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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Sef Kloninger wrote in 2012 that one way to gauge whether a company values its employees is the size of the monitors. The post is short and a fun read, so I urge you to hop over and spend 2 minutes reading the post.
Places that value their people consider equipment expenses small compared to the productivity (and happiness) of their people. The best engineers are given the best tools to do their jobs. Big monitors are a very visible sign of this.
from Why Quit? Because They Have Bigger Monitors
I've been a part of three organizations in various capacities since finishing school. Each company had distinct attitudes toward employee hardware allotment. Ironically, the conditions have improved with each successive step.
1: Japanese Bigco
My first job out of school was in R&D at a Japanese company. Here I was given an old 19 inch monitor and a machine with just 256 megabytes of RAM. Pretty sure the processor was flimsy as well, 1.6 GHz at the most (not sure if it was even dual core to be honest but it probably was). The specs alone are enough to make any engineer cry, but add the security bloatware on top of this and the machines were torture to use. The running joke was that we'd get to the office in the morning, log in to our machines, then go get coffee because it'll take 5 minutes for to fully log in.
The miserable machines given to us was a matter of constant and incessant griping among the new hires. I was fortunate to not have much computing needs beyond Lotus and Microsoft Office software (though screen real estate for Excel definitely would have helped), but my friends writing software were also given pitiful machines. Some of them broke "official company rules" and installed additional RAM bought out of pocket because it was literally impossible to do their job on their inadequate hardware. What a clever (read: evil) way of cutting IT costs!
The more senior employees had marginally better hardware with respect to computing power and RAM, but I don't think I ever saw a single 24 inch monitor on an office desk (some lab machines had 24 inch monitors). I remember stealing borrowing RAM from a colleague's machine when she transferred to the office in Germany. It's a dog eat dog world there...
2: Silicon Valley Late Stage Startup
My next gig was at late stage startup in SV. Here, I was given a 19 inch monitor and a 2.4 GHz dual core machine with 2 GB of RAM. The machine was a few years old but since I was mainly just using Office, it was more than enough. When my senior colleague left a few months later, he handed me his 24 inch monitor as a parting gift of sorts. This handing of decent equipment, as I would find out later, was kind of a tradition amongst team members. I'd see it more than a few times in the ensuing years, and I did the same myself when I left earlier this year.
Once I moved from Marketing to Software, I found that the new team director would support the purchase and procurement of any hardware or software (within reason of course) that would make us more productive. As the PM of the group I would follow through on quite a few hardware upgrades for various members of the team, including monitors, hard drive capacity, RAM, processor speed, networking gear, cables, developer boards, compilers, and so on. Since we were an embedded software shop, each engineer typically had multiple machines and multiple monitors to go with them. The hardware wasn't top of the top, but it was good to very good, and any obstacles would be readily lifted through purchases once our frustrations were voiced.
3: Silicon Valley Early Stage Startup
I'm not an employee of this company, but have been affiliated with it from its early days. Even in its cash strapped, seed stage days, this company gave all employees dual 24 inch monitors and a macbook of their choice. These days I think the engineers have a choice between a 27 inch monitor or dual 24 inch monitors. One guy has a standing desk, so they're pretty flexible with the needs of their team members.
They don't spend wildly like some of the hot SV starups and don't give everyone 30 inch monitors like Google, but they don't hesitate to drop money when productivity and employee happiness is at stake.
The Best Approach?
You'd think that the best approach is to always provide the best hardware possible with reason, but this is the only the case if employee retention is a high prority for the company. In certian Japanese industries where changing jobs is still quite a challenge, it's probably not necessary to give employees good hardware; they don't have too many places they can go anyways.
But if you're in a place and industry with intense competition for talent, then providing even "good" hardware can be suicidal. The late stage startup I was at definitely has a retention problem, where the best engineers continue to head for the door after a few years. Hardware is just one of the problems there, but it is a readily identifiable sign that the company just doesn't put its employees first.
I'll definitely ask about the hardware we get when I start looking for my next place of gainful employment.
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Crossposted from my blog
 
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28093 Posts
Very interesting blog. The correlation is something that I never really considered. The only problem is that I might only accept a job if they offer 30 inch screens now 
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I wouldn't mind if whatever company i work for just allow me to use my own gear then I can claim tax returns on it but nooo can do... the IT policy is more important than my productivity and enjoyment.
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The correlation may be valid, but only if you compare the companies at almost the same dates.
When 256MB machines were the "norm", a 21" screen was 6 times as expensive as a 19" screen. And even though, 19" was not that bad back then. Displays later on got really cheap (getting cheaper as we write). A 24" inch screen nowadays costs 150 Euros, which is about the price, what a good 17" has cost back then. So let's say the screensize and quality naturally increases over time.
