|
Why.
I believe that the interval between the age of 20 and 30 is the time to do the things you've always wanted to do, make your dreams come true and have the most awesome social experiences without the immature need to waste yourself with alcohol and drug overdoses. It's also a productive time to grow, connect and manifest your potential, making the world better and reaping the benefits
That Michael from Vsauce-youtube guy talked about how the capacity to process new experiences fades over time. He illustrates this with a hypothetical scale saying that during your 30th year of life you roughly process 1/30th of the amount you process during your 1st year. 1/60th when you're 60 and so on. + Show Spoiler [scale] +1st year = max; 2nd year = max/2; 3rd year = max/3; ... 60th = max/60
So if a day is 1/365 year you could say that a day during your first year of life equates to roughly a month when you're 30 (1months = 1/12 year; 1/12*1/30 = 1/360. The older you get the smaller the impact of new information on your psyche until it's virtually neglectable
And that's why time seems to have flown by when you're old as fuck.
Suppose this is true think of how tragically our system sux, with regard to the pension system. You work your ass off while the government steals 1/3 of your income until you're about 65, just so you can salvage some of that money when you're too worn out to even do something memorable with it.
What.
That's why I want to revolutionize the system and I'm hoping you do too after you've heard my proposal.
How.
The proposal
Starting from when you turn 30 you get instructed in a profession and you'll work until the day you die (reasonable working hours + holidays). You get to keep 50% of your income, while the government takes the rest. You don't get to choose what your work consists of, but if you are talented at something or have acquired useful knowledge in a particular field it will come in handy. As you get older your line of work will change to something less demanding. At any given time the only alternative to being employed is imminent death.
Prior to reaching 30 you are free from any obligations whatsoever, furthermore between the age of 20 - 30, 15-18, 10-12 and 5-6 you receive a generous basic monthly allowance, the equivalent to a relatively well-paid job.
Education is optional. You attend school only to increase your 20-30 allowance. The educational system is working side by side with the government and private sector to fine-tune the evaluation criteria to suit future job requirements (when you turn 30). The higher your grades the more likely it is for you to be able to handle more sophisticated jobs, the more you get invested in.. up to 9x the basic allowance. Because fowl play has a pretty big impact in this anyone caught cheating or accepting bribes will be sentenced to working-in-the-sewers/with-trash type of labor (once they turn 30) or death respectively.
-------------------------------------------
Comments
My main focus is the timespan between the ages 20-30 because when you're younger you're too stupid to do anything meaningful with money and when you're older the scale starts to kick in hard and your experiences loose the impact to shape your identity. So, do you want to join the 20-30 year old movement?
 
|
You call taxes "stealing", yet you want people to get a generous amount of money without working for it? You want to live 35 years without having a say in where you at? You want education to be optional for minors? You think there is job for everyone, or everyone that can't be assigned a job due to shortage of jobs has to die? Have you thought this through?
|
You got that from a guy on youtube? I'm not saying he is wrong, but you may want multiple perspectives on this. You're not dead after 30...
|
I suspect this little philosophy of yours will experience some major tectonic changes once you get into your 30s :D
For quite a lot of people, 20-30 is actually the lamest part of their life looking back. You're no longer a carefree child, and you're also not a fully realized adult yet, so it's easy to lose direction and get stuck in a limbo.
It pretty much seems like the worst time to have free resources available and nothing productive to do (in fact, once you get out of high school, that's almost never good for you on a personal growth / life satisfaction level). If you look at outrageously spoiled people this is the period where things start going downhill for them. That's because learning to endure hardships and invest effort in something in return for long-term results is one of the basic lessons you need to experience to become successful at anything.
Also, some of your other ideas are ridiculously radical lol. A system where everyone needs to follow some sort of predetermined plan is pretty much a totalitarian one in practice, and that doesn't sound like much fun.
P.s. nobody is forcing you to pay social security. You can always become a hermit, or a MMA fighter, or a pro poker player, or a gigolo. The world is full of wonderful opportunities!
|
Your plan is an amazingly naive attempt to control and make sense of a very complicated and chaotic system. Your system would work well in a sci-fi novel or film. Not in the real world.
I would not want to join your movement. And if it ever got traction, I would gladly contribute funds to your anti-party because your ideas are toxic, dangerous, and a sure fire road to ruin for any society that decides to implements it.
|
from 0-18 an individual contributes nothing to society. Your parents have probably worked hard to feed and cloth you, and society at large probably pays for your education and any public works you utilize. Think of everything modern society provides you - bottled water, clothes, electricity, good food - its time to start giving back. Free ride is over. It's not as bad as you'd think and you may even make a good bit of money and be able to do things your really like.
tldr:
Get a job
|
Is this the movie Divergent?
|
On October 19 2014 08:38 Kickboxer wrote:
I suspect this little philosophy of yours will experience some major tectonic changes once you get into your 30s :D
For quite a lot of people, 20-30 is actually the lamest part of their life looking back. You're no longer a carefree child, and you're also not a fully realized adult yet, so it's easy to lose direction and get stuck in a limbo.
