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When were their base skills ever up to par?
You could think that physics is just common sense and the math is pie, but for some reason a lot of people do not really understand what they do when they learn math but instead just repeats formulas and how to apply them to the simplest of expressions and thus when they get to physics which is in general just applied math they do not get that the math they learned (And now often have forgotten) actually could be applied to a real life problem.
Like how a time derivate for position is velocity or the gradient of a potential is the force field. Most math is built on physics and therefore most physics follows the laws of math, especially calculus, but for some reason it is magic to them when you can actually apply the math to some simple physical phenomenons.
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United States24788 Posts
On October 31 2008 02:16 Klockan3 wrote:
When were their base skills ever up to par?
You could think that physics is just common sense and the math is pie, but for some reason a lot of people do not really understand what they do when they learn math but instead just repeats formulas and how to apply them to the simplest of expressions and thus when they get to physics which is in general just applied math they do not get that the math they learned (And now often have forgotten) actually could be applied to a real life problem.
Like how a time derivate for position is velocity or the gradient of a potential is the force field. Most math is built on physics and therefore most physics follows the laws of math, especially calculus, but for some reason it is magic to them when you can actually apply the math to some simple physical phenomenons.
This is a major problem with the USA's current assessment-bases system.
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On October 31 2008 03:18 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2008 02:16 Klockan3 wrote:
When were their base skills ever up to par?
You could think that physics is just common sense and the math is pie, but for some reason a lot of people do not really understand what they do when they learn math but instead just repeats formulas and how to apply them to the simplest of expressions and thus when they get to physics which is in general just applied math they do not get that the math they learned (And now often have forgotten) actually could be applied to a real life problem.
Like how a time derivate for position is velocity or the gradient of a potential is the force field. Most math is built on physics and therefore most physics follows the laws of math, especially calculus, but for some reason it is magic to them when you can actually apply the math to some simple physical phenomenons. This is a major problem with the USA's current assessment-bases system.
Well, it is really hard to get an objective system which checks something as abstract as basic physical intuition. Usually people prefer an objective scale to a subjective one even if the objective scale records more or less useless knowledge.
But meh, I hardly even needed to open my physics books during high school or my first years of college so I can not really have an opinion on how to run these things. Though I really believe that others could do the same thing as long as they focused on understanding and improving their intuitions instead of just learning formulas as if they were simple glossaries made to be etched to your skull.
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United States24788 Posts
On October 31 2008 03:46 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2008 03:18 micronesia wrote:On October 31 2008 02:16 Klockan3 wrote:
When were their base skills ever up to par?
You could think that physics is just common sense and the math is pie, but for some reason a lot of people do not really understand what they do when they learn math but instead just repeats formulas and how to apply them to the simplest of expressions and thus when they get to physics which is in general just applied math they do not get that the math they learned (And now often have forgotten) actually could be applied to a real life problem.
Like how a time derivate for position is velocity or the gradient of a potential is the force field. Most math is built on physics and therefore most physics follows the laws of math, especially calculus, but for some reason it is magic to them when you can actually apply the math to some simple physical phenomenons. This is a major problem with the USA's current assessment-bases system. Well, it is really hard to get an objective system which checks something as abstract as basic physical intuition. Usually people prefer an objective scale to a subjective one even if the objective scale records more or less useless knowledge. But meh, I hardly even needed to open my physics books during high school or my first years of college so I can not really have an opinion on how to run these things. Though I really believe that others could do the same thing as long as they focused on understanding and improving their intuitions instead of just learning formulas as if they were simple glossaries made to be etched to your skull.
Would you be willing to clone yourself and transfer into my school? XD
Today I had a student at extra help who was having trouble with a physics problem. I asked her to read the problem step by step, and list the givens as they came up (i.e. when it says 'starting from rest' it means Vi or Vo = 0) and she got up to the statement 'accelerated at 5.0 m/s^2' and I asked her what the given was and she couldn't get it. I asked it several different ways, gave her time to think, and this was review, and she still seemed to have no idea. Nice student, but just no capability there and it drives me crazy that I'm expected to make them pass ._.
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Grade school vs college is kind of interesting. When I was in grade school, I hated it, because my grades were based on assignments, not knowlege. I just hated spending so much time doing homework. Also, we would stay on the same topic for so long that you actually forgot the stuff from 3 weeks ago by the time you got to the test because it was so repeditive.
College was much easier for me because it was what we had to learn was strait-forward. Read the syllabus, do the listed problems, take the test.
