• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:52
CEST 14:52
KST 21:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League18Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.162Rollback Netcode in Brood War1205.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 202624Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0
StarCraft 2
General
Server Blocker Terran AddOns placement SCII needs to put more weight on strategy and tact How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $3,500 WardiTV Not-Summer Championship Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts
Brood War
General
Rollback Netcode in Brood War [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos [Recap] Hive ZvZ in MonstarZ vs Dreams [ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory! Bot on ladder
Tourneys
[ASL22] Grand Finals [$1250] International ShieldBattery League 2v2v2v2 Tournament Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread The Chess Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
MLB/Baseball 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The Link Between Gaming and …
TrAiDoS
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8359 users

"Axiom barely exists"

Blogs > TotalBiscuit
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-24 12:33:05
April 24 2015 10:35 GMT
#1
"How does Axiom even make money? They don't host their own tournaments or promote themselves in any way, and I hardly ever see their players in outside tournaments. Basically, aside from the rare news that comes out about them on reddit, I don't even know they exist? And they've been going on for how long?
And this is a serious question, because I'm geniunely interested in knowing what the business is behind teams like Axiom and ROOT, who are hardly ever promoted.
Edit: Why am I being downvoted for asking an honest question?"


Here is a fellow on /r/starcraft asking the hard-hitting questions, assuming of course this guy lived in the 5th dimension. It's so weird to see people posting this stuff on Reddit when everything Axiom announces and every video Axiom makes always ends up on the Reddit frontpage. So, let's explain for the fellows benefit.

How does Axiom make money if we dont host our own tournments or promote ourselves? Well, mostly by hosting our own tournaments and promoting ourselves. For one we have one of the most popular Youtube channels in SC2 committed to Axiom content. We're putting out videos from the teamhouse on a weekly basis. Every month we have the "Progamers vs" video where our guys take on a classic RTS. That does really well, usually a minimum of 50,000 people watch that. Then of course we have our little "IRL" videos in which our players get on camera, those are short and fairly regular. Our most recent one was about Ramen. Then we have cross promotional videos such as my Archon streams with CranK, they did pretty well too, first one got over 50,000 people watching. By comparison, the GSL Youtube channel gets gets about 5,000 views per match at most, so we're doing ok on Youtube.

"They don't host their own tournaments!" - well one, neither does anyone else. This isnt 2010, we dont have things like the EG Masters Cup anymore, we dont even have Acer Teamstory cup which is probably the most recent "team-run" tournament I can think of. What we do have of course are well, our tournaments, such as our inhouse LOTV mod tournament that we broadcast 3 months ago. Grand Final had over 50,000 people watching on Youtube plus many more on stream. Speaking of stream, did I mention we have one of the most popular SC2 streamers in the form of CranK who streams every day?

But wait, there's more! In order to further promote our players, we make sure to send at least one to pretty much every major international tournament in some way. Most recently, we had Ryung finish RO4 in Copenhagan Games, not a bad result for a player who is supposedly slumping aye? Naturally our players are also present in online events, playing 2 SHOUTcraft Clan Wars a month in front of a 50,000 strong audience, taking on all comers in the SC2Improve Teamleague (we're 7-1 in that btw, top of our division) and sending our players to compete in things like Olimoleague on a weekly basis. We're even a staple in 2v2 contests and recently won one. Look, I'll be the first to admit that we're not winning tournaments. That's my biggest concern right now, but surviving as a team isn't about winning tournaments. IM won loads of tournaments, that didn't save them. SlayerS won tons of tournaments, they disbanded. Azubu, STX Soul, Woongjin Stars, FXOpen, TSL, the list goes on and on. Surviving as a team isn't about winning tournaments, it's about staying relevant in the minds of viewers and the eyes of sponsors, which we do by producing content and making sure our guys are accessible and engage in fan outreach. It's a business like any other and surviving as a team for this long takes more than just winning a tournament here and there.

No though, you're right. Outside of a very successful Youtube channel, very successful live stream, ties to an even bigger successful Youtube channel, multiple team run tournaments and more combined social media presence than any other SC2 team that exists... oh and original video series and continued international tournament presence, Axiom doesn't even exist.

