• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:25
CET 22:25
KST 06:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational8SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
Starcraft 2 will not be in the Esports World Cup herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey! SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list? When will we find out if there are more tournament
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
Which foreign pros are considered the best? [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BW General Discussion BW AKA finder tool Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Navigating the Risks and Rew…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1959 users

[3K Post] TLS Special Tactics

Blogs > dRaW
Post a Reply
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-06 16:35:55
February 05 2013 00:57 GMT
#1
This will be a lot more formal and abundant in details within the week, basically I am going to undergo a series of in depth analysis of some pro replays in which I will be formulating my new style for the upcoming TLS. (This goes for next season as well since there won't be enough time for it to rub off most likely before my group matches)

I will then mimic repeatedly vs computers with in-game clocks/watching replays checking on worker count at many time intervals and income per minute to make sure I can sync with the pros as close as possible.

The reason I am doing all of this is mostly because I have wanted to improve in BW but have neglected the process of achieving this improvement due to the activity for the past while in the BW scene. (Yeah there are were some weekly tours and such but it seems rather lonely and dead to log in every 2 days to see nobody you know or having no games on iccup after C). With the return of TLS, hopefully after season 1, the community should strengthen and increase in activity so I am going to finally try to reach my goal.

I will save replay packs and break down some per match-up to note what areas exactly I am trying to improve and compare my mistakes to the pro tendencies. Also, I will try to save some FPVods while I am explaining some of the thought processes I will derive from improving my mechanics and apply this to new and creative builds. (I used to have a notepad folder with about 10 varying PvZ BOs, I happen to reformat last November and haven't been as active so I completely forgot most of them since they were very specifically timed).

In short: I posted this to reserve my 3K post, more information to follow.


1: PvZ GW Expand vs Overpool Expand

+ Show Spoiler +
I won't go into every single supply at which you build something as there can be many variations so this is just to note at what timings that you should be at with your tech vs theirs.

8/9 Pylon @ Natural *Note you should only do this at locations where lings can only enter single file after wall completed
Probe scouts your closest non natural third (this is because overlords should scout the closest enemy natural, i.e in this scout path)
10/17 same probe returns -> Gateway
12/17 in base pylon
In-game time:
2:01 ->First Zealot starts @ 100% Gateway
2:06 -> Spawning pool has finished
Queue up a 2nd zealot until you scout your opponent (if they 12hatch you can cancel this and go 17nexus, use first zealot to harass while you complete wall and build 2nd zlot)
2:27 First Zealot and first 2 lings finish -> At this time Tosses Resource per minute is 680~ Zerg is 592~ (You have more income because they went overpool, making lings instead of drones)
IF* They make 6lings, they will be finished by 2:35

14-15 Supply for Zerg (2:50) takes their geyser
21/25 (2:53) Nexus begins
Resources Per minute: Toss = 744 | Zerg=600 (This is 6lings vs 2 zealots, protoss didn't cut any probes)

*Note here, if zerg makes more than 6lings, you must cut probes @ 21 supply to finish wall + add zealots. Else, you can continue probes, cut zealots: 2 total, if lost 1 make another, add tech and complete wall (no cannons required)

22/25 Pylon
3:16 - > Zerg around 16-17 supply (Geyser completes)
Resources Per minute: Toss = 816 | Zerg = 584 [8lings] *note: ofc RPM will change but this is just a rough estimate over 10replays based on reactions from the zerg, Toss normally unaffected my income with this build

23/25 Assimilator
26/33 Cybernetics Core (100% Gas completion)

3:45 Zerg Lair Starts -->> Supplies : Protoss 26/33 RPM: 864 / 19~probes 2~zealots | Zerg 17/18 RPM: 582 13~drones 8zerglings

30/33 (4:05) Nexus Finishes (21 total probes) so: You have 3 on gas, 18remain with 9 minerals in the main and 1 scouting. Optimal mining is close to 1.5 probes per mineral so you want to transfer no more than 5 probes and after you continue to saturate your main, start transferring probes to your natural from your main as they're being produced. (i.e: You transfer 4-5probes to the natural, leaving 17-4/5 (12 or 13) in the main as you get to say 18probes in the main, which is double probes per mineral, you can start sending some to the natural so your probe per mineral will be at an even ratio among the expansions.

