If you are not interested by me babbling about my video game experiences with my terrible english you can skip the text following until "Questions":
I love old games. That's probably the main reason why i don't even bother to buy a comp ( also i'm a cheap bastard :p ). I love "classic" games. Even if i play them years after their release, i still enjoy it and i acknowledge that they deserve their true classic status.
So i have just completed Torment lately and although there are many things that weren't that great about this game ( gameplay / difficulty / bugs / me having a somewhat bad english ), i have to admit this was a really good game, almost like a book. True art. Lot of emotions.
( I know Deionarra's theme might be better but ... )
Same thing happened to me when i played moto racer 1 and diablo 1 like 8 years or so after their release. OK don't flame me because i make a comparison with Torment, but although they are different kind of games i enjoyed playing it a LOT. I mean i had a lot of prejudice about diablo ( " Lol stupid hack'n slash" ) but i felt that the ambiance was really good. The Tritram theme is just one of the best song in video games. This is so great: This song alone makes diablo 1 worth playing. Now i despise D2 and his horrible monster/level design and poor atmosphere. Same for moto racer 1. Although i have a very limited experience of cars/bikes games it is probably the funniest i have ever played ( with mario kart Snes ofc ). It is so arcade-oriented and fast paced that even many years after its realease i liked it
I used to do like 90% of this track on wheeling lol
So enough of babbling about the forever awesomeness of old games even when they age. I just want to play more classic games and i have some questions.
Questions: - Which good Deus Ex 1 mods should i play ? ( I'm mostly interested by scenario/dialogs/difficulty/ so i don't really care of a mod about new coold weapon and stuff like that... ).
- Should i play System Shock 1 before System Shock 2 ? ( System Shock 1 gfx might be really too bad fo my eyes even if usually i don't complain about gfx and i'm not a difficult guy )
- Same question with Thief 1/2/3
- Someone know where i can find Civilisation 2 fantastic world ( map / mod pack ) for free ? ( i have already civ 2 ).
List of cult classics i need to complete: Arcanum ( i have played it a bit but i don't have the game anymore ) Fallout 1 / 2 ( same ) Kotor ? ( many people name this game in the good games threads ) Jagged alliance ? ( My dear 0xdeadbeef always talk about this game ) It looks a bit like commando ( i enjoyed it a lot ) so i might try it when i will have some free time. - Vampires but i will need a new comp. - Master of Orion - Maybe Icewind Dale 2 even if it is not that good, it can be somewhat challenging.
Any other idea ? ( No games after 2001 because my comp can't run them ^_^ ) So no NwN, Bioshock, Half life 2 and so on . When i will have played all those games ( or if Dx3 is good which i doubt ) i might buy a new comp and try the newer stuff :p
List of "classic" or decent old games i have completed or at least already played a lot so don't name them again ;D + Show Spoiler +
- half life / CS - Unreal 99 ( i should try Unreal 1 i guess ) - Soldier of Fortune - Duke nuken - Q3 ( but i prefered UT anyway ). - Halo - Doom ( dunno which versions ) - AvP
- Rune - Giants - GTA 1 and 3 - Operation Flashpoint - Project IGI - Dx - Max Payne 2 ( although i played the 1 a bit ).
- BG1/2 - Torment - Icewind Dale 1 - Nethack ( but too hardcore for me lol ) - D1 / D2 - Commando
- War2/3 - Dungeon Keeper 1/2 - Command and Conquer / Red alert / Tiberium Sun - AOE 1-2 - Civ 2/3 ( and 4 but not on my comp lol ) - HOMM 3 - Settlers 2/3 - Dwarf fortress - Battle for Wesnoth
Super old and anyway i don't want to play this kind of super old games because i would cry ( nostalgia factor ) and because i'm > 20 now - Some of the Commander Keens ( 1/4/5 if i remember. So oldschool ) - Raptor ( oldschool again ) - Rayman 1 ( and 2 but it sucks ) - Some of the old Disney platform games. - Most of the Snes classics ( Chrono trigger / SF2 / mario kart / gradius etc ... ) anyway i'm talking about computer games.
