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This is a heated issue, but please keep the debate civil.
Personal insult is not 'discussion' and will be moderated. -Pg 36 |
Topic: So you will be doing it from the back as before? Ok, but throwing more shit in the air and then try to push it in the "oh this wasn't meant to embarass someone.."-corner looks like shittalk in middleschool.
*edit* oh, and it was cleary you that fucked up this shit with posting private chat without asking all involved parties. Doesn't count that Acer was ok with it...what if not is the question. In Dennis' case it was not ok for him. So don't try to put the ball in his corner *edit*
TB-Rage: For someone that yells at everyone for being unprofessional, acting like idiots and all that stuff you're pretty good at being one of the total douchebags you are bragging about everyday.
But keep on treating everyone like they don't know what kind of stress and problems you are facing. I'm pretty sure there is no other human being out there that is in a comparable positon (or even worse).
If you want to be professional learn to handle your shit without looking like an enraged rhino: "Uh I will never deal again with him"..
Grow up. Some of my business partners where driving (sometimes successful) lawsuits against me and we still work with each other because it would be fucking silly to not to. Be thankful if you can do stunts like this and simply never work again with people if you don't want to. If E-sports gets bigger and more professional this "solution" will not work out good for you in most cases. When this happens, pls remember your "stress" to simply not work with ppl. you personally don't like.
Nice timewaster for the last 30 minutes... have to say. The backfire will also be "funny to deal with".
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so.. whats the problem? i do not see any problems here except double posting private conversations
do not mess it up
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Irrespective of the Take situation and anyones opinions on what's really just a few misunderstandings it's very sad news for the industry to lose Genna, what she has done with Axiom is truly amazing.
I remember reading the concept of the team and how it all formed; I knew at that point that it was the best of intentions made Axiom a reality and the conditions they provide to their players are remarkable for their size.
I wish Genna all the best, I hope that her medical conditions can be improved quickly and that in the future she can be involved in the team and the industry once again.
<3 to the Bains and Axiom.
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On August 16 2013 19:35 Ronyar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 18:56 Dayshi wrote:
why do you quoto a private conversation again when you retire ? You want to "hurt" him ? make him feel bad ? Who are you to do that, seriously. As he said it's simply not allowed.
It's the Slayer's curse ! Remember when Slayer's disbanded how Jessica threw shit at everyone on earth starting from ESF and down to her own players... It's certainly a little bit more subtile this time but looks like everyone in this scene needs a scapegoat anytime he has to justify his own difficulties and save face. The irony is that anytime TB et alii come to post something it's to rant on internet trolls because they don't respect others. How is posting professional exchanges between two companies any better? You have to defend yourself against internet hate ? - Sure, but certainly not by walking on others ! Sad it hurts Take because he tries hard to bring not only good matches but original tournament formats. And come on - ATC looked from the start like a small experimental event, even if you believed that every expenses will be paid you have at least to be suspicious about the final solvency of the whole thing and discuss more precisely these matters beforehand.
He's just a giant hypocrite. And no, I didn't take the test.
He will react negatively to what people say, say they shouldn't act like that, that the community is toxic, then respond by being equally toxic, if not more so due to his visibility (I won't say standing).
He's also the "PR co-ordinator" for Axiom. I guess that job doesn't involve co-ordinating the things that are said by the team manager.
If you contribute to creating a toxic, radioactive scene
Pot. Kettle. Darker than most people in the crowd.
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Take did nothing wrong in my eyes later on. Genna wanted to harm the reputation of his organization by posting sensitive information without asking him. It basically made everyone there, except Take, look bad. It's like taking a photo of someone in a bad mood and uploading it to the internet without asking him. He is a public person but is this really right? You may take legal action but not self-administered justice. And I'm pretty sure theres only a part of the conversation posted on TL and not the whole one for a reason. Very unprofessional from both sides in my eyes.
I think TB can handle this better than Genna.
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This is a god damned shame and a massive loss to e-sports. I have faith in TB's ability and passion, but that doesn't undermine your contribution. Thank you for your efforts Genna, we're sorry to see you go  .
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I must agree with Denis one does not simply put conversations online without asking permission...
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On August 16 2013 18:25 StarGalaxy wrote:
When i read Intricacy first blog about ATC i was wondering if Dennis would be ok with that. There were some serious damaging stuff in it.
For example: ( i already promised liquid quiet some time ago that i will pay some extracost which actually was planed to get paid by acer but they refused this)
This makes Acer look very bad. I really hope this incident won't have any effect of further sponsering of acer...
I don't know what happened there but that is not something that you should make public before talking to dennis. You should NEVER make PRIVATE conversations public without the permission of the people involved.
