So, to start off, this is not a guide for people who want to start. This is about me deciding to start, because frankly, 40k got too fucking expensive.
Anyways, so step one, last night, I visited the Wizards website, watched some videos about the basics of the game, read the deck lists, and got thoroughly fucking confused by various chunks of terminology, mixed with a vague idea of how the game progresses.
So, armed with just enough knowledge to sound like the total nublet I am, I went down to Mothership Books and Games, just down the road in Austin. I went there mostly because I fondly remembered the free drinks they were paying for at a Barcraft last year.
Anyways, young son by my side, I strode in the door around noon, just after opening, and started asking the noob questions, of a guy working the counter who conveniently made it clear he was the perfect guy to talk to, just by having a tattoo of the various mana symbols (which I recognized from those videos last night) on his arm.
So, he offered to show me how to play, and grabbed some beginners decks. I chose black, so he was using red (my son isn't quite old enough to be learning that complicated of a game, although he IS old enough to not be trying to eat the cards).
Anyways, after about a half hour, I won, since he took pity and didn't keep pumping some stupid little dragon thingy to crush my soul, probably figuring I was less likely to think the game was retarded and never come back. So he let me keep the starter packs (30 cards, common and uncommon, according to some quick google work), and advised me a bit on how to get an intro deck.
So, anyways, here's me, in possession of a handful of cards that would probably make most people vomit, not a regulation deck, from what I can tell, unless I combine the two, and even then, probably a terrible one.
I've pretty much decided that the next step, then, is to go find an intro deck (they were totally sold out), and from looking at the card lists, I think I'm pretty much sold on the Sole Domination Core 13 set.
So, anyways, I decided that means that, aside from actually getting my hands on one, which seems like it may involve selling my soul or committing a few felonies, the next obvious step is to get advice from people who actually have a fucking clue how this game works, and see if any of them have any tips for de-bloating an intro deck, since I doubt they come off the shelf "perfect".
You're gonna wanna visit the TL MTG THREAD for this. Despite it saying Magic Online it is really just a general MTG discussion, and pretty active.
Just worry about learning how to play right now. If you were looking to save money by switching into starting a brand new MTG collection....well good luck with that.
You should have some idea of what you want to do with MTG. Are you interested in like playing competitively and tourneys? Just casually with some bros down at the cardshop? Anyway, the guys in the thread are who you want to talk to.
On January 24 2013 06:57 sob3k wrote: You're gonna wanna visit the TL MTG THREAD for this. Despite it saying Magic Online it is really just a general MTG discussion, and pretty active.
Just worry about learning how to play right now. If you were looking to save money by switching into starting a brand new MTG collection....well good luck with that.
You should have some idea of what you want to do with MTG. Are you interested in like playing competitively and tourneys? Just casually with some bros down at the cardshop? Anyway, the guys in the thread are who you want to talk to.
Thanks for the tip, but that thread wouldn't be that much more confusing from my perspective if it was written in pig-latin binary.
As for how I want to play, I don't know yet. If I enjoy playing it, I'm sure I'd at least enter the smaller local tourneys from time to time.
if your reason for quitting 40k was that it was too fucking expensive, then you might want to rethink playing MTG hahaha
i stopped playing MTG for the same reason as you. started back in 1998, and played pretty competitively (type 1.5, now it's called legacy i think, unless they changed it again) until around 2007. i spent a ton of time on it just because it's so intellectually and strategically stimulating. it teaches you to think clearly, definitively, competitively, logically, and quickly within a rules-based arena with imperfect information.
there are definitely ways to play that aren't expensive (you can draft or do sealed deck), but the urge to play some of the popular formats will come.
On January 24 2013 06:57 sob3k wrote: You're gonna wanna visit the TL MTG THREAD for this. Despite it saying Magic Online it is really just a general MTG discussion, and pretty active.
Just worry about learning how to play right now. If you were looking to save money by switching into starting a brand new MTG collection....well good luck with that.
You should have some idea of what you want to do with MTG. Are you interested in like playing competitively and tourneys? Just casually with some bros down at the cardshop? Anyway, the guys in the thread are who you want to talk to.
Thanks for the tip, but that thread wouldn't be that much more confusing from my perspective if it was written in pig-latin binary.
As for how I want to play, I don't know yet. If I enjoy playing it, I'm sure I'd at least enter the smaller local tourneys from time to time.
well obviously, ignore whatever they are talking about and ask them for starter advice
On January 24 2013 07:24 ieatkids5 wrote: if your reason for quitting 40k was that it was too fucking expensive, then you might want to rethink playing MTG hahaha
i stopped playing MTG for the same reason as you. started back in 1998, and played pretty competitively (type 1.5, now it's called legacy i think, unless they changed it again) until around 2007. i spent a ton of time on it just because it's so intellectually and strategically stimulating. it teaches you to think clearly, definitively, competitively, logically, and quickly within a rules-based arena with imperfect information.
there are definitely ways to play that aren't expensive (you can draft or do sealed deck), but the urge to play some of the popular formats will come.