+ some more that i forget but are probably not as good or less known. I know i should play a lot of really good "click and point" adventure games by Lucas Art but that's just not my kind of games. I prefer RPG with great plot / FPS with a lot of action / RTS but after bw everything is boring except turn based games / Race games ( for fun ).
On March 09 2009 02:28 micronesia wrote: You and I have different definitions of old school.. I think. You are gonna make some of us feel very old haha.
Actually i lurk/ post on another forum with lot of 30 years old guys who are always talking about Amiga games ^_^
For me, in my own "frame of reference" somewhat oldschool is < 2000 Super oldschool < 95
I know for some people oldschool is < 1990 but i'm just 21 years old so ... :D
System Shock 1 is not at all required to enjoy SS2, and I don't think you're missing out on a ton if you skip it totally. Its cool but the second one aged much better.
I think the thief games can be played independently of each other pretty easily but its been many years since I played one so take that with a grain of salt
Get your hands on Arcanum again. What a great game. So nice to go back to a game that has such excellent dialogue/character customisation. It's a bit of a sin you haven't completed it yet seeing as you enjoy your crpgs alot . Same with fallout 1/2 , brilliant games and because you haven't played it a billion times like me, you should fall in love
On March 09 2009 02:28 micronesia wrote: You and I have different definitions of old school.. I think. You are gonna make some of us feel very old haha.
If I say pong, will it make you feel young? Old school to me is NES and SNES games tho.... Mario, DK Country, Zelda, and the like are all must plays. Although I guess this guy is looking for PC games... In which case... I only remember Diablo 1, Duke Nuke'em, and Doom ever being fun. And even then, you have to play those on a LAN for any value.
did you play any quests? you have any idea about Goblins 1/2/3, Kyrandia series( OMG SOOO GOOD ITS A MUST PLAY), Neverhood etc? those games were fucking amazing. Alone in the dark 1/2/3? Ever played Magic Carpet? LOL what about Flashback( pretty oldschool)? Did u play Dune( not Dune 2)? Also Stunts was insane racing game. Turn based strategies were ownage, Panzer General, Civilization obviously. And that one game was a mix of RT and turn based, was like nothign i played before, called M.A.X. Also Z was hilarious RTS DAMN i played almost every notable game that came out before 1999-2000
Everytime i remember about Duke Nukem 3D i want to play it again. I dont remember many games but i guess you can play the snes version of super metroid and others. I enjoyed oldschool games like "twinsen's oddysey" and "indiana jones and the fate of atlatis". The rest are on your list.
SS2 is better, doesnt require SS1 to be enjoyed, and simply getting SS1 to RUN on a modern computer is a fucking hassle because of how godawful old it is.
On March 09 2009 02:54 food wrote: did you play any quests? you have any idea about Goblins 1/2/3, Kyrandia series( OMG SOOO GOOD ITS A MUST PLAY), Neverhood etc? those games were fucking amazing. Alone in the dark 1/2/3? Ever played Magic Carpet? LOL what about Flashback( pretty oldschool)? Did u play Dune( not Dune 2)? Also Stunts was insane racing game. Turn based strategies were ownage, Panzer General, Civilization obviously. And that one game was a mix of RT and turn based, was like nothign i played before, called M.A.X. Also Z was hilarious RTS DAMN i played almost every notable game that came out before 1999-2000
i second the kyrandia. and dune. and civ. oh man those were fun
what about colonization? i heard a remake for it with civ4 engine came out recently, i should give it a shot. colonization was pretty fun too.
I can add some of my personal favourites / comments
* XCom (UFO) -- I consider this to be the best single player strategy game ever created. It's quite simple to get into, but rather hard to master It also gives you a lot of choice -- I can't count how many times I have finished it, but each time I have done something differently.
* Betrayal at Krondor -- my favourite CRPG. Has a unique presentation style, where dialogue and narrations are written much like passages from a book. The writing itself is very good, the music is good, and together that gives the game that cosy ambience which modern games just lack.
* Star Control 2 -- the amount of witty sarcastic humour in this one is just astounding. While at times it is hard to figure out what to do next, just flying around exploring and talking to all those funny weird aliens is very enjoyable.
* Transport Tycoon -- also a simple, yet somehow very captivating game where you manage a transport company. There is a number of towns and industries scattered all over the map that require certain resources, sources of which are also scattered. Your task is to transport resources to fuel these industries, be it by road, railroad, sea or air.
