|
TL DR "there are some things you can't teach and those are often the most valuable things"
Talent is separate from skill. I can’t drive worth a damn. What makes a good driver? One might say, being able to stay alert and concentrate, being aware of your surroundings, knowing the rules and understanding them. I believed that once. I thought it was my inaptitude for such things that made me awful behind the wheel. Later, I learned otherwise.
My friend came to visit me and she had her car so she was driving us around. I thought to myself, oh gosh, this girl is just as spacey and oblivious as me, why is she driving?? As she drove, I realized she really did not have any clue what was going on. But she was managing. She was actually *good* somehow. Where did that come from?
It was not any one skill that I lacked and she had, It was just a natural aptitude that doesn’t have a name. It is separate from all separate skills and it is what matters most.
In music, I have found this idea to have application. My motor control is very poor in my fingers, my voice is tinny, flat and reedy and I know nothing of musical theory and yet I can communicate the emotions of music better than others who have good voices and dexterity with their instruments.
In starcraft this is true too. One guy has the macro, the control, the micro and yet it is the guy with the unexplainably good game sense (stephano) that wins.
This phenomenon is related to "swag" which is another of the intangible but understood parts of human experience. "It definitely has to do with swag. I'm absolutely certain of this." Swag is when a person is ugly, does not wear the best clothes but the way he/she wears them and presents his/her self is undeniably cool.
Do you guys agree? What can we learn from this?
 
|
Well yeah...some people are just better at certain things than others. Look at Life lol high school GSL and MLG champ. And since you bring up music, Joshua bell was considered to be a prodigy and naturally gifted at the violin when he first came into the scene as a teenager
|
On November 30 2012 02:13 aviator116 wrote:
Well yeah...some people are just better at certain things than others. Look at Life lol high school GSL and MLG champ. And since you bring up music, Joshua bell was considered to be a prodigy and naturally gifted at the violin when he first came into the scene as a teenager
Yes, I guess the message here is to know that in almost every situation someone is going to have it easier than you for things that are just not explainable. So live with it.
|
It definitely has to do with swag. I'm absolutely certain of this.
If you don't get it- talented is what you're called after you practice and become successful. People use cheap words like skilled and talented as they use toilet paper.
|
On November 30 2012 02:23 Probe1 wrote:
It definitely has to do with swag. I'm absolutely certain of this.
If you don't get it- talented is what you're called after you practice and become successful. People use cheap words like skilled and talented as they use toilet paper.
Talent is closer to what i am describing... but talent is something that can be brought to frution by developing skills. What this lil piece is about, is the thing that people start with and it is already just good.. and it is like "the big picture".
Like for example a player may not have the APM to compete with another player but he just knows that intuitively and finds a way to make the game in his favour. Hmm I think the TL DR for this blog is "there are some things you can't teach and oftren they are the most valuable things"
|
There's little basis to think any of the things you mentioned can't be trained. I would wager any of them could, in principle, be taught. It is simply a matter of knowing how to teach it, which is very often difficult to discern. Some people develop a set of tacit knowledge that serves them well in various endeavors, and people are quick to label this as "talent" or "genius" or some other lazy, hackneyed term that explains nothing and makes intelligent inquiry into the reality far less likely. The factors that actually play into the extraordinary development of any skill or "talent" are pretty much impossible to collate and consider in their entirety.
We don't know why Stephano has the atypically solid game sense that he does because we have no idea what his entire life's circumstances have been up to this point, nor what has been happening in his mind from a young age, or even what he has done differently from other professional players in the last two years. There are endless possibilities for explanation that go beyond him just being "talented," a word which, I want to reiterate, is largely an empty husk used to denote our ignorance of the actual causes. Was it his diet? How he was raised or schooled? The games he played before SC2? Some aspect of his psychological approach to the game? His more relaxed practice schedule which allowed more time for reflection? Some combination of these and other factors? On and on, the reality is far more interesting than throwing up our hands and saying he is "talented."
|
Well, you keep failing at life and complaining about how other people are talented, and the rest of us will work hard and develop skills.
|
lazy < hard-working < talented < lucky
Well, probably not mutually exclusive, but luck #1 imo. Some say you can make your own luck...
|
Great posts guys. I guess it is lazy thinking that i have employed. I write very with ego and hedonism as i do other things. Thanks for your time
|
Talents are the tools you're given. Skill is how you use those tools to achieve a desired result.
Talents can be anything ranging from genetics to environment - doesn't really matter. The point is that you are born with talent, but it means jack shit if you don't put it to good use. If you weren't born with a certain talent, that's not going to keep you from accomplishing what you want. Much like if you were building a housing structure of some sort, and you had wood and nails, but no hammer. Just because you have no hammer, doesn't mean you can't build a house now - you just need to find something else that can be a hammer. Like a rock.
|
There is no talent, sorry.
e. To expand on that point: I think those are all skills, the way they are acquired and how they show are different and you don't recognize said ways.
|
On November 30 2012 03:45 HwangjaeTerran wrote:
There is no talent, sorry.
e. To expand on that point: I think those are all skills, the way they are acquired and how they show are different and you don't recognize said ways.
