• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:55
CET 17:55
KST 01:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !3Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win2Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1430 users

A Capitalist Defends EG

Blogs > Arcane86
Post a Reply
Arcane86
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States68 Posts
January 17 2013 15:34 GMT
#1
Gvien the recent dialog about journalism, I want to defend EGs perspective in a way that doesn’t seem to be happening right now. More importantly, I want to synthesize a lot of what has been discussed to take a more comprehensive, and capitalist, view of what is unfolding.

Let me begin with the “capitalist perspective.” This merely states that each character should act in his own (long-term) financial best interest. This means starting with how these characters make their money.

Mr. Baer noted that good journalism is about access to information. Thus, a journalist’s financial interest is in releasing information.

It is then important to ask, how does a journalist gain access to information? LiquidNazgul answered this for us: relationships with the source of information. Relationships are critical to a journalist’s income.

If relationships with teams matter, then the journalist must always consider the financial interests of the source. In our case, we’re looking at Slasher and EG. So what is EG’s financial interest?

EG is primarily a marketing organization (See ItG ep58 and others). Thus, EG’s financial interest is in controlling the flow of information. We immediately see the tension.

Since releasing information is always in the direct financial interest of the journalist, let’s look at how information release via Slasher impacts EG, and therefore, his relationship with EG.

A: Mutually beneficial
- e.g. An exclusive interview or a joint press release.
- This generates positive press for EG. Because EG is a marketing-driven organization, these have serious impacts on EG’s bottom line, and have a more outsized-positive impact on the relationship between EG and Slasher.

B: Neutral
- e.g. Idra goes 0-4 in MLG groups
- Ultimately neutral or even very slightly negative press isn’t a bad thing, because it keeps EG in the conversation. Again, as a marketing-driven organization, traffic is usually good. So this will, at worst, have no impact on the relationship.

C. Bad for EG
- e.g. Journalist tweeting “Jaedong to EG”
- Alex Garfield pointed out, because EG is a marketing-driven organization, these pre-emptive announcements have a big negative impact on EG’s bottom line, moreso than for a traditional sports team. The bigger the negative impact on EG’s bottom line, the more it hurts his relationship with EG, thus reducing the future ease with which Slasher will gain information to publish.

In light of this, should EG embargo Slasher? All that matters is what is in EG’s best interest. Gamestop may dislike such an embargo and retaliate somehow, and the chain of consequences continues. From a capitalist perspective, the correct decision maximizes their long-term financial interests. Neither altruism nor spite are appropriate justifications for a choice.

Most importantly, noone should spite EG for looking out for its own financial interests. It’s a business. The survival and proliferation of strictly for-profit businesses is the only real sign that eSports is a legitimate “industry” and not a glorified hobby.

Conclusion: Just as EG shouldn’t expect Slasher to respect their wishes, access to EG is something that Slasher shouldn’t take for granted, and that’s the way the system is supposed to work.


Afterthoughts:
Many (including all journalists) will say that, in an “ideal” world, all information should be always public. But we must remember that for all information to be always publishable is always in the best financial interests of the journalist.

In a “free” economy with “freedom of the press” the point is simply to ensure that each organization is free of influence from the government, and has nothing to do with influence on each other. Monopoly-busting regulation is one of the only things that is supposed to govern how business interact with each other (including press organizations).

In a PR battle between “Organization v. The Press,” also remember that “The Press” has much more experience and leverage when it comes to getting a message out, because getting messages out is simply what they do, and what is always in their financial interests. Thus, be mindful of the fact that, in such a situation, you will always see overwhelmingly more contribution from journalists protecting journalists than “business-people” protecting “business-people”. In this case, journalists defending themselves is simply “doing their jobs.” It is quite convenient.

Journalists provide a necessary and valuable service to the world. If that weren’t true, noone would get paid to do it. But journalism is not above reproach. I don’t blame any journalists for defending other journalists. But we must be mindful of the inherent incentives and biases within a system. I hope EG and Slasher can resolve this in a mutually beneficial way - I love me my eSports news.

**
There is no Cow Level
divito
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada1213 Posts
January 17 2013 17:17 GMT
#2
I planned on writing something up regarding the relationships involved in journalism vs. PR, but as an addendum to any such article I might write, I would say that organizations need not look very far if they want to make the most of their own announcements.

The more people that are privy to information, the more likely it is to leak. A basic tenant in most organizations is the aspect of keeping things on a need-to-know basis, especially if it involves somewhat sensible material/information. If that means not letting players, or certain staff aware of the moves happening behind the scenes, that's one route to take.

If you're going to argue that you want to keep an open and fluid organization, you might have to get NDAs signed with partners (and even your own staff/players), and outside sources in whatever deals, promotions or moves you're making, if you're truly committed to being the ones orchestrating and announcing the information.

For someone as business-savvy as Alex, I'm surprised a lot of this has taken place. I'm sure we can definitely expect some changes in the future.
Skype: divito7
rotegirte
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany2859 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-17 23:19:42
January 17 2013 17:36 GMT
#3
The problem is that we have no insight into what kind of deal would be worth cooperating for both sides, since no one knows EG's nor Slasher/Gamespots numbers. Plus, it's not exactly easy to predict certain what-if scenarios even for those having access to the metrics.