(4:05) Zergling speed (@100 extra gas after lair)

4:27 -> core completes -> get stargate RPM: Toss = 824 | Zerg = 600
4:32 3rd Hatchery finishes

Now the following depends on your (2nd) gas timing so the rest is also relative but we can use it to continue to compare.
4:50 ~ 35/42 citadel
5:01


TBC

*****
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
February 05 2013 01:04 GMT
#2
OOKE)))

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
February 05 2013 01:08 GMT
#3
One of the more annoying things in life is seeing some extremely useful and important information that is completely useless to you.
Case in point: I'm a zerg. Shit.
Should still be interesting to see, though. High level knowledge is usually interesting regardless of it's practical applications.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-05 01:50:43
February 05 2013 01:43 GMT
#4
On February 05 2013 10:08 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
One of the more annoying things in life is seeing some extremely useful and important information that is completely useless to you.
Case in point: I'm a zerg. Shit.
Should still be interesting to see, though. High level knowledge is usually interesting regardless of it's practical applications.


Well someone pointed out that since I will analyze from my perspective, if you are not protoss you might see something for the terran aspect of my PvT break-down. Also, I do know quite a bit about ZvP knowledge even though my mechanics for zerg are extremely lacking I am still able to beat some good Protosses in this match up. (I even beat iOps`Sense @ iccup on Tau Cross ZvP)
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
ImbaTosS
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1704 Posts
February 05 2013 11:50 GMT
#5
This is great, I love the kind of thing TLS is bringing out. Your extra effort won't go unnoticed KC, and I'm sure you'll have the results to prove it. You've already displayed some formidable strategy and sheer ability in the execution.
EleGant[AoV]
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
February 06 2013 16:36 GMT
#6
will finish the first build with photos when I return from class
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
Wohmfg
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom1292 Posts
February 07 2013 18:11 GMT
#7
This is very cool, I can't wait till you have some more builds up and this becomes more comprehensive.
BW4Life!
Sayle
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom3685 Posts
February 07 2013 20:55 GMT
#8
At what supply do you 1a2a3a?
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
February 09 2013 03:45 GMT
#9
On February 08 2013 05:55 Sayle wrote:
At what supply do you 1a2a3a?


basically any supply, depends on your play style. If you want just easy win for instance, 1a is all that's required.
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
February 11 2013 04:14 GMT
#10
Some FPVods from the last defiler tour: http://www.justin.tv/tmskal_hon/videos / http://www.twitch.tv/gosuking/b/365949197 I think that my speed is increasing but I still haven't implemented my new training methods. Noticing that the practice on fish is paying off as I can react almost to my thought speed. Still getting overrun @ university with work so my update for the OP will be continually delayed, hoping to have a completed set of builds before my TLS quals this upcoming weekend.
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 13h 35m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 364
uThermal 264
OGKoka 253
ProTech124
Livibee 95
JuggernautJason72
goblin 28
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2115
Shuttle 324
Mini 226
EffOrt 143
UpATreeSC 123
Dewaltoss 117
actioN 108
Dota 2
Pyrionflax186
LuMiX1
League of Legends
C9.Mang0166
Counter-Strike
fl0m4676
byalli1620
Fnx 1619
rGuardiaN89
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby2792
Other Games
summit1g3117
FrodaN2801
Beastyqt913
tarik_tv606
shahzam458
Liquid`Hasu343
allub308
Fuzer 147
QueenE78
KnowMe77
ZombieGrub38
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 34
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 49
• Reevou 6
• mYiSmile11
• Kozan
• Laughngamez YouTube
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix8
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3263
League of Legends
• Nemesis2750
• TFBlade1346
Other Games
• imaqtpie5127
• Shiphtur237
Upcoming Events
RongYI Cup
13h 35m
ByuN vs TriGGeR
herO vs Rogue
OSC
13h 35m
herO vs Clem
Cure vs TBD
Solar vs TBD
Classic vs TBD
RongYI Cup
1d 13h
Clem vs ShoWTimE
Zoun vs Bunny
Big Brain Bouts
1d 19h
Serral vs TBD
RongYI Cup
2 days
SHIN vs Creator
Classic vs Percival
OSC
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
RongYI Cup
3 days
Maru vs Cyan
Solar vs Krystianer
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
OSC
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-20
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.