be just the direct experiencing of cold, with no skanda interpreting it's relationship to you.


On May 26 2009 12:48 JohnColtrane wrote:
shouldnt sensation be a part of perceptions too?

is pleasure possible without being the consequence of a craving? Is pleasure acceptable to experience?


Well this gets very far off track from rebirth but I like receiving any questions whatsoever so I will try to answer.

Pleasure, in the way you most likely interpret it, is not possible without craving.
Experience, in the way you most likely interpret it, is not possible without craving.

Do you have empty moments where you do not experience anything? Those moments resulted from non-craving.

The moments where you experience something result from craving.
JohnColtrane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Australia4813 Posts
May 26 2009 03:54 GMT
#4
are you a practising buddhist travis, or just interested in studying it?
HEY MEYT
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-26 04:00:40
May 26 2009 03:58 GMT
#5
I live my life in practice but I don't do sitting meditation. I believe I will eventually.

Living my life in practice means that i attempt to follow the "noble 8 fold path"


1.Right Understanding
2.Right Thoughts
3.Right Speech
4.Right Action
5.Right Livelihood
6.Right Effort
7.Right Mindfulness
8.Right Concentration


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path
ieatkids5
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
United States4628 Posts
May 26 2009 04:01 GMT
#6
oh cool thanks for posting this
pretty random, but its interesting to know their beliefs
SCC-Faust
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3736 Posts
May 26 2009 04:04 GMT
#7
Why is there such a common misconception with people believing that Buddhism believes in reincarnation?
I want to fuck Soulkey with a Zelderan.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-26 04:09:54
May 26 2009 04:09 GMT
#8
On May 26 2009 13:04 SCC-Faust wrote:
Why is there such a common misconception with people believing that Buddhism believes in reincarnation?


I would imagine it is because most westerners have never considered a view where there is no self or soul.

Maybe it's a common misconception in the east, too, actually. I don't really know.
LeperKahn
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Romania1845 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-26 04:11:56
May 26 2009 04:11 GMT
#9
On May 26 2009 13:04 SCC-Faust wrote:
Why is there such a common misconception with people believing that Buddhism believes in reincarnation?


Because in the west we hear of Buddhism through the study of cultures, not through Buddhist teachings. Since the study of religions in the west is scientific when there is even a mention of rebirth in any form the "reincarnation" box is checked.

@^ That too.
CJ Entusman #14 • http://soundcloud.com/discodinosaur • https://discosaur.bandcamp.com/
Bockit
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sydney2287 Posts
May 26 2009 07:32 GMT
#10
I did a few courses in religious studies during my coursework at uni and unfortunately when we covered buddhism I was more focused on writing an essay on daoism to be paying too much attention >_> and the only thing I really remembered from it was that western perception of reincarnation (one body dies, come back as a new body) was grossly flawed, just not why.

So many thanks for this blog
Their are four errors in this sentance.
drug_vict1m
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
844 Posts
May 26 2009 08:38 GMT
#11
so where does consciousness lie in this?
how are we aware ?

is consciousness = craving?
One must feel chaos within, to give birth to a dancing star.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-26 09:23:37
May 26 2009 09:22 GMT
#12
On May 26 2009 17:38 drug_vict1m wrote:
so where does consciousness lie in this?


what do u mean exactly?


how are we aware ?


we are aware because of a desire for understanding, which has culminated through various lifetimes


is consciousness = craving?


craving is the source of anything that we experience. but it is a different phenomena from the experiences theirselves.

there is something like a basic emptiness that underlies everything we experience. it is in this emptiness that craving is conditioned. the conditioned craving brings about the experiences, because that is what the craving is for.

the exact same 2 events can happen but in one example, a person experiences the events through sensations and feelings and forms perceptions and is conscious. but in the other example, that same person could just not experience anything other than emptiness.

it is easy to think of our consciousness as some static part of us, but in reality it is ever changing, all of the parts of it are changing states all the time. and sometimes there is no consciousness experienced at all.
drug_vict1m
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
844 Posts
May 26 2009 09:45 GMT
#13

Show nested quote +
so where does consciousness lie in this?


what do u mean exactly?

is there a reason for consciousness?or maybe more fundamental what is consciousness?


Show nested quote +

how are we aware ?


we are aware because of a desire for understanding, which has culminated through various lifetimes

so can i say that its the craving for understanding (understanding what?) ?
thus craving = awareness?

