• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:48
CEST 06:48
KST 13:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles7[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL76
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Server Blocker RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone Script to open stream directly using middle click
Tourneys
2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 564 users

A Capitalist Defends EG

Blogs > Arcane86
Post a Reply
Arcane86
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States68 Posts
January 17 2013 15:34 GMT
#1
Gvien the recent dialog about journalism, I want to defend EGs perspective in a way that doesn’t seem to be happening right now. More importantly, I want to synthesize a lot of what has been discussed to take a more comprehensive, and capitalist, view of what is unfolding.

Let me begin with the “capitalist perspective.” This merely states that each character should act in his own (long-term) financial best interest. This means starting with how these characters make their money.

Mr. Baer noted that good journalism is about access to information. Thus, a journalist’s financial interest is in releasing information.

It is then important to ask, how does a journalist gain access to information? LiquidNazgul answered this for us: relationships with the source of information. Relationships are critical to a journalist’s income.

If relationships with teams matter, then the journalist must always consider the financial interests of the source. In our case, we’re looking at Slasher and EG. So what is EG’s financial interest?

EG is primarily a marketing organization (See ItG ep58 and others). Thus, EG’s financial interest is in controlling the flow of information. We immediately see the tension.

Since releasing information is always in the direct financial interest of the journalist, let’s look at how information release via Slasher impacts EG, and therefore, his relationship with EG.

A: Mutually beneficial
- e.g. An exclusive interview or a joint press release.
- This generates positive press for EG. Because EG is a marketing-driven organization, these have serious impacts on EG’s bottom line, and have a more outsized-positive impact on the relationship between EG and Slasher.

B: Neutral
- e.g. Idra goes 0-4 in MLG groups
- Ultimately neutral or even very slightly negative press isn’t a bad thing, because it keeps EG in the conversation. Again, as a marketing-driven organization, traffic is usually good. So this will, at worst, have no impact on the relationship.

C. Bad for EG
- e.g. Journalist tweeting “Jaedong to EG”
- Alex Garfield pointed out, because EG is a marketing-driven organization, these pre-emptive announcements have a big negative impact on EG’s bottom line, moreso than for a traditional sports team. The bigger the negative impact on EG’s bottom line, the more it hurts his relationship with EG, thus reducing the future ease with which Slasher will gain information to publish.

In light of this, should EG embargo Slasher? All that matters is what is in EG’s best interest. Gamestop may dislike such an embargo and retaliate somehow, and the chain of consequences continues. From a capitalist perspective, the correct decision maximizes their long-term financial interests. Neither altruism nor spite are appropriate justifications for a choice.

Most importantly, noone should spite EG for looking out for its own financial interests. It’s a business. The survival and proliferation of strictly for-profit businesses is the only real sign that eSports is a legitimate “industry” and not a glorified hobby.

Conclusion: Just as EG shouldn’t expect Slasher to respect their wishes, access to EG is something that Slasher shouldn’t take for granted, and that’s the way the system is supposed to work.


Afterthoughts:
Many (including all journalists) will say that, in an “ideal” world, all information should be always public. But we must remember that for all information to be always publishable is always in the best financial interests of the journalist.

In a “free” economy with “freedom of the press” the point is simply to ensure that each organization is free of influence from the government, and has nothing to do with influence on each other. Monopoly-busting regulation is one of the only things that is supposed to govern how business interact with each other (including press organizations).

In a PR battle between “Organization v. The Press,” also remember that “The Press” has much more experience and leverage when it comes to getting a message out, because getting messages out is simply what they do, and what is always in their financial interests. Thus, be mindful of the fact that, in such a situation, you will always see overwhelmingly more contribution from journalists protecting journalists than “business-people” protecting “business-people”. In this case, journalists defending themselves is simply “doing their jobs.” It is quite convenient.

Journalists provide a necessary and valuable service to the world. If that weren’t true, noone would get paid to do it. But journalism is not above reproach. I don’t blame any journalists for defending other journalists. But we must be mindful of the inherent incentives and biases within a system. I hope EG and Slasher can resolve this in a mutually beneficial way - I love me my eSports news.

**
There is no Cow Level
divito
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada1213 Posts
January 17 2013 17:17 GMT
#2
I planned on writing something up regarding the relationships involved in journalism vs. PR, but as an addendum to any such article I might write, I would say that organizations need not look very far if they want to make the most of their own announcements.

The more people that are privy to information, the more likely it is to leak. A basic tenant in most organizations is the aspect of keeping things on a need-to-know basis, especially if it involves somewhat sensible material/information. If that means not letting players, or certain staff aware of the moves happening behind the scenes, that's one route to take.

If you're going to argue that you want to keep an open and fluid organization, you might have to get NDAs signed with partners (and even your own staff/players), and outside sources in whatever deals, promotions or moves you're making, if you're truly committed to being the ones orchestrating and announcing the information.

For someone as business-savvy as Alex, I'm surprised a lot of this has taken place. I'm sure we can definitely expect some changes in the future.
Skype: divito7
rotegirte
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany2859 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-17 23:19:42
January 17 2013 17:36 GMT
#3
The problem is that we have no insight into what kind of deal would be worth cooperating for both sides, since no one knows EG's nor Slasher/Gamespots numbers. Plus, it's not exactly easy to predict certain what-if scenarios even for those having access to the metrics.

It's an open secret that it's about leverage and as a consequence about money. Two basic approaches would assume either:

  1. There is a set amount of money
    It's about distribution. So neither EG nor Slasher are inherently wrong in trying to get the biggest share out of it. They are in fact, doing their jobs to the best of their ability (within legal and certain moral constraints) . Of course, it's the most simplistic way to look at it. But it is sufficient to cover the first of the teams' arguments: That Slasher is effectively "stealing" money from them. The point of contention would be whether it was theirs to begin with, since the traffic never existed before the information became public. In my opinion, there is too little debate about such a fundamental aspect.

  2. There is growth and decay
    It includes the first approach, but with the notion that certain behaviors can either promote, stunt, invert growth, or be neutral. So instead of the question, which contribution yields what share, there is additionally the consideration of what contribution has what kind and how much impact. It is one thing to discuss which behaviors would be desirable, another to actuate a specific actor to do so. In absence of a binding governing body, it is accomplished through multilateral agreements, a system of incentives and repercussions and public judgment. Of course, everybody will plead in favor of themselves. The discussion to be had is to what extent we collectively deem those pledges reasonable. A simple "anything that hurts X in any way is always bad" is in my opinion insufficient.



In comes the problem I introduced at the start. Eventually, it is up to the individual actor to run his numbers. When frictions arise, it can be a sign of misjudgment. It also can be due to incompatibility of objectives and expectations. To put it simple, negotiations were not successful. Having the numbers of each side would help public judgment. Alas, there are sensible reasons not to publish them.

It leaves us unable to accurately state how much a certain actor would gain from a specific deal. We can only gather from a failed deal that obviously one or all parties deemed the deal not worth it.
Dracolich70
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark3820 Posts
January 17 2013 23:07 GMT
#4
Capitalism is always about hiding behind "the world is not ideal".
LiangHao
dongmydrum
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States139 Posts
January 18 2013 10:51 GMT
#5
On January 18 2013 08:07 Dracolich70 wrote:
Capitalism is always about hiding behind "the world is not ideal".

boo hoo comrade, capitalism doesn't hide. its invisible

On a more serious note, obviously there is no right or wrong answer here. This isn't watergate and no crime has been committed. Some sports teams let reporters have scoops but controls pertinent information (such as who's injured and who won't be playing etc etc.). The relationship between EG and Slasher is strictly between them and its up to how they deal with each other. Obviously we don't want EG to have so much power that they control every bit of information about them, but also think how "the decision" would have sucked if someone leaked to which team Lebron was going. We should only care if the balance of power shifts too much to one side.
Milkis
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
5003 Posts
January 18 2013 13:29 GMT
#6
On January 18 2013 08:07 Dracolich70 wrote:
Capitalism is always about hiding behind "the world is not ideal".


amusing part is capitalism is only justified when the world *is* ideal.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-18 19:35:49
January 18 2013 19:34 GMT
#7
On January 18 2013 00:34 Arcane86 wrote:
The survival and proliferation of strictly for-profit businesses is the only real sign that eSports is a legitimate “industry” and not a glorified hobby.


Who cares about that?

What's wrong with glorified hobbies?

that's what it IS
shikata ga nai
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 5h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 237
StarCraft: Brood War
PianO 3728
Leta 439
Noble 23
Zeus 0
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm120
League of Legends
JimRising 854
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1120
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor201
Other Games
summit1g11448
WinterStarcraft487
ViBE233
RuFF_SC284
ToD54
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick43031
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH288
• Adnapsc2 13
• OhrlRock 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1524
• masondota2469
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5h 12m
RSL Revival
5h 12m
Classic vs Clem
FEL
10h 12m
Elazer vs Spirit
Gerald vs MaNa
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
13h 12m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Wardi Open
1d 6h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.