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So last year finally managed to muster some courage and I decided to go on Erasmus exchange.
After more than 6 months of waiting I'm finally here in Siegen. It's a really nice small city, with lots and lots of greenery, but also A LOT of hills, but the thing that shocked me the most was that Germans are apparently quite strict when it comes to the area of downloading series that are not available on the television yet 
So now I have a problem that I can't really follow series I watch anymore (that is unelss some friendly German can explain how it is possible).
There are no pictures because there is fog all the time
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i am pretty sure that it is indeed possible.
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Well, you can just google "watch xy online" and use an streaming site
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So, do hosting sites like old megaupload/megavideo count as streaming sites or would that be downloading.
In Germany they send you a bill for 1,3k € if you download torrents , unless you have anonymous IP address. And I'm particularly interested in icefilms which uses hosting sites for streaming basically.
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the bill is actually not because you download the torrent but for uploading data within a peer to peer network.
As long as you use streaming sites or direct download sites you are just fine. Just never upload anything or it can get really nasty.
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On September 25 2013 22:57 anomalopidae wrote:
So, do hosting sites like old megaupload/megavideo count as streaming sites or would that be downloading.
In Germany they send you a bill for 1,3k € if you download torrents , unless you have anonymous IP address. And I'm particularly interested in icefilms which uses hosting sites for streaming basically.
Who did you hear that nonsense from?
Torrents aren't illegal, nobody (except for people trying to rip you off) will send you a bill for downloading torrents.
It is illegal to download copyrighted material (through a torrent or any other means) unless you paid for it or the copyright holder provides it for free. However, downloading is rarely persecuted, uploading content puts you at a much greater risk. The majority of streaming services like youtube or any similar video hosting platform is a legal grey zone. I haven't heard of anyone being persecuted for watching stuff on such platforms.
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On September 25 2013 23:13 spinesheath wrote:
Who did you hear that nonsense from?
Torrents aren't illegal, nobody (except for people trying to rip you off) will send you a bill for downloading torrents.
It is illegal to download copyrighted material (through a torrent or any other means) unless you paid for it or the copyright holder provides it for free. However, downloading is rarely persecuted, uploading content puts you at a much greater risk. The majority of streaming services like youtube or any similar video hosting platform is a legal grey zone. I haven't heard of anyone being persecuted for watching stuff on such platforms.
well staff at the student union warned us about it and some friends also received fines
and everyone we talk to (german students) is warning us about not downloading
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It's difficult to figure this stuff out as a foreigner in Germany I have found. In Ireland I would use torrents but here I feel it's risky or something... Not sure...
German is a scary looking language at the best of times. 
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I wouldnt recommend using torrents since they are p2p and youre gonna upload something if you want it or not.
you can get in trouble for that. Most of it is scam but its kind of a pain in the butt to deal with that stuff.
You can basically watch all current tv shows on streaming sites 12-24 hours after they got shown in the us. No need to download them and risk something.
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On September 25 2013 23:52 SpikeStarcraft wrote:
I wouldnt recommend using torrents since they are p2p and youre gonna upload something if you want it or not.
you can get in trouble for that. Most of it is scam but its kind of a pain in the butt to deal with that stuff.
You can basically watch all current tv shows on streaming sites 12-24 hours after they got shown in the us. No need to download them and risk something.
That's the approach I've been following and so far so good.
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well, just use streaming sites or download from file hosters I guess, if you want to follow series.
it's not that difficult to figure out
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I have not heard about anyone getting letters for television series.
They do go after movie (porn as well) and software/games piracy, but I have yet to see a case for series.
And if you are in some kind of dorm, I would expect either a network of hdds/pendrives being exchanged, or a server that holds all the goods.
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Do NOT download via torrent in Germany. DONT DO IT. Shoot me a PM
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Use usenet through SSL and you'll be golden.
Edit: yeah, never use torrents (At least not unencrypted) in germany.
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Yeah, as most people said, don't use torrents.
Downloading via rapidshare and friends is mostly fine though. And accessing streams on putlocker etc too.
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Aww man, I wanted to hear the horror stories you guys must have for telling him not to torrent in Germany.
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I can share one from the earlier days (around 2002 or so):
Friend of mine came home from school just to find his rather hysterical mom standing in an empty living room: Earlier that day the police had knocked at their door and handed her a search warrent based on claims of serious copyright infringements. They had literally taken everything with them that had something to do with electronics: PC (ofc) TV, VCR, HiFi and even an old casette recorder (who knows how those mp3s get on the internet, right?!) as well as all CDs and DVDs.
Nowadays, you will just get mail from a lawyer who wants money (everything from 300 to 10 000 euros) and if you don't pay they'll sue you. Basically everyone at least knows someone who has gone through this procedure. They really are well organized here
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A friend of mine who lived in Germany for a year got fined a couple hundred euro's for torrenting a single film, if I remember correctly. I think he's still trying to resolve the issue, but it's pretty crazy how high the fine is.
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On September 26 2013 00:14 Rimstalker wrote:
I have not heard about anyone getting letters for television series.