Bullshit. This isn't private at all. This is business. Don't tell lies or dirty secrets if you don't want them out there.
Take shouldn't say stuff that might make Acer look bad. It's his sponsor. Besides, this situation probably was his fuck up to start with - he planned on Acer paying something they never agreed upon. Rather stupid. In any case, Acer supports esports with their money, which is awesome. Not sure how anything could make them look bad...
And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
In general, I can't believe the shit TL is giving TB et al , starting page one with remarks like this;
On August 16 2013 12:47 geokilla wrote:
Axiom is screwed. Slayers is dead. Again. Genna is avoiding the problem instead of facing it.
Are you fucking seriously? All most people here have ever done for this passion of ours is ruin its taste by pissing all over it. Thank you so much.
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Posting private conversations (multiple times now) is a disgrace. Even someone like Genna must realise that, so this is nothing more than a poor smear campaign. Unfortunately this probably isn't enough to sue for, although I'm no expert on German law.
Good luck, TaKe.
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Just read some post about some "Team comes first"-stuff.
If that means you leak private chats without asking involved parties in order to "protect your Team" and your own credibility: Good luck with that in the future. At least some people will have a serious look at what they are texting with someone that acts like this.
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On August 16 2013 20:03 Passion wrote:
And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
Do you ask your friends to sign non-disclosure agreements every time you tell them something you might not want them to write on facebook that you said? No, you probably don't, because there's mutual trust and understanding, which is important in business as well.
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On August 16 2013 13:00 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 12:58 Joedaddy wrote:
Pretty shitty move when you make what one presumed to be a private conversation public. Even if you didn't think it was a big deal, Dennis obviously did. Fuck Dennis. If he wasn't so concerned about saving face rather than being honest with everybody about his mismanaged tournament then some of this might not have happened. When you say "I hope there are legal consequences for what you've done" all bets are off, I lose any respect I've had for you. I hope Take enjoyed the free casting and the numbers, I'll never deal with him and his organisation ever again.
There were many small things in the past that made me feel that Take's company is kind of unprofessional, but I never had any proof. Now, threatening to sue someone in a scene as small as SC2 - what the fuck. I don't feel like supporting his company via watching anymore after reading this. There seems to be some serious bullshiting going on behind the scenes, and I will keep my views down to the professional streams then. Before reading this post, I felt like "Hm, I kinda don't like what take is doing, but hey, it's still a good portion of scene support and stuff". Well, Take lost at least one viewer permanently now, which is me.
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On August 16 2013 20:03 Passion wrote:
Bullshit. This isn't private at all. This is business. Don't tell lies or dirty secrets if you don't want them out there.
Take shouldn't say stuff that might make Acer look bad. It's his sponsor. Besides, this situation probably was his fuck up to start with - he planned on Acer paying something they never agreed upon. Rather stupid. In any case, Acer supports esports with their money, which is awesome. Not sure how anything could make them look bad...
And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
...and how much experience in business do you exactly have? This absolutely NOT fair game. If anything gets released to the public about something to do with you and a partner (one you'd like to cooperate with in the future, that is), you normally FIRST send it to the partner and then make it public, and you never, never, ever release direct quotes from emails, transcripts from phonecalls or chatlogs. You. Do. Not. Do. This.
Not a serious organization in the world will release phonecalls, emails or chatlogs between companies.
As I said above, I've been a mediator between parties in dispute over some things, and things like this are a huge, huge no-no. It is better to get a lawyer and sue someone, than to throw dirt. By hiring a lawyer at least you show that you're serious, if you throw dirt you kinda show that you're a douchebag.
Maybe for the younger generation chatlogs and emails are no private information, but for business purposes they very much are.
Then, later in this TL thread TB says that he will never, ever do business ever again with Take. Really, is that the attitude? This is so incredibly toxic that it is absolutely beyond any belief. The company I work for has intense competition and even lawsuits going on against their competitors - yet do they work together where they can? Hell yes.
You only isolate yourself with this kind of Scorched-Earth approach, and you'll drive yourself out of business. Get a PR manager, someone with a boiling point that is considerably higher than yours, TB - and give him full control over the shit you're posting online, because you're incredibly damaging to the team and the scene.
TB, you're an awesome person with lots of passion, but just leave the hate, ok?
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I wonder how TB would respond if the roles were changed though. If Take would put skype logs online saying WASDkeyboards or any other axiom sponsor don't want to pay for expenses and stuff like that. Pretty sure it would be a lot worse than whatever happened now.
Btw Take never really said he's gonna sue Genna.. he said about him hoping theres gonna be some legal action, this doesnt mean he's gonna sue. I understand him being upset you just don't spread private conversations about each other's sponsors or business.