In reality, Axiom promotes itself better than almost any team in SC2, Korean or otherwise. Amongst the Koreans its no contest. Most of the KeSPA teams dont even have Youtube channels or regular streamers, they make very little effort to connect with foreign fans at all. Even when foreign teams do it they often do it to a much smaller audience than Axiom does, they dont have the established media connections. Really if there were two teams that did a better job of promoting their players and themselves, they would be EG and Liquid, but EG has shifted focus away from SC2, whereas Liquid of course has the premier SC2 website and is unlikely to ever be dislodged in terms of promotion. Outside of that, Axiom rules the roost when it comes to online media presence in SC2. That's why we get sponsors, that's why we have more sponsors than almost every Korean team and heck half the foreign teams too, we have a big media presence and a large fanbase. That's why we have sponsors whereas some other Korean teams dont. That's why we have yet more sponsors in the pipeline.

You were probably downvoted for being silly.

**
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
Bobbias
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1373 Posts
April 24 2015 10:47 GMT
#2
Reading 50k views as being good on Youtube makes me sad. It's a goddamn shame 50k is good for youtube, since there are quite a few youtubers where 50k would be underwhelming. Just puts things into perspective really.
LoneYoShi
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
France1348 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-24 10:58:22
April 24 2015 10:54 GMT
#3
Hello TB,

I'm not trying to spark an argument or w/e, but as a casual follower of sc2 (meaning I only follow the biggest tournaments really, and mostly the final phase), I did tend to agree with the reddit guy in thinking you are not the most visible of teams to the "casual follower" (meaning someone who tunes in for ro16+ of biggest tournaments only, does not really do much research into teams or check youtube).

Apparently I (and him) both missed a lot of stuff you guys do, so really thanks for clearing it up and summing everything up in this post ! I'll have to check your YT channel to watch some of the videos you described, seems like really cool stuff that I wasn't even aware of !

So yeah, keep doing what you do, apparently you're doing well ! :-)

Edit: clarifications.
Motlu
Profile Joined August 2014
Australia884 Posts
April 24 2015 10:55 GMT
#4
This blog was so very "TotalBiscuit".

Interesting though that I wasn't particularly aware of the Progamer vs videos, definitely going to check them out. It would be great if more teams could market themselves in a similar manner.
-
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
April 24 2015 10:57 GMT
#5
On April 24 2015 19:47 Bobbias wrote:
Reading 50k views as being good on Youtube makes me sad. It's a goddamn shame 50k is good for youtube, since there are quite a few youtubers where 50k would be underwhelming. Just puts things into perspective really.


For "Youtubers" it's not that high. For SC2, the only channel getting more views on SC2 than that is ESL. With Husky, HD and Day9 gone, SC2 on Youtube outside of tournament vods is dead.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
April 24 2015 11:01 GMT
#6
Pretty aggressive response for a question that wasn't phrased aggressively.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Creager
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1965 Posts
April 24 2015 11:04 GMT
#7
1 star for mr. condescending behaviour. Seriously, TB, stop being an immature douché, yes, you do a FANTASTIC job and are a real professional, you single-handedly saved SC2, but maybe your players should start delivering results, otherwise you'll forever be the "ex-Slayers" retirement home.
... einmal mit Profis spielen!
Bobbias
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1373 Posts
April 24 2015 11:05 GMT
#8
Yeah, I was referring to the whole Youtube ecosystem. I've always been sad that SC2 has so little presence on youtube, considering HD and Husky's videos in the beta were the first look I got at SC2. I still fondly remember watching those beta matches where nobody understood anything.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-24 11:08:46
April 24 2015 11:06 GMT
#9
I think if you get those kinds of questions, it's more that the content is not reaching certain people and could be an area to look into.