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Not true. See below.
Like many people said already, downloading is in theory illegal in Germany. However, about ten years ago they indeed did go after those kind of people who downloaded a significant amount of movies (like more than just a film, we're speaking about 100+ movies) directly. Then the law firms tried to expand and go for smaller amounts and basically flooded courts. The courts decided - in minor cases (!!!)(speaking about only a few songs or something) - to not punish it as strictly as they did before, hoping to send the message to not exploit the people. It still is illegal, but nobody ever will go after you if it is only a few clips or a few songs. The cost/benefit ratio is way too small and it's getting increasingly harder for the law firms to actually win the case in a short run. Hence, downloading anonymously (one click hosters, streaming sites) is the way to go - in theory, not giving you some advice here, you should buy the stuff (*cough*).
Since Piratebay and Torrents were getting ever more popular the law firms found another way to circumvent the grey area of small downloads. They now accuse you for uploading (regardless of how much, 1 kb is enough) and they can prove this without a doubt, thanks to some laws passed under the Merkel administration in the past five years. If you're not using VPN or good Proxies, you're basically fucked, even invite-torrents (or whatever the name is) aren't neccessarily safe anymore. It does not matter what you download via Torrent/P2P, almost anything is covered by law firms nowadays. Since around three years even minor US series not available on the German market are in their focus. I think The Walking Dead was one of the more prominent examples. The second any company has the rights to market it (not even broadcast), the law firms will go after you. Hence, don't really try it.
Until April 2013 (iirc) you couldn't do shit if you got a letter from these shady law firms. Usually, they told you to pay something in between 500 - 800 €. Now you had to options, either react or not. If you wouldn't react, they'd sue you right away for 1,800€++. The idea behind it is, if they asked for a big amount of money, they could basically chose the court they'd like, so your costs would explode, even before you were found guilty. Obviously, they would almost never get what they asked you for, but you'd pay at least around 800€ for lawyer and court costs. So, everyone loses, they, because they had to fight and their benefit shrinked, you because you tried to fight back. Also, most times they could simply send some sort of bailiff to just get enough out of you right away, because you missed to react - so not reacting at all was the worst thing you could possibly do.
That leads us to option two: writing a modified "Unterlassungserklärung" (UE). That's why a lot of downloaders tried to go for the modified UE. However, the modified UE doesn't mean it's over, it just goes to the next stage. Usually, the lawyers just waited for another 2,5 years. After three years of their initial letter their claim would vanish, hence they'd do their final step a few days before this mark passes. And they did in some cases, not in every one of them.
Now, since the judges realized that this is nothing but a huge scam (most people will pay up the law firms right away, or they sued you for uploading a megabyte out of 1GB), they reacted. There were two - to my knowledge - rulings in the recent past setting the eventual fine for first offenders to 150€ maximum. So it's not as horrible as it used to be, but the stress you'd experience if they caught you is still enough to just not try it. Also, it's not common knowledge yet, or official, or whatever the word is, so it's not safe to assume you'd get away by paying 150€!
Since you're "just" an exchange student, a initial letter asking for 800€+ wouldn't be that bad. In your case, if you'd write a modified UE, it'd be, most likely, stupid to go after you once you're back in your home country ('cause they won't sue you right away). That'd mean a lot more effort from the law firm's side. However, the thing is, if you only got internet from your university, you could get into a shit ton of trouble with them. At least at my university they made it pretty clear, they'd do "steps" to punish illegal downloads. Which I can understand perfectly. Never happened though.
Also, since Germany is anal on IP rights, there are downright scams you could face. This happens sometimes, even though you never did something wrong. That happened to me. Somemtimes you get shady letters, which look a lot like the real IP law firm thing, asking you to pay them ~90€ because you downloaded MSN, Office or something in the like. They furthermore tell you that you have another two weeks to end the subscription you supposedly signed - and that's the most important word there:subscription. Once that word pops up, go straight to the police and tell them, do not react, do not pay. Ask German students for help, they'll know whether it's a scam or not. These kind of mails did increase in the past five years, too.
Finally, don't fully trust what I write here, I'm not a lawyer and I don't mean to give you advice on piracy, just wanted to give a longer explanation what kind of things could happen.
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There actually is a new law in force that limits the value of the claims when it comes to copyright infringements. However, it has a loop hole: It only limits the cost when there is no commercial interest on the side of the user. The lawyers of the copright owners argue that if you upload torrents you are making it accessible for hundreds of thousands of ppl thus causing serious damage to the copyright owners and that's why you are actually having a commercial interest. There is not yet much jurisdiction on this, but there are several courts known to be very big media friendly and since the copyright owners can choose the court the want to sue you in, you can guess to which courts they'll go with their claims...
ps: what I want to say with this: just don't do it, even if things might not be looking as grim anymore there is still much unclear and a lot of trials ahead of us till there will be some kind of legal certainty. you just don't want to risk getting involved in this.
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how do you they know what you've downloaded/uploaded? Can't you use a proxy?
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EPT
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