• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:03
CEST 15:03
KST 22:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)15Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster3Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back0Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week4Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2
StarCraft 2
General
Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025) Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation
Tourneys
Monday Nights Weeklies EWC 2025 Online Qualifiers (May 28-June 1, June 21-22) WardiTV Mondays RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House
Brood War
General
bonjwa.tv: my AI project that translates BW videos BW General Discussion Who wrote this nonsense about Flash? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - LB Round 4 & 5 [ASL19] Grand Finals
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Echoes of Revolution and Separation
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Pro Gamers Cope with Str…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 33393 users

eSports vs. Sports - does it belong to us or them?

Blogs > BreAKerTV
Post a Reply
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
July 22 2016 04:50 GMT
#1
I made a similar post to my real facebook page, not BreAKer Rush or BreAKersc2 - 賓哥 a few minutes ago, just letting my own thought process drift about and drawing some conclusions. I thought maybe I would share what my own thoughts on it are here and see if there are any like-minded individuals who feel the same way.

The eSports vs. Sports argument has existed for a long long time. Like "Is it sport?" Today I bring up something different and one of the main reasons why I switched to CS:GO, but I think this fits in to the scope of eSports vs. Sports or "are eSports a sport?"

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Riot Games essentially pioneered eSports and brought it to level playing field with regular sports. I think it's literally the first time I ever saw Geico Car insurance sponsor both a sports team and an eSports team. It sounds bad for me to bring up Riot Games or LoL up here on Teamliquid, so I want to make some fair comparisons. I think if Starcraft was equatable to a real world sport, it would be like Tennis. I think if LoL were compared to a real life sport, it would be basketball. Does that sound like a fair statement?

let's get to the point

At one point, Riot Games had LCS player contracts that said their players could not play 26 other games while streaming in a nutshell. Fair enough, after all, Riot Games was giving players salaries. Question is, "Is that really fair? They can't play another game in their free time?" Who knows... I think SC2 players were given amazing amounts of leniency for their free time by comparison, in the 2013 era. They were not salaried, however.

Let's examine tournament organizers and game publishers as tournament organizers
I think by far this is what has transformed the most since 2012. I don't think much has changed with ESL, but rather scope and scale of everything they have done to this point of time has increased consistently - audience, graphics, reach, live events, you name it. It's just gotten better and better for them. Dreamhack has grown as well.

One of the things that bothers me the most, however, and I feel is very worthy of discussion would be the fact that game publishers are stepping up their roles as both tournament organizers and Intellectual Property owners. From both a logical and objective perspective I feel there is a large conflict of interest involved. This means that game publishers could charge tournament organizers fees to purchase a license to organize and run tournaments. "We'll let you run tournaments if we want you to run tournaments." Let's think of a real-world scenario where we have Johnny playing Baseball with his friends and classmates in winchester field, idaho. The field was built by city hall. His dad is doing a youtube livestream of the game and then MLB steps in and says to Johnny's dad "You have seven days to stop streaming baseball to youtube or you will face a lawsuit from us." This scenario is entirely fictional and not likely to hold up because MLB is not the I.P. holder to baseball, right? But I've seen and heard of entirely more bizarre things happening like lawsuits taking place for singing "Happy Birthday."

Further re-iterating the above paragraph, we must ask ourselves more questions, like, "Is it ethical for a company to permanently ban players of certain games no matter how many game accounts they purchase / spend money on?" It's all in the EULA, yes, but there could be in-game mechanics that prevent things like intentionally feeding in mobas or killing teammates in games without ruining the player experience. Again the real life comparison is, "You can ban Kobe Bryant or Micheal Jordan or Shaq from whatever league they were in previously, but you can't stop them from holding a basketball or shooting hoops."

Valve has very limited involvement with tournament organizers, unless they are titled "DoTA 2 Major" or "CS:GO Major." The rules are simple - if you don't have a VAC ban, and if you've never thrown a game for skins, and if you've never taken any drug you don't have a prescription for, then you can play.


TL;DR - Are eSports the same as traditional sports? Do Intellectual Property protection mechanisms interfere with the role of Game Publishers to act as objective tournament organizers? You decide.

*
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
Suichoy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada397 Posts
July 22 2016 21:10 GMT
#2
Lol @ coming to Teamliquid and saying that Riot, not Kespa, invented eSports. You mean in North America?
Jett.Jack.Alvir
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada2250 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-23 00:54:42
July 23 2016 00:54 GMT
#3
Have you ever been to a Scrabble tournament? I know that sounds incredibly geeky, and most likely you or many other TLers haven't participated in one.