Seems a bit counter-intuitive to remove your account from Reddit, but then go to Team Liquid to answer angrily at Reddit comments; even when they're already downvoted and disapproved by the majority, saving you the effort and need to answer them.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
LoneYoShi
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
France1348 Posts
April 24 2015 11:07 GMT
#10
On April 24 2015 20:06 Torte de Lini wrote:
I think if you get those kinds of questions, it's more that the content is not reaching certain people and could be an area to look into.


It's what I tried to phrase, but you said it way better !
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-24 11:12:40
April 24 2015 11:08 GMT
#11
Wow. No way such a blog has earned being spotlighted. Absolutely no way. You're being a huge rude douche towards a guy who asked some question without implying anything really bad towards Axiom.
Bobbias
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1373 Posts
April 24 2015 11:11 GMT
#12
On April 24 2015 20:08 boxerfred wrote:
Wow. No way such a blog has earned being spotlighted. Absolutely no way.


It's featured, not spotlighted. Also, featured blogs are not individually selected. People who have a blog following, or important community members will have any blog they write featured. Every blog TB writes will show up in the featured section.
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
April 24 2015 11:12 GMT
#13
On April 24 2015 20:04 Creager wrote:
1 star for mr. condescending behaviour. Seriously, TB, stop being an immature douché, yes, you do a FANTASTIC job and are a real professional, you single-handedly saved SC2, but maybe your players should start delivering results, otherwise you'll forever be the "ex-Slayers" retirement home.


Or you could go fuck yourself.

Wonder why barely anybody of importance posts here anymore? Because everytime they take the time to share the facts of the industry they get shit on by mouthbreathers from the peanut gallery. Go away.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
April 24 2015 11:14 GMT
#14
On April 24 2015 20:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2015 20:04 Creager wrote:
1 star for mr. condescending behaviour. Seriously, TB, stop being an immature douché, yes, you do a FANTASTIC job and are a real professional, you single-handedly saved SC2, but maybe your players should start delivering results, otherwise you'll forever be the "ex-Slayers" retirement home.


Or you could go fuck yourself.

Wonder why barely anybody of importance posts here anymore? Because everytime they take the time to share the facts of the industry they get shit on by mouthbreathers from the peanut gallery. Go away.

Mods better take action now. It's enough. Barely anybody of importance? Well leave that site then and totally don't care for players, casters and personalities posting here. Ignore the beautiful work of TL strategy. Ignore quality recaps and previews. Just gtfo then.
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
April 24 2015 11:14 GMT
#15
On April 24 2015 20:08 boxerfred wrote:
Wow. No way such a blog has earned being spotlighted. Absolutely no way. You're being a huge rude douche towards a guy who asked some question without implying anything really bad towards Axiom.


Waaah waaaaaahhhhh, look at how sensitive we are.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-24 11:15:56
April 24 2015 11:15 GMT
#16
On April 24 2015 20:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2015 20:04 Creager wrote:
1 star for mr. condescending behaviour. Seriously, TB, stop being an immature douché, yes, you do a FANTASTIC job and are a real professional, you single-handedly saved SC2, but maybe your players should start delivering results, otherwise you'll forever be the "ex-Slayers" retirement home.


Or you could go fuck yourself.

Wonder why barely anybody of importance posts here anymore? Because everytime they take the time to share the facts of the industry they get shit on by mouthbreathers from the peanut gallery. Go away.


You can ban people from your blogs here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/myblog.php

Scroll down.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-24 11:17:17
April 24 2015 11:15 GMT
#17
On April 24 2015 20:14 boxerfred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2015 20:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On April 24 2015 20:04 Creager wrote:
1 star for mr. condescending behaviour. Seriously, TB, stop being an immature douché, yes, you do a FANTASTIC job and are a real professional, you single-handedly saved SC2, but maybe your players should start delivering results, otherwise you'll forever be the "ex-Slayers" retirement home.


Or you could go fuck yourself.

Wonder why barely anybody of importance posts here anymore? Because everytime they take the time to share the facts of the industry they get shit on by mouthbreathers from the peanut gallery. Go away.

Mods better take action now. It's enough. Barely anybody of importance? Well leave that site then and totally don't care for players, casters and personalities posting here. Ignore the beautiful work of TL strategy. Ignore quality recaps and previews. Just gtfo then.


