• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:42
CET 17:42
KST 01:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket12Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA12
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t GM / Master map hacker and general hacking and cheating thread
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft Data analysis on 70 million replays [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile [Game] Osu! Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Clair Obscur - Expedition 33
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2314 users

Opening the Dawngate: Good, Bad, And Ugly

Blogs > TheTenthDoc
Post a Reply
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
October 02 2013 21:52 GMT
#1
In a land lost to time (also known as Redwood City, California), a small team of men and women has spent over a year trying to create that can compete with two of the largest games free multiplayer games on the market today. Both games have rabid fans, and both of their developers spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on promotions and prizes. How well have they done?

The company is Waystone games, the game is Dawngate, and I think they've done a pretty damn good job so far.

[image loading]

Give me a formal intro/hype video soon, Waystone, please and thank you.

Before you say it-hopefully before you think it-yes, the splash looks a bit like League of Legends. And, if you just glance over a couple of gameplay videos, it will seem a lot like League. But after having played it for two weeks, I can confidently say (as a DotA, HoN, and League veteran) that it is something new. And at least for me, that's exciting.

The Good:

+ Show Spoiler +

-Two lanes.
Words cannot describe how different this makes the game feel, especially alongside the rest of the good stuff. It also greatly diversifies the lane setups you can run, with double jungle or a trilane with a solo being possible choices (though almost never the best idea in random matchmaking). You end up with less lane saccing than DotA and brusier-can't-kill-each-other-lanes a la LoL have yet to make an appearance. There is always, always action, again partly due to this and partly due to the rest of "good."

-A unique approach to hero roles.
While they mention it in almost every single one of their promo materials and constantly reiterate it on their stream, there's a reason they do that: it's pretty cool. Basically, during character selection you choose both a hero/champion/shaper/god/champion/smashmouth (pick your term), as well as both a loadout (which provides a bonus to stats and, in many cases, unique abilities) and a role each with different passives that alter both how they play and how you gain vim, the games currency.

There are currently four roles: Gladiator, Tactician, Predator, and Hunter. Each corresponds, roughly, with farmer, lane support, ganker, and jungler. Picking Gladiator gives you Greevil's Greed as a passive, giving you more vim the longer you can chain lane minion kills together. Picking Tactician gives you bonus gold whenever a lane creep dies in the area around you and rewards you with vim for dealing damage to enemy shapers on a 5 second cooldown that varies by attack type. Predators receive bonus movespeed when a nearby enemy is low on health and receive bonus kill for killing spirit well minions, as well as gaining bonus vim and xp for slaying enemy shapers. Junglers deal more damage to jungle creeps and gain health whenever they slay one, and have a PRNG chance to gain a flat vim amount on jungle minion kill.

These roles make it far easier to fill in gaps in the team composition while being able to pick a hero you want, since nobody ends up with 0 farm unable to buy anything but wards.

-No mana.
Oh yeah. That's right. No mana. Well, there's one shaper that basically has mana (called spirit), but even she is far more limited by cooldowns than she is by her resources. A large number of the characters are "pure shapers," which means that they can cast their abilities at any time they are off cooldown. Many of the others have unique resource systems that generally also grant them league-style passive abilities, but rest assured: you will not be unable to cast an ability for long in this game.

At first when I heard about this, I was dubious. It sounded silly. But once you play with it...oh boy. I never thought "this character would be more fun to play with mana or resources," and that's good enough for me.

-Free wards.
Every gets one ward for free. If you place your ward, it expires in 3 minutes and you get a new one. You receive a debuff on your character that lets others see whether you placed it. No more complaining, everyone! It doesn't stop conflict as much as you might think, too.

-The ancient/whatever is cool.
It shoots laser beams, heals your team, and makes a great big line or ring of fire at the time the enemy finally starts trying to kill it. And it gets really, really sad if you surrender.

-Passive income? You can interact with it.
Dawngate doesn't have gp/5 items. And it will probably never have a hand of midas item. What it does have, though, are nodes at the four corners of the map called spirit wells that generate passive vim over time as workers gather it. These workers possess a vim bounty for the other team, and these wells can be captured, king of the hill style. They lock at the beginning of the game and for 5 minutes once captured.