If I had to teach high school, my optimum approach would be this: There would be two ways to do well in the class. One would be primarily through homework and some tests (standard method), the other way would be primarily through tests (college method).
If students did well on their first test, they would have the option of getting less homework graded, but having the tests more heavily weighted. If students didn't do well on the test, then they would have to do all the standard homework. Or, if they did well but didn't like heavily weighted tests, they could to homework as well.
Students who opted to do less homework would have fewer but more difficult problems.
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On October 31 2008 02:16 Klockan3 wrote:
Like how a time derivate for position is velocity or the gradient of a potential is the force field. Most math is built on physics and therefore most physics follows the laws of math, especially calculus, but for some reason it is magic to them when you can actually apply the math to some simple physical phenomenons.
I think the problem is that physics isn't taught with math. None of my "calculus based" freshman physics classes had calculus in them. imo it actually makes it harder without the calc.
I think the first real physics class I took that had calc in it was classical mechanics. That particular class was hard because it was dealing with more than just constant acceleration, etc. But if it was just taught that way from the start I think it would be better all around.
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On October 31 2008 11:37 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2008 03:46 Klockan3 wrote:On October 31 2008 03:18 micronesia wrote:On October 31 2008 02:16 Klockan3 wrote:
When were their base skills ever up to par?
You could think that physics is just common sense and the math is pie, but for some reason a lot of people do not really understand what they do when they learn math but instead just repeats formulas and how to apply them to the simplest of expressions and thus when they get to physics which is in general just applied math they do not get that the math they learned (And now often have forgotten) actually could be applied to a real life problem.
Like how a time derivate for position is velocity or the gradient of a potential is the force field. Most math is built on physics and therefore most physics follows the laws of math, especially calculus, but for some reason it is magic to them when you can actually apply the math to some simple physical phenomenons. This is a major problem with the USA's current assessment-bases system. Well, it is really hard to get an objective system which checks something as abstract as basic physical intuition. Usually people prefer an objective scale to a subjective one even if the objective scale records more or less useless knowledge. But meh, I hardly even needed to open my physics books during high school or my first years of college so I can not really have an opinion on how to run these things. Though I really believe that others could do the same thing as long as they focused on understanding and improving their intuitions instead of just learning formulas as if they were simple glossaries made to be etched to your skull. Would you be willing to clone yourself and transfer into my school? XD Today I had a student at extra help who was having trouble with a physics problem. I asked her to read the problem step by step, and list the givens as they came up (i.e. when it says 'starting from rest' it means Vi or Vo = 0) and she got up to the statement 'accelerated at 5.0 m/s^2' and I asked her what the given was and she couldn't get it. I asked it several different ways, gave her time to think, and this was review, and she still seemed to have no idea. Nice student, but just no capability there and it drives me crazy that I'm expected to make them pass ._.
Hmm, I guess that is what makes teachers give up trying to teach understanding and instead just gives them formulas. Did you try to explain the word "Acceleration" to her? And that m/s^2 should be read as (m/s)/s? Then you just have to take the double time integral of acceleration and you get the position/time curve, but doing the integral would probably scare her even though thats the first definition of an integral :p
On October 31 2008 15:33 fight_or_flight wrote:
If I had to teach high school, my optimum approach would be this: There would be two ways to do well in the class. One would be primarily through homework and some tests (standard method), the other way would be primarily through tests (college method).
Well thats one thing, I do not really understand why high school in the US have so much graded homework for the hard sciences. When I were in our high school we had several small tests and one big one for each course of math/physics but no grade based homework at all, that means that you do not need to work more than until you understand instead of forcing everyone to work until their fingers bleed.
But of course for the "lesser" students graded homework is a good idea since it forces them to study and makes it easier to pass them, but its still a dumb idea overall imo, unless it is just an optional way to pass.
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United States24788 Posts
On October 31 2008 17:05 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2008 11:37 micronesia wrote:On October 31 2008 03:46 Klockan3 wrote:On October 31 2008 03:18 micronesia wrote:On October 31 2008 02:16 Klockan3 wrote:
When were their base skills ever up to par?
You could think that physics is just common sense and the math is pie, but for some reason a lot of people do not really understand what they do when they learn math but instead just repeats formulas and how to apply them to the simplest of expressions and thus when they get to physics which is in general just applied math they do not get that the math they learned (And now often have forgotten) actually could be applied to a real life problem.
