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nA.Inky
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States794 Posts
November 30 2007 00:44 GMT
#21
Jibba: glad there is no hostility. I also understand the need to throw down. It is fun. Pomo theories and other ideas are strongly double edged: you can take them as nihilistic - everything is meaningless and uncertain, and so on, or you can take them as allowing for intense meaning and multiplicity of truth. That is how I take it. See, it's not that nothing is real or true, or that I don't trust my mind, it's that whatever we say about something is incomplete. There is more to be said... there is something "beyond." That is something like God. So I do not worry about finishing the story or finding absolute truth - that's a dead end in my thinking. Instead, I focus on process - what is working? What gives life meaning? What is healthy and good? And we can have serious discussions about these questions and never come to a final answer, but this is the kind of thinking I am more interested in, and my "mystical" philosophy is based in that.

I still do not see how we can ever truly understand anything, as we cannot come outside of ourselves to say what a thing really is. I can describe an apple by my sense of it, by my associations with it, and so on, but the apple is something I am experiencing subjectively. Others will experience it differently, based on culture, and based on whether they are human or not. So, my position is that EXPERIENCE is what is real, and discussing what is real beyond experience is meaningless. There IS NO beyond experience (so no absolute truth), in my thinking.

Certainly appreciate your thoughts. Peace

Nick
Email (use instead of PM): InkMeister at aol dot com AIM: InkMeister
nA.Inky
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States794 Posts
November 30 2007 00:48 GMT
#22
Just to note: we get into that thing of "if you say nothing is true, you undermine your own statement - it's a paradox." Fair enough. So instead I reply "things can be true, but truth is contingent." (changing, varying person to person, etc...)
Email (use instead of PM): InkMeister at aol dot com AIM: InkMeister
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
November 30 2007 01:05 GMT
#23
I take the same approach that I do when Intelligent Design supporters claim that God created the scientific foundations and laws. It might be true that God is responsible for everything and not natural law, but if that's the case then the two are indistinguishable and it seems to be more practical and reliable to turn to science for answers instead of God. Like you said, I go with what is working.

As for my purpose and reason for living even if I do believe one day both my body and soul (whatever the hell a soul is) will die, I turn to my boy.

When, without the bitterness of impotent rebellion, we have learnt both to resign ourselves to the outward rules of Fate and to recognise that the non-human world is unworthy of our worship, it becomes possible at last so to transform and refashion the unconscious universe, so to transmute it in the crucible of imagination, that a new image of shining gold replaces the old idol of clay. In all the multiform facts of the world--in the visual shapes of trees and mountains and clouds, in the events of the life of man, even in the very omnipotence of Death--the insight of creative idealism can find the reflection of a beauty which its own thoughts first made. In this way mind asserts its subtle mastery over the thoughtless forces of Nature.

...

The life of Man, viewed outwardly, is but a small thing in comparison with the forces of Nature. The slave is doomed to worship Time and Fate and Death, because they are greater than anything he finds in himself, and because all his thoughts are of things which they devour. But, great as they are, to think of them greatly, to feel their passionless splendour, is greater still. And such thought makes us free men; we no longer bow before the inevitable in Oriental subjection, but we absorb it, and make it a part of ourselves. To abandon the struggle for private happiness, to expel all eagerness of temporary desire, to burn with passion for eternal things--this is emancipation, and this is the free man's worship.

ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
nA.Inky
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States794 Posts
November 30 2007 01:36 GMT
#24
I believe I will die too, Jibba. I'm not sure of our differences on these matters - they appear to be subtle. It's not like I'm saying there is a heaven and we will all go there and party down in the end. Instead I'm saying that you and I are a process that is happening, and the process itself will continue happening even as our specific forms change to what we call "dead." I think it's that I'm arguing for a different concept of "self," and a different concept of "death." I also see a magic in the ordinary, and I believe it's because I've opened myself to it. I like the words of your boy, as they seem to sort of express an appreciation of the magic I refer to.

Like I said, it's a difference in interpretation.

Again, nice quote. Nice to hear from you. PEace.

Nick
Email (use instead of PM): InkMeister at aol dot com AIM: InkMeister
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