It pretty much seems like the worst time to have free resources available and nothing productive to do (in fact, once you get out of high school, that's almost never good for you on a personal growth / life satisfaction level). If you look at outrageously spoiled people this is the period where things start going downhill for them. That's because learning to endure hardships and invest effort in something in return for long-term results is one of the basic lessons you need to experience to become successful at anything.
Also, some of your other ideas are ridiculously radical lol. A system where everyone needs to follow some sort of predetermined plan is pretty much a totalitarian one in practice, and that doesn't sound like much fun.
P.s. nobody is forcing you to pay social security. You can always become a hermit, or a MMA fighter, or a pro poker player, or a gigolo. The world is full of wonderful opportunities!
This is well said.
I would add that many people would become depressed having nothing like a pension to look out for.
|
+ Show Spoiler [My response to comments] +Comparison to totalitarianism, strawman-style exaggerations, arguments that ignore context and personal psychological profiling are indeed very predictable responses. I'm not looking for people like that anyway. Wouldn't mind having them as my enemies either, as it polarizes functional from redundant and makes my striving even more righteous and victory even more glorious.
Sun Tzu said a general must throw his army in a situation that makes retreat impossible in order for it to unleash it's full strength. One needs a now or never point in his life, in order to have a chance at scoring high on the highscore of life.
Making that point last 10 years by rechanneling one's resources and complementarilly relieving one of responsibilities is a good idea.
On October 19 2014 08:38 Kickboxer wrote:
I suspect this little philosophy of yours will experience some major tectonic changes once you get into your 30s :D
For quite a lot of people, 20-30 is actually the lamest part of their life looking back. You're no longer a carefree child, and you're also not a fully realized adult yet, so it's easy to lose direction and get stuck in a limbo.
It pretty much seems like the worst time to have free resources available and nothing productive to do (in fact, once you get out of high school, that's almost never good for you on a personal growth / life satisfaction level). If you look at outrageously spoiled people this is the period where things start going downhill for them. That's because learning to endure hardships and invest effort in something in return for long-term results is one of the basic lessons you need to experience to become successful at anything.
Also, some of your other ideas are ridiculously radical lol. A system where everyone needs to follow some sort of predetermined plan is pretty much a totalitarian one in practice, and that doesn't sound like much fun.
P.s. nobody is forcing you to pay social security. You can always become a hermit, or a MMA fighter, or a pro poker player, or a gigolo. The world is full of wonderful opportunities!
The goal is to maximize exposure to-, and meaning of life by rechanneling resources. A process which once initiated perpetuates and integrates itself in an evolving and symbiotic way.
Making 20-30 the highlight of life rearranges the priorities for maximum impact and control. Like a well-timed attack/push just when your upgrades and researches finish in starcraft you have a higher chance of tackling apathy, disorientation and depression that are most often side-effects of a necessary imperfection as the world's core. Education can thus be transformed into a personal striving for knowledge, nurturing and evoking a paradigm where the winning strategy becomes enhancing the ability to pick out for yourself what you need to grow and throw yourself in a medium where you can achieve it interactively and consciously.
Like everything else society can assimilate this into it's fabric and make the best of it, while keeping collateral damage to a minimum.
The patterns which stem from this intellectual artifact may seem outrageous when applied singularly or even as a whole but to a static concept of reality, but they are working when applied as an integer semi-open system in a self-repairing and evolving reality. I'm interested in people who can assimilate the whole package and run it in mental simulations not just templates to dress up reality with.
P-edit People are depressed now with a pension to look forward to, how do you explain that?
|
I agree with some of your overlying concept. Even though it's (for the time being) inevitable, I think the "order" of life as it stands is lame. You get some free years in your teens, but by the time you start hitting your 20s one is basically either work/school full time, and you continue to do so during your best years of life, having to spend huge portions of your life working in something that ranges anywhere from tolerable to absolute shit. Yes, a few people actually enjoy their jobs, but they are a very, very rare minority.
So bottom line is you spend most of your good years having to waste massive amounts of time on something you don't enjoy, just so that as you retire you're entering your late 50s/60s twilight years. Now most people that take care of themselves will still be plenty active in their mid 50s and 60s, but let's not kid anyone...someone who is 60 is, physically, but a mere specter or their former self at 30. By the time you hit 70s it's the rare person that isn't slowing down and spending a majority of their time around the neighborhood or house.