To turn my reasonably viable (if not top notch competitive) 40k Tyranids list into something viable under the new Tyranids rules, I'd be looking in the $200+ range before I could really even play with them against anything.
Magic, from what I can tell, a ~$40 initial investment can get you at least somewhat viable. No painting (both boon and bane, toddlers and miniature assembly/painting do NOT fucking mix).
Sure, the top end costs are probably similar, but entry level time and money investment seems a lot lower on Magic.
For de-bloating a premade deck (and building a deck in general):
Play the deck a few times and get a feel for what cards you like and which you don't. Any cards you don't like (or don't get too excited about when you draw them), take them out to get up to 4 copies of the cards you do like.
Most important thing is to just play your deck a lot (goldfish if you don't have someone to play with-- just play out the turns against nobody, it can help get the "feel" of a deck) and trim out the cards that you don't enjoy or that feel "worthless" whenever you draw them. If you have a deck full of cards you like to draw and cast, you'll have more fun (and it will probably be a better deck)
Making that deck more competitive (in a casual sense) is a lot like refining a starcraft build, you find out what can beat you by losing to it, and then look for cards to add/remove to become more robust.
I taught my wife how to play in a very similar way; I built her a basic deck w/cards and generally stuck to one or two copies per card, but kept extra copies on hand in a stack. After a few games she had a good idea of which cards were helping the most and which were just meh and she'd tuned the deck into something much better.
I used to play casually like 12-13 years ago and it is really a lot of fun, but a bit confusing at first and a bit costly to start collecting. I've been considering starting again, but I've got other places for my money to go at the moment.
It is as expensive as you want it to be, if you want to go into a constructed format grand prix thinking you have a chance of taking the whole thing, yea you will probably have to spend a lot, but to be competitive at your local tournaments and FNM's you can get by super cheaply
Well, a fun little update, after 3 giant retail stores and no more card shops, since I was advised that they'd never have stock, I actually found the intro pack I wanted. (Also the only Core 13 intro pack I saw all day). I'd hate to be a 12 year old with an allowance trying to start this hobby.
It's like the collectible cards are the #1 barrier to entry for newbs.
I find the Magic games on Steam http://store.steampowered.com/app/97330/ (other platforms too, like iPad) are actually really good for introductions to the game. And for the price you get to play with quite a few cards, the deck building is limited which is a big part of magic but it's still good fun.
On January 24 2013 09:09 GogoKodo wrote: I find the Magic games on Steam (other platforms too, like iPad) are actually really good for introductions to the game. And for the price you get to play with quite a few cards, the deck building is limited which is a big part of magic but it's still good fun.
I'd be more likely to keep doing it if I did it as a more social thing, and my wife would punch me in the dick if I got the physical cards and the Steam game both.
Also buy bulk basic lands, at least 50 of each. Nothing sucks more than not having enough lands.
I find Theme decks (60 card ones) to have too steep of a mana curve (cards cost too much to play). Core decks (40card) don't have more than 2 copies of each card (bar basic lands) so buying 2 of the same core deck, you can usually make a pretty decent deck.
I prefer playing a white mix. Out of curiosity which intro deck did you get? White, Blue, Black, Red or Green?
I recently got back into magic after a 12 year break. I built a mono-red deck to start out with and just muck around in standard. I play once or twice a week at my local shop and it's been great fun. My deck is solid and worth maybe $80 in its current form (as compared to the $500+ for some top tier lists). I wish I could say that's all the money I've spent... it's so ridiculously easy to drop money on this game. I've updated one of my old legacy brews and I'm building a couple of modern decks too. It's too late for me now... save yourself XD
I totally feel you on the 40k thing. GW is being such a PiTA right now. I second the friday night magic recommendation
You can also buy what's called a 'deck builder box' that is *really* good value for someone starting out. You get 20 of each basic land, 125 all purpose commons and uncommons and four type 2 boosters, for pretty much the same cost as the four boosters by themselves. Some brick and mortar stores stock them, but your best bet is online.
unboxing of the kit here:
That said, to play competitively magic is very expensive. Not quite GW absurdity, but a good deck will either take you years to build or hundreds of dollars. For example I have a mono red goblin deck from back in Onslaught days that would probably be worth $2-300 dollars if I sold it. If you want to just play for fun rather than deckbuilding fo'serious, just grab a couple of the above deck builder kits and play at sealed and draft tournaments. They're usually the best value way of getting cards, and everyone plays on an even footing.
On January 24 2013 09:09 GogoKodo wrote: I find the Magic games on Steam (other platforms too, like iPad) are actually really good for introductions to the game. And for the price you get to play with quite a few cards, the deck building is limited which is a big part of magic but it's still good fun.
I'd be more likely to keep doing it if I did it as a more social thing, and my wife would punch me in the dick if I got the physical cards and the Steam game both.
I was actually going to come in and suggest duels of the planeswalkers (the steam/xbox arcade game).
Not a social experience, and not an exact replica of the game. But in terms of getting a basic handle on some mechanics and on certain ... themes that decks get built around, it's a decent primer, and you get to play with a large variety of cards for a small cost.