* Settlers II -- a medieval town-building game where you must establish sometimes long chains of production (a farmer grows grain, a miller mills the grain producing flour, a baker uses flour and water to bake bread, bread is used to feed soldiers etc.), which is quite fun.
* Majesty -- also a medieval town building game where you have no direct control over units, but rather must provide an infrastructure for freelance "heroes" that will hunt monsters for you. You put up a bounty for a certain monster, the heroes try to kill it to get the money, if they succed they go to spend the money in your town, etc. The lack of direct control produces a very unique/fun experince
As for Jagged Alliance, I don't know. I know many people who consider it to be one of the best games ever made, but for me it just lacked something. I found the battles to be very annoying and repetitive, mostly because you have to kill a huge number of enemies with a limited number of mercenaries that you cannot really afford to lose, and the mercenaries are not significantly better than the enemies with respect to durability, shooting, etc. and eventually it just boils down to AI abuse, such as luring enemies around the corner one by one and shooting them at point blank range to get a certain kill.
Master of Orion 1 is great but gets repetitive fast once you figure out the optimal strategy. Master of Orion 2 is somewhat better, but micromanagement of a growing number of colonies can get frustrating (similar to civilization).
System Shock 2 is absolutely great and playing SS1 to get into it is not required. Actually, I didn't even like SS1 that much, but SS2 is outstanding.
On March 09 2009 02:22 Boblion wrote: So i have just completed Torment lately and although there are many things that weren't that great about this game ( gameplay / difficulty / bugs / me having a somewhat bad english ), i have to admit this was a really good game, almost like a book. True art. Lot of emotions.
Get the High-res mod, Qwinn's Fixpack, and Unfinished Business. Qwinn's fixes a ton of the bugs, and UB restores some of the quests that never made it into the finished game. DEFINTELY worth a replay.
On March 09 2009 02:22 Boblion wrote: - Which good Deus Ex 1 mods should i play ? ( I'm mostly interested by scenario/dialogs/difficulty/ so i don't really care of a mod about new coold weapon and stuff like that... ).
Play the game vanilla first. Play with mods the second time through, IMO.
On March 09 2009 02:22 Boblion wrote: - Should i play System Shock 1 before System Shock 2 ? ( System Shock 1 gfx might be really too bad fo my eyes even if usually i don't complain about gfx and i'm not a difficult guy )
System Shock 1 is not necessary to play System Shock 2 to a complete experience.
On March 09 2009 02:22 Boblion wrote: List of cult classics i need to complete: Arcanum ( i have played it a bit but i don't have the game anymore ) Fallout 1 / 2 ( same ) Kotor ? ( many people name this game in the good games threads ) Jagged alliance ? ( My dear 0xdeadbeef always talk about this game ) It looks a bit like commando ( i enjoyed it a lot ) so i might try it when i will have some free time. - Vampires but i will need a new comp. - Master of Orion - Maybe Icewind Dale 2 even if it is not that good, it can be somewhat challenging.
Don't play KotOR I fresh off of Planescape. The characters/atmosphere will feel so one-dimensional when compared to Planescape: Torment that it will feel like a total let-down. In fact, I would argue that if you've had a lot of experience with old school CRPGs, KotOR I might be a disappointment. The characters aren't terribly deep, the plot is classic Star Wars (meaning its not overly deep, despite having its twists) and good/evil is a pretty binary affair (e.g. in any given situation, the good/evil choice is blantantly obvious, unlike in Planescape, which does a better job of filling in the shades of gray). Also, its more demanding of your system than NwN, so if you can't run NWN, you won't be able to run KotOR.
Baldur's Gate + Baldur's Gate II are definitely worth playing. Its sort of the happy medium between Icewind Dale and Planescape Torment. Strong, but not phenomenal story, and interesting, but not difficult combat (unless you use AI mods, which make enemy casters insanely good at using spells), and the best damn NPC interaction of any game thats not Planescape: Torment (which simply can't be matched in that department).
Icewind Dale II is good, but I like the original better. Icewind Dale II has a hard time staying true to 3E rules, because its running an engine that was very much designed for use with DnD 2E.