Did you know you can't run any Scrabble tournament without Hasbro's approval? And nearly all Scrabble tournaments are run by Hasbro. It is not a conflict of interest if developers want to run all tournaments for their respective games. They want to protect their intellectual property, thus they control all tournaments. Now not all developers will approach tournaments in the same fashion. If Riot wants to have strict control over their IP, so be it. No conflict here.

The other part about LoL players that couldn't play 26 other games while streaming is completely reasonable. If I am paying someone a salary to play my videogame, I will be damn sure he won't be promoting my competitors by livestreaming their games. And they can play any game they want on their free time. They just can't stream it.

Breaker, I have respect for you. You made a name for yourself in esports. It helped that you are a Caucasian that can speak Chinese (not sure which dialect). However, this blog post of yours has nothing to do with esports vs. conventional sports. It’s really all about how Riot handles tournaments and players. And you write it like a diatribe against Riot and LoL.
BreAKerTV
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Taiwan1658 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-24 05:29:25
July 24 2016 04:11 GMT
#4
On July 23 2016 06:10 Suichoy wrote:
Lol @ coming to Teamliquid and saying that Riot, not Kespa, invented eSports. You mean in North America?

Sorry for the late reply, but in short, yes.

KeSPA is a community that revolved around their love for games and watching people play comptitively (for the longest time, primarily Starcraft: Brood War, but I imagine they dappled in WC3 as well, and then SC2 and LoL and the rest of Blizzard's games these days).

On July 23 2016 09:54 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Did you know you can't run any Scrabble tournament without Hasbro's approval? And nearly all Scrabble tournaments are run by Hasbro. It is not a conflict of interest if developers want to run all tournaments for their respective games. They want to protect their intellectual property, thus they control all tournaments. Now not all developers will approach tournaments in the same fashion. If Riot wants to have strict control over their IP, so be it. No conflict here.

The other part about LoL players that couldn't play 26 other games while streaming is completely reasonable. If I am paying someone a salary to play my videogame, I will be damn sure he won't be promoting my competitors by livestreaming their games. And they can play any game they want on their free time. They just can't stream it.

Breaker, I have respect for you. You made a name for yourself in esports. It helped that you are a Caucasian that can speak Chinese (not sure which dialect). However, this blog post of yours has nothing to do with esports vs. conventional sports. It’s really all about how Riot handles tournaments and players. And you write it like a diatribe against Riot and LoL.


It's just that I feel like there should be a limit to when a company owns a game's intellectual property, when tournaments can be broadcast, etc. etc.

I've spoken with some other guys behind the scenes about the topics I covered here, and I'm not licking Valve's boots because even those other guys that I just mentioned have said that Valve will eventually have to take similar steps to Riot Games and, now, what Blizzard is doing with WoW, SC2, Overwatch, and their other titles.
Retired caster / streamer "BingeHD". Digital Nomad.
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
July 24 2016 18:07 GMT
#5
Riot Games pioneered esports? Ok.
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
#41
WardiTV888
OGKoka 577
Rex188
CranKy Ducklings113
IntoTheiNu 47
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 577
Harstem 321
Lowko266
Rex 188
Creator 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 2042
EffOrt 915
actioN 471
BeSt 401
Stork 365
Mini 357
firebathero 181
Light 159
Snow 151
ZerO 133
[ Show more ]
JYJ125
ToSsGirL 108
Dewaltoss 101
TY 91
Mind 77
Rush 50
Backho 38
PianO 34
Shinee 33
Yoon 32
Icarus 22
soO 17
GoRush 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Bale 8
Noble 7
Hm[arnc] 6
Terrorterran 3
Dota 2
Gorgc3728
XaKoH 497
XcaliburYe274
qojqva161
febbydoto6
League of Legends
Dendi560
JimRising 467
Counter-Strike
x6flipin562
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0284
Mew2King166
Other Games
singsing1850
hiko669
B2W.Neo433
crisheroes390
Hui .187
SortOf95
ZerO(Twitch)19
ArmadaUGS9
Liquid`VortiX4
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream20547
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream5263
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
2h 57m
Replay Cast
20h 57m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 10h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
BSL: ProLeague
5 days
SOOP
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
BSL: ProLeague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Rose Open S1
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.