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On April 04 2013 23:23 Enders116 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 23:17 Chaggi wrote:
I mean, so what? Just compete with the Koreans like it seems like what the other regions are going to have to do. Yes, but this is taking all hope to Chinese, Taiwanese, and Australians to absolutely zero. Imagine, for a minute, that there was a tournament for, I donno, DFO (Dungeon Fighter Online), and it excluded everyone from the North American server because translating is too much trouble or airfare is too expensive, or quality can't be assured, etc. I know DFO is not that popular in the USA, but come on. SC2 is the second most popular competitive game in Taiwan, and there are a few others in mainland China that supercede SC2 as well. EDIT: Input from Chinese casting legend XiaoSe has just been added to the OP.
I guess what I mean is that this isn't a problem just from China, it's a problem all over the world cause Koreans are literally going to go and face off against each other and do whatever. I'm the biggest Korean homer there is, and even I think this is an awful idea. I didn't mean that China/TW/Australia shouldn't have their own, I just mean, it fits with what's happening everywhere else so...
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On April 05 2013 00:02 kollin wrote:
So you're bitching and moaning because in the FIRST time Blizzard try something like this, they don't want to overcommit and instead include the three regions that will garner the most viewers and attention. You're just being overly dramatic, let's wait for more than one season of this league and see whether or not the SEAsians and China are included then.
EDIT: The worst part is you're not upset because we don't get to see the potentially great play from the Chinese, you're upset because you have nothing to cast.
Can you find someone else more qualified to do it? I spent a year of my life in China, a semester in Taiwan, I've casted for the NSL, ASL, MSI Pro World Cup Asia Qualifiers... I have direct contacts with TeSL, NSL, G-League, and everything else in between, I speak Chinese to a grade that is fluent enough to study in Chinese Universities.
But to be quite honest with you, Sen is my favorite SC2 player of all time. Following him would have to be XiGua and then MacSed.
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On April 05 2013 00:56 Enders116 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 00:02 kollin wrote:
So you're bitching and moaning because in the FIRST time Blizzard try something like this, they don't want to overcommit and instead include the three regions that will garner the most viewers and attention. You're just being overly dramatic, let's wait for more than one season of this league and see whether or not the SEAsians and China are included then.
EDIT: The worst part is you're not upset because we don't get to see the potentially great play from the Chinese, you're upset because you have nothing to cast. Can you find someone else more qualified to do it? I spent a year of my life in China, a semester in Taiwan, I've casted for the NSL, ASL, MSI Pro World Cup Asia Qualifiers... I have direct contacts with TeSL, NSL, G-League, and everything else in between, I speak Chinese to a grade that is fluent enough to study in Chinese Universities. But to be quite honest with you, Sen is my favorite SC2 player of all time. Following him would have to be XiGua and then MacSed.
Someone more qualified to cast this? Entirely irrelevant, I didn't doubt your casting ability at all.
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China6329 Posts
Here is the problem: why Blizzard decides to somewhat get rid of WCS China in the first place? WCS China 2012, Asia 2012 and BWC was not as successful as their press release stated. They consider putting China into the pan was a mistake. And as I stated during the TL interview, SCII in China isn't as big as people think, it might still be a big potential market but it realistically isn't going to hurt Blizzard a lot. And without significant player results and big commercial potential, is it worthy to put money, effort and time yet again? They want to focus on the most important regions this year as a first step, sacrifices must be made.
I'm as unhappy and even angry as you are, yet I accept this as hits must be taken for general incompetence of the entire scene for the past years.
Also, they have their own casting choices to do the job, they got Artosis and Rob Simpson last year for WCS China, you are a great caster buddy I love what you did in NSL, but business is business. Sorry to be harsh.
Lastly, as far as I learn from Blizzard and pro teams they have a backup plan about it.
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On April 05 2013 02:07 digmouse wrote:
Here is the problem: why Blizzard decides to somewhat get rid of WCS China in the first place? WCS China 2012, Asia 2012 and BWC was not as successful as their press release stated. They consider putting China into the pan was a mistake. And as I stated during the TL interview, SCII in China isn't as big as people think, it might still be a big potential market but it realistically isn't going to hurt Blizzard a lot. And without significant player results and big commercial potential, is it worthy to put money, effort and time yet again? They want to focus on the most important regions this year as a first step, sacrifices must be made.