My first working experience (as intern) was 3 years ago and i had a CRT 17"... Ya, i had like 20cm left on my desk for my keyboard. Thank god that i was in the lab most of the day.
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So i got 3computers and 4screens at work. Do i need a raise ?
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I'm an EE almost grad, currently working on a P4 machine at an internship, but I do have a nice 24" screen... which is actually the best in the Eng office, by luck of it was available when I started.
They're hiring me properly with the promise of a better PC, so fingers crossed 
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This is very true. Despite me not having consciously thought about this, with the benefit of hindsight and now that I think about it, this fact about the hardware has impressed me with my current company. I got two huge screens and a high-end laptop, which I can use and take with me whenever I want, while my boss said he'd only upgrade his own computer with one bigger screen and keep his older laptop to save money and that it's better for me to have the nice stuff.
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Seems fairly obvious to me. Your work environment reflects on your employer. Salary isn't the only thing that matters. As a software developer, the quality of the machines that average employees use is usually a fairly strong indication of how well that company treats employees.
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When my GF changed jobs i noticed a change(she's a software eng consultant) her consultation firm gave her this http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/w-series/w530/ with the most badass hardware money can buy, 32gb ram, 3940XM processor, SSD hybrid HD etc(i am so jelly). However, since she's a consultant she's out on a job at another firm, and there she is not allowed to use this because she has to use their stationary PC's who are awful in comparisment. Like i5 SB's with 8gb of ram. Not bad PC's per say, but compared to what she can use it's a joke. I do think she has 2x monitors though.
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I know a lot of people who are currently working on a 15" tft jobbie from 10 years ago, which they've got to share with... idk, 5-10 people? I'll leave you to guess which sector TT
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I used to think this was a good gauge, but having since joined the research arm of a large company, have been given essentially free reign to buy whatever the f I want to do my job. We are only given a customized laptop to check the company mail and keep important documents encrypted, but everything else is up to us. We can spend our project / department budgets as we see fit, only needing rubber-stamp approval for anything over $5k. Every engineer's credit card limit is around $40k/month.
I personally set myself up with dual 24" and a mid-end HP workstation, but some folks in my department spend that much on just a video card, and others don't even buy a mouse upgrade over the basic 2 button they are given. (I'm a fan of Logitech MX x3!). Someday I'll justify dual 30" monitors.... bought myself a 3D printer already. Those are fun!
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On August 28 2013 15:50 TheEmulator wrote:Very interesting blog. The correlation is something that I never really considered. The only problem is that I might only accept a job if they offer 30 inch screens now
So spoilt for retail space...
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On August 28 2013 17:00 haduken wrote:
I wouldn't mind if whatever company i work for just allow me to use my own gear then I can claim tax returns on it but nooo can do... the IT policy is more important than my productivity and enjoyment.
I now use a $300 keyboard due to RSI issues. If IT doesn't give me the same one I'm going to bring one in no matter what they say.
On August 28 2013 17:13 Xulatis wrote:
The correlation may be valid, but only if you compare the companies at almost the same dates.
When 256MB machines were the "norm", a 21" screen was 6 times as expensive as a 19" screen. And even though, 19" was not that bad back then. Displays later on got really cheap (getting cheaper as we write). A 24" inch screen nowadays costs 150 Euros, which is about the price, what a good 17" has cost back then. So let's say the screensize and quality naturally increases over time.
My first working experience (as intern) was 3 years ago and i had a CRT 17"... Ya, i had like 20cm left on my desk for my keyboard. Thank god that i was in the lab most of the day.
I didn't want to put dates, but this all took place within the last 5 years. 24 inch monitors were definitely affordable 5 years ago, but you definitely have a great point I remember buying a 19" monitor in 2004 for $600 
And YES, I spent most of my time in the lab too!
On August 28 2013 18:29 Kuni wrote:
This is very true. Despite me not having consciously thought about this, with the benefit of hindsight and now that I think about it, this fact about the hardware has impressed me with my current company. I got two huge screens and a high-end laptop, which I can use and take with me whenever I want, while my boss said he'd only upgrade his own computer with one bigger screen and keep his older laptop to save money and that it's better for me to have the nice stuff.
Sounds like a great boss!
On August 28 2013 19:03 unkkz wrote:When my GF changed jobs i noticed a change(she's a software eng consultant) her consultation firm gave her this http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/w-series/w530/ with the most badass hardware money can buy, 32gb ram, 3940XM processor, SSD hybrid HD etc(i am so jelly). However, since she's a consultant she's out on a job at another firm, and there she is not allowed to use this because she has to use their stationary PC's who are awful in comparisment. Like i5 SB's with 8gb of ram. Not bad PC's per say, but compared to what she can use it's a joke. I do think she has 2x monitors though.
