• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
TeamLiquid Liquipedia LiquidDota LiquidLegends
EDT 21:45
CEST 03:45
KST 10:45
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
WTL 2022 Summer - Week 2 Recap & Week 3 Preview8Rogue wins 4th GSL Code S Championship54Road to CCL S4: A World without Drafts1WTL 2022 Summer - Week 1 Recap & Week 2 Preview11Code S Season 1 Finals: Creator vs Rogue Preview32
Community News
DHM Valencia: Regionals Group Draw15Elazer Joins Team Liquid42[BSL15] Asia Championship - 16 - 22 May on Trovo3ESL Open #122: ByuN, Clem, Cure win2[BSL15] RO16 Groups, Maps, Schedule and more!11
StarCraft 2
General
What balance / design changes do you want to see? StarCraft Mass Recall: SC1 campaigns on SC2 thread Rogue wins 4th GSL Code S Championship DHM Valencia: Regionals Group Draw ESL Open #122: ByuN, Clem, Cure win
Tourneys
[WTL 2021] Summer - Week 4 DreamHack Masters: Valencia 2022 - Regionals [Alpha Pro Series] Creator vs ByuN [GdA] Noob Tournament (Bronze to 3.8k) GdA-Night Tournament
Strategy
What is the math on 17 nexus vs 20 nexus? Calling out PiG and Winter [G] PvZ: Nexus First into Dark Templar Drop [G] PvZ Cheese: +1 Zealot Dance Party
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Altitude StarLance | Extension Mod – Multiplayer LotV
External Content
Mutation # 317 Price of Progress Mutation # 316 Fright nigh Mutation # 315 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 314 Wheel of Misfortune:Cradle of Death
Brood War
General
Some CN players’ ID and BW General Discussion Starcraft Remastered Foreigner Ranking Anyone know if ASTL is happening any time soon? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
KCM 2022 Season 2 [BSL15] RO16 Groups, Maps, Schedule and more! The Casual Games of the Week Thread Asia Championship forecast
Strategy
Add 1 medic per base vs storm drops TvT: Wraiths or Battlecruisers? Why recall is not used on tanks? TvP Rush vs Best and vulture harassment.
Other Games
Heroes of the Storm
HotS: WP and Funny Moments Road to CCL S4: A World without Drafts Road to CCL S4: Meeting the New Rosters META Madness 6: Where Heroes are Made
General Games
Age of Empires IV FF7 remake for PS4 announced Total War: Warhammer III Genshin Impact - Coop RPG Path of Exile
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Chezinu streak(s) Mafia
Hearthstone
Introduce yourself!
LoL General
LoL Tournaments
LoL Strategy
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Chinese Conundrum US Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The Creator Fan Club Zest Fan Club The Moon Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Manga] One Piece [TV] HBO Game of Thrones
Sports
2021 - 2022 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story 2021 NFL/CFB Season NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
Tech Support
The Ultimate Mouse Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
my maps
NicknameLucifer
Getting Back to it..!.20 years…
FuDDx
Computer tinkering and …
Starlightsun
Age
AmericanUmlaut
Is Team Liquid a light blue …
aisight
PCT Highlights: Lakes & Northe…
Tak3r
Mapmaking notes #4
depressed1
International Associatio…
Arghmyliver
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 915 users

France's Rise to the Best SC2-Nation of the West

Blogs > TheOneAboveU
Post a Reply
TheOneAboveU
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany3336 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-10 15:04:56
July 10 2015 14:59 GMT
#1
Hello, here is the translation of a German article I wrote. It was supposed to be part of my next DreamHack preview, but it grew a lot bigger, so it has become something of its own. It's a bit chaotic because of that. :D
Also keep in mind that I am German and have no special expert insight into the French scene. Feedback on my English is appreciated as well.
---
France did a lot of things right in the past few years and is now able to collect the fruits of this labour. A flourishing scene with LAN's as well as online tournaments has made the competition in the country extremely hard and thanks to several big organizations, which engage themselves in different areas and have solid financial support, there now is an infrastructure that is unsurpassed in other western nations. Additionally France has a passionate community and a long gaming tradition. Sweden once was in the same position, has been going downhill for a long time now.