In basketball, being tall is a talent, not a skill. It can't be acquired. Now, of course being tall doesn't make one automatically a good player, but you can't deny that generally being tall is more advantageous than being short unless we're talking about already tall players.
|
On November 30 2012 04:08 dongmydrum wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 03:45 HwangjaeTerran wrote:
There is no talent, sorry.
e. To expand on that point: I think those are all skills, the way they are acquired and how they show are different and you don't recognize said ways. In basketball, being tall is a talent, not a skill. It can't be acquired. Now, of course being tall doesn't make one automatically a good player, but you can't deny that generally being tall is more advantageous than being short unless we're talking about already tall players.
Therefore being tall is an advantage to aspiring basketball players, not a talent. "Talent" implies that you are some how born with the necessary skills to excel at something. I can guarantee there are millions of tall people who are shit at basketball. I agree with HwangjaeTerran, talent does not exist.
|
On November 30 2012 04:19 PandaTank wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 04:08 dongmydrum wrote:On November 30 2012 03:45 HwangjaeTerran wrote:
There is no talent, sorry.
e. To expand on that point: I think those are all skills, the way they are acquired and how they show are different and you don't recognize said ways. In basketball, being tall is a talent, not a skill. It can't be acquired. Now, of course being tall doesn't make one automatically a good player, but you can't deny that generally being tall is more advantageous than being short unless we're talking about already tall players. Therefore being tall is an advantage to aspiring basketball players, not a talent. "Talent" implies that you are some how born with the necessary skills to excel at something. I can guarantee there are millions of tall people who are shit at basketball. I agree with HwangjaeTerran, talent does not exist.
Talent is something you're born with, but it's not skill like you keep describing it. Talent is a tool, and without a good mind, a tool is worthless. You can give a grand piano to the son of a musical genius, but he won't be good at it just because he has the genetics and the piano - He has to put forth effort. Now, his effort may need to be less than others because he might have sound fundamentals already since he's the son of a musical genius (provided said musical genius gave his son an environment in which the son would develop these fundamentals).
The point is that talent does exist, and it does affect how you learn things - but don't something like that get in your way of a goal. If you're not born tall, you can still play basketball - you just have to put forth more effort to make yourself look like a good basketball player.
|
On November 30 2012 04:19 PandaTank wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 04:08 dongmydrum wrote:On November 30 2012 03:45 HwangjaeTerran wrote:
There is no talent, sorry.
e. To expand on that point: I think those are all skills, the way they are acquired and how they show are different and you don't recognize said ways. In basketball, being tall is a talent, not a skill. It can't be acquired. Now, of course being tall doesn't make one automatically a good player, but you can't deny that generally being tall is more advantageous than being short unless we're talking about already tall players. Therefore being tall is an advantage to aspiring basketball players, not a talent. "Talent" implies that you are some how born with the necessary skills to excel at something. I can guarantee there are millions of tall people who are shit at basketball. I agree with HwangjaeTerran, talent does not exist.
Yes, i guess it is just a foggy idea "talent". I think talent refers most to the style one uses to achieve the task. It can be good for some things and bad for other things.
THe original post is very unrefined and involves too much subjectiveness from me to be much use. Junky OP. Sorry
|
On November 30 2012 03:13 TroW wrote:
There's little basis to think any of the things you mentioned can't be trained. I would wager any of them could, in principle, be taught. It is simply a matter of knowing how to teach it, which is very often difficult to discern. Some people develop a set of tacit knowledge that serves them well in various endeavors, and people are quick to label this as "talent" or "genius" or some other lazy, hackneyed term that explains nothing and makes intelligent inquiry into the reality far less likely. The factors that actually play into the extraordinary development of any skill or "talent" are pretty much impossible to collate and consider in their entirety.
We don't know why Stephano has the atypically solid game sense that he does because we have no idea what his entire life's circumstances have been up to this point, nor what has been happening in his mind from a young age, or even what he has done differently from other professional players in the last two years. There are endless possibilities for explanation that go beyond him just being "talented," a word which, I want to reiterate, is largely an empty husk used to denote our ignorance of the actual causes. Was it his diet? How he was raised or schooled? The games he played before SC2? Some aspect of his psychological approach to the game? His more relaxed practice schedule which allowed more time for reflection? Some combination of these and other factors? On and on, the reality is far more interesting than throwing up our hands and saying he is "talented."
That's true. We just don't know enough to talk about this kind of stuff. Great post.
|
I have that natural ability at posting. Huzzah.
|
On November 30 2012 04:19 PandaTank wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 04:08 dongmydrum wrote:On November 30 2012 03:45 HwangjaeTerran wrote:
There is no talent, sorry.
e. To expand on that point: I think those are all skills, the way they are acquired and how they show are different and you don't recognize said ways. In basketball, being tall is a talent, not a skill. It can't be acquired. Now, of course being tall doesn't make one automatically a good player, but you can't deny that generally being tall is more advantageous than being short unless we're talking about already tall players. Therefore being tall is an advantage to aspiring basketball players, not a talent. "Talent" implies that you are some how born with the necessary skills to excel at something. I can guarantee there are millions of tall people who are shit at basketball. I agree with HwangjaeTerran, talent does not exist.
Being tall is a talent in basketball because "generally speaking" the effort and rate at which a tall person becomes a better basketball player is significantly less than those who are not. We say geniuses are talented because they can learn much quicker than other people can. Even if you don't like to use the word "talent" you have to come up with another word to describe such phenomenon because effort isn't the only thing that determines how good somebody can be at anything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