I am jealous *drool*
On August 28 2013 19:46 nepeta wrote:
I know a lot of people who are currently working on a 15" tft jobbie from 10 years ago, which they've got to share with... idk, 5-10 people? I'll leave you to guess which sector TT
Woohoo public sectorrrr
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I got dual monitors at work and 2 computers, one with a nice Xeon e5-1650 6 core processor
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On August 28 2013 17:33 FFW_Rude wrote:
So i got 3computers and 4screens at work. Do i need a raise ?
+ Show Spoiler [Son...] +
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I work in a public research institute, so we are not really swimming in money and thus I have a better setup (like, everything - monitor, chair, table...) at home than at work. The good part is that I can do a lot of my work from home, so it doesn't really matter alot.
The thing that surprises me the most is that some of my colleagues go to work every day and spend the whole day working on their laptop on the table without any accesories. Why do people do this to themselves? I don't think they will be able to stand straight anymore ...
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Very interesting, i think that if your job requires even remotely intensive software the company should provide adequate hardware for productivity reasons, but monitor can be a dick move 
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On August 30 2013 01:37 opisska wrote:
I work in a public research institute, so we are not really swimming in money and thus I have a better setup (like, everything - monitor, chair, table...) at home than at work. The good part is that I can do a lot of my work from home, so it doesn't really matter alot.
The thing that surprises me the most is that some of my colleagues go to work every day and spend the whole day working on their laptop on the table without any accesories. Why do people do this to themselves? I don't think they will be able to stand straight anymore ...
LOL, true often see people who use the computer almost for everything at work rocking a crappy laptop with no accessories not to mention the occasional netbook.
Sadly it's the generation that thinks a laptop it's everything computing
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
Where I work at, everyone gets the industry standards of Optiplex 990s and 2 25 inch moniters as well. Plus, our chairs are comfty.
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On August 29 2013 05:43 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2013 17:00 haduken wrote:
I wouldn't mind if whatever company i work for just allow me to use my own gear then I can claim tax returns on it but nooo can do... the IT policy is more important than my productivity and enjoyment. I now use a $300 keyboard due to RSI issues. If IT doesn't give me the same one I'm going to bring one in no matter what they say.
What kind of keyboard is that?
Just curious because I've had a few wrist issues over the last few years, but have never really considered/been recommended a special keyboard.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On August 30 2013 05:27 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2013 05:43 thedeadhaji wrote:On August 28 2013 17:00 haduken wrote:
I wouldn't mind if whatever company i work for just allow me to use my own gear then I can claim tax returns on it but nooo can do... the IT policy is more important than my productivity and enjoyment. I now use a $300 keyboard due to RSI issues. If IT doesn't give me the same one I'm going to bring one in no matter what they say. What kind of keyboard is that? Just curious because I've had a few wrist issues over the last few years, but have never really considered/been recommended a special keyboard.
I use a Kinesis advantage.
http://www.hkmurakami.com/blog/2013-05-29_One_Month_with_Dvorak___Kinesis.html
http://www.hkmurakami.com/blog/2013-08-27_I_Have_a_Thing_for_Keyboards.html
I don't think it's for everyone, but it's worth trying out if you have RSI issues.
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On August 30 2013 02:37 Gendo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 01:37 opisska wrote:
I work in a public research institute, so we are not really swimming in money and thus I have a better setup (like, everything - monitor, chair, table...) at home than at work. The good part is that I can do a lot of my work from home, so it doesn't really matter alot.
The thing that surprises me the most is that some of my colleagues go to work every day and spend the whole day working on their laptop on the table without any accesories. Why do people do this to themselves? I don't think they will be able to stand straight anymore ... LOL, true often see people who use the computer almost for everything at work rocking a crappy laptop with no accessories not to mention the occasional netbook. Sadly it's the generation that thinks a laptop it's everything computing
To be fair it's quite doable on some. I generally don't bother carrying accessories around with my laptop, other than a mouse sometimes. Then again I do have a 17.3" laptop with a full keyboard.
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On August 30 2013 05:35 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 02:37 Gendo wrote:On August 30 2013 01:37 opisska wrote:
I work in a public research institute, so we are not really swimming in money and thus I have a better setup (like, everything - monitor, chair, table...) at home than at work. The good part is that I can do a lot of my work from home, so it doesn't really matter alot.
The thing that surprises me the most is that some of my colleagues go to work every day and spend the whole day working on their laptop on the table without any accesories. Why do people do this to themselves? I don't think they will be able to stand straight anymore ... LOL, true often see people who use the computer almost for everything at work rocking a crappy laptop with no accessories not to mention the occasional netbook. Sadly it's the generation that thinks a laptop it's everything computing To be fair it's quite doable on some. I generally don't bother carrying accessories around with my laptop, other than a mouse sometimes. Then again I do have a 17.3" laptop with a full keyboard.
