On January 10 2014 22:58 Pangpootata wrote: While I agree with your main point that bad manners is detrimental to a community, I can't agree with most of your arguments. Are you seriously telling me that you would be affected by what some random faceless person over the internet has to say about you? If you do, then you probably have some insecurities that you need to work on first before venturing into the dark depths of the internet.
That being said, it is obvious that for a person to get worked up to the point of flaming someone over the internet due to frustration over a loss, he definitely has certain ego issues. What you need to do is chill out and come up with entertaining ways to deal with such individuals. I usually play minigames with them. I make them perform tasks such as telling me a good joke that makes me laugh in exchange for me leaving and letting him have the win. Some of them actually end up begging me to let them win and coming up with some sad stories of how badly they need the ladder points (some guy actually told me ladder was his life). Of course, I actually do give them the win if I find them worthy.
Honestly, it doesn't bother me much because I know those insults are a result of some kind of frustration, whatever. But I'm also pretty mature and understanding now. There are a lot of people who cannot handle things like this as well as me, many younger and/or more emotionally unstable people. Either way, the point is that these things are completely unacceptable to say, and we shouldn't make it acceptable because it's "the dark depths of the internet, get over it scrub, lolololol." People on the other side of the internet are not "random faceless people", they are REAL people.
On January 11 2014 00:45 FFW_Rude wrote: And John... no, it's not Protoss. It's every race because there is a lot of dumb people on the internet. And it's not Starcraft. It's everywhere. I really would like the companies that manage online communities to have more aggressive stance about this.
I understand. But the weird racial thing we've got going on in SC2 is ruining the community for a lot of people I know. A lot of people I've talked to tell me things like, "I just can't stand the cesspool that is ladder anymore...too much rage, so much random shit." Maybe we can't really do anything for ladder, I don't know. It's just really distressing seeing so much division within our own community based solely on a bunch of tryhards' inability to win.
On January 10 2014 19:17 Staboteur wrote: I had made a rage post about how this concept frustrates the crap out of me, but it was pretty negative and not all that productive, so let's try this again.
My winrates for the three matchups I played against were roughly 55%, 70%, and 30%. This means that every time I started up a ladder game of SC2, there was a 1/3 chance I'd get a matchup that I did not know how to win (And I had a team and a practice buddy of that race, so it wasn't for lack of practice) and a 1/3rd chance I'd get a matchup I'd slaughter in.
It's easy to like a game you've got a 70% chance to win.
It's really, REALLY hard to like a game you've got a 70% chance to lose.
There is no way that those statistics are no frustrating, and even though the game is balanced as a whole, this only means that there's someone out there with my winrates, inverted, and they hate my 70% matchup as much as I hate theirs.
What, in that event, do you suggest you do to be productive and stay positive about Sc2? Ultimately, that one matchup is what killed it for me, and while it never drove me to the point of telling someone to go die, there is no denying that there was some major frustration there (I mean, hell, it still persists...). It's a fine notion to suggest that you try make that beautiful. I'm curious what your suggestions would be on how to do so.
The short of it: you need to cool down and stop focusing on winning and just enjoy the game some lol. Seriously, just offrace some, refine a couple of cheeses or silly all-in strategies for your losing matchup. Play some customs, do other productive things within the community. Your existence in SC2 doesn't have to all come down to whether you win or lose games.
If you want advice on how to improve, that's a different story. I spent almost a month or two trying to figure out colossus openings in PvT, and it still just never made sense to me, despite having the entire build laid out until the 16:00 mark. It just didn't click for me. However, I switched to a templar style of PvT and my statistics have shot through the roof. When I was really really terrible at PvZ and couldn't make any headway, I just learned a few 2-base robo all-ins and worked on refining them: huge difference. I've even played a straight week of 6pools one time when I was at a brick wall and wanted to work on some fundamentals. A lot of times it's simply about changing your mindset and trying something totally different from what you're doing currently. Find your own way to play. Come up with strategies that work for you, at your skill level, against your own opponents.
Really John.. There is no racial thing on ladder...
Play Zerg you will see a lot of Zerg OP, Winfestor, GGlords (yeah those are still a thing on ladder). You can even see things like : Raoches OP (yeah... and in TvZ too). Play Terran and you will get imba mules, marines OP (yeah). "Drops are stupid with the speed boost".