Now, this isn't something worth getting flustered about, because there is no realistic way to "fix" the problem. Sadly there is no way to shift the work curve by 10-20 years so that one gets there peak years free, and then spend the remainder of their life working.
@OPs Ideas - First off, I can't see this working economically. You want to pay every person, for 19 years, the equivalent of a well paying job (say 50k per year)? There just isn't going to be the money to do that, even taking 50% out of everyone's income.
One a conceptual level I wouldn't have huge problems with the idea, except for the "You don't get to choose what your work consists of" clause. Sorry, but fuck that. Admittedly, most people don't actually enjoy their job, but they have two things going for them that your system doesn't:
1) They can change jobs if they decide it sucks
2) They have at least some chance of actually finding a job they enjoy.
I'm sorry, it's not worth getting a little more money in my teens and having my twenties free with the risk of getting stuck with a shitty or mediocre line of work for the next 30+ years. I doubt I'm alone when I say people are going balk hard at that notion.
We're stuck with what we have now until our understanding of biology, genetics, and the requisite technology starts coming around to dramatically extend lifespans and reduce/eliminate aging.
|
You should read:
Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis
Ludwig von Mises
The book demonstrates some of the practical difficulties of organizing and executing any planned central system. The underlying "philosophy" of any economic system is necessarily moot if it cannot be executed in the real world. Regardless of whether or not your underlying philosophical stance is valid or not, it is economically infeasible. That's the problem with most college idealists. They have lofty beliefs based off of some simple linear a->b logic but are wholly impotent when it comes to executing it in a viable and sustainable way in the real world.
|
<marquee>
You don't choose the job
The job chooses you
</marquee>
Transparent necessity dictates what needs to be done, crystalizes the preference as to by whom and the level of compensation depending on supply of workforce for the task, like the stock market. The more people are qualified to do the job the less it pays. This encourages youngsters and even workers to strive to acquire unique talents that are useful enough to be demanded regularly. Being able to follow trends in real time enables them to predict and aim for a niche of personal success.
It is possible to suggest a demand (a job) and if it makes evolutionary sense it will get selected for implementation. The philosophy is to accomplish a task / fill a hole as fast and with as few jobs as possible. A tendency of falling demand for jobs in the classical sense brings with it "breathing space" to do artistic/aesthetic or otherwise creativity-oriented work.
Everything is overseeable, compact and responding to new challenges intelligently and with common-sense prioritization.
No hierarchies unless indispensable for performance.
The job you currently do doesn't necessarily define your cognitive capacities, even a genius or specialist will experience having to do "lesser" work once in a while when his area of expertise isn't in demand, but not nearly as often as laymen.
There's no way you get stuck with a job you don't like for the rest of your life.
Qualifications and Education
The current system grades your ability to short-term assimilate slices of information that is more often than not lacking the continuity of an occasion to apply it, often presented in an unintuitive, disconnected manner inside the vicinity of a place that doesn't exactly foster well-being and concentration. A school is a stressful place that feeds you a hotchpotch of queries that you are advised to comply to with the according mix of various forms of cognitive processes as to not get scrutinized by teachers, classmates and guardians.
Instead of this education should be focused on understanding the underlying principles of working mechanisms and their application, steps on a continuous quest to be able to understand, think and do more. That's why you don't gather in classes but instead inquire skilltrees, visit workshops and consult specialists as you progress. Each facility or person of interest issues a requirement like a demonstration of knowledge/ability which if met unlock it's doors. Access to a facility also means access to it's libraries, restaurants, scientific reasearch-, productiion-, healthcare-, fitness and leisure facilities etc. so that's an additional motivating factor.
The list of qualifications that is fed to the job calculator is basically your portfolio of acquired access to locked stages of information hubs or even contributions to expansions through research.
|
No struggle, no growth. No responsibility, no struggle.
|
On October 20 2014 08:15 Mstring wrote:
No struggle, no growth. No responsibility, no struggle.
This imo. The reason why achieving your dreams or getting a dream job is so satisfying is because it is usually at the end of personal struggle or obtained by taking risk. Your system basically undermines this since there is no risk or struggle to get what you want. Probably worse still is that your system takes away the satisfaction of whatever meaning you find in the 20-30 period, by assigning you a job you have no say in. So people going into the 20-30 period know it's temporary and aren't going to be inclined to do anything long term.
|
On October 20 2014 09:17 levelping wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2014 08:15 Mstring wrote:
No struggle, no growth. No responsibility, no struggle. This imo. The reason why achieving your dreams or getting a dream job is so satisfying is because it is usually at the end of personal struggle or obtained by taking risk. Your system basically undermines this since there is no risk or struggle to get what you want. Probably worse still is that your system takes away the satisfaction of whatever meaning you find in the 20-30 period, by assigning you a job you have no say in. So people going into the 20-30 period know it's temporary and aren't going to be inclined to do anything long term.
