• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:43
CET 13:43
KST 21:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) RSL Offline FInals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Which season is the best in ASL? Data analysis on 70 million replays BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1555 users

The Last Bonjwa, Part 1

Blogs > Shady Sands
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-26 11:28:24
November 26 2012 10:59 GMT
#1

末 代 本 座



In many ways, (Z)sAviOr was a watershed for Brood War.

+ Show Spoiler +
On a purely non-game level, Savior fucked the scene over with his match-fixing shenanigans. I sincerely believe that had a player of his caliber not gotten involved (e.g. had it just been confined to B-teamers, Lux, and Hwasin) BW would not have died as quickly as it did. But that isn't what this article is about.


Past a certain point (namely, (T)NaDa's final title in 2006) most progamers, I would say, had decent enough micro, macro, and APM that these stopped setting players apart. Yet some players kept winning while others didn't.

Savior was the first progamer to fully apply the three most important modern differentiating concepts of high-level Brood War (and SC2)--what I like to call "build order/passive tactics", "metagame/intuition", and "army positioning/harass/active tactics".

While later players would refine those three concepts into perfection, Savior marks the point at which being good at Brood War stopped being about building new tools to set oneself apart, and instead became about using that existing toolkit better and better.

The toolkit can also be analogized along the lines of three much older games:

1. Build order/passive tactics is most like Go, where the objective is to manage the risk and reward of a "build pattern" to "get bigger and stay bigger" (secure a large economic, tech, or army size advantage) at some point or throughout a particular game.
2. Metagame/intuition is most like Poker, where the objective is to cleverly utilize the fog of war to force the opponent to guess wrong while maximizing your chances of guessing right
3. Army positioning/harass/active tactics is most like Chess, where you are establishing positions with the army you have to inflict disproportionate damage or force a mate.

Certain players post BW epitomized each of these traits or combinations of them, but never all three at once... except for what we now know to be The Last Bonjwa of Broodwar.

[image loading]
Flash's Cyworld Banner, circa 2010.


(T)Flash, primus inter pares of the post-Savior era, started in 2007 as a cheeser and pretty mediocre macrobot, but by 2008, he had pretty much solidified his status as the best "Go" player of Starcraft.

Flash's 2008-11 builds are literally works of art. The first and foremost reason I became a Flash fan is because I like players with good rhythm, and Flash's builds are like listening to a good Nujabes piece--so many different complex, subtle timings stacked on top of each other, always keeping the opponent off balance until the final, devastating, blow. And since they're builds, not battles, and hence, not necessarily even interactive with what the other guy is doing, oftentimes there was no way for the opponent to stop Flash once he got started. Flash winning became inevitable; as soon as an opponent let Flash grasp some small build or timing advantage, he'd use that to force the windows open wider and wider until he was 70 supply ahead of a Protoss or doing 10 (that's right, ten) base Terran mech vs a 4 base Zerg


Flash said he did this strategy in revenge, since Free humiliated his teammate ForGG in game 2 with scouts, the most useless BW Protoss unit. Only Flash can BM like this.


On the flip side, Flash became the best player at dissecting other builds, often on the fly, and prepping his own counter-timings when his opponents had not even seen them in hours of practice.

That was why I fell in love with Flash. Flash brought a sense of harmony to the chaos of Starcraft; he made Brood War make sense for me--it was no longer a game about clicking fast or sexy micro (which never appealed to me), but about making the best calculations on the information available... about making the right choices... and Flash was always right. He was the perfect paragon of logical harmony, and him winning meant all was right and orderly.

Then, in 2009, Flash learned Poker.

****
Что?
Ahzz
Profile Joined May 2007
Finland780 Posts
November 26 2012 11:31 GMT
#2
nice writeup. Funny how I found a two year old broodwar game to be more interesting than a recent SC2 game. Lulz.
NicksonReyes
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Philippines4431 Posts
November 26 2012 11:48 GMT
#3
Can't wait for Flash to "learn" SC2. Flash left all his decision making skills in BW and brought none for SC2.

5/5. Gonna be waiting for the next parts.
"Start yo" -FlaSh
Fueled
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1610 Posts
November 26 2012 13:12 GMT
#4
Very nice post 5/5

Can't wait for Flash to "learn" SC2. Flash left all his decision making skills in BW and brought none for SC2.

You and me both, man.
The Wood League - Where a double gas opening can still mean a Marine/SCV all-in
Wildmoon
Profile Joined December 2011
Thailand4189 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-26 13:57:50
November 26 2012 13:54 GMT
#5
Nice write up. Mvp kinda play this style too and he happened to be the most dominant and successful in SC2. I still remember his final against Life where he lost but he made a perfect mech build to fight against Life and almost beated him if not for derp attack in the end while Flash himself said that you can't beat Life with mech. I am waiting for real Flash to show up in SC2.
fabiano
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Brazil4644 Posts
November 26 2012 13:57 GMT
#6
I personally believe that, unfortunately, SC2 design + current maps + SC2 being purposely incomplete crops out quite a lot of what differentiates a good player from a godly player.

I also think that Flash play style was the most boring of the top players. Watching Bisu and Jaedong playing was 100x more exciting.
"When the geyser died, a probe came out" - SirJolt
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
November 26 2012 14:04 GMT
#7
Flash can't change sc2 but blizzard can ..
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
Caladbolg
Profile Joined March 2011
2855 Posts
November 26 2012 14:46 GMT
#8
Flash isn't the primus inter pares post-Savior. He was the greