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I only thought about this in passing before but my girlfriend recently brought it up and it has been nagging at my mind.
Before I progress, a bit of back story. She has a pretty bad case of eczema. Looking through the list here she seems to be affected by multiple kinds as she is very sensitive to certain foods, certain chemicals, various allergies, and stress. Untreated it's bad enough to prevent her from functioning anywhere near normal, unable to even go to work. The condition was somehow dormant when we first started going out but she tells me that she's had it her entire life except the first 2-3 years of college when we first met. Now it's back though and it's been ever present for the last 2-3 years of our relationship. Makes the relationship difficult at times but I still love her and have for nearly 4.5 years now. Still, it's something that I would never wish on anyone. Honestly, I'm not sure I would have gone out with her if she had this when I first met her.
So, the question she posed to me was, knowing that I would like kids at some point in my life, would I be okay knowing that there is an 80% chance a child with her would develop the same condition? It's a bit of a weird question and I know some of you are probably going "wtf why are you talking about kids?" but we're comfortable talking about this kind of stuff. Like I said though, I've been giving this more thought since she mentioned it and the more I think about it the more I run into the brick wall that it really would be terrible to bring a child into the world with that condition but at the same time I can't imagine being with anyone else. Alternatives like adoption and stuff have passed through my mind but those I largely dismissed.
It's a bit awkward of a question to ask but I could really use an outside opinion.
 
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80% chance?
youre deciding the fate of your children... keep that in mind.
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is she okay with aborting? The expected times you'd have to abort untill you get a kid of normal kind is 5 times.
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is awesome32278 Posts
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Why have you dismissed the adoption idea so out of hand? You wont knowingly inflict a potentially crippling illness on a child, and at the same time you'll be giving a child a loving home where s/he might otherwise not have one. Obviously I don't know you or your significant other, but it seems a little hasty to me to ignore that as a viable and even beneficial option.
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Well from reading from your source and from wiki, it doesn't seem like a major problem compared to other diseases. There aren't any cures but you can reduce the inflamation and such. But I'm not sure what to tell you, sorry
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On April 17 2009 13:27 IntoTheWow wrote:
Adoption.
This solves many problems.
+ Show Spoiler +80% is very likely, I wouldn't risk it personally but it's hard to say what I would actually do because I'm not in your situation.
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Genetic screening. It's kind of expensive, but keep in mind this will affect the entire life of your future children.
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On April 17 2009 13:26 evanthebouncy! wrote:
is she okay with aborting? The expected times you'd have to abort untill you get a kid of normal kind is 5 times.
???
uhm..
20% chance of success every time does not mean in 5 times you will produce the desired product.
In fact if its 80% every time, there is a slim chance he will ever have a healthy child without the condition at all.
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On April 17 2009 13:29 il0seonpurpose wrote:
Well from reading from your source and from wiki, it doesn't seem like a major problem compared to other diseases. There aren't any cures but you can reduce the inflamation and such. But I'm not sure what to tell you, sorry
I always thought it wasn't severe as well, and apparently in certain other cases it isn't. Her sister had it but it went away by the time she was 15-16 I believe. My girlfriend's case is apparently far far more severe and will most likely be lifelong as it has persisted past puberty. Consider itching that is bad enough to regularly disrupt sleep and result in open wounds in the morning due to the involuntary scratching. Also, the treatment for the inflammation is steroidal cream which you want to use as sparingly as absolutely possible as it will have adverse long term effects.
As for my dismissal of adoption, it's largely because I'd want the kid to be my kid and inherit parts of my genes. Call it weird but it's important to me. I've got nothing against adoption for other people, I think it's a great thing. But when you value the ongoing persistence of your genes then it stops being as viable an option.
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On April 17 2009 13:26 evanthebouncy! wrote:
is she okay with aborting? The expected times you'd have to abort untill you get a kid of normal kind is 5 times.
That just seems... wrong...
Not to mention somewhat dangerous to the woman, from what I understand.
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On April 17 2009 13:27 IntoTheWow wrote:
Adoption.
I believe this is the proper course of action. It might be very hard, but having children who will almost certainly grow to suffer daily is not good. 
What a terrible situation. I'm so sorry.
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ask ur gf if she would rather have not been born. if her poor quality of life does not justify her existence then she would probably want u to have a baby with a healthy surrogate.
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I think the real question here is If you want to have offspring with this girl.
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if passing on ur genes means so much to you, you probably want to do it with a healthy specimen so forget about "i still love her" and find someone else. no point dragging it on, you already know what you want so go get it.
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On April 17 2009 13:50 gusbear wrote:
ask ur gf if she would rather have not been born. if her poor quality of life does not justify her existence then she would probably want u to have a baby with a healthy surrogate.
Exactly. Treat her as human or treat her as property?