About Torment: Grats on completing Torment Didn't assume you'd finish it. That reminds me of trying out Dwarf Fortress... *g* Yeah, Torment is like an interactive book - that's why no other game can compare to its depth of story and characters, plus it has a great atmosphere/setting. It's no game, it's an experience.
System Shock series: System Shock 1 was amazing back then, but I agree with the posters above that you can skip it, unless you'd really like to play it. The problem is that SS1 is one of those games where the graphics and controls and everything don't stay "timeless" (like e.g. Baldur's Gate series) but instead seem to become worse with each passing year. It's a complete pixel mess. You could argue that the controls are (still!) somewhat innovative with all the different screen modes and all the things you can do with the interface, but seriously, overall this game has really bad controls, even compared to games from the late '90s. And the graphics will make you puke. Strong points of SS1 are though: - Lots of weapons/ammo and thus various styles of playing the game - High difficulty - Fun things (text/audio logs, SHODAN's insults, sometimes cool level design/ideas (the big laser pointed at ... ) - SHODAN is really hostile and dangerous (in SS2 it seems much "friendlier", probably mostly because it's not really your enemy for part of the game... (not spoiling anything now)) - Cyberspace! ;D A bit ridiculous, but also fun because the game consists of essentially 2 parts. Having to fight SHODAN there makes more sense than the ending in SS2... - You get to see the beginning of the series. Always worth something...
SS2 is definitely a must-play, outstanding game with amazing atmosphere. SS1... well, it's a good game nonetheless, but you really have to be quite a bit hardcore/old to still enjoy playing it. I just wanted to list some cool things about it, so you get a better picture.
Thief series: Definitely play 1, then 2, then 3. But I think you won't be able to play 3 at all (it's from 2004 and has quite decent graphics). I don't really like part 3 much, but it has one ***INCREDIBLY*** awesome level called Shalebridge Cradle... which is one of the most atmospheric and creepiest level I've ever played in any game. This mission alone is reason to play it. Besides it's not bad at all, I just prefer 1 and 2.
Thief 1 is the best IMHO. Absolutely make sure you get the Gold version (called "Thief Gold"), it has new graphics and new missions(!). It has supernatural levels (zombies etc.) which can be scary, and traditional thieving missions - all in a very good mix. You definitely need the Gold version (it should contain the latest patch already), and I also recommend the "Ultimate Difficulty v1.3" mod. Without that mod, the game is simply too easy.
Thief 2 is a *huge* game with tons of *huge* missions (expect to sit like 4 or more hours on most missions if you play without solutions/cheats/shortcuts/cheesing etc., and there are 15 in total!). Sometimes the level design is a bit crazy or over-the-top, e.g. the last mission which I didn't like at all. You have even more items to use than in Thief 1 (I had real problems binding and using all those keys!). There's less focus on supernatural things, but there are robots/androids and stuff which is also a bit out of place, but no biggie. Other than that, it shares the same greats that Thief 1 has. Making Thief 2 playable for today is a bit more complicated. First, there are several versions of the game, you should make sure that you get the one where the file readme.wri says: Released in August 17th 2000, v1.0a The game should already be patched to v1.18 (newest). And then if you want to play fan missions you need to make sure another file is the right version (see the fan mission FAQ @ TTLG). I've read that one version of Thief 2 is so broken that you need to replace these files. And then, if you have a somewhat recent Nvidia card, you need to install DDFix (otherwise all dark areas in the game will look very greenish). And also get the Ultimate Difficulty mod here.
Thief 3: if you can play it, then do so. Get patch 1.1, and also the Collective Hi-Res Texture Pack (by John P.) but then your PC probably dies.
If you have a multi-core CPU then both Thief 1 + 2 might crash seconds after starting the game. If that happens, you need to run the game on one core only (in Windows: task manager -> right click on process -> set affinity or something). All Thief games have in common: great replayability, timelessness. There's still a big community around these games and they have made some really great fan missions.
Thanks for all the advices I think my next games will be SS2, Arcanum or Thief ( 1 ? 2 ? 3 ? i don't know ) I have to check some of the olders game you guys named
On March 09 2009 04:13 TheYango wrote: Play the game vanilla first. Play with mods the second time through, IMO.