It's an open secret that it's about leverage and as a consequence about money. Two basic approaches would assume either:

  1. There is a set amount of money
    It's about distribution. So neither EG nor Slasher are inherently wrong in trying to get the biggest share out of it. They are in fact, doing their jobs to the best of their ability (within legal and certain moral constraints) . Of course, it's the most simplistic way to look at it. But it is sufficient to cover the first of the teams' arguments: That Slasher is effectively "stealing" money from them. The point of contention would be whether it was theirs to begin with, since the traffic never existed before the information became public. In my opinion, there is too little debate about such a fundamental aspect.

  2. There is growth and decay
    It includes the first approach, but with the notion that certain behaviors can either promote, stunt, invert growth, or be neutral. So instead of the question, which contribution yields what share, there is additionally the consideration of what contribution has what kind and how much impact. It is one thing to discuss which behaviors would be desirable, another to actuate a specific actor to do so. In absence of a binding governing body, it is accomplished through multilateral agreements, a system of incentives and repercussions and public judgment. Of course, everybody will plead in favor of themselves. The discussion to be had is to what extent we collectively deem those pledges reasonable. A simple "anything that hurts X in any way is always bad" is in my opinion insufficient.



In comes the problem I introduced at the start. Eventually, it is up to the individual actor to run his numbers. When frictions arise, it can be a sign of misjudgment. It also can be due to incompatibility of objectives and expectations. To put it simple, negotiations were not successful. Having the numbers of each side would help public judgment. Alas, there are sensible reasons not to publish them.

It leaves us unable to accurately state how much a certain actor would gain from a specific deal. We can only gather from a failed deal that obviously one or all parties deemed the deal not worth it.
Dracolich70
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark3820 Posts
January 17 2013 23:07 GMT
#4
Capitalism is always about hiding behind "the world is not ideal".
LiangHao
dongmydrum
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States139 Posts
January 18 2013 10:51 GMT
#5
On January 18 2013 08:07 Dracolich70 wrote:
Capitalism is always about hiding behind "the world is not ideal".

boo hoo comrade, capitalism doesn't hide. its invisible

On a more serious note, obviously there is no right or wrong answer here. This isn't watergate and no crime has been committed. Some sports teams let reporters have scoops but controls pertinent information (such as who's injured and who won't be playing etc etc.). The relationship between EG and Slasher is strictly between them and its up to how they deal with each other. Obviously we don't want EG to have so much power that they control every bit of information about them, but also think how "the decision" would have sucked if someone leaked to which team Lebron was going. We should only care if the balance of power shifts too much to one side.
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
January 18 2013 13:29 GMT
#6
On January 18 2013 08:07 Dracolich70 wrote:
Capitalism is always about hiding behind "the world is not ideal".


amusing part is capitalism is only justified when the world *is* ideal.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-18 19:35:49
January 18 2013 19:34 GMT
#7
On January 18 2013 00:34 Arcane86 wrote:
The survival and proliferation of strictly for-profit businesses is the only real sign that eSports is a legitimate “industry” and not a glorified hobby.


Who cares about that?

What's wrong with glorified hobbies?

that's what it IS
shikata ga nai
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV 2025
12:00
Playoffs
MaxPax vs ShamelessLIVE!
ByuN vs TBD
Spirit vs ShoWTimE
WardiTV1529
ComeBackTV 748
TaKeTV 411
IndyStarCraft 229
Rex124
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 229
LamboSC2 121
Rex 121
ProTech118
BRAT_OK 71
trigger 37
DivinesiaTV 22
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 25547
Calm 2433
Shuttle 1440
Jaedong 955
EffOrt 483
actioN 461
Hyuk 334
ggaemo 281
Soma 134
Zeus 133
[ Show more ]
Larva 125
Mong 122
Hyun 111
Rush 110
Movie 69
Mind 66
PianO 66
sas.Sziky 38
Bonyth 34
Rock 33
Shinee 29
Dewaltoss 26
Aegong 24
yabsab 15
Shine 9
Noble 6
Terrorterran 3
Dota 2
Gorgc5434
singsing3643
qojqva3092
Dendi772
syndereN342
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps806
Foxcn359
oskar88
Other Games
FrodaN903
Beastyqt665
hiko656
Fuzer 326
RotterdaM178
Sick162
ArmadaUGS109
XaKoH 98
ceh982
QueenE75
Mew2King71
Trikslyr48
Livibee36
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 17
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV485
League of Legends
• Nemesis2003
• TFBlade928
Upcoming Events
OSC
5m
YoungYakov vs Mixu
ForJumy vs TBD
Percival vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
The PondCast
17h 5m
WardiTV 2025
20h 5m
Cure vs Creator
TBD vs Solar
WardiTV 2025
1d 18h
OSC
1d 21h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
Ladder Legends
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.