Like how a time derivate for position is velocity or the gradient of a potential is the force field. Most math is built on physics and therefore most physics follows the laws of math, especially calculus, but for some reason it is magic to them when you can actually apply the math to some simple physical phenomenons. This is a major problem with the USA's current assessment-bases system. Well, it is really hard to get an objective system which checks something as abstract as basic physical intuition. Usually people prefer an objective scale to a subjective one even if the objective scale records more or less useless knowledge. But meh, I hardly even needed to open my physics books during high school or my first years of college so I can not really have an opinion on how to run these things. Though I really believe that others could do the same thing as long as they focused on understanding and improving their intuitions instead of just learning formulas as if they were simple glossaries made to be etched to your skull. Would you be willing to clone yourself and transfer into my school? XD Today I had a student at extra help who was having trouble with a physics problem. I asked her to read the problem step by step, and list the givens as they came up (i.e. when it says 'starting from rest' it means Vi or Vo = 0) and she got up to the statement 'accelerated at 5.0 m/s^2' and I asked her what the given was and she couldn't get it. I asked it several different ways, gave her time to think, and this was review, and she still seemed to have no idea. Nice student, but just no capability there and it drives me crazy that I'm expected to make them pass ._. Hmm, I guess that is what makes teachers give up trying to teach understanding and instead just gives them formulas. Did you try to explain the word "Acceleration" to her? And that m/s^2 should be read as (m/s)/s? Then you just have to take the double time integral of acceleration and you get the position/time curve, but doing the integral would probably scare her even though thats the first definition of an integral :p
That is not exactly why teachers jump right to formulas and answers, but I suppose it does have some input. Explaining the word acceleration to her wouldn't avoid the problem that she was actually having (since this was review and we had been doing acceleration for like weeks already). The fact that it should be read as (m/s)/s is beyond what she is most likely going to ever understand about physics without lots of private tutoring etc.
If I mentioned the word integral my boss would have a heart attack lol
Show nested quote +On October 31 2008 15:33 fight_or_flight wrote:
If I had to teach high school, my optimum approach would be this: There would be two ways to do well in the class. One would be primarily through homework and some tests (standard method), the other way would be primarily through tests (college method).
Well thats one thing, I do not really understand why high school in the US have so much graded homework for the hard sciences. When I were in our high school we had several small tests and one big one for each course of math/physics but no grade based homework at all, that means that you do not need to work more than until you understand instead of forcing everyone to work until their fingers bleed. But of course for the "lesser" students graded homework is a good idea since it forces them to study and makes it easier to pass them, but its still a dumb idea overall imo, unless it is just an optional way to pass.
When I was a student I was happy to have less hw and more heavily weighted tests... and I thought that's how it should be. What I've realized is that (at least for physics) the weaker students REQUIRE the homework in order to succeed... they will do poorly on tests if they don't have ample opportunity to try what they have learned (even though you or I would be content with a lecture and a few minutes to try it out quickly).
Regarding differentiating according to college vs grade-school style... this has been an issue I've thought about for a while. If a student is exceptional, they sometimes skip a grade. If exceptional students are allowed to bypass a year of work, why can't a student who does not skip a grade skip a smaller chunk of the workload if they can still perform on the exams? This is a no-in situation for teachers though because they can't force some kids to do more work than others (students/parents wouldn't understand and are always looking for things to complain about anyway).
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17070 Posts
Have you tried explaining acceleration by parameterizing it with time? Like, don't explicitly tell her that's what you're doing, but maybe explaining it by saying something like "let's take a look at how the velocity changes as time changes" or something.
But yeah, I see your difficulties. 
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Calgary26003 Posts
My favourite projectile motion project was rolling a marble down a ramp onto carbon paper. We measured all the axial distances from the end of the slide as well as the height at the point of release and point of loss of contact with the slide. We did the theoretical calculations and found reasons why our marble didn't hit where it theoretically should have. We also did error analysis because each trial had multiple runs. Was fun!
My least favourite project in physics was Milikens fucking oil drop. Find the charge of an electron or something. God, you hit space bar to launch a fucking oil drop and then hope it has the right charge and use up-and-down on a program to change the plate charge until the drop stops moving. Fuck that experiment.
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On October 31 2008 21:50 micronesia wrote:
If I mentioned the word integral my boss would have a heart attack lol
Then for what damn reason are they learning about integrals in the math courses?
Show nested quote +On October 31 2008 15:33 fight_or_flight wrote:
If I had to teach high school, my optimum approach would be this: There would be two ways to do well in the class. One would be primarily through homework and some tests (standard method), the other way would be primarily through tests (college method).