The issue with a laptop is that the distance from keyboard to screen doesn't reflect the height difference between normal elbow height and your eyes. Not even near it. You would need a x4 full size laptop.
The same issue mostly applies to tablets, phones etc. There is no good space to use them at, so people bend over to use them and suffer neck/shoulder/back problems.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
I have 3 monitors at home (27-24-24) so hardware at work will never be as good
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On August 30 2013 12:15 infinity21 wrote:I have 3 monitors at home (27-24-24) so hardware at work will never be as good
You can be a trader and get 4x 30 inch monitors (my friend had this set up in 2008)
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The shot I'm working on takes like 70 gb of RAM just to open in maya :D
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28093 Posts
On August 30 2013 15:05 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 12:15 infinity21 wrote:I have 3 monitors at home (27-24-24) so hardware at work will never be as good You can be a trader and get 4x 30 inch monitors (my friend had this set up in 2008)
lol, that would be sick.
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
On August 30 2013 15:05 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 12:15 infinity21 wrote:I have 3 monitors at home (27-24-24) so hardware at work will never be as good You can be a trader and get 4x 30 inch monitors (my friend had this set up in 2008)
Damn. There's no chance I'll be a trader or developer though so I'll probably never get a sick setup like that lol
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I have a 27" mac at work, and i work as a custodian which barely uses the computer to do any work, so it's pretty sweet great for watching youtube and the odd movie during downtime
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I work on a CRT monitor, on the same computer that was already old 3 years ago when I started. I think it's got 2 gb of ram (of course, it's ddr2) and a 2.6ghz celeron. I can barely run the programs I need to and costumers are generally quite annoyed by how slowly I work, even though most of it is just waiting for the computer to do its thing. Of course, it's also got vista on it and no matter how many times I told her, she still won't get XP for it.
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On August 30 2013 05:33 thedeadhaji wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 05:27 killerdog wrote:On August 29 2013 05:43 thedeadhaji wrote:On August 28 2013 17:00 haduken wrote:
I wouldn't mind if whatever company i work for just allow me to use my own gear then I can claim tax returns on it but nooo can do... the IT policy is more important than my productivity and enjoyment. I now use a $300 keyboard due to RSI issues. If IT doesn't give me the same one I'm going to bring one in no matter what they say. What kind of keyboard is that? Just curious because I've had a few wrist issues over the last few years, but have never really considered/been recommended a special keyboard. I use a Kinesis advantage. http://www.hkmurakami.com/blog/2013-05-29_One_Month_with_Dvorak___Kinesis.htmlhttp://www.hkmurakami.com/blog/2013-08-27_I_Have_a_Thing_for_Keyboards.htmlI don't think it's for everyone, but it's worth trying out if you have RSI issues.
This is what my doctor recommended me for my rsi issues. I never ended up buying it/using it but it definitely does its job well.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On September 01 2013 10:32 Doomblaze wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2013 05:33 thedeadhaji wrote:On August 30 2013 05:27 killerdog wrote:On August 29 2013 05:43 thedeadhaji wrote:On August 28 2013 17:00 haduken wrote:
I wouldn't mind if whatever company i work for just allow me to use my own gear then I can claim tax returns on it but nooo can do... the IT policy is more important than my productivity and enjoyment. I now use a $300 keyboard due to RSI issues. If IT doesn't give me the same one I'm going to bring one in no matter what they say. What kind of keyboard is that? Just curious because I've had a few wrist issues over the last few years, but have never really considered/been recommended a special keyboard. I use a Kinesis advantage. http://www.hkmurakami.com/blog/2013-05-29_One_Month_with_Dvorak___Kinesis.htmlhttp://www.hkmurakami.com/blog/2013-08-27_I_Have_a_Thing_for_Keyboards.htmlI don't think it's for everyone, but it's worth trying out if you have RSI issues. This is what my doctor recommended me for my rsi issues. I never ended up buying it/using it but it definitely does its job well.
I definitely don't recommend it for people with small hands but for people with bigger hands I think it could work
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My current workplace has dual 27" 1440p monitors, Ultrasharp and iMac mix, for all 200-300 employees. It's bloody sick.
I'm going to buy either one or two for myself soon, they're just so hard to live without now.
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On September 05 2013 10:16 Blisse wrote:
My current workplace has dual 27" 1440p monitors, Ultrasharp and iMac mix, for all 200-300 employees. It's bloody sick.
I'm going to buy either one or two for myself soon, they're just so hard to live without now.
Jesus.
One Ultrasharp heats up my room more than my radiator, let alone 600 of them lol.
Also thats like £300k in monitors. wat
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/w6R6cEF.jpg)