Conclusion: Bad move to spread private conversations and overreaction on the reaction. I feel bad for the players if something would happen to Axiom. Going from Slayers shitfest into a new one.. shame.
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On August 16 2013 13:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 13:10 Bagi wrote:
Feels like overreaction. The childish "fuck Take"-stuff isn't helping anyone either. Yeah man we should totally just hug it out after he threatened my wife and the team with legal action.
It's obvious it was just an emotional reaction from someone who felt cheated on by publishing these personal logs.
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On August 16 2013 20:11 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 20:03 Passion wrote:
And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
Do you ask your friends to sign non-disclosure agreements every time you tell them something you might not want them to write on facebook that you said? No, you probably don't, because there's mutual trust and understanding, which is important in business as well.
Edit: Why I'm reacting to this I'm not entirely sure - it's an utterly retarded comparison. As I stated before, this isn't private but pure business. Companies don't have moral values, companies don't know ethics, it's the whole reason we've created companies - so we can fuck each other over without getting personal. Anyway, here it comes;
I wouldn't say things I'd be embarrassed to have published. Also, unless I specifically state that this shouldn't be made public (which you can consider an NDA), I couldn't be mad about this happening.
Finally, if I'd treat them in such manner or threaten them with all kinds of stuff, I'd be slightly naive to expect them to keep it to themselves.
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On August 16 2013 20:03 Passion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 18:25 StarGalaxy wrote:
When i read Intricacy first blog about ATC i was wondering if Dennis would be ok with that. There were some serious damaging stuff in it.
For example: ( i already promised liquid quiet some time ago that i will pay some extracost which actually was planed to get paid by acer but they refused this)
This makes Acer look very bad. I really hope this incident won't have any effect of further sponsering of acer...
I don't know what happened there but that is not something that you should make public before talking to dennis. You should NEVER make PRIVATE conversations public without the permission of the people involved.
Bullshit. This isn't private at all. This is business. Don't tell lies or dirty secrets if you don't want them out there. Take shouldn't say stuff that might make Acer look bad. It's his sponsor. Besides, this situation probably was his fuck up to start with - he planned on Acer paying something they never agreed upon. Rather stupid. In any case, Acer supports esports with their money, which is awesome. Not sure how anything could make them look bad... And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game. In general, I can't believe the shit TL is giving TB et al , starting page one with remarks like this; Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 12:47 geokilla wrote:
Axiom is screwed. Slayers is dead. Again. Genna is avoiding the problem instead of facing it. Are you fucking seriously? All most people here have ever done for this passion of ours is ruin its taste by pissing all over it. Thank you so much.
So i assume you dont run a business? Every business conversation is by default private, thats not a law but common sense and you basically digging a hole for yourself and your business. Now esports is a mess anyway but in any other industry you would be fucked cause no one would want to work with you again unless you come with deals they cant resist.
You dont bring your dirty laundry to the public, you handle it like grown up business folk and take responsibility for your own faults and dont blame others cause some people are upset and it makes you look bad. Take it like a grown up.
Btw what lies and dirty secrets did Take say? All i read is that Genna assumed the travel costs would be paid fully cause she didn't hear otherwise and Take tried to help to make something out of it. Axiom didn't get the travel funds and Genna lost her mind and thought it would be smart to make private conversations public where everyone can read that she fucked up.
Your a Axiom fan or something and i get that but your really making yourself look foolish with defending this crap.
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On August 16 2013 20:21 Passion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 20:11 Tobberoth wrote:On August 16 2013 20:03 Passion wrote:
And again, if there's no non-disclosure agreement, everything is fair game.
Do you ask your friends to sign non-disclosure agreements every time you tell them something you might not want them to write on facebook that you said? No, you probably don't, because there's mutual trust and understanding, which is important in business as well. Edit: Why I'm reacting to this I'm not entirely sure - it's an utterly retarded comparison. As I stated before, this isn't private but pure business. Companies don't have moral values, companies don't know ethics, it's the whole reason we've created companies - so we can fuck each other over without getting personal. Anyway, here it comes; I wouldn't say things I'd be embarrassed to have published. Also, unless I specifically state that this shouldn't be made public (which you can consider an NDA), I couldn't be mad about this happening. Finally, if I'd treat them in such manner or threaten them with all kinds of stuff, I'd be retarded to expect them to keep it to themselves.
Are you fucking trolling?
Good luck trying to find a company who agrees with you. Things said over the phone or in chat are strictly 'off the record', and should not be made public. There's a reason why companies have a PR manager.
Again, read the chats - Take didn't threat anything - he said he hopes that legal action will be taken. There is literally no threat there. And yes, companies regularly play with these sort of words, and no, they do not make these public.
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EPT
