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On December 21 2013 01:55 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Jimmy I don't really have to back up anything and I certainly don't have time to. The only evidence you need is to see the numbers every single week on these events. The numbers suck, simple as that.
Go and look up the events on fuzic.nl and you will see how low the numbers are
This is why I lovehate you. You're doing so much for esports, and you're able to have an argumentation in such a great way - and then, you just pull a 3-liner in reply to some guy who tried to have a serious conversation with you. Which is poor 
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Alright since I'm from EU I can't buy into Ting (I do remember how awesome TUCOWS was) but maybe we can help by giving more exposure by liking facebook (similar as to what Take does) or #ting #shoutcraft on twitter.
Also you forget a major selling point which is the demographic. You may not reach alot but you are reaching the right people (not some random cross population bunch).
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On December 22 2013 23:49 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2013 01:55 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Jimmy I don't really have to back up anything and I certainly don't have time to. The only evidence you need is to see the numbers every single week on these events. The numbers suck, simple as that.
Go and look up the events on fuzic.nl and you will see how low the numbers are This is why I lovehate you. You're doing so much for esports, and you're able to have an argumentation in such a great way - and then, you just pull a 3-liner in reply to some guy who tried to have a serious conversation with you. Which is poor
But TB is right. What else is there to say? You want a 5-page exposition on why their numbers suck, and how it would never work?
Seriously. What am I missing here?
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I really like the insight from the sponsor and this analysis/breakdown as a whole is pretty cool to read. In terms of the whole ROI thing (obviously important if you want future events to be put on) yeah I guess it is pretty lacklustre. However when you take other things into consideration, such as the fact that only 35% of the audience can actually contribute to that ROI and the first day was a bit of a flop in terms of things going to plan, then I think those results actually aren’t too shabby. Rome wasn’t built in a day and these things take time to gain traction, thankfully it seems Ting is very enthusiastic about this and can recognise the emergent potential as well as the urgent issues.
I think a supporting international sponsor is a no-brainer, given the large portion of your audience you’re missing out on. Not sure how happy Ting will be to split their advertising time but who knows.
On December 19 2013 05:01 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Can SHOUTcraft America continue? Potentially. It may require further cash injections from myself to do so, it may even have to switch to a crowd-funded or at least crowd-supported model to some degree.
I think this is really the way to go just by looking at the success of the previous SCi tournaments;
SCi 1: During/after the tournament a donation page was set up at the request of the viewers and around $600 was raised
SCi 2: This time the donation page was advertised and raised just shy of $5000
SCi 3: $2427
SCi 4: $3904
If memory serves me correct those donations were supplemented by a handful of individuals who donated considerable amounts of money (didn’t Colin Smith donate $1000 one tournament?). For that reason these figures probably look better than they actually are but regardless it shows that people are possibly more willing to contribute themselves by directly donating rather than contribute indirectly by supporting a sponsor (it never does cease to amaze me to see the projects that get funded on kickstarter, I always thought people were very unwilling to part with their money).
Over all I’m pleased with how the event turned out, and I think the 3 new implemented rules will definitely contribute to a better tournament. Also just also thought I’d mention that for me personally one of the biggest draws (which hasn’t actually been mentioned in the post-mortem) was the ladder activity. One of the big goals of the original SCA was to give the American scene a shot in the arm and this time that goal was most definitely realised. The ladder was so vibrant and those last 3-4 hours before the deadline were so exciting.
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TB keeps gaining respect with every post he makes.
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The viewers contributing to the prize pool is also working out pretty well for Dota. MLG like doubled their prize pool and currently the Star Series tourney has increased it from 50k - 130k
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If Ting is America-only, what if you found a co-sponsor that was a Europe-only cell phone carrier?
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On December 23 2013 08:19 chaos021 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 23:49 boxerfred wrote:On December 21 2013 01:55 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Jimmy I don't really have to back up anything and I certainly don't have time to. The only evidence you need is to see the numbers every single week on these events. The numbers suck, simple as that.
Go and look up the events on fuzic.nl and you will see how low the numbers are This is why I lovehate you. You're doing so much for esports, and you're able to have an argumentation in such a great way - and then, you just pull a 3-liner in reply to some guy who tried to have a serious conversation with you. Which is poor But TB is right. What else is there to say? You want a 5-page exposition on why their numbers suck, and how it would never work? Seriously. What am I missing here?