With Lilbow a Foreigner stood in the WCS Final for the first time since Season 1 of 2013 - and of course the finalist of the time, Stephano, is a Frenchman himself. His fellow countryman MarineLorD reached the Top 8 of the same tournament, three French (Lilbow, MarineLorD and PtitDrogo) got into the Top 8 of HomeStory Cup XI, beating the recent GSL champion on their path. Whatever online tournament and qualifier in Europe you watch right now, a new talent from France will be there to make a name for himself. The reasons for this success are the topic of this write-up.

The French scene has a lot tradition behind it, especially in RTS games. ElkY is one of the most successfull foreign Brood War players of all time, taking a Top 4 spot in StarLeague and a silver medal at the World Cyber Games. ToD is a WarCraft 3 legend whose name stands on a level with giants like Grubby and Moon. And of course Stephano continued this line in StarCraft 2. The new generation has a lot idols to look up to and can see itself as the successor of great legends.

Stephano may be a critical part of France's success. He was a natural talent, who didn't need great help to get as good as he got, no huge infrastructure to help him grow. Through his success a lot of people had an idol to follow, to look up to and to get inspired by. The people saw that this boy from their own country was able to defeat the allmighty Koreans and win glory and titles for himself. This might have been the encouragement that many players needed to give their very best and try to get better and better. But on top of that it mobilised the community and invoked its passion for game and the scene.

The French community also seems very unified. In Germany fragmentation was a big problem for the scene - we basically had three big casters (TaKe, HomerJ, Khaldor/Mori), who all had their own following... and these three groups didn't get along very well. Additionally toxic sites like readmore increased the tensions - cooperation between the casters was rare because of that. In France fragmentation like that is not existing as far as I know. Sure, it might not have been as peacefull as I imagine, but the result is the same: A community that mostly follows one organization, O'Gaming. One of the Top 5 SC2 channels on Twitch, over 12.500 during the last WCS final - a great viewership for a non-english SC2 stream.

Interesting is another fact: For a long time the French scene had their own, isolated streams on Dailymotion. This might have contributed to the unity of the community, because there weren't that many other options to watch on Dailymotion compared to Twitch. Regular viewership was easier to build up this way and these viewers came over to Twitch when the big French orgas made that switch.

O'Gaming with their charismatic casting line-up was able to unite the community behind them, create a huge following and use these numbers and this legitimacy to contact the big Korean orgas. They are now able to broadcast the Korean leagues at EU friendly times, a unique position. This way they could make their repertoire even broader and basically made the French scene independent of any other organization. Everything is available in French. And once again: No fragmentation whatsoever.

Another big factor of the strength of France's scene is Millenium. The organization has excellent financial back-up. This money had been spent on stuff like teamhouses and a newly opened esport arena in the style of Korea. This is the best try out all of the western organizations to emulate Korean infrastructure - EG, Minstry of Win, all of them more or less failed at that. Millenium and other orgas in France also invested heavily in tournaments that were designed to boost and promote homegrown talent as well as international competition.

To just name a few of these events: Underdogs, the Francophone Championship and the French Master Series. Some of them are running since 2010, have very fair prize pools and are being promoted very well by orgas like O'Gaming, which are able to gather a lot of viewers for these tournaments, despite not having the greatest line-ups. French national pride may have its part here - the fans love their fellow countrymen, they love to see them compete and win. More than German fans for example.

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]

The sheer mass of events for French players - online and offline - enable them to gain valuable experience, to make a name for themselves and gather their first prizes. Especially the offline events are usefull, because offline experience is something precious. German players have benefitted from EPS this way for ages, the French have a lot of these chances now. Even though most of the events that are designed to grow new talent are for French speaking people only, France has made efforts to open itself to international influence. ForGG was one of the first Koreans to ever live and train in Europe. He was welcomed by Millenium and he was able to give a lot of knowhow in return - every EU player will probably attest to that.

Thats a big difference to the German scene. Yes, we have EPS, but EPS is restricted (you need have a certain age, be a ESL premium member, etc.) and EPS has been ruled by the 'Old Boys Club' for a very long time. It was this 'club' that complained about having Koreans in the league, when Germany became home to Patience, Golden, First and others. They didn't see the addition of these Koreans as a chance to improve, they saw it as a danger to their established regime. It was the new generation - Heromarine, ShoWTimE etc. - that welcomed the challenge and flourished. But many chances were missed, chances that France took: Players lived and trained with ForGG, played tournaments against him and improved accordingly.