I have completed it in "realistic" mode without too much problems
On March 09 2009 04:13 TheYango wrote: Baldur's Gate + Baldur's Gate II are definitely worth playing. Its sort of the happy medium between Icewind Dale and Planescape Torment. Strong, but not phenomenal story, and interesting, but not difficult combat (unless you use AI mods, which make enemy casters insanely good at using spells), and the best damn NPC interaction of any game thats not Planescape: Torment (which simply can't be matched in that department).
BG1 is my favourite game and i know almost everything about this game. I have solo-ed it two times. I'm currently doing BG2 with tactics Mod I'm really bored of the storyline and only play it for challenges nowadays ( i only play a bit tactics when i have nothing better to do ).
On March 09 2009 04:25 Boblion wrote: Thanks for all the advices I think my next games will be SS2, Arcanum or Thief ( 1 ? 2 ? 3 ? i don't know ) I have to check some of the olders game you guys named
Arcanum is a game that very much has to be played for the atmosphere, and the "roleplaying". If you play a character focused on combat, or on the nuances of the character system (like a technologist or a mage) it will be good, but not memorable. I found the game much more satisfying the second time though, when I played a diplomat that stuck mostly to utility spells.
Also, Sword Coast Stratagems > Tactics.
Tactics is harder, but to the point of it being blatantly obvious that the computer is cheating you. Sword Coast Stratagems sticks mostly to AI mods. The times that it breaks the rules is when its trying to stick closer to traditional DnD 2E rules (e.g. Beholders piercing spell protections).
On March 09 2009 02:22 Boblion wrote: So i have just completed Torment lately and although there are many things that weren't that great about this game ( gameplay / difficulty / bugs / me having a somewhat bad english ), i have to admit this was a really good game, almost like a book. True art. Lot of emotions.
Get the High-res mod, Qwinn's Fixpack, and Unfinished Business. Qwinn's fixes a ton of the bugs, and UB restores some of the quests that never made it into the finished game. DEFINTELY worth a replay.
I think i had some fix packs ( but maybe not the last ? ) So there were still few little bugs ( Moridor's box, Npcs couldn't talk sometimes and i have to save/load ) Also i couldn't get an armor class -10 < and there was some issues with Thaco and +hp/level
Btw i'm a bit ashamed to say that i used some guides to finish torment. I was a bit in a lazy/power gamer ( started playing after tactics lol ) mood + my lack of english understanding so sometimes i didn't want to miss the best answers in the dialogs Still a great game though. But sometimes i think it could have been way better if it is was harder and the gameplay more interesting ( it is a bit shallow if you are an experienced BG1/2 player ). The game seemed quite easy even on hard settings. But anyway i think it is more like a book
The High-res mod really looks cool ( that was also one of my problem with this game 640x480 kinda sucks :< )
On March 09 2009 04:39 Boblion wrote: I think i had some fix packs ( but maybe not the last ? ) So there were still few little bugs ( Moridor's box, Npcs couldn't talk sometimes and i have to save/load ) Also i couldn't get an armor class -10 < and there was some issues with Thaco and +hp/level
Yeah, IIRC the last iteration of the fixpack (something like a month or two ago) addresses both thac0 and hp/level issues (specifically, how they interact with class changes--gaining a few fighter levels for thac0 then using mage for their better gear to make you a better fighter than a pure fighter is stupid good).
I'll second 0xDEADBEEF's recommendation of Dwarf Fortress. Its truly epic.
Arcanum is also on my "to play" list... and that list is too big :/
@Boblion: after you've played Torment, I'd suggest starting with SS2 (maybe SS1 first) for something completely different. After that, start with the Thief series (in sequence).
But honestly, I really think that if you haven't played SS1 when it came out in 1994 (at least the demo or something), then you will really think it sucks if you try it now... I think the only reason why I played through it again in 2006 is nostalgia.
@TheYango: Bob recommended me that game, and I still haven't started it. But, again, I have too many games I have yet to play... so it can take a while. I'm following the order I wrote them down. *g*
EPT
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. Same with fallout 1/2 , brilliant games and because you haven't played it a billion times like me, you should fall in love 