Well thats one thing, I do not really understand why high school in the US have so much graded homework for the hard sciences. When I were in our high school we had several small tests and one big one for each course of math/physics but no grade based homework at all, that means that you do not need to work more than until you understand instead of forcing everyone to work until their fingers bleed. But of course for the "lesser" students graded homework is a good idea since it forces them to study and makes it easier to pass them, but its still a dumb idea overall imo, unless it is just an optional way to pass. When I was a student I was happy to have less hw and more heavily weighted tests... and I thought that's how it should be. What I've realized is that (at least for physics) the weaker students REQUIRE the homework in order to succeed... they will do poorly on tests if they don't have ample opportunity to try what they have learned (even though you or I would be content with a lecture and a few minutes to try it out quickly). Regarding differentiating according to college vs grade-school style... this has been an issue I've thought about for a while. If a student is exceptional, they sometimes skip a grade. If exceptional students are allowed to bypass a year of work, why can't a student who does not skip a grade skip a smaller chunk of the workload if they can still perform on the exams? This is a no-in situation for teachers though because they can't force some kids to do more work than others (students/parents wouldn't understand and are always looking for things to complain about anyway).
Our teacher once had a test on which every question you failed you got extra homework for, thats easy to understand and none could say that its unfair.
On November 01 2008 00:13 Chill wrote:
My least favourite project in physics was Milikens fucking oil drop. Find the charge of an electron or something. God, you hit space bar to launch a fucking oil drop and then hope it has the right charge and use up-and-down on a program to change the plate charge until the drop stops moving. Fuck that experiment.
You know, compared to real research experiments the boringness of that experiment is negligible. Especially since that experiment actually works and through it you can calculate one of the universal constants.
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On October 31 2008 15:33 fight_or_flight wrote:
Grade school vs college is kind of interesting. When I was in grade school, I hated it, because my grades were based on assignments, not knowlege. I just hated spending so much time doing homework. Also, we would stay on the same topic for so long that you actually forgot the stuff from 3 weeks ago by the time you got to the test because it was so repeditive.
College was much easier for me because it was what we had to learn was strait-forward. Read the syllabus, do the listed problems, take the test.
If I had to teach high school, my optimum approach would be this: There would be two ways to do well in the class. One would be primarily through homework and some tests (standard method), the other way would be primarily through tests (college method).
If students did well on their first test, they would have the option of getting less homework graded, but having the tests more heavily weighted. If students didn't do well on the test, then they would have to do all the standard homework. Or, if they did well but didn't like heavily weighted tests, they could to homework as well.
Students who opted to do less homework would have fewer but more difficult problems.
I had a chemistry teacher like that many years ago. If you wrote the final exam and did better on it than your final grade would have been, then you just got the exam grade as your final grade. People like me did nothing all term long but just rinsed the exam and walked away with stellar grades. Best classes I ever had until I went to uni.
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United States24788 Posts
On November 01 2008 00:30 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2008 21:50 micronesia wrote:
If I mentioned the word integral my boss would have a heart attack lol
Then for what damn reason are they learning about integrals in the math courses? Just about none of my students take any calculus.Show nested quote +On October 31 2008 15:33 fight_or_flight wrote:
If I had to teach high school, my optimum approach would be this: There would be two ways to do well in the class. One would be primarily through homework and some tests (standard method), the other way would be primarily through tests (college method).
Well thats one thing, I do not really understand why high school in the US have so much graded homework for the hard sciences. When I were in our high school we had several small tests and one big one for each course of math/physics but no grade based homework at all, that means that you do not need to work more than until you understand instead of forcing everyone to work until their fingers bleed. But of course for the "lesser" students graded homework is a good idea since it forces them to study and makes it easier to pass them, but its still a dumb idea overall imo, unless it is just an optional way to pass. When I was a student I was happy to have less hw and more heavily weighted tests... and I thought that's how it should be. What I've realized is that (at least for physics) the weaker students REQUIRE the homework in order to succeed... they will do poorly on tests if they don't have ample opportunity to try what they have learned (even though you or I would be content with a lecture and a few minutes to try it out quickly). Regarding differentiating according to college vs grade-school style... this has been an issue I've thought about for a while. If a student is exceptional, they sometimes skip a grade. If exceptional students are allowed to bypass a year of work, why can't a student who does not skip a grade skip a smaller chunk of the workload if they can still perform on the exams? This is a no-in situation for teachers though because they can't force some kids to do more work than others (students/parents wouldn't understand and are always looking for things to complain about anyway). Our teacher once had a test on which every question you failed you got extra homework for, thats easy to understand and none could say that its unfair.
