• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:19
CET 14:19
KST 22:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains10Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18BSL Season 224Vitality ends partnership with ONSYDE20
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains GSL CK - New online series Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza Vitality ends partnership with ONSYDE
Tourneys
[GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO WardiTV Team League Season 10 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Gypsy to Korea BW General Discussion Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 BWCL Season 64 Announcement
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread Path of Exile No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Mexico's Drug War Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1917 users

Opening the Dawngate: Good, Bad, And Ugly

Blogs > TheTenthDoc
Post a Reply
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
October 02 2013 21:52 GMT
#1
In a land lost to time (also known as Redwood City, California), a small team of men and women has spent over a year trying to create that can compete with two of the largest games free multiplayer games on the market today. Both games have rabid fans, and both of their developers spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on promotions and prizes. How well have they done?

The company is Waystone games, the game is Dawngate, and I think they've done a pretty damn good job so far.

[image loading]

Give me a formal intro/hype video soon, Waystone, please and thank you.

Before you say it-hopefully before you think it-yes, the splash looks a bit like League of Legends. And, if you just glance over a couple of gameplay videos, it will seem a lot like League. But after having played it for two weeks, I can confidently say (as a DotA, HoN, and League veteran) that it is something new. And at least for me, that's exciting.

The Good:

+ Show Spoiler +

-Two lanes.
Words cannot describe how different this makes the game feel, especially alongside the rest of the good stuff. It also greatly diversifies the lane setups you can run, with double jungle or a trilane with a solo being possible choices (though almost never the best idea in random matchmaking). You end up with less lane saccing than DotA and brusier-can't-kill-each-other-lanes a la LoL have yet to make an appearance. There is always, always action, again partly due to this and partly due to the rest of "good."

-A unique approach to hero roles.
While they mention it in almost every single one of their promo materials and constantly reiterate it on their stream, there's a reason they do that: it's pretty cool. Basically, during character selection you choose both a hero/champion/shaper/god/champion/smashmouth (pick your term), as well as both a loadout (which provides a bonus to stats and, in many cases, unique abilities) and a role each with different passives that alter both how they play and how you gain vim, the games currency.

There are currently four roles: Gladiator, Tactician, Predator, and Hunter. Each corresponds, roughly, with farmer, lane support, ganker, and jungler. Picking Gladiator gives you Greevil's Greed as a passive, giving you more vim the longer you can chain lane minion kills together. Picking Tactician gives you bonus gold whenever a lane creep dies in the area around you and rewards you with vim for dealing damage to enemy shapers on a 5 second cooldown that varies by attack type. Predators receive bonus movespeed when a nearby enemy is low on health and receive bonus kill for killing spirit well minions, as well as gaining bonus vim and xp for slaying enemy shapers. Junglers deal more damage to jungle creeps and gain health whenever they slay one, and have a PRNG chance to gain a flat vim amount on jungle minion kill.

These roles make it far easier to fill in gaps in the team composition while being able to pick a hero you want, since nobody ends up with 0 farm unable to buy anything but wards.

-No mana.
Oh yeah. That's right. No mana. Well, there's one shaper that basically has mana (called spirit), but even she is far more limited by cooldowns than she is by her resources. A large number of the characters are "pure shapers," which means that they can cast their abilities at any time they are off cooldown. Many of the others have unique resource systems that generally also grant them league-style passive abilities, but rest assured: you will not be unable to cast an ability for long in this game.

At first when I heard about this, I was dubious. It sounded silly. But once you play with it...oh boy. I never thought "this character would be more fun to play with mana or resources," and that's good enough for me.

-Free wards.
Every gets one ward for free. If you place your ward, it expires in 3 minutes and you get a new one. You receive a debuff on your character that lets others see whether you placed it. No more complaining, everyone! It doesn't stop conflict as much as you might think, too.

-The ancient/whatever is cool.
It shoots laser beams, heals your team, and makes a great big line or ring of fire at the time the enemy finally starts trying to kill it. And it gets really, really sad if you surrender.

