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Beginning my journey to SPO16! - Page 2

Blogs > Ehzera
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Prev 1 2 All
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2685 Posts
March 23 2015 14:57 GMT
#21
On March 22 2015 23:24 GoTuNk! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 23:06 SolaR- wrote:
From my own experience, and from others like me, I can tell you that overtraining is real. It seems that people read Mark riptoe and take in everything he claims as 100%. Read some Stuart McRobert or Wesley Silveira work. It is not impossible to believe that there is genetic variation among people lol.

I have trained doing squats and bench 3 times a week eating on a perfect diet. I made decent gains at first but eventually I start degressing and lose progress or worse sustain an injury. Believe me I have tried similar routines over and over with the same result.

everyone does not have the genetics to be a completive powerlifter, weightlifter, or bodybuilder. Personally, I have the most gains from working out three days a week. Each day using one of the three major compound movements and adding a few other movements as well.


OP clearly states he wants to be a powerlifter.

I didn't read X,Y or Z, I have actual experience training, competing and coaching.
I've been a competetive powerlifter for 4 years with a 220/165/267 total at 83kg.

FWIW guys (and girls) at my CROSSFIT gym have very respectable totals in both PW/OL despite those being not their main activities, simply because they train every day and twice a day sometimes.
Power Lifters should stop making up excuses to be lazy and instead look at other athletes (WL and Crossfit) who do more in a week than the average powerlifter does in a month.

Gains are not linear forever, that you can't add weight to the bar at a certain point does not mean you are "overtrained"


sure you are stronger than me. I will give you that. It doesn't mean you are more knowledgeable than me. He wants to be a powerlifter yet he has only trained for 6 months. I think squatting and benching 3 times a week is a bad idea with the little experience he has. He should be doing a simple based power routine and go from there. If he can handle the heavier load than good for him.

the fact that you workout at cross fit and take advice from people there tells me you have a very warped view on the subject.

I respect your strength and I am not saying you know nothing on training. I am just saying that you seem very short sided and inflexible. Not everyone can train like a powerliftee especially doing the main compound movements three times a week. It is a simple fact.

I am not lazy at all, and the fact that you are insisting that is very insulting. Doing squats three times a week would make me lose gains not stagnate. Of course I don't expect to add pounds to the bar every visit but when you have to decrease significantly and start sustaining injury THAT is over training. Some people are "hardgainers" and I'm not saying the op is but I think he should take it slow first to understand his OWN limits.

I think this is a great routine to start from. Source: iron addict(Wesley silveira)
1st workout
Monday
Squat or box squat 2-3 x 5
Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs 3 x 10
Bent Row or Chest Supported row 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

2nd workout 1 day later
Wednesday
Bench Press or low board press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Skull Crushers 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10

3rd workout 1 day later
Friday
Deadlift or rack deadlift 2-3 x 5
Leg press 2 x 10
Chin or lat pull-down 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

4th workout After TWO DAYS OFF
Monday
Incline bench press or Incline Dumbbell Press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Tricep pushdowns 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10 Monday

next workout sequence repeat 1st through 4th workouts
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
March 23 2015 16:17 GMT
#22
On March 23 2015 23:57 SolaR- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 23:24 GoTuNk! wrote:
On March 22 2015 23:06 SolaR- wrote:
From my own experience, and from others like me, I can tell you that overtraining is real. It seems that people read Mark riptoe and take in everything he claims as 100%. Read some Stuart McRobert or Wesley Silveira work. It is not impossible to believe that there is genetic variation among people lol.

I have trained doing squats and bench 3 times a week eating on a perfect diet. I made decent gains at first but eventually I start degressing and lose progress or worse sustain an injury. Believe me I have tried similar routines over and over with the same result.

everyone does not have the genetics to be a completive powerlifter, weightlifter, or bodybuilder. Personally, I have the most gains from working out three days a week. Each day using one of the three major compound movements and adding a few other movements as well.


OP clearly states he wants to be a powerlifter.

I didn't read X,Y or Z, I have actual experience training, competing and coaching.
I've been a competetive powerlifter for 4 years with a 220/165/267 total at 83kg.

FWIW guys (and girls) at my CROSSFIT gym have very respectable totals in both PW/OL despite those being not their main activities, simply because they train every day and twice a day sometimes.
Power Lifters should stop making up excuses to be lazy and instead look at other athletes (WL and Crossfit) who do more in a week than the average powerlifter does in a month.

Gains are not linear forever, that you can't add weight to the bar at a certain point does not mean you are "overtrained"


sure you are stronger than me. I will give you that. It doesn't mean you are more knowledgeable than me. He wants to be a powerlifter yet he has only trained for 6 months. I think squatting and benching 3 times a week is a bad idea with the little experience he has. He should be doing a simple based power routine and go from there. If he can handle the heavier load than good for him.

the fact that you workout at cross fit and take advice from people there tells me you have a very warped view on the subject.

I respect your strength and I am not saying you know nothing on training. I am just saying that you seem very short sided and inflexible. Not everyone can train like a powerliftee especially doing the main compound movements three times a week. It is a simple fact.

I am not lazy at all, and the fact that you are insisting that is very insulting. Doing squats three times a week would make me lose gains not stagnate. Of course I don't expect to add pounds to the bar every visit but when you have to decrease significantly and start sustaining injury THAT is over training. Some people are "hardgainers" and I'm not saying the op is but I think he should take it slow first to understand his OWN limits.

I think this is a great routine to start from. Source: iron addict(Wesley silveira)
1st workout
Monday
Squat or box squat 2-3 x 5
Glute/Ham Raises or pullthroughs 3 x 10
Bent Row or Chest Supported row 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

2nd workout 1 day later
Wednesday
Bench Press or low board press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Skull Crushers 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10

3rd workout 1 day later
Friday
Deadlift or rack deadlift 2-3 x 5
Leg press 2 x 10
Chin or lat pull-down 4 x 6
Barbell or Dumbbell Curl 3 x 8
Calf Raises 3 x 15

4th workout After TWO DAYS OFF
Monday
Incline bench press or Incline Dumbbell Press 3 x 5, or 3 x 3
Dumbbell Bench Press 4 x 8
Military or Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8
Tricep pushdowns 3 x 10
Ab work 3 x 10 Monday

next workout sequence repeat 1st through 4th workouts


Yes, stronger people are generally more knowledable than their weaker counterparts because in weightlifting experience is king. People who read stuff and regurgitate what they read online provide very little insight to conversations.
That said, I've read several books, blogs and articles from various authors and accomplished lifters. A common theme you will find is that those who train more are generally the best, and that you should constantly aim to train more.

I stand but what I say, you can't be good at powerlifting if you do 15 squats and 15 benches a week, period. I'm not saying he should squat and bench thrice a week, just that begginers have the most gains from doing the main lifts and learning them.

I don't take advice from crossfiters, I usually give them advice. What they certainly demonstrate is that doing the main lifts and working hard is the key to sucess, despite their (sometimes) moronic programming, and more important, that the body can handle a shitload of training provided you have the right attitude and take care of yourself.

Crossfit introduced me into WL from which I take a lot of advice from though (basically how to stay healthy)

Skull crushers and leg presses are more likely to injure you than squatting or benching twice a week.


Ehzera
Profile Blog Joined August 2014
Singapore212 Posts
March 24 2015 04:18 GMT
#23
Hey Gotunk what do you think about doing power movements and barbell complexes as a sort of conditioning on rest days? Assuming that I'm eating + sleeping enough, I could add 2 conditioning days to my program and make it a decent 6 day split I think. If I were to include them, this would what my routine would look like I think:

+ Show Spoiler +
MONDAY - HEAVY LOWER

SQUAT 3X6
DEADLIFT 1X6
RDL 3X8
FRONT SQUAT 3X8

TUESDAY - HYPERTROPHY UPPER

BENCH 4X8
ROW 5X8
PRESS 4X8
PULLDOWN 4X8
CURL 3X8
TRICEP EXTENSION 3X8
FACEPULL 3X8

WEDNESDAY - POWER/CONDITIONING

POWER CLEAN 5X4
JERK 5X4
DB SNATCH 5X4
BB COMPLEX

THURSDAY - HYPERTROPHY LOWER

FRONT SQUAT 5X8
DEADLIFT 3X8
RDL 3X8
HAMSTRING CURL 3X12

FRIDAY - HEAVY UPPER

BENCH 3X6
ROW 5X6
PRESS 3X6
PULLDOWN 3X6
HAMMER CURL 3X8
TRICEP EXTENSION 3X8
FACEPULL 3X8

SATURDAY - POWER/CONDITIONING

POWER CLEAN 5X4
JERK 5X4
DB SNATCH 5X4
BB COMPLEX
“A tree without roots is just a piece of wood.” - Marco Pierre White
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
March 24 2015 13:03 GMT
#24
On March 24 2015 13:18 Ehzera wrote:
Hey Gotunk what do you think about doing power movements and barbell complexes as a sort of conditioning on rest days? Assuming that I'm eating + sleeping enough, I could add 2 conditioning days to my program and make it a decent 6 day split I think. If I were to include them, this would what my routine would look like I think:

+ Show Spoiler +
MONDAY - HEAVY LOWER

SQUAT 3X6
DEADLIFT 1X6
RDL 3X8
FRONT SQUAT 3X8

TUESDAY - HYPERTROPHY UPPER

BENCH 4X8
ROW 5X8
PRESS 4X8
PULLDOWN 4X8
CURL 3X8
TRICEP EXTENSION 3X8
FACEPULL 3X8

WEDNESDAY - POWER/CONDITIONING

POWER CLEAN 5X4
JERK 5X4
DB SNATCH 5X4
BB COMPLEX

THURSDAY - HYPERTROPHY LOWER

FRONT SQUAT 5X8
DEADLIFT 3X8
RDL 3X8
HAMSTRING CURL 3X12

FRIDAY - HEAVY UPPER

BENCH 3X6
ROW 5X6
PRESS 3X6
PULLDOWN 3X6
HAMMER CURL 3X8
TRICEP EXTENSION 3X8
FACEPULL 3X8

SATURDAY - POWER/CONDITIONING

POWER CLEAN 5X4
JERK 5X4
DB SNATCH 5X4
BB COMPLEX


I like power clean and snatches (I do them aswell). They are not for "conditioning" though, they are used to increase your strength on them. Use a barbell for snatches, not a db, and skip the complex.

To learn olympic lifting you really need someone somewhat competetent to teach you directly or at least online though.
Ehzera
Profile Blog Joined August 2014
Singapore212 Posts
March 24 2015 14:17 GMT
#25
How would you recommend learning the snatch and clean? Is there a recommended progression?
“A tree without roots is just a piece of wood.” - Marco Pierre White
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
March 24 2015 14:24 GMT
#26
On March 24 2015 23:17 Ehzera wrote:
How would you recommend learning the snatch and clean? Is there a recommended progression?


Ask on TL thread, we have 2 WL coaches actually lol. One helped me at the beggining
Ehzera
Profile Blog Joined August 2014
Singapore212 Posts
March 24 2015 15:07 GMT
#27
Okay, I posted a question there! Anyway, do you mind if I ask you a few questions?

1) Do you pull conventional or sumo?

2) Who would you recommend the different pulling styles to? I switched from conventional to sumo a month or so ago, and I managed to pull my current PR of 150kg compared to 125kg conventionally. Was I just not using my leverages enough? I don't really know HAHA, if you need to see a body shot of me to determine my pulling style I'd be happy to supply one

This is a video of my 150 pull btw, definitely not the greatest form:

+ Show Spoiler +


3) I did some hang cleans today to get a feel of the Oly lifts for the first time, how does it look?
Vid:
+ Show Spoiler +
“A tree without roots is just a piece of wood.” - Marco Pierre White
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
March 24 2015 15:44 GMT
#28
Conventional. Did sumo for a while but stuck with coventional.

There are no leverages to determine style, you style is the one that allows you to lift more weight. Thar said, keep doing conventional aswell since you are still a begginer.

Hang cleaning 40kg is not a challenge so can't really say anything, you are pulling with ur arms instead of your legs and back but that is very common for noobs. Having bumpers and being able to drop the weight safely would help you a lot in the long run I think (together with decent bars, I bet those bars don't spin much)
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
March 25 2015 01:21 GMT
#29
I pulled my greatest weight doing conventional -- 585 lbs for 8 reps rest paused.

Now I pull sumo, but that's mostly because I have a torn hip labrum, and the conventional style pulls a bit more on the hip. The best deadlifter in the world pulls sumo, but many people pull conventional. I think it's mostly personal preference, but I think novices should probably learn to pull conventional if they are healthy.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Ehzera
Profile Blog Joined August 2014
Singapore212 Posts
March 30 2015 05:57 GMT
#30
New blog here: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/481623-week-1-road-to-sg-powerlifting-open-16-spo16

“A tree without roots is just a piece of wood.” - Marco Pierre White
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