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8748 Posts
They suck.
Blue Storm
Ok I was expecting this one since it's in the National final map pack so it's fine. The rest aren't.
Python
Old map that I haven't practiced in a long time (pre-TSL?). It's plain and boring. It's SUPER imbalanced against Protoss -- only 40% win in both PvZ and PvT with enough games to make those stats legitimate. Terran has 60% win for both TvP and TvZ.
Peaks of Baekdu
Old map that I haven't practiced in a long time. It's a good map but it has already run its course. It favors Protoss, but not as much as Python favors Terran, because of their ratios against Zerg on each map.
Tau Cross
Old map that I haven't practiced in a long time. I think I practiced it a little for TSL, but not much, since it was only used for one stage, I kind of blew it off. I guess it's a decent map but I feel like it has run its course and there's nothing new to do on it . It follows the traditional Z>P>T balance, with T=Z. Slightly bad for Terran/good for Zerg.
Ride of Valkyries
I need to dust off the history books for this map. I have never practiced this map. Stats say the matchups are even except Z>P though that could be a result of the era. Why in the world is this map in the pool? I can understand Proleague making a move to revive some old favorites, and even them doing it was quite controversial, but WCG does it without good reason and everyone just goes along with it.
So I haven't played my national final yet, so perhaps this all won't matter to me, but I felt like saying that this map pool is ridiculous anyway. Why have two different map pools for Nationals and Grand Finals? What if the best American player on the Nationals maps isn't the best player on the Grand Finals maps? What if there is nobody in the world to practice these maps with except the competition? Why have five maps? Ridiculous!
In my opinion, old maps should only be used if there are really really good reasons. The map pool of BS/Othello/Andro/Troy was decent. Just drop Troy. BS/Othello/Andro play out really differently for most matchups and, taken as a whole, are pretty balanced. Playing a Bo3 on those three maps would be entertaining and fair. Everyone is playing them and practicing them now so that all the good players can play their best on these maps. Having to revert back to old ones in less than 2 months time is silly and should only be necessary if all the maps were like Troy.
 
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United States24676 Posts
I prefer the maps from that era lol
I remember when python came out and I decided I liked it more than luna.
I remember when peaks came out and I said 'I hate mini chokes f this'
I remember when Tau Cross came out (along with arkanoid and another) and I decided I liked it much more than arkanoid
I remember when I was first learning to play and RoV was one of the nice maps.
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Calgary25980 Posts
Yes this map pool is terrible.
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did they change mappool again? i thought it was like this
Added: Andromeda, Othello, Troy
Removed: Python, Tau Cross, Neo Beakdu Daegan, WCG Gaia
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Wtf?
Thought the map pool was Othello, Troy and Andromeda?
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Netherlands19135 Posts
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Yeah, these maps are ancient... They need to get with the times! No new korean maps =\.
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WTF man sometimes WCG is meh
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Odd considering the maps are selected in korea.. why the FUCK would they go with these?
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United States11390 Posts
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On October 01 2008 01:33 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Odd considering the maps are selected in korea.. why the FUCK would they go with these?
maybe they dont want all the zerg's and terrans to get knocked outta group stage.
with these maps maybe a protoss has to earn it. instead of the maps giving it to them ^^
even tho it seems dumb to have diffrent National finals.. and Grand finals map pool.
being a (zerg) i would much prefer this pool over the likes of troy 
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I love ROV =, you can practice with me ;p
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On October 01 2008 01:33 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Odd considering the maps are selected in korea.. why the FUCK would they go with these?
Are they really? WCG is the worst thing I've ever heard of ... at least players get to play and fans get to watch, even if it is horribly orchestrated.
And Nony, even if you hate the map pool, you only a final away from being a progamer. But best of luck with WCG too!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I recommend all protoss get in touch with FrozenArbiter.. he had a RoV build that will win 99% of your games there.
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Belgium9947 Posts
is this a carlodajin trap?
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Vatican City State1872 Posts
i know a few instant win pvz builds on rov
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On October 01 2008 01:46 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I recommend all protoss get in touch with FrozenArbiter.. he had a RoV build that will win 99% of your games there.
Haha I remeber he had a PvZ build on Rush Hour that would win 99% too
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Belgium9947 Posts
oh and the maps will be finally announced Oct 10th is what the pdf says.
tbh any map is more fair than Troy
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Until you switch your race to zerg, don't complain.
Welcome to WCG. Maps no one wants to play or practice and the only people you can practice with are usually your competition. Good luck.