-The Shapers are fun. And they're called Shapers.
This is obviously highly subjective, but I enjoy several shapers despite there being almost no one in the pool at the moment. And if you call them heroes or champions? No one really cares. That's automatic points in my book.

-Respeccable summoners.
These become available at level 1, 10, and 20. They include blink (which is trash in this game), smite, and most of the other League summoners, but they're free. I'm a big fan of Tailwind, and it's always nice to have a BKB skill in the game (minus magic immunity, but I'll take what I can get). You can pay 400 vim to respec them at any time.

-Keys are given out...well.
If you can't get a Dawngate key, you probably aren't trying hard enough unlike a certain card game out there (Hearthstone COUGH COUGH). As far as I can tell they do their best to prevent bots from stealing them (posting them physically ON a twitch stream) and make them multi-use so that about a quarter of viewers can get in on any given giveaway, and your chances are probably better than that since many people with keys watch the screens.


The Bad:

+ Show Spoiler +


-Mirror matches stink.
They're awful. Mirror matches in normal queue were one of the things I hated most about League, and I played when there were far more champions than Dawngate has shapers right now. They do an okay job differentiating effects, but I hate it. Hard to put my finger on why, but ugh. It also constrains their design, I think, but it's a necessity for now and I think many players will be too used to it for it to every go away. What a shame.

-There's a surrender option.
I hate surrenders. Luckily, very few people actually do it in the beta (I suspect many don't know how), but I've already won games after my team tried to surrender. I admit a lot of people are also used to this and it's probably never going away.

-Itemization is mediocre.
No active items is kind of sad. Also, the item cost-effectiveness varies hugely amongst tiers for the different "sets" of items. It's fairly intuitive, but a few items shine so much more than the others that I often feel like I'm building the same thing every game. I never liked that feeling in League or DotA. They claim to be working on it, but I'm fairly skeptical.

-A few shapers are really, really good.
This is true in every game like this, but like many of these there's an issue due to the small hero pool. Raina is probably the best example of this. You can pretty much afk and do absolutely awful skill builds on her, but the things she brings to the table are too good to screw up. Also her skillshot looks pretty weak /rant.

-Limited server uptime.
I want to play. T_T

-Matchmaking and the community.
Everyone's new. Some people aren't as new as others, and get really frustrated when players are really, really new. Still much nicer than LoL or DotA ever were (and let's forget HoN). Matchmaking is really hit and miss, of course, but what can you do with so few people?


The Ugly:

+ Show Spoiler +

-The older (male) character portraits.

[image loading]
Personally, I think Fenmore became evil in the hopes of slaying the photographer that took this picture.

[image loading]
Varion harbored a deep anger towards his parents for not telling him his face would stick that way.

[image loading]
I think I only make this face if I really need to use the restroom.

My solution? Don't play any of these characters and try to convince your teammates not to so you don't have them staring at you all game. It's surprisingly effective.


Overall, I would really recommend getting in on this game while the iron is hot. It's a new experience, it's free, and if nothing else it's a nice diversion when you get tired of playing your game of choice. If anyone plays, I would love to find out your thoughts about the game, especially the recent update about itemization and monetization, as I'm still kind of up in the air about them. The devs are also very receptive to want the community says and wants.

See you in the Dawngate! Or on it? Through it? Whatever.

P.S. Tune into the Waystonegames stream after ~10:00 every day and you have a decent shot at a key. I got two that way-sadly my girlfriend can't play this game due to lacking any virtual proprioception.

***
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
October 02 2013 23:38 GMT
#2
Its made by EA and requires an Origin account...

Sounded cool briefly but screw origin lol.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Dark.Carnival
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States5095 Posts
October 03 2013 09:38 GMT
#3
Found this game the other day and it looks interesting but looks soooooo similar to league. I'd probably play it if I got into the beta but it's hard to see how any new mobas are going to find a place with dota2/lol dominating that scene
@QxGDarkCell ._.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-03 12:11:16
October 03 2013 12:10 GMT
#4
On October 03 2013 08:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
Its made by EA and requires an Origin account...

Sounded cool briefly but screw origin lol.