You should seek knowledge, vitality, connectivity and functionality not dream jobs. Also retrospectively contemplating struggle is not rewarding, progress is. Progress is growth. The notion that growth stems from struggle is an illusion fed to the exploited. Struggle is a mere shadow of a defective, out-of-synch instrument of measuring growth. It is advisable to replace it with access to possibilities (see Education)
The movement will have to struggle extra with masochists, who falsely assume that taking 30 years of crap will give them satisfaction when in their 40s, impotent and grumpy, they finally reach a place where they would've loved to be when in their 20s, when they still had hair. These people know there is nothing left so they loose the ability to empathize with those who immerse themselves passionately in the new. They wind up lying to themselves; driven by anxiety they overestimate their freedoms and underestimate others'. They act reckless alpha, look down and belittle others because they supposedly had it so hard, they tell themselves these mantras over and over until they can use it to shut down critique. People comply and let this interfere with their psyche because that's how mammals are wired. If you act like the man, and everyone else is herded into accepting it then you are the man, regardless of how bad you are for the tribe because the dumb asskissers will get special treatment for soothing your anxiety, and the skillful and curious get ostracized until they are encouraged to retard their momentum and convert to asskissing over the loneliness alternative. They get bitter and you let masochism inception happen because you're a fucktard.
Don't get me wrong, the 20-30 system doesn't render current norm-scenarios impossible. There'll still be people like that, however chances are they'll be more competent and their potential disciples will be shielded from the paralyzing effects of their toxic false pride. Nevertheless they'll still have the option to establish circle-jerk clubs around their supposed glorious overcoming of their struggles, where good-ol`-days talk can flourish and where personal growth and the notion of getting things done as efficiently as possible will be taboo.
|
Let's be honest though, even though aspects of your movement sound appealing, it won't ever get off the ground. I'd happily bet you that we solve this issue via cessation of aging through technological/biological advances (next 50-100 years most likely) before we manage it through some revamp of the system.
You should seek knowledge, vitality, connectivity and functionality not dream jobs
Playing a little devil's advocate here because I generally agree, but on what do you base the "should" part of the claim. That sounds like a personal opinion of yours, but telling other people what the ought to do generally requires some rational as to why that's a good thing, which wasn't provided
The movement will have to struggle extra with masochists, who falsely assume that taking 30 years of crap will give them satisfaction when in their 40s, impotent and grumpy, they finally reach a place where they would've loved to be when in their 20s, when they still had hair. These people know there is nothing left
Woah now, to say their is nothing left when you are in your 40s is more than just a bit overstated. You're far from cooked at that point unless you were just unlucky in the genetic lottery or treated your body like total shit.
|
@L_Master Overpopulation is already an issue, and the scale says that the amount of new experience you can gain in your 1000th year is the equivalent of 1/1000th of your first year at best. I'm not saying you won't some day be able to boost your psyche's ability to keep it together but you won't be human (a success story) in the classical sense anymore, which opens Pandora's box to all sorts of potential fuckups evolution hasn't prepared you for.
I was suggesting that those things might be > dream job. The time frame in which people ceased being hunters and gatherers up to the point when they started farming, building cities and slavery/working for currency was too short to make working for anything other than survival and immediate welfare a skill that is "approved" by nature in the long run. I believe I have come up with a context where the concept of work is safe, incorruptible and quarantined but left with some room to figure out its place. As it is people feel like they are doing good work for their countries, faiths, shifty corporations, corrupt public offices, greedy oligarchs while wars, famine and peculiar diseases linked to cannibalism break out on the other side of the globe. You could say a Retrovirus' dream job is to enslave as many bodies as possible to produce its components and multiply. Like some people pursuing dream jobs they (retroviridae) helped evolution along (overcoming the boundaries of mitotic cell division and sexual conception as means of transmitting beneficial genetic mutations). But lately they are just abrasive (and reckless).
When 40 y old you don't get much encouragement to hope to learn a fresh new set of skills that will revolutionize your professional daily sequence of events in a drastic manner. But you're absolutely right, physiologically you would be able to, but only with favorable surroundings. Do you know someone who has an idea how one could imbue the world with such unorthodox fillip. Hint
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