I'm as unhappy and even angry as you are, yet I accept this as hits must be taken for general incompetence of the entire scene for the past years.
Also, they have their own casting choices to do the job, they got Artosis and Rob Simpson last year for WCS China, you are a great caster buddy I love what you did in NSL, but business is business. Sorry to be harsh.
Lastly, as far as I learn from Blizzard and pro teams they have a backup plan about it.
I was actually approached and asked to be the English caster for WCS Taipei 2012 (I think it was Beta who asked me this in person). I couldn't do it because I was supposed to leave one month before it happened. My parents wouldn't let me stay.
EDIT: Oops. This is Enders116, but I'm responding using google chrome, so I'm logged in as ESLTaiwan.
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I just don't want to see the final is 16 KR。BLZ would make a limit to make KR get the place in KR。Or whats the difference of BWC and GSL？
ps：BLZ could give the right of broadcast to China media，so they would not pay more for that。it's good for SC2 spread in China.
Only Korea，Starcraft 2 is lonely！
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LOL
Also, I like how a little bit ago people were complaining about Foreigners not being able to compete and how the scenes should be more integrated, now when we integrate and force people to play at the highest levels, they complain. All changes are met with complaints.
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On April 05 2013 03:09 Dubzex wrote:+ Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HilyOLWzrM Oops
This further confirms my theory that there is an appropriate snippet of IASIP for almost every scenario in life.
As to the topic at hand, I think it sucks, but past a certain point, the rest of the world can only concern itself with China's insular way of doing things so much. I would think that Blizzard most definitely interacted with the idea of continuing the WCS in China only to obviously come to the conclusion that such a pursuit was not worth the resources.
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Well, it's unfortunate. I would have liked if if Blizz had divided the regions in EU, NA and Asia, rather than EU, NA, and KR. Just so that it's a bit more inclusive though end results will likely be the same.
I wish the Chinese scene was as big on SC2 as it is on Dota :\
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On April 04 2013 21:05 ZeRoX-45 wrote:
Yes this is absurd. If we look how much talent China has I think its stupid not to try to expand market for sc2 over there, they are like the best players in the world for RTS.
Btw Enders, do you follow Chinese scene? Did you heard anything about Chinese wc3 players switching to sc2 soon? I mean WE team and players like Sky,infi,Fly100%,TeD and others.
Sky and TeD aren't switching. They have no interest.
Infi's been mostly mediocre, and Fly's dabbled a little (as Zerg), but I don't know if he cares enough to go hardcore.
Most of the War3 pros are semi-pros these days. They work and play a bit on the side. It's not worth the effort for them. The payout is so low for what they put in, they might as well just keep playing War3.
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The problems Blizzard has in China are not the language. Translation is not unavailable, and you can bet that Blizzard has a presence. As well as Chinese speakers.
There are other considerations with regards to China that you seem to be ignoring. Frankly, China is large enough that they don't need the rest of the eSports scene. The problems Blizzard cited at the announcement were infrastructure related - for various reasons that probably have absolutely zero to do with the players or game itself. Just putting up prize money could be construed as a foreign investment, and they can be pretty heavily scrutinized.
I mean, seriously... there are entire companies whose sole business is to assist companies with navigating the path to investment and business in China for foreign corporations. It more than likely is not worth the expense at this time for Blizzard to move officially into China as an eSports organizer.
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I definitely agree that there should have been a Chinese region for WCS, for two reasons:
1. It would help to grow Starcraft in what is potentially the biggest parket for eSports.
2. It would entice plenty of Koreans to participate (due to the relative closeness of the two countries geographically), meaning more Koreans (which equals higher quality of play) at the WCS global final.
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I feel bad for Sen. That's about it. Maybe Wayi Spider cause I love their team name lol
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On April 05 2013 10:43 felisconcolori wrote:
The problems Blizzard has in China are not the language. Translation is not unavailable, and you can bet that Blizzard has a presence. As well as Chinese speakers.
I mean, seriously... there are entire companies whose sole business is to assist companies with navigating the path to investment and business in China for foreign corporations. It more than likely is not worth the expense at this time for Blizzard to move officially into China as an eSports organizer.