Some more examples:

[image loading]

Most people don't know who Denver and DnS are - I don't know either, as do most non French people, but that doesn't matter right now. As we can see in the results of the talent-growth tournaments above, he has been a stable part of the French scene for some time now. That such a player can get into a well functioning teamhouse without having to fly around the planet and deal with the strange Korean culture is such an amazing boon. This is the sort of infrastructure, that is needed create really strong and competitve players - talent is discovered, promoted and given the chance to try the adventure of being a fulltime progamer. Without the risk that comes with a long time commitment in Korea for example.
A second thing we can read out of these Tweets is the following: Cooperation is an essential factor for success. There are several big and small teams in France, all of them rivals in several teamleagues and yet they all work for one goal: Improving the French scene. The same goes for the players themselves, culminating in the ad-hoc team 'Baguette', essentially a French national team that takes part in international teamleagues.

A short summary:
- France built up infrastructre in the Korean sense, that can discover, promote and hold talent through generous online and offline tournaments of many kinds and well functioning materiel infrastructure (the Millenium teamhouse); chances to get into this system are even for everyone who is willed and skill enough.
- The French community is heavily engaged and passionate and is organized on (mostly) the two plattforms of O'Gaming and Millenium, which promotes regular viewership and unity.
- National pride and language are huge factors, even in our globalized time, for promoting passion and interest (the first thing might be special for France, because it's really not a big factor in Germany at all... obviously).
- Teams, players and organizations have a sense of unity and common purpose, they cooperate to improve their collective scene more than any other country.

France has invested a lot - money, passion and many good ideas. The country has found the golden way between strengthening their home scene and opening it to the world. Players like Lilbow, MarineLorD and FireCake are the result of a long and successfull process, but they are only the tip of the iceberg. The production of talent in France has only now begun.
France was able to emulate a Korean-style infrastructure in european geographical and cultural conditions - that is their masterpiece.
---
Some points of my original article may have been lost in translation, but I hope it was a comprehensive summary of what I think are the strenghts of the French SC2 scene right now.

*****
Moderatoralias TripleM | @TL_TripleM | Big Dark Energy!
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1434 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-10 15:19:25
July 10 2015 15:19 GMT
#2
Note that Dayshi, Lilbow, Mlord, Ptitdrogo and DnS are supposed to train together after DH Valancia in Millenium's parisian team house

excellent blog
rly ?
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17332 Posts
July 10 2015 15:24 GMT
#3
5/5, French ESPORTS master ESPORTS
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16496 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-07-10 15:35:06
July 10 2015 15:28 GMT
#4
this is a good time for the french scene but i don't think that gap is that huge

early call imo

edit: btw thanks for the translation
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
Koivusto
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
Finland541 Posts
July 10 2015 15:33 GMT
#5
Very interesting write up! Thanks I'm not french but you really don't need to be one to see the value of O'Gaming.
#1 Blitzcrank #Forever platinum toss --> current diamond Terran <3
TheOneAboveU
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany3336 Posts
July 10 2015 15:34 GMT
#6
On July 11 2015 00:28 Makro wrote:
this is a good time for the french scene but i don't think that gap is that huge

early call imo

Hmm, I think we only see the first results of this... let's call it 'production cycle' of French talent. And this first wave is quite powerfull already, so it should be very interesting to see what kind of players we get out of France in the future. What their scene has done, is very sustainable and will pay off even more in the upcoming years.
Moderatoralias TripleM | @TL_TripleM | Big Dark Energy!
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16496 Posts
July 10 2015 15:39 GMT
#7
On July 11 2015 00:34 TheOneAboveU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2015 00:28 Makro wrote:
this is a good time for the french scene but i don't think that gap is that huge

early call imo

Hmm, I think we only see the first results of this... let's call it 'production cycle' of French talent. And this first wave is quite powerfull already, so it should be very interesting to see what kind of players we get out of France in the future. What their scene has done, is very sustainable and will pay off even more in the upcoming years.

this is also true

great job btw, i wonder how long it took
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
July 10 2015 15:44 GMT
#8
Very good work, you've pointed out the key points of the development of the french scene : Stephano as the first flagship, O'Gaming for the casting/tournaments side (don't forget Iron Squid and NationWars !), Millenium as the financial support for the top players : of all the top french players on SC2, only FireCake and PtitDrogo didn't play for Millenium, all the others did (MoMaN, ToD, Stephano, Dayshi, MlorD, Lilbow, you could even add the belgian Feast).