Or we could just ban you from the blog so there's at least one place on TL where you can't follow me around being a gigantic douchebag.

Newsflash. Most of the players, casters and personalities left a long time ago and I imagine part of the reason is that being honest on this forum and not pretending that community members somehow know everything is a fucking sin that'll get you crucified.

Maybe if people resisted the urge to run their mouth and instead took some time to listen when people tell you things, they would know more.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
April 24 2015 11:16 GMT
#18
On April 24 2015 20:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2015 20:08 boxerfred wrote:
Wow. No way such a blog has earned being spotlighted. Absolutely no way. You're being a huge rude douche towards a guy who asked some question without implying anything really bad towards Axiom.


Waaah waaaaaahhhhh, look at how sensitive we are.

lol. are you 9 or something?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-24 11:19:27
April 24 2015 11:18 GMT
#19
On April 24 2015 20:16 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2015 20:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On April 24 2015 20:08 boxerfred wrote:
Wow. No way such a blog has earned being spotlighted. Absolutely no way. You're being a huge rude douche towards a guy who asked some question without implying anything really bad towards Axiom.


Waaah waaaaaahhhhh, look at how sensitive we are.

lol. are you 9 or something?


Says the guy coming into a personal blog to casterbash after 28,000 posts on this forum.

No really I have to wonder how oversensitive you would have to be to take offense to this blog. Holy shit, it is not even possible to post on TL anymore without someone bursting into tears over perceived slight.

You can ban people from your blogs here:

http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/myblog.php

Scroll down.


Oh we already have. Shame it also doesn't delete their shitty replies too.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
Bobbias
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada1373 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-24 11:20:46
April 24 2015 11:18 GMT
#20
On April 24 2015 20:16 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2015 20:14 TotalBiscuit wrote:
On April 24 2015 20:08 boxerfred wrote:
Wow. No way such a blog has earned being spotlighted. Absolutely no way. You're being a huge rude douche towards a guy who asked some question without implying anything really bad towards Axiom.


Waaah waaaaaahhhhh, look at how sensitive we are.

lol. are you 9 or something?


It's TB. He's salty because he has to deal with people who don't know jack speaking out their ass. I don't blame him for calling people out on it. Speak civilly and there's no problem. Be a dick and be prepared to be called out on it.

Seriously, look at all the bullshit responses TB gets. Half of them are likely just people looking to get that sweet sweet TB rage by trolling, and the other half is just people who don't understand how to communicate online without being a dick.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
20:00
WardiTV Not-Summer Championshi
ByuN vs Percival
Percival vs SHIN
Percival vs herO
ByuN vs SHIN
ByuN vs herO
SHIN vs herO
WardiTV805
IntoTheiNu 788
TaKeTV 253
Liquipedia
CranKy Ducklings
19:00
Master Swan Open #108 (SHIN Mod Edition)
CranKy Ducklings63
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 357
Lowko352
EmSc Tv 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34862
Soulkey 5012
Shuttle 1129
Horang2 946
Larva 647
FanTaSy 637
BeSt 323
Mini 314
actioN 262
Hyun 252
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 203
firebathero 202
Last 139
Zeus 137
Shinee 68
Mind 68
Sharp 59
910 52
Barracks 50
Bishop 45
ToSsGirL 35
Aegong 33
HiyA 33
Free 22
soO 14
Sacsri 13
Noble 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
scan(afreeca) 12
yabsab 8
Icarus 4
Dota 2
Gorgc6695
Dendi1135
Counter-Strike
zeus747
byalli576
Other Games
singsing2220
B2W.Neo965
DeMusliM365
Pyrionflax249
crisheroes239
Khaldor189
Beastyqt130
MindelVK15
Chillindude12
Organizations
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 17
EmSc2Tv 17
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP8
• Response 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
AI Arena Tournament
3h 8m
BSL Open Qualifier
6h 8m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
21h 8m
OSC
1d
IPSL
1d 3h
BSL Open Qualifier
1d 6h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 22h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
HCC Season 3
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.