Physical cards can cost about as much as you want them to, depending on how much you enjoy the game and how much self control you have. You start seeing cards that you want to build a deck around, or that look like they might fit in your deck, or a new set comes out, and all of a sudden you're making a bunch of little purchases that add up. That's another plus to duels--you pretty much CAN'T suddenly realize you've made a bunch of $4 purchases that add up to a number you don't like looking at.
On January 24 2013 10:03 iTzSnypah wrote: Friday Night Magic.
Also buy bulk basic lands, at least 50 of each. Nothing sucks more than not having enough lands.
I find Theme decks (60 card ones) to have too steep of a mana curve (cards cost too much to play). Core decks (40card) don't have more than 2 copies of each card (bar basic lands) so buying 2 of the same core deck, you can usually make a pretty decent deck.
I prefer playing a white mix. Out of curiosity which intro deck did you get? White, Blue, Black, Red or Green?
I research cards/popular decks there, can also buy.
Sole Domination, the Black/White Exalted deck.
Just got back from playing a couple games down at the shop, won a 1v1, lost a 1v1, lost a couple 3 ways, and won a 2v2.
Exalted, flying, life link is a terrifying combination, assuming you get the cards you need on the field. But this one dude's green/white/blue deck focused around pumping the shit out of tramplers was also scary. The only way to beat him was to get a lot of flying/lifelink down really fast to kill him.
After playing WH40k and MTG for years, i can say that both are crazy expensive. Unless you're playing draft twice a week you will be feeling that wallet getting lighter and lighter. However, atleast with WH40k you can get a 2500 point army and be able to sit on that forever unlike MTG where you will be shelling out money when new expansions hit and when the core set switches. I always tell myself that if i ever get rich someday I will go back to playing both lol.
On January 24 2013 21:06 lubu42 wrote: After playing WH40k and MTG for years, i can say that both are crazy expensive. Unless you're playing draft twice a week you will be feeling that wallet getting lighter and lighter. However, atleast with WH40k you can get a 2500 point army and be able to sit on that forever unlike MTG where you will be shelling out money when new expansions hit and when the core set switches. I always tell myself that if i ever get rich someday I will go back to playing both lol.
I'm finding the difference to be the investment over time. My wife won't murder me spending a little money here and there, but the process of making my Tyranids not get pulped by roughly everything under the current rules would require dropping probably $150+ at once, with a continued investment, rather than ~$20 with a continued (smaller increments) investment.
To be honest, the intro decks are godawful and probably don't resemble viable decks in any way. If you want to play Magic in a cheap way and have just as much fun, I highly recommend playing draft. It's only a 3 booster cost per draft with the chance to win more, and it's nice because everyone is on an equal footing regardless of money spent.
On January 25 2013 07:29 Shaddar wrote: To be honest, the intro decks are godawful and probably don't resemble viable decks in any way. If you want to play Magic in a cheap way and have just as much fun, I highly recommend playing draft. It's only a 3 booster cost per draft with the chance to win more, and it's nice because everyone is on an equal footing regardless of money spent.
Meh, it's a little late for that, although I do plan to play some draft. Hopefully, the shop sells basic land packs on the cheap.
To be fair, with some lucky draws off the deck I bought, it did pull out a rather impressive win against a terrifying green/white/blue deck last night.
With some improvements, I'm hoping to make it fairly viable.
The other MTG thread directed me to Tappedout, so here's current form, plus stuff I'm considering.
On January 25 2013 07:29 Shaddar wrote: To be honest, the intro decks are godawful and probably don't resemble viable decks in any way. If you want to play Magic in a cheap way and have just as much fun, I highly recommend playing draft. It's only a 3 booster cost per draft with the chance to win more, and it's nice because everyone is on an equal footing regardless of money spent.
Meh, it's a little late for that, although I do plan to play some draft. Hopefully, the shop sells basic land packs on the cheap.
To be fair, with some lucky draws off the deck I bought, it did pull out a rather impressive win against a terrifying green/white/blue deck last night.
With some improvements, I'm hoping to make it fairly viable.
The other MTG thread directed me to Tappedout, so here's current form, plus stuff I'm considering.
I don't really want to comment on the decklist for fear of giving awful advice, but I'd suggest checking out the MTG salvation forums. They have forums about current viable decks, as well as advice for building decent decks on a budget. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20.
If you want inexpensive, don't choose Magic. A good alternative is Dominion. $50 for hundreds of cards, much more BANG for your buck. However, there are weaknesses that Dominion has, which Magic simply does not have at all. Both are great games and I reccomend(Can't get spelling of that word right since spell check thinks I mean recondite lolol) trying both out.
I'm going to second the recommendation to play the Steam (or XBLA) games before you sink into paper Magic. They go on sale fairly regularly for $5 or so, and while you won't be playing with competitive decks, you'll get a reasonable grasp of how the game plays like.
MTG actually isn't that expensive, for a hundred bucks you can make a pretty good deck. That being said, for 20-40 bucks you can make a pretty good deck to play with other casuals, not the hardcore players. The price will really depend on the crowd you hang around with. How much money the people you play with spend will reflect back on you. Check out decks from pro players to get a feel of what cards are actually good.
EPT