I would have just added the importance of staple smaller teams (aAa, Nuit Blanche, Punchline, now Invasion) who help the up and coming players a lot as well.

As you say in your last post, I think these are just the firstfruits of the work from all these organizations and if they continue to to the things right, I'm sure it will keep going better and better.

Kudos for this article !
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
TheOneAboveU
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany3336 Posts
July 10 2015 16:04 GMT
#9
On July 11 2015 00:44 Boucot wrote:
(...)

I would have just added the importance of staple smaller teams (aAa, Nuit Blanche, Punchline, now Invasion) who help the up and coming players a lot as well.

As you say in your last post, I think these are just the firstfruits of the work from all these organizations and if they continue to to the things right, I'm sure it will keep going better and better.

Kudos for this article !


Hehe, I mentioned that in the original article - good to see that I was on the right path with that.

Thank you for the kind words!
Moderatoralias TripleM | @TL_TripleM | Big Dark Energy!
fmod
Profile Blog Joined November 2013
Cayman Islands330 Posts
July 10 2015 20:49 GMT
#10
Nice article. I think having those local scenes is really cool and I hope we will see the same thing happening in other EU countries maybe.
I don't particularly like you.
Topin
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Peru9678 Posts
July 10 2015 21:02 GMT
#11
nice blog 5/5

jusnt one question, who is behind Millenium? they look like nice people
i would define my style between a mix of ByuN, Maru and MKP
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16496 Posts
July 10 2015 22:52 GMT
#12
On July 11 2015 06:02 Topin wrote:
nice blog 5/5

jusnt one question, who is behind Millenium? they look like nice people

boucot would be better to answer this but iirc millenium at their core was a bunch of passionnate that had a cybercafé once where they held LAN and things like this

Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
aRyuujin
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States4895 Posts
July 10 2015 23:50 GMT
#13
On July 11 2015 00:34 TheOneAboveU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2015 00:28 Makro wrote:
this is a good time for the french scene but i don't think that gap is that huge

early call imo

Hmm, I think we only see the first results of this... let's call it 'production cycle' of French talent. And this first wave is quite powerfull already, so it should be very interesting to see what kind of players we get out of France in the future. What their scene has done, is very sustainable and will pay off even more in the upcoming years.


This is a key point I feel. This is only the first set of players who have reaped the benefits from the massive French sc2 infrastructure. Within 2 years it will not be close- Unless some substantiative changes arrive in other countries, each new generation of sc2 players in the foreign scene will be more and more dominated by france, especially with the comparative decline of Sweden and the movement of talent to cs and heroes. I think France has so far been less Dota, lol, cs oriented and that has also helped
can i get my estro logo back pls
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
July 11 2015 04:12 GMT
#14
On July 11 2015 08:50 aRyuujin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 11 2015 00:34 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On July 11 2015 00:28 Makro wrote:
this is a good time for the french scene but i don't think that gap is that huge

early call imo

Hmm, I think we only see the first results of this... let's call it 'production cycle' of French talent. And this first wave is quite powerfull already, so it should be very interesting to see what kind of players we get out of France in the future. What their scene has done, is very sustainable and will pay off even more in the upcoming years.


This is a key point I feel. This is only the first set of players who have reaped the benefits from the massive French sc2 infrastructure. Within 2 years it will not be close- Unless some substantiative changes arrive in other countries, each new generation of sc2 players in the foreign scene will be more and more dominated by france, especially with the comparative decline of Sweden and the movement of talent to cs and heroes. I think France has so far been less Dota, lol, cs oriented and that has also helped

SC2 is indeed pretty strong in France compared to other countries but the esport scene is still massively dominated by LoL and it's not even close. CS:GO is also bigger and bigger (CS is historically a big game in France and the results of LDLC/Envyus have contributed to the popularity of the game). Hearthstone is pretty massive as well. However, DotA 2 is completely dead in France, I don't think there is a single professional DotA 2 player in the country. Nobody gives a shit about DotA 2, even HoS is bigger.

On July 11 2015 06:02 Topin wrote:
nice blog 5/5

jusnt one question, who is behind Millenium? they look like nice people

At the beginning, in 2001, Millenium was a guild on Dark Age of Camelot. Then they switched to WoW and quickly became one of the most succesful guilds. (Note : I discovered Millenium and esport in 2011 so I might not be totally accurate but I'm pretty sure of what I said)

After that they expanded to esport games with CS 1.6, WC3 (Stephano, YellOwStaR who is now the best european LoL player).