What is happening is bandwagoning. I make fun of protoss in the LRSL thread for example because it's funny to people in there (and it's quite light as you can really write any unit in a sentence).
In this community we have a lot of people that don't even have HotS and say Protoss is OP or something like that. I somtimes talk with my coworker and they talk about OPeness in Protoss because that's what they read (they do not play the game and they do not watch tournaments)
I'm not sure what you want to say ? Because i understand that you mix things with SC2/Protoss and Threatening talking. I really am with you on the later. But SC2/Protoss is quite irrelevant in this discussion (it's my opinion) because you can switch to another game and have the same thing (i have no other examples that comes to mind sorry )
I feel i'm kind of aggressive in my words (dunno why) but really i'm not. Just friendly discussing
You know I agree, in principle certain things are not acceptable. Its the same thing as calling someone a "nigger" as was done infamously in the past by certain celebrities in SC2, to a certain minority in the world it can be highly offensive and have a more serious psychological impact. For someone who is suicidal in their daily life telling them to go kill themselves is obviously something that might be particularly hurtful.
Unfortunately your post is likely not going to be noticed by the masses who play SC2 and interact on different forums, or those who don't go on forums at all. In theory though, I think we generally support your post - it would be a better world if people didn't insult people so harshly over a video game loss.
But I guess it also speaks to just how frustrating the game is that this stuff occurs. Maybe the people who say it are just insensitive, but they may also be so overwhelmingly angry (its not uncommon to read blog posts about how SC2 creates a lot of hatred in people to the point where it ruins parts of their lives) that these types of reactions are the only outlet for their rage. From that perspective we have a more serious problem that won't be fixed by what amounts to a superficial request to be nicer. This is of course impossible to solve for any of us...but then again it seems impossible to solve even if this isn't the case and we just want the gaming community to be more sensitive. In any case, I theoretically agree with you
I should guess that the majority of these posts come from angry sixteen year olds. Hell, I remember what being sixteen was like. Also, at that time you haven't quite figured out what things come across like and how much nicer life is when you're more relaxed and don't take everything personal. Saying stfu n00b seems like a fun or normal thing to say if you see other people do it. I used to be mad and flame back, but then it occured to me that I was insulting pimpled teenagers that have no chance with girls at all (and wouldn't know if they did) and then I stopped. (btw, this is not meant to insult them, that's pretty much the basic experience of teenagers, right?)
you think protoss gets raged on? Try meching as a terran player and instead of getting a "gg" after a 1 hour game you get a "go die" or "your a joke" or something like that
instead of trying to convince people not to rage or to change their gaming mindset just change yours
and give less fucks :D
it's kind of an idealist point of view to think people everywhere are going to start being nice ideally it would be great, but sadly marijuana is illegal is a lot of countries
it's better to train yourself for the real world and just decide not to care about what people say
On January 10 2014 22:58 Pangpootata wrote: While I agree with your main point that bad manners is detrimental to a community, I can't agree with most of your arguments. Are you seriously telling me that you would be affected by what some random faceless person over the internet has to say about you? If you do, then you probably have some insecurities that you need to work on first before venturing into the dark depths of the internet.
That being said, it is obvious that for a person to get worked up to the point of flaming someone over the internet due to frustration over a loss, he definitely has certain ego issues. What you need to do is chill out and come up with entertaining ways to deal with such individuals. I usually play minigames with them. I make them perform tasks such as telling me a good joke that makes me laugh in exchange for me leaving and letting him have the win. Some of them actually end up begging me to let them win and coming up with some sad stories of how badly they need the ladder points (some guy actually told me ladder was his life). Of course, I actually do give them the win if I find them worthy.
So your answer to people having insecurities is not play online and then... play alone ? That does not makes sense. It's the same in real life. there is fragile people. People than can just take a entire bottle of pills because their boss are making a living hell out of them. You do not bully or insult random people in life. You shouldn't do it in Sc too. If i understand correctly. That was his point.
EDIT : Woops sorry i thought i hit edit
I did not say that. I can understand people being affected by what someone in real life does. Your example is a false analogy, because a boss making a living hell for someone is able to disrupt the person's daily routine and put stress on the person. But for some faceless person over the internet who is incapable of doing anything to you except send lines of texts? I just don't see how people can care enough about random internet strangers to be personally affected by that.