Show nested quote +

is consciousness = craving?


craving is the source of anything that we experience. but it is a different phenomena from the experiences theirselves.

there is something like a basic emptiness that underlies everything we experience. it is in this emptiness that craving is conditioned. the conditioned craving brings about the experiences, because that is what the craving is for.

the exact same 2 events can happen but in one example, a person experiences the events through sensations and feelings and forms perceptions and is conscious. but in the other example, that same person could just not experience anything other than emptiness.

it is easy to think of our consciousness as some static part of us, but in reality it is ever changing, all of the parts of it are changing states all the time. and sometimes there is no consciousness experienced at all.


so how do we experience?what gives us such a possibility?and why?
and if we are not our consciousness then who are we?
One must feel chaos within, to give birth to a dancing star.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-05-26 10:32:17
May 26 2009 10:30 GMT
#14

is there a reason for consciousness?


Each skanda is dependent on the previous skandas. For consciousness to exist, there must be presence of the previous 4 skandas. Consciousness is the basis of ideas and concepts. Of thoughts and memories. And of much more.


or maybe more fundamental what is consciousness?


you experience it, you know what it is. I can't explain it any better than your experiences do for you.


so can i say that its the craving for understanding (understanding what?) ?


ignore this I think I misunderstood you


thus craving = awareness?


no. the natural state of our experiences is emptiness. but there is the potential for craving within this emptiness. this craving is on a very basic level, it is nothing more than taking delight in life itself. if you see, it is the result of craving for sight. if you smell it is from craving for smell.

the awareness is just a conditioned aspect of our consciousness. I cannot answer precisely without knowing exactly what you mean by awareness.

but our non-empty experiences just result from a conditioned craving to take delight in whatever it is we experience.

by "take delight" i mean "be involved in".



so how do we experience?what gives us such a possibility?and why?


we experience because the potential exists. even buddha said he didn't know the reason, he said that it just always was that way. natural laws I guess.

but there is a natural progression towards understanding. and through this progression there is a sort of evolution of the mind(and perhaps of form). it is through this evolution that one can be born as a human and have the faculties for awakening(the path to enlightenment)



and if we are not our consciousness then who are we?


we are our consciousness. but we are not selves and we have no souls. in reality you are as much you as you are all the other beings.

the source of our consciousness is an emptiness which is shared by all as it has no form and is not bound by dimensions. from this emptiness comes the craving for skandas. the cravings are what form separate beings, because the cravings are separate. but not the emptiness.

drug_vict1m
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
844 Posts
May 26 2009 11:35 GMT
#15
i c i c
and your thoughts about energy?
can emptiness be assumed as energy?or maybe skandas are a form of it?

and about progression
is it also a part of skandas?why do "we" want it?



One must feel chaos within, to give birth to a dancing star.
foeffa
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Belgium2115 Posts
May 26 2009 14:40 GMT
#16
I had to study all this stuff for my Chinese religion course at uni. Man those Sanskrit names gave me a headache. :|
觀過斯知仁矣.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
May 26 2009 18:22 GMT
#17
On May 26 2009 20:35 drug_vict1m wrote:
i c i c
and your thoughts about energy?
can emptiness be assumed as energy?or maybe skandas are a form of it?


I think that is just adding mroe views and further complicates things.


and about progression
is it also a part of skandas?why do "we" want it?


all that we experience is the skandas so if we experience progression, then yes it is part of the skandas

we want it because we want to understand our situation. our mind has developed to a point where we see that understanding can set us free. it is referred to as buddha nature.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddha-nature
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 18m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 460
PiGStarcraft361
RotterdaM 292
TKL 135
UpATreeSC 58
Codebar 33
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 33920
Hyuk 3564
actioN 2135
Rain 2115
Leta 253
BeSt 198
Soulkey 167
Mind 68
PianO 67
Hyun 57
[ Show more ]
Backho 24
Terrorterran 21
Movie 21
Free 20
soO 18
Sacsri 10
Noble 9
HiyA 9
Shine 6
Dota 2
Gorgc7133
qojqva3268
420jenkins281
Fuzer 191
XcaliburYe158
Counter-Strike
Fnx 53
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby1688
Other Games
tarik_tv37074
gofns15407
FrodaN1927
B2W.Neo686
crisheroes416
Lowko280
KnowMe260
Hui .240
XaKoH 112
ceh993
QueenE77
Trikslyr52
NeuroSwarm42
ViBE32
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 21
• FirePhoenix10
• Michael_bg 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 6834
• WagamamaTV485
League of Legends
• Nemesis4708
• Jankos1153
• TFBlade519
Other Games
• Shiphtur234
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
10h 18m
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
15h 18m
RSL Revival
17h 18m
Reynor vs Cure
TBD vs Zoun
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 15h
RSL Revival
1d 17h
Classic vs TBD
Online Event
1d 23h
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.