At the same time, they wanted to be sustainable by themselves, not only relying on sponsors. So they launched Millenium.org, a video game website with news about esport but also traditional games and with the release of SC2, a Web TV was started that quickly became the biggest gaming Web TV in France (until O'Gaming's rise in 2012/2013).

Now Millenium.org is the second or third biggest videogames website in France behind the juggernaut Jeuxvideo.com and in early 2015, it has been acquired by Webedia, one of the biggest media groups of the country, likely for a couple of M€. Note that Jeuxvideo.com was acquired by the same group six months before for 90 M€.

Historically based in Marseille, Millenium is currently moving to Paris in the new Webedia HQ and an esports arena is being built to host competitions.

I've tried to summarize as much as I could, I hope that's the kind of answer you were expecting.
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Deathfate Pro Team League
00:30
Week 3
Deathfate
LiquipediaDiscussion
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
23:00
FSL day Playoffs day 4
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Forgg! 185
Nina 171
ProTech109
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis1748
Moletrap 16
Deathfate
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby1716
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox2629
C9.Mang02011
Other Games
tarik_tv20335
summit1g19089
shahzam2935
NeuroSwarm180
Maynarde134
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3245
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive
ESL CS:GO2034
ESL CS:GO B1063
Other Games
BasetradeTV96
StarCraft 2
OGamingTV SC2 54
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 27
• TheZergLord 25
• davetesta 21
• Migwel
• Alpha X_
• aXEnki
• intothetv
• Gussbus
• Kozan
• Poblha
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamez Trovo
• Laughngamez YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 14
• sscaitournament1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• STPLYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Other Games
• TSM TheOddOne539
Upcoming Events
ESL Pro Tour
7h 16m
ITaX Super Series
9h 16m
Cure vs Solar
Creator vs soO
ESL Pro Tour
10h 16m
ESL Pro Tour
13h 16m
Chickenman Events
15h 16m
ESL Pro Tour
18h 16m
OSC
19h 16m
ESL Pro Tour
1d 7h
Alpha Pro Series
1d 7h
ByuN vs Creator
ESL Pro Tour
1d 10h
[ Show More ]
ESL Pro Tour
1d 13h
ESL Pro Tour
1d 18h
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
1d 21h
ESL Pro Tour
2 days
ESL Pro Tour
2 days
ESL Pro Tour
2 days
ESL Pro Tour
2 days
ESL Pro Tour
3 days
ESL Pro Tour
3 days
ESL Pro Tour
3 days
ESL Pro Tour
3 days
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
3 days
ESL Pro Tour
3 days
ESL Pro Tour
4 days
ESL Pro Tour
4 days
ESL Pro Tour
5 days
ESL Pro Tour
5 days
Deathfate Pro Team League
5 days
ESL Pro Tour
6 days
ESL Pro Tour
6 days
ESL Pro Tour
6 days
Deathfate Pro Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 15 Asia
2022 GSL S1: Code S
Heroes Rise: Contender Series 3
BLAST Spr. Showdown AME

Ongoing

RCG 2021
CWCL Season 4
Deathfate Pro Team League
HoneyCai Friendlies Season4
FS Mania
CSCL: Masked Kings
GAN Race Survival Season 4
CSL season 5 Late Spring Cup
BSL Season 15 LA
WTL 2022 Summer
DHM Valencia: EU
DHM Valencia: TW
DHM Valencia: OC
DHM Valencia: LA
Championship of Russia 2022
Community Clash League S4
Masters Clash Champ. 2022
ESL Challenger League S41 NA
ESL Challenger League S41 EU
ESL Challenger League S41 APAC
Pinnacle Cup IV
PGL Major Antwerp 2022

Upcoming

BSL Season 15
BSL Season 15 EU
BSL Season 15 NA
DH Masters Atlanta
StarCraft II: NationWars 7
2022 GSL S2: Code S
DHM Valencia: CN
DHM Valencia: NA
IEM Cologne 2022
ESL Challenger Valencia 2022
EPL Conference Season 16
BLAST Premier Spring Finals
Pinnacle Cup Championship
ESL Impact League S1 Finals
IEM Dallas 2022
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2022 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.