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On April 17 2009 13:42 ._. wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2009 13:26 evanthebouncy! wrote:
is she okay with aborting? The expected times you'd have to abort untill you get a kid of normal kind is 5 times. ??? uhm.. 20% chance of success every time does not mean in 5 times you will produce the desired product. In fact if its 80% every time, there is a slim chance he will ever have a healthy child without the condition at all.
by expected I mean expected value.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometric_distribution
read it 
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I would definately say adoption is a good idea here. There is really no chance to have a child without the condition, and i've a friend that suffers from it, and it seems to be a very unpleasant condition. Dont force a child to suffer from that, especially in early childhood.
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[QUOTE]On April 17 2009 13:45 Phyre wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 17 2009 13:29 il0seonpurpose wrote:
As for my dismissal of adoption, it's largely because I'd want the kid to be my kid and inherit parts of my genes. Call it weird but it's important to me. I've got nothing against adoption for other people, I think it's a great thing. But when you value the ongoing persistence of your genes then it stops being as viable an option. [/QUOTE]
Haha thats funny. You know that humans all share the same genes right? The chances of you having any unique genes that are ONLY unique to your family is ridiculously small. Then you also have to factor in the fact that you may not pass on your unique genes too your children. Your reasoning for not wanting adoption is really not a good one The fact that you value your genes so much that instead of giving a child a loving home just because you want your genes too be passed on makes think that you might have a superiority complex or that you think your special. Trust me, there is probably nothing special or unique about you at all and this is not a bad thing or a good thing, its just the truth.
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Grobyc, I think by adoption they mean adopt ANOTHER kid instead of making a new one 
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life is a gift often underrated, and misconstrued. also one not experienced by the overwhelming majority, we are a lucky few to be alive.
and as terrifyingly depressing as our existence can be, it is only so because of our jaded perspective on happiness.
how horrifying is someone dieing really? not all until you ponder the possibility of loss, the implications of you or anyone else you love not having this precious thing called life anymore.
it is a wonderful gift and made all the better in the hands of loving parents.
adoption is an option as well.
my 2 cents
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Hey Phyre, I have the exact same condition as your girlfriend and mine is pretty severe as well. If there's anything about it that you want to ask about but feel uncomfortable asking your girlfriend you can always ask me.
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I would expect that genetic screening would be more advanced in a few years to the point where it'd be easier to detect this sort of thing. And Etherone makes a very good point there.
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First of all, if you answer no it would be a huge slap in the face to her since you'll basically be saying that it wouldn't be worth it to live with that condition, lol. Still, better adopt instead.
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United States22883 Posts
On April 17 2009 14:10 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2009 14:07 ghermination wrote:
I would definately say adoption is a good idea here. There is really no chance to have a child without the condition, and i've a friend that suffers from it, and it seems to be a very unpleasant condition. Dont force a child to suffer from that, especially in early childhood. How is adoption a good idea then? I believe you just contradicted yourself. + Show Spoiler +I would definately say adoption is a good idea here. i've a friend that suffers from it, and it seems to be a very unpleasant condition. Dont force a child to suffer from that, especially in early childhood. So giving him up for adoption suddenly makes the condition disappear or something?
That is a huge swing and a miss. D: I had to re-read it 4 times to figure out what you were saying.
If Inky were still here, he'd love me, but I think adoption is a good idea. I know there's something about having a kid that looks like you, but people are developed through socialization so they will be yours no matter what. There's also plenty of moral reasons to adopt, such as overpopulation, etc.
Is it really 80%? That's extremely high. :o I've got an auto-immune condition, but I've been told it's not hereditary.
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If 80% for sure, ?
Fuck no, I'd go for adoption. I actually do have this condition now and then and wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy. You'd think it'd be crazy to want to kill yourself over an itch that never goes away as it gets infected for the 86437634890634th time and the best any fucktard without medical knowledge say is don't scratch. (Gee I'm fucking serious, like I can really help it when IM ALREADY FUCKING UNCONCIOUS and involuntarily doing it) but yea it could be really bad. God, even the doctors were fucktards at times. Yea, of course I made it worse, but I was a dumbass little kid after all. It took a while before finding a doctor that wasn't a complete dumbass and let me get through this shit so I can give a giant fuck you those other asshole shits. And it sometimes still comes back to say hello. Hell, I'm fucking putting the oinment on just I was reading this thread lol.
So yea, I'm pretty biased and used a bit of hyperbole but it is quite bad. 
Then again, the treatments are getting far better. They don't even use steroid shit anymore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protopic
(At least, that's what they tell me, if I end up dying from this, at least it won't be itchy :D)
Of course, every drug has its side effects but by the time you may have kids this may not become an issue with advances in medicine. Then again, a child has no choice with these things, and you may not want a child to deal with them.
Good thread, btw. This is an issue that I will have to deal with.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
evanthebouncy you are fucking retarded anyways.
They cannot take a god damn dna test from fetus and determine if it will have this affliction. So aborting the babies would be a fucking dice roll each time and there would be absolutely NO factors that could ever indicate one way or the other except that lil moral voice in the back of your head screaming "YOU ARE A EVIL, SADISTIC LIL TWISTED FUCK WHO IS SO STUPID HE SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO MAKE DECISIONS."