But to be fair, all these old maps were pretty fucking active a while ago with the exception of RoV. In fact all these maps were mega fucking active and apparently Blue Storm was a big one while I was away. (Unless this peaks is the first one, which is LOL).
So if you can't rekindle the old strategies fast on the old maps, that's your problem. They were played a LOT. And i'm sure you played them a lot a year or more ago. And if you played them that long ago it shouldn't be lost to you.
So stop making posts complaining and go hammer out a build order and refine your game.
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8748 Posts
The map cycle will be announced on Oct 10th, meaning that the specific maps that will be played for each specific match will be announced then. The map pool is as I said and that PDF was last modified September 26 so I'm pretty sure that's what they're sticking to now.
For anyone wondering, you can find the National Final rules and the Grand Final rules here: http://www.wcg.com/6th/2008/games/officialgames.asp?selgame=2
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BS/Othello/Andromeda usually require a Macro-type of play, hard to cheese on those Maps, maybe Blue Storm, but most players scout really well on that Map. I think it's good to change a few Maps, all those New Maps come with boring Macro-style games, but this new map pool sucks as well, Python is so overplayed.
They should just use the Maps Silent Vortex, Gorky, Vertigo, Korhal of Ceres and Gaema Gowon for some old skool (Terran) ownage
Anyway, only good map I see in this Map Pool is Peaks, I like that Map
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Double Post, remove it please
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I just hate troy, that map is sooooo boring/bad/gay in every way 
Well, atleast they're not using maps such as Azalea and Gaia again.
Imo they should just keep up a bit better with the evolution of maps, I mean they used Aza, Gaia and Paranoid Android for like, forever?!
Maps such as Othello or Andromeda, those are fairly new atleast. WCG is probably the biggest event for SC so they should really step up and stop acting like Cpt_Obvious
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I think any player going to WCG should just be glad they aren't a zerg playing on korhal of ceres / gorky island / jungle story / paranoid android (especially at 3:00 LoL).
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Man at least WCG is somewhat updating their maps. Better than playing on PA, Azalea, or Gaia, AGAIN.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
Indeed, OSL and MSL hand-me-downs are a lot better than WCG-exclusives.
Nevertheless, I don't know why WCG doesn't just take a batch of the current promaps instead. Are they so out-of-touch with their player base that they think we actually want old promaps like these? Or is it possible OGN and MBCGame won't let WCG use their current maps, or would charge WCG money to use them? I remember when PGT and WGT wanted to use their maps, the mapmakers were VERY protective and restrictive of their maps, so if they're blocking WCG from using current maps then it wouldn't surprise me. =P
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WCG maps are Othello, Blue Storm, Andromeda and Troy.
[edit]
Removed question mark.
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On October 01 2008 02:34 BlackStar wrote:
WCG maps are Othello, Blue Storm, Andromeda and Troy.
[edit]
Removed question mark.
Where are you getting your information? Did you read the official WCG pdf?
I'm sick of Peaks. Tau is a nice choice. RoV may be imbalanced in favor of Protoss given the current strategy paradigm, particularly PvZ.
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I think it's a decent map pool, tho Troy is the worst map i've ever seen.
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On October 01 2008 02:57 ahole-surprise wrote:
Where are you getting your information?
Download the mappack for SC on the international WCG site.
Remember the Korean qualifiers? Which maps did they use? Right. Download some replays from national WCGs. Maps were changed on june 27 or something. Most nationals changed their mappools at that point. I played the new maps just 2 weeks after the change. I just saw that US didn't change the maps, which surprised me.
Now maybe they changed the maps for a 3rd time. But then I ask where this info comes from. I went to the official site and I saw nothing mentioning the change.
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On October 01 2008 03:31 BlackStar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2008 02:57 ahole-surprise wrote:
Where are you getting your information?
Remember the Korean qualifiers? Which maps did they use? Right. Now maybe they changed the maps for a 3rd time. But then I ask where this info comes from. I went to the official site and I saw nothing mentioning the change.
Yeah, I knew that the maps you listed were considered the maps up until recently. I was asking what counterevidence you had to the newly updated official WCG pdf saying that the maps were BS, Python, Peaks, etc, you smug bastard.
Did you even check the link to the PDF in this thread, the same PDF that Nony mentioned as being the source of his information? Right.
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I didn't read the rules because I downloaded the mappack. So they say different things. They either forgot to update the mappack recently. Or they forgot to update the pdf a whole long time ago.
Rules is noted as 1.0. So unless they didn't have rules up before it's just old rules that weren't updated when WCG Korea decided on the maps, which were copied by WCG international.