If someone beat me in ping-pong, I would tell that asshole off. I'd be saying shit about his family and friends, and making personal threats, and I would make a voodoo doll of them and put pins into it every day, especially around the genitals.
On January 11 2014 07:05 mizU wrote: instead of trying to convince people not to rage or to change their gaming mindset just change yours
and give less fucks :D
it's kind of an idealist point of view to think people everywhere are going to start being nice ideally it would be great, but sadly marijuana is illegal is a lot of countries
it's better to train yourself for the real world and just decide not to care about what people say
I think you're missing the point of my post. My post is exactly about this bullshit "give less fucks" attitude that allows anyone to say anything on the internet because "it's the internet" and everyone else is a "random, faceless person". I don't honestly give a fuck that that kid said that to me personally. But that kind of behavior is completely unacceptable. Multiplied by a thousand (or probably more), and you have a cancerous behavior destroying what could be a really beautiful fellowship of gamers.
Why would you wish death or horrible things on a person you don't even know? My point here is: your behavior on the internet DOES matter. The people on the receiving end of these asinine comments are real people, and saying things like that is not only incredibly rude, it's completely psychopathic and unacceptable behavior.
While this is hilarious and made me laugh a good chunk, the part about "winning being fun" vs "gameplay being fun" made me think. I recently started thinking about it, and came to the conclusion that my in-game rage, while not as severe as the OP brought up, comes from a simple fact, that this whole pallette of emotions that the game invokes within me, bits of happiness, frustration, hate, rage, fury, suprise, joy, fun, become incredibly condensed in that one tiny moment of the end screen appearing. Because I'm pretty sure that for me the outcome of an activity outweights any feelings from the activity itself so severely, that the activity becomes almost irrelevant in comparison. Quick example would be me going through all my online games in quick succession, just to find a win, no matter in which. Not trying to excuse myself, just wanted to take part in the discussion since it hits pretty close to home
Don't force yourself to play and get frustrated and upset. Enjoy the game. It's a game.
Having said that, I would just mute opponents if it's getting to you since most won't likely stop cursing and won't follow the above advice. I guess I'm lucky since I've only been cursed several times over 1000 games that I've played lol.
I don't know if it relates but I remember when I was iccuping... in the lowly D- ranks... barely getting into D from time to time, only to get knocked back down 10x faster, getting raped by 2 gate, proxy templar archives into DT, 9 pool speed, 2 hatch lurks, 4 pool occasionally... plenty of other "cheesy" openings and strats that stopped me from gaining "late game" experience or management... really, I was thankful.
Sure sometimes it could be annoying in the sense of "I scouted his 5 pool and blocked it, I scouted his expo time, okay I'm way ahead, okay he's going 2 hatch lair, probably lurkers, okay scan for the den, oh shi----" *cue 30 speedlings and 4 lurkers running into my 1 bunker nat with like 1 control group of marines because I couldn't macro for shit.* Even then though it wasn't a situation where I didn't have respect for my opponent. I would just be frustrated at my own lack of skill.
Eventually, as I became more experienced, I learned how to scout, react to, and stop such strats. If you want to be a good player you have to react to every possible situation. Granted BW and SC2 are different games but I would just /dnd and work on my management/scouting.
There's no reason to rage and there's no reason to worry about raging. You're teaching them how the game works, if anything they should be thankful to you . It's their choice to get better or to give up. A good macro strategy with scouting can always stop a cheese if you have the right execution.
SC2John, your'e an SC2BALLER!!!!! I agree with you.
The way that I see it is that if you think it's okay to BM people, or tell them to kill themselves and do anything you can to make their life slightly shittier then you need to talk to someone. It's messed up.
how sad it is that in 2014 so many people lack any sense of solidarity or history
the mere fact that some of you think one has to be affected directly by this problem to type in this thread or make statements in twitch chats or on forums more generaly, makes our point for us
i don't personnaly care that i get insulted online by juvenile no lifers, but i care deeply about other people who have been hurt and their increasing number.
hence i will repeat again and again the way people respect each other in gaming chats or on forums is important, it shapes everything else in your lifes
edit ps: ty sc2john for fighting the good fight, tl lurker heaven is what it is, every lil bit of sane constructive people posting about this issue matters ; vocal wannabe trollers do not rule anything else than their own brain, and then again not even that
EPT
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