Luckily, you don't have to download spyware Origin in order to play. You just use a dump email to register with Waystone.
Noobity
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States871 Posts
November 01 2013 17:51 GMT
#5
I got into the beta the other day and started playing it and I'm extremely impressed. I felt a lot of the same positives that the OP listed, but because I played the other games mostly casually I didn't really feel the negatives were that negative (I don't really mind no on use items, mirror matches will inevitably be removed and I think a surrender option is awesome, personally).

As others have said, there's no need to download origin's shitty program.

One thing not brought up in the OP is how they do a much better job handling snowballing in this. Regenerating towers and relatively high survivability at lower levels really makes you feel like you're still in the game until it goes waaaaaaaay too far.

I've only played about 5 games, so maybe things will be different later, but I'm extremely pleased with the way the game is going so far. I love the simple launcher, the game starts in no time (after a relatively long character selection timer, but I'm ok with that), and I think the graphics are a good blend of the more natural, "blurry" dota 2 linework and models, and the color of LoL. Of course this is subjective, but I'm a fan of that stuff.

I think that of all the mobas to come out or really start getting big recently, this is the best of the bunch that I've tried (prime world or whatever, and infinite crisis, both way buggier, worse looking, and nowhere near as fun imo) and while I can't speak to the possible pro scene, I think I've found my new crack.
My name is Mike, and statistically, yours is not.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
November 01 2013 17:56 GMT
#6
Literally one glance at the game and you can tell these people concepted this game as a LoL clone. I mean, they obviously analyzed mechanics and made decisions, but if you can't tell that this game is built from the ground up to copy LoL then you aren't looking. The devs simply want to steal LoL players by being "League but better" which is a guarantee that the game will suck.

No interest.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Noobity
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States871 Posts
November 05 2013 20:41 GMT
#7
On November 02 2013 02:56 Sn0_Man wrote:
Literally one glance at the game and you can tell these people concepted this game as a LoL clone. I mean, they obviously analyzed mechanics and made decisions, but if you can't tell that this game is built from the ground up to copy LoL then you aren't looking. The devs simply want to steal LoL players by being "League but better" which is a guarantee that the game will suck.

No interest.


You're missing out, homie. It does a lot of things distinctly different that is very refreshing.
My name is Mike, and statistically, yours is not.
MagnuMizer
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Denmark384 Posts
May 09 2014 20:11 GMT
#8
Been playing this game the last couple of days and i must say im starting to like it... i never really played lol or dota but this seems like a lot of fun! im still very new at it though...
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
May 11 2014 14:45 GMT
#9
this game is actually really fun!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 48m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 78
Harstem 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 48887
Calm 4220
Rain 2589
EffOrt 863
Stork 664
BeSt 631
Mini 595
Light 519
firebathero 357
Larva 329
[ Show more ]
ZerO 299
hero 153
Rush 131
Leta 93
Sharp 64
Mind 62
scan(afreeca) 48
Pusan 32
Backho 31
ToSsGirL 31
HiyA 17
Terrorterran 13
JulyZerg 12
ivOry 4
Dota 2
Gorgc7418
qojqva2238
Dendi687
League of Legends
rGuardiaN21
Counter-Strike
oskar144
Other Games
singsing1633
FrodaN1166
B2W.Neo1012
hiko776
crisheroes439
Lowko348
Mlord286
DeMusliM222
RotterdaM195
QueenE105
Sick64
XaKoH 56
Trikslyr37
ZerO(Twitch)13
Dewaltoss6
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream25141
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• ZZZeroYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• FirePhoenix0
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3750
• WagamamaTV369
• Ler78
League of Legends
• Nemesis4239
• Jankos1412
• TFBlade1196
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
14h 48m
Classic vs MaxPax
SHIN vs Reynor
herO vs Maru
WardiTV Korean Royale
19h 18m
SC Evo League
19h 48m
IPSL
1d
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
OSC
1d
BSL 21
1d 3h
TerrOr vs Aeternum
HBO vs Kyrie
RSL Revival
1d 14h
Wardi Open
1d 21h
IPSL
2 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
BSL 21
2 days
StRyKeR vs Artosis
OyAji vs KameZerg
[ Show More ]
OSC
2 days
OSC
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
OSC
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-16
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.