Anyway, it's kind of strange. RoV? I remember they first updated to Blue Storm, Python, Gaia, Tau Cross and Peaks. The maps that are still the WCG US maps.
You never know with WCG. For WCG US they may very well set up the computers for the matches, go to the official site to download the mappack and thus download Othello, Andromeda, etc.
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No Othello or Andromeda  ??
And btw, acceptable pool, too bad that Python sucks and RoV it´s way too old, but bleh, it´s not the end of the world.
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lol i don't think all wcg participants know that the mappool got changed
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Sweden33719 Posts
*WOW*
This is the most boring map pool EVER. I'm not even sure I'll bother watching WCG..
None of the maps are bad per se, but talk about overplayed - and to add insult to injury they include both blue storm and ride of valkyries, maps which - in PvZ anyway - play quite similiarily (at least in longer games and my limited experience).
Blah, I feel for you, petition time imo.
EDIT:
The map-list in Blackstar's post is marginally better, but I'm not looking forward to games on blue storm or troy.
EDIT: WCG was many times cooler when they had their own set of maps, even the imbalanced ones ;o
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I miss the old maps, but this is a bit too much I think... There should be at least a couple of the newer maps in the WCG map pool. I'm not very knowlegable about the game so i cant comment much on imbalance, but stats show that it IS slightly imbalanced for protoss (edit: except PvT on tau )...
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They should just go back way back in the day.
Paranoid/Gaia/Azaela
Maybe put in Dahlia of Jungle/Gorky/Estrella/Martian Cross
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On October 01 2008 03:39 BlackStar wrote:
I didn't read the rules because I downloaded the mappack. So they say different things. They either forgot to update the mappack recently. Or they forgot to update the pdf a whole long time ago.
Rules is noted as 1.0. So unless they didn't have rules up before it's just old rules that weren't updated when WCG Korea decided on the maps, which were copied by WCG international.
Anyway, it's kind of strange. RoV? I remember they first updated to Blue Storm, Python, Gaia, Tau Cross and Peaks. The maps that are still the WCG US maps.
You never know with WCG. For WCG US they may very well set up the computers for the matches, go to the official site to download the mappack and thus download Othello, Andromeda, etc.
wcg usa is using othello andro troy blue.
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Well, they still have the old maps in their rules pdf. And apparently the rules in the pdf on the international site were the source for this blog post. So one should ignore these rule pdfs for sure, it seems. I remember one where it said the matches were supposed to be played at normal speed.
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I like Python...
maybe coz i a terran...
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Nony, I can't help notice your complaints are based on the fact that you haven't practised on these maps?
--
What happend to all the Andromeda and Troy hate on the last wcg map thread? I don't like RoV though.
Anyway, this will not effect the WCG US Finals, so you still have a month to practise these "new" maps.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Regardless of wether Nony has practiced them or not, as a retired (silly word to use really given that I was never a professional or anything, I guess as a no longer serious player then) player I'm not feeling too excited about the maps.
All of them have been used in like a dozen tournaments each :/
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maybe they are trying to cut back on the Korean advantage. I doubt the Koreans are going to give up any of their REAL league practice time to practice these maps, so they'll be a bit rustier than if they were playing newer maps
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8748 Posts
Energies, that's why it's a blog and not a post in Brood War / Tourneys. I just wanted to say my personal thoughts, although I'm sure I have a pretty common complaint. If I was actually making a formal complaint, I'd be more objective and try to gather some other opinions.
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The map pool was changed 3 times over the last months, and this last one is announced 30 days before WCG Grand Final. This is simply retard.
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Man WCG maps are really old
What if they had like, Nostalagia, Luna, Blade-Storm, and LT..
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On October 02 2008 03:32 iG.ClouD wrote:
The map pool was changed 3 times over the last months, and this last one is announced 30 days before WCG Grand Final. This is simply retard.
There has been a lot of complaints about the last map pool released, I believe WCG took this on board and changed the maps. It is just unfortunate that it had to be done so close to the grand final, I contacted ICM a couple of weeks ago and asked when they would release the new map list publicly, I believe the hold up was due to the national finals not being over, they didn't want to cause mass confusion by releasing a new set of maps. I guess nationals were just taking too long.
They received negative feedback on the last two map releases, I think they were just playing it safe this time, choosing maps widely used and for the most part well balanced. I can't comment on RoV though that one might have just been pulled out of the air, it'll be fun for the spectators though.
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EPT