-Passive income? You can interact with it.
Dawngate doesn't have gp/5 items. And it will probably never have a hand of midas item. What it does have, though, are nodes at the four corners of the map called spirit wells that generate passive vim over time as workers gather it. These workers possess a vim bounty for the other team, and these wells can be captured, king of the hill style. They lock at the beginning of the game and for 5 minutes once captured.

-The Shapers are fun. And they're called Shapers.
This is obviously highly subjective, but I enjoy several shapers despite there being almost no one in the pool at the moment. And if you call them heroes or champions? No one really cares. That's automatic points in my book.

-Respeccable summoners.
These become available at level 1, 10, and 20. They include blink (which is trash in this game), smite, and most of the other League summoners, but they're free. I'm a big fan of Tailwind, and it's always nice to have a BKB skill in the game (minus magic immunity, but I'll take what I can get). You can pay 400 vim to respec them at any time.

-Keys are given out...well.
If you can't get a Dawngate key, you probably aren't trying hard enough unlike a certain card game out there (Hearthstone COUGH COUGH). As far as I can tell they do their best to prevent bots from stealing them (posting them physically ON a twitch stream) and make them multi-use so that about a quarter of viewers can get in on any given giveaway, and your chances are probably better than that since many people with keys watch the screens.


The Bad:

+ Show Spoiler +


-Mirror matches stink.
They're awful. Mirror matches in normal queue were one of the things I hated most about League, and I played when there were far more champions than Dawngate has shapers right now. They do an okay job differentiating effects, but I hate it. Hard to put my finger on why, but ugh. It also constrains their design, I think, but it's a necessity for now and I think many players will be too used to it for it to every go away. What a shame.

-There's a surrender option.
I hate surrenders. Luckily, very few people actually do it in the beta (I suspect many don't know how), but I've already won games after my team tried to surrender. I admit a lot of people are also used to this and it's probably never going away.

-Itemization is mediocre.
No active items is kind of sad. Also, the item cost-effectiveness varies hugely amongst tiers for the different "sets" of items. It's fairly intuitive, but a few items shine so much more than the others that I often feel like I'm building the same thing every game. I never liked that feeling in League or DotA. They claim to be working on it, but I'm fairly skeptical.

-A few shapers are really, really good.
This is true in every game like this, but like many of these there's an issue due to the small hero pool. Raina is probably the best example of this. You can pretty much afk and do absolutely awful skill builds on her, but the things she brings to the table are too good to screw up. Also her skillshot looks pretty weak /rant.

-Limited server uptime.
I want to play. T_T

-Matchmaking and the community.
Everyone's new. Some people aren't as new as others, and get really frustrated when players are really, really new. Still much nicer than LoL or DotA ever were (and let's forget HoN). Matchmaking is really hit and miss, of course, but what can you do with so few people?


The Ugly:

+ Show Spoiler +

-The older (male) character portraits.

[image loading]
Personally, I think Fenmore became evil in the hopes of slaying the photographer that took this picture.

[image loading]
Varion harbored a deep anger towards his parents for not telling him his face would stick that way.

[image loading]
I think I only make this face if I really need to use the restroom.

My solution? Don't play any of these characters and try to convince your teammates not to so you don't have them staring at you all game. It's surprisingly effective.


Overall, I would really recommend getting in on this game while the iron is hot. It's a new experience, it's free, and if nothing else it's a nice diversion when you get tired of playing your game of choice. If anyone plays, I would love to find out your thoughts about the game, especially the recent update about itemization and monetization, as I'm still kind of up in the air about them. The devs are also very receptive to want the community says and wants.

See you in the Dawngate! Or on it? Through it? Whatever.

P.S. Tune into the Waystonegames stream after ~10:00 every day and you have a decent shot at a key. I got two that way-sadly my girlfriend can't play this game due to lacking any virtual proprioception.

***
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
October 02 2013 23:38 GMT
#2
Its made by EA and requires an Origin account...

Sounded cool briefly but screw origin lol.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Dark.Carnival
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States5095 Posts
October 03 2013 09:38 GMT
#3
Found this game the other day and it looks interesting but looks soooooo similar to league. I'd probably play it if I got into the beta but it's hard to see how any new mobas are going to find a place with dota2/lol dominating that scene
@QxGDarkCell ._.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-03 12:11:16
October 03 2013 12:10 GMT
#4
On October 03 2013 08:38 Sn0_Man wrote:
Its made by EA and requires an Origin account...