+1
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If they're not going to include China or SE Asia then there's no reason to include EU or NA either. Its not like any of the regions besides KR has any shot at all of winning. But if they really cared about expanding professional Starcraft, there's absolutely no justification for them not hosting a WCS Asia/SEA. Once upon a time, China actually could've been the next big thing for Starcraft, remember that huge BW WCG attendance in Shanghai? Now Blizzard has screwed up once again, and China has moved on to playing cruddy MOBA games. I'm sure nobody is a bigger Blizzard fan these days than Riot Games.
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On April 05 2013 13:23 iamho wrote:
If they're not going to include China or SE Asia then there's no reason to include EU or NA either. Its not like any of the regions besides KR has any shot at all of winning. But if they really cared about expanding professional Starcraft, there's absolutely no justification for them not hosting a WCS Asia/SEA. Once upon a time, China actually could've been the next big thing for Starcraft, remember that huge BW WCG attendance in Shanghai? Now Blizzard has screwed up once again, and China has moved on to playing cruddy MOBA games. I'm sure nobody is a bigger Blizzard fan these days than Riot Games.
The huge WCG crowd was in Chengdu not Shanghai. The reason so many people were there was because of WC3 that was even more popular than BW.
Also there are still tons of Blizzard fans in China because of WoW. At the BWC finals in Shanghai, the WoW event attracted way more people than the SC2 event. But you are right that free to play games have taken the market over in China.
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On April 05 2013 13:23 iamho wrote:
If they're not going to include China or SE Asia then there's no reason to include EU or NA either. Its not like any of the regions besides KR has any shot at all of winning. But if they really cared about expanding professional Starcraft, there's absolutely no justification for them not hosting a WCS Asia/SEA. Once upon a time, China actually could've been the next big thing for Starcraft, remember that huge BW WCG attendance in Shanghai? Now Blizzard has screwed up once again, and China has moved on to playing cruddy MOBA games. I'm sure nobody is a bigger Blizzard fan these days than Riot Games.
THIS...
Is my main point. Brood war in China was probably only outdone by Brood War in Korea, and that's it. All because of LAN support.
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On April 05 2013 13:23 iamho wrote:
If they're not going to include China or SE Asia then there's no reason to include EU or NA either. Its not like any of the regions besides KR has any shot at all of winning. But if they really cared about expanding professional Starcraft, there's absolutely no justification for them not hosting a WCS Asia/SEA. Once upon a time, China actually could've been the next big thing for Starcraft, remember that huge BW WCG attendance in Shanghai? Now Blizzard has screwed up once again, and China has moved on to playing cruddy MOBA games. I'm sure nobody is a bigger Blizzard fan these days than Riot Games.
I don't think China has ever really cared about SC2 the way it cared about BW/Dota/WC3, and if anything it's the fault of the game itself and also the always online portion of battle.net/SC2. If you look at the recent G-league finals and last years ACE league, or the year before thats G-1/ACE league, there were a loooot of empty seats in SC2 and very little sound, but for everything else it was huge.
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On April 05 2013 14:49 Enders116 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 13:23 iamho wrote:
If they're not going to include China or SE Asia then there's no reason to include EU or NA either. Its not like any of the regions besides KR has any shot at all of winning. But if they really cared about expanding professional Starcraft, there's absolutely no justification for them not hosting a WCS Asia/SEA. Once upon a time, China actually could've been the next big thing for Starcraft, remember that huge BW WCG attendance in Shanghai? Now Blizzard has screwed up once again, and China has moved on to playing cruddy MOBA games. I'm sure nobody is a bigger Blizzard fan these days than Riot Games. THIS... Is my main point. Brood war in China was probably only outdone by Brood War in Korea, and that's it. All because of LAN support.
Actually, there's a great reason to include EU and NA. You can easily invest in both places, have an audience that has a similar gaming and consumer culture, and the barriers to entry are not so high. There's also excellent network infrastructure that is less encumbered by mandatory censorship and network filtering. To say nothing of governmental involvement in business practices - yes, there's regulation, but it seems to be a little more involved for foreign companies seeking to do business in China. Asia in general is a different place than "the West", and China itself has a very complex cultural dynamic that is significantly different from "the West". (Not better, not worse, just different.)
Then, too, SC2 does not have the following in China that BW does. I have no doubt Blizzard is very interested in expanding to China and the rest of SEA, but it takes more time than anywhere else in the current crop of regions.
+ Show Spoiler +Also, I would say that Brood War's LAN support was very important in China. But not for the reasons you're thinking.
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EPT