Not 5 pages ofc, but as for a normal user of TL like me, I don't get why 500-1000 is a sucking number. You can get some ROI out of 500 (let's go even lower, 150-400) viewers a week, depending on the investments and the business model (have a look for basetradetv as an example, rifkin should be able to live from his roughly 500-1000 viewers depending on the event since he's streaming so much)? I would have loved to follow that kind of discussion which TB just declined, which is why I'm not happy with his short answer.
Edit: If that was a marketing blog filled with people who know what they're talking about, I would understand his answer (and I wouldn't feel bad because of the shortness). But this is a TL.net blog open to the public, so if you take the step and go all open with your information, you should moderate the comments in a proper way. Just my opinion.
Edit #2: I'm throwing a lot of viewer numbers around. Those are my assumptions of what they get. If my assumptions are really bad, I'm sorry - and I would have to re-adjust my arguments then  .
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On December 24 2013 22:12 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2013 08:19 chaos021 wrote:On December 22 2013 23:49 boxerfred wrote:On December 21 2013 01:55 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Jimmy I don't really have to back up anything and I certainly don't have time to. The only evidence you need is to see the numbers every single week on these events. The numbers suck, simple as that.
Go and look up the events on fuzic.nl and you will see how low the numbers are This is why I lovehate you. You're doing so much for esports, and you're able to have an argumentation in such a great way - and then, you just pull a 3-liner in reply to some guy who tried to have a serious conversation with you. Which is poor But TB is right. What else is there to say? You want a 5-page exposition on why their numbers suck, and how it would never work? Seriously. What am I missing here? Not 5 pages ofc, but as for a normal user of TL like me, I don't get why 500-1000 is a sucking number. You can get some ROI out of 500 (let's go even lower, 150-400) viewers a week, depending on the investments and the business model (have a look for basetradetv as an example, rifkin should be able to live from his roughly 500-1000 viewers depending on the event since he's streaming so much)? I would have loved to follow that kind of discussion which TB just declined, which is why I'm not happy with his short answer. Edit: If that was a marketing blog filled with people who know what they're talking about, I would understand his answer (and I wouldn't feel bad because of the shortness). But this is a TL.net blog open to the public, so if you take the step and go all open with your information, you should moderate the comments in a proper way. Just my opinion. Edit #2: I'm throwing a lot of viewer numbers around. Those are my assumptions of what they get. If my assumptions are really bad, I'm sorry - and I would have to re-adjust my arguments then .
First, what do you call "living" as far as revenue from streaming? Second, did you read all the stuff TB gets help to do in preparation for something like this as well as what he deals with live. Just imagine what it would cost to run that event with hired help to make things run more smoothly. Admin and production people aren't cheap, and you're still never guaranteed what quality you'll end up with in the end.
As far as moderating comments, he gave you an inside look (a rare one I'll say) into what goes on and what's needed. Why don't you moderate your expectations instead?
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On December 24 2013 11:01 Pontius Pirate wrote:
If Ting is America-only, what if you found a co-sponsor that was a Europe-only cell phone carrier?
I'm no expert in marketing, I assume it would be extremely difficult to find a product that appeals to "Europe" as a whole. Multiple countries with their own different laws, unions, watchdogs and vastly contrasting cultures. While American's do have vastly different beliefs they all operate under the same law and (for the most part) follow the same culture. A product marketed to the "European" audience would probably have to have a generic global appeal. The obvious (and very generic) example here is a gaming keyboard, no matter what country you're from, if you're into esports you can probably understand the allure of a gaming keyboard. A product like Ting though would be a lot more difficult, for example, out of all my friend and family and even acquaintances I don't know a single person in the UK who's on a pay-as-you-go network. No way you could market a single mobile phone carrier to the whole of Europe without alienating a portion of that continent.
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As a representative of a relatively new sponsor of e-sports events (started for me with the rise of SC2) I really appreciate this write-up and the full transparency it provides.
In terms of measurable ROI we (ASUS Nordic) really do struggle as it is near impossible to track sales conversion. As a hardware manufacturer we have been able to establish a KPI that works for us as it is now, by benchmarking it as part of our product communication and brand media+event mix. Finding the return in terms of CPM value, traditional and social media exposure.
Since this post-mortem and the response to it by the TeamLiquid community will be of great help to me, I just wanted to say thanks you all.
BR,
Marcus
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Awesome post, really enjoyed seeing behind the curtain a bit.
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EPT