I assume you mean every question you got wrong. Do you mean the extra homework was based on the question you got wrong? If you do it correctly, then yeah you can make a reasonable assignment out of it (but don't worry students/parents would still complain)
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On November 01 2008 02:02 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2008 00:30 Klockan3 wrote:On October 31 2008 21:50 micronesia wrote:
If I mentioned the word integral my boss would have a heart attack lol
Then for what damn reason are they learning about integrals in the math courses? Just about none of my students take any calculus.
Soooo, why are they then studying physics? What kind of physics class is this, for those who do not intend to study sciences at college afterwards?
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United States24788 Posts
On November 01 2008 02:06 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2008 02:02 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2008 00:30 Klockan3 wrote:On October 31 2008 21:50 micronesia wrote:
If I mentioned the word integral my boss would have a heart attack lol
Then for what damn reason are they learning about integrals in the math courses? Just about none of my students take any calculus.
Soooo, why are they then studying physics? What kind of physics class is this, for those who do not intend to study sciences at college afterwards?
There are three main levels of physics.
Regents: mandated by the state and considered appropriate for a non-AP student (AP means advanced placement)
AP Physics B: Algebra based physics that covers slightly more topics than Regents, and goes more in-depth. Equivalent of physics course in college for non-majors and non-engineers.
AP Physics C: Calculus based physics which is approximately equivalent to the first two courses in physics for an engineer or physics major.
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On November 01 2008 02:10 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2008 02:06 Klockan3 wrote:On November 01 2008 02:02 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2008 00:30 Klockan3 wrote:On October 31 2008 21:50 micronesia wrote:
If I mentioned the word integral my boss would have a heart attack lol
Then for what damn reason are they learning about integrals in the math courses? Just about none of my students take any calculus.
Soooo, why are they then studying physics? What kind of physics class is this, for those who do not intend to study sciences at college afterwards? There are three main levels of physics. Regents: mandated by the state and considered appropriate for a non-AP student (AP means advanced placement) AP Physics B: Algebra based physics that covers slightly more topics than Regents, and goes more in-depth. Equivalent of physics course in college for non-majors and non-engineers. AP Physics C: Calculus based physics which is approximately equivalent to the first two courses in physics for an engineer or physics major.
Ah, then I see.
Checked some things, and it seems like they are just required to pick a subject. But the thing is, why pick physics? Can't you recommend them to do some other science course instead such as chemistry?
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United States24788 Posts
On November 01 2008 04:34 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2008 02:10 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2008 02:06 Klockan3 wrote:On November 01 2008 02:02 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2008 00:30 Klockan3 wrote:On October 31 2008 21:50 micronesia wrote:
If I mentioned the word integral my boss would have a heart attack lol
Then for what damn reason are they learning about integrals in the math courses? Just about none of my students take any calculus.
Soooo, why are they then studying physics? What kind of physics class is this, for those who do not intend to study sciences at college afterwards? There are three main levels of physics. Regents: mandated by the state and considered appropriate for a non-AP student (AP means advanced placement) AP Physics B: Algebra based physics that covers slightly more topics than Regents, and goes more in-depth. Equivalent of physics course in college for non-majors and non-engineers. AP Physics C: Calculus based physics which is approximately equivalent to the first two courses in physics for an engineer or physics major. Ah, then I see. Checked some things, and it seems like they are just required to pick a subject. But the thing is, why pick physics? Can't you recommend them to do some other science course instead such as chemistry?
The sequence is generally this:
9th: earth science
10th: biology*
11th: chemistry
12th physics
* sometimes biology->earth science
Students don't 'need' physics at all, but they do need at least two science (and three for the advanced diploma iirc). However, most colleges want students to do well in all of the sciences and will be less likely to accept or reward a prospective student who skipped a science. Therefore, most kids are pushed into physics even if they aren't ready for it.
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So in the end your job is to make stupid students look smart on paper?
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17070 Posts
On November 01 2008 05:39 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2008 04:34 Klockan3 wrote:On November 01 2008 02:10 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2008 02:06 Klockan3 wrote:On November 01 2008 02:02 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2008 00:30 Klockan3 wrote:On October 31 2008 21:50 micronesia wrote:
If I mentioned the word integral my boss would have a heart attack lol
Then for what damn reason are they learning about integrals in the math courses? Just about none of my students take any calculus.
Soooo, why are they then studying physics? What kind of physics class is this, for those who do not intend to study sciences at college afterwards? There are three main levels of physics. Regents: mandated by the state and considered appropriate for a non-AP student (AP means advanced placement) AP Physics B: Algebra based physics that covers slightly more topics than Regents, and goes more in-depth. Equivalent of physics course in college for non-majors and non-engineers. AP Physics C: Calculus based physics which is approximately equivalent to the first two courses in physics for an engineer or physics major. Ah, then I see. Checked some things, and it seems like they are just required to pick a subject. But the thing is, why pick physics? Can't you recommend them to do some other science course instead such as chemistry? The sequence is generally this: 9th: earth science 10th: biology* 11th: chemistry 12th physics * sometimes biology->earth science Students don't 'need' physics at all, but they do need at least two science (and three for the advanced diploma iirc). However, most colleges want students to do well in all of the sciences and will be less likely to accept or reward a prospective student who skipped a science. Therefore, most kids are pushed into physics even if they aren't ready for it.
If the students aren't ready for it, they shouldn't be pushed into doing it. The types of students who aren't ready for physics aren't the competitive ones that selective colleges really want, anyway, so there probably isn't a point in them taking any physics at all. Probably a really cynical view on the subject, but it's my opinion nonetheless.
Which is really kind of sad, since physics is such an important and interesting subject. But if students don't have any interest, I don't think the school should make them take physics. Hell, make them take an "easier" science course such as environmental studies or something. Which isn't to disparage their branch of science, but in my opinion, higher level skills such as critical thinking and application of previous knowledge just isn't used to such a magnitude as it is in a science such as physics or chemistry.
So yeah, I think making students take courses they're just not prepared for is a stupid policy on the school's part.
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United States24788 Posts
On November 01 2008 09:50 Klockan3 wrote:
So in the end your job is to make stupid students look smart on paper?
I suppose this is fairly accurate.
On November 01 2008 10:34 Empyrean wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2008 05:39 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2008 04:34 Klockan3 wrote:On November 01 2008 02:10 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2008 02:06 Klockan3 wrote:On November 01 2008 02:02 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2008 00:30 Klockan3 wrote:On October 31 2008 21:50 micronesia wrote:
If I mentioned the word integral my boss would have a heart attack lol
Then for what damn reason are they learning about integrals in the math courses? Just about none of my students take any calculus.
Soooo, why are they then studying physics? What kind of physics class is this, for those who do not intend to study sciences at college afterwards? There are three main levels of physics. Regents: mandated by the state and considered appropriate for a non-AP student (AP means advanced placement) AP Physics B: Algebra based physics that covers slightly more topics than Regents, and goes more in-depth. Equivalent of physics course in college for non-majors and non-engineers. AP Physics C: Calculus based physics which is approximately equivalent to the first two courses in physics for an engineer or physics major. Ah, then I see. Checked some things, and it seems like they are just required to pick a subject. But the thing is, why pick physics? Can't you recommend them to do some other science course instead such as chemistry? The sequence is generally this: 9th: earth science 10th: biology* 11th: chemistry 12th physics * sometimes biology->earth science Students don't 'need' physics at all, but they do need at least two science (and three for the advanced diploma iirc). However, most colleges want students to do well in all of the sciences and will be less likely to accept or reward a prospective student who skipped a science. Therefore, most kids are pushed into physics even if they aren't ready for it. If the students aren't ready for it, they shouldn't be pushed into doing it. The types of students who aren't ready for physics aren't the competitive ones that selective colleges really want, anyway, so there probably isn't a point in them taking any physics at all. Probably a really cynical view on the subject, but it's my opinion nonetheless. Which is really kind of sad, since physics is such an important and interesting subject. But if students don't have any interest, I don't think the school should make them take physics. Hell, make them take an "easier" science course such as environmental studies or something. Which isn't to disparage their branch of science, but in my opinion, higher level skills such as critical thinking and application of previous knowledge just isn't used to such a magnitude as it is in a science such as physics or chemistry. So yeah, I think making students take courses they're just not prepared for is a stupid policy on the school's part.
I agree with you, but on the other hand, I can't really complain, because they wouldn't need physics teachers if they didn't push kids to take physics... but I just wish they didn't have disproportionate expectations.
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EPT