What the fuck is wrong with you?
I mean, I understand people that favor abortion.. but literally offering someone the advice of getting upwards of 5 abortions to avoid a non life threatening disease? What the FUCK?
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On April 17 2009 14:09 crabsman wrote:
Haha thats funny. You know that humans all share the same genes right? The chances of you having any unique genes that are ONLY unique to your family is ridiculously small. Then you also have to factor in the fact that you may not pass on your unique genes too your children. Your reasoning for not wanting adoption is really not a good one The fact that you value your genes so much that instead of giving a child a loving home just because you want your genes too be passed on makes think that you might have a superiority complex or that you think your special. Trust me, there is probably nothing special or unique about you at all and this is not a bad thing or a good thing, its just the truth.
It's called natural selection. If the op passes down his genes, he would be considered successful by Darwinian standards. He also needs to make sure his offspring will get a chance to mate and pass down his genes too, that's why he's concerned about his gf's genetic disease.
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While you have an 80% chance of passing the disease on, if she does pass it on is it guaranteed to be as bad? I had it as a child (and still do a little bit) but I mostly grew out of it.
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Don't let something as silly as Eczema make you not consider children
I know people with Eczema and it's a very annoying disease that makes you itch very often and some rash breakouts but it isn't something as killer as AIDS or even Huntington's Disease.
There's treatments for this stuff although many of the people I know are otherwise completely normal and mainly just scratch themselves more often than other people
Although since your gf seems to have a worse case of Eczema than most, your children most likely will just have to take treatment.
It's definitely not a life-ruiner, not like being born with Down Syndrome and such
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On April 17 2009 14:48 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
evanthebouncy you are fucking retarded anyways.
They cannot take a god damn dna test from fetus and determine if it will have this affliction. So aborting the babies would be a fucking dice roll each time and there would be absolutely NO factors that could ever indicate one way or the other except that lil moral voice in the back of your head screaming "YOU ARE A EVIL, SADISTIC LIL TWISTED FUCK WHO IS SO STUPID HE SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO MAKE DECISIONS."
What the fuck is wrong with you?
I mean, I understand people that favor abortion.. but literally offering someone the advice of getting upwards of 5 abortions to avoid a non life threatening disease? What the FUCK?
Calm down, i am sure he was being sarcastic. or he is very uninformed as to the risks of an abortion, and is a sociopath.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I know.
I just have this scary feeling that he is the latter as oppose to the former.
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On April 17 2009 14:48 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
evanthebouncy you are fucking retarded anyways.
They cannot take a god damn dna test from fetus and determine if it will have this affliction. So aborting the babies would be a fucking dice roll each time and there would be absolutely NO factors that could ever indicate one way or the other except that lil moral voice in the back of your head screaming "YOU ARE A EVIL, SADISTIC LIL TWISTED FUCK WHO IS SO STUPID HE SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO MAKE DECISIONS."
What the fuck is wrong with you?
I mean, I understand people that favor abortion.. but literally offering someone the advice of getting upwards of 5 abortions to avoid a non life threatening disease? What the FUCK?
If its hereditary, wouldn't a genetic screen tell you exactly that? "Oh hey here is the genetic mutation, its got it"
not including environmental factors / silencing etc.
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Google says no:
To get the disease, both of your copies of the gene need to be the disease version (remember, we have two copies of most of our genes—one from mom and one from dad). When more than one gene is involved, the situation gets much more complicated pretty quickly.
You now need to get the disease version of many genes from both parents. And they are not always the same genes—different gene combinations can lead to the same disease, eczema. This is one of the reasons a genetic test for eczema isn't coming out anytime soon.
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On April 17 2009 14:00 Wuewdoodoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2009 13:50 gusbear wrote:
ask ur gf if she would rather have not been born. if her poor quality of life does not justify her existence then she would probably want u to have a baby with a healthy surrogate. Exactly. Treat her as human or treat her as property?
Gonna have to agree here. Ask her if she would have preferred not to have been born or if she would have preferred that her parents were not her biological parents.
I think if you are worried what conditions your child would have, these are the questions to ask. Don't try to become a eugenicist because people don't understand it well enough to do more good than harm, in my opinion. A condition like this is but one aspect of your gf's genes. I'm sure she probably has other qualities that offset it, even if you are not aware of them. She may even have better qualities than normal. It is a difficult question, so you should just think consider the question I quoted.
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arent there procedures where a doctor can get a bunch of eggs from ur gf and determine which eggs are fine and then do some kind of invitro fertilization
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Passing on genetic diseases is stupid imo. Medical technology allows a lot of people to live and function that normally would die before 5, that is great.
But seriously willingly having a sick child is just wrong. Passing on defect genes if you so like.
There are way too many people on the planet as it is, adoption is a great alternative in general for enviromental reasons but when you as an extra _can't even have a healthy child of your own_ then it becomes the only choice imo.
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EPT