Sounded cool briefly but screw origin lol.


Luckily, you don't have to download spyware Origin in order to play. You just use a dump email to register with Waystone.
Noobity
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States871 Posts
November 01 2013 17:51 GMT
#5
I got into the beta the other day and started playing it and I'm extremely impressed. I felt a lot of the same positives that the OP listed, but because I played the other games mostly casually I didn't really feel the negatives were that negative (I don't really mind no on use items, mirror matches will inevitably be removed and I think a surrender option is awesome, personally).

As others have said, there's no need to download origin's shitty program.

One thing not brought up in the OP is how they do a much better job handling snowballing in this. Regenerating towers and relatively high survivability at lower levels really makes you feel like you're still in the game until it goes waaaaaaaay too far.

I've only played about 5 games, so maybe things will be different later, but I'm extremely pleased with the way the game is going so far. I love the simple launcher, the game starts in no time (after a relatively long character selection timer, but I'm ok with that), and I think the graphics are a good blend of the more natural, "blurry" dota 2 linework and models, and the color of LoL. Of course this is subjective, but I'm a fan of that stuff.

I think that of all the mobas to come out or really start getting big recently, this is the best of the bunch that I've tried (prime world or whatever, and infinite crisis, both way buggier, worse looking, and nowhere near as fun imo) and while I can't speak to the possible pro scene, I think I've found my new crack.
My name is Mike, and statistically, yours is not.
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
November 01 2013 17:56 GMT
#6
Literally one glance at the game and you can tell these people concepted this game as a LoL clone. I mean, they obviously analyzed mechanics and made decisions, but if you can't tell that this game is built from the ground up to copy LoL then you aren't looking. The devs simply want to steal LoL players by being "League but better" which is a guarantee that the game will suck.

No interest.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Noobity
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States871 Posts
November 05 2013 20:41 GMT
#7
On November 02 2013 02:56 Sn0_Man wrote:
Literally one glance at the game and you can tell these people concepted this game as a LoL clone. I mean, they obviously analyzed mechanics and made decisions, but if you can't tell that this game is built from the ground up to copy LoL then you aren't looking. The devs simply want to steal LoL players by being "League but better" which is a guarantee that the game will suck.

No interest.


You're missing out, homie. It does a lot of things distinctly different that is very refreshing.
My name is Mike, and statistically, yours is not.
MagnuMizer
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Denmark384 Posts
May 09 2014 20:11 GMT
#8
Been playing this game the last couple of days and i must say im starting to like it... i never really played lol or dota but this seems like a lot of fun! im still very new at it though...
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
May 11 2014 14:45 GMT
#9
this game is actually really fun!
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Team League
12:00
Group B
WardiTV810
TKL 197
IndyStarCraft 142
Rex114
3DClanTV 61
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 197
IndyStarCraft 142
ProTech116
Rex 114
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 51084
Jaedong 2302
Larva 762
BeSt 633
Soma 585
Mini 522
EffOrt 506
Stork 344
actioN 277
Snow 270
[ Show more ]
Rush 226
ZerO 225
firebathero 200
Last 177
ggaemo 124
JYJ 95
Light 88
Backho 68
Pusan 61
IntoTheRainbow 51
Sea.KH 49
[sc1f]eonzerg 48
sSak 46
sorry 31
ToSsGirL 28
Bale 26
GoRush 24
soO 17
zelot 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Icarus 9
Terrorterran 6
Dota 2
Gorgc2303
XcaliburYe196
canceldota70
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1343
x6flipin356
oskar40
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes305
Other Games
singsing2009
B2W.Neo1225
shoxiejesuss433
hiko415
Fuzer 295
byalli202
Happy27
ZerO(Twitch)16
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream12298
Other Games
gamesdonequick764
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1834
• TFBlade704
• Nemesis381
• Stunt377
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
10h 41m
Replay Cast
1d 10h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 20h
RSL Revival
1d 20h
WardiTV Team League
1d 22h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Patches Events
2 days
BSL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Team League
2 days
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
GSL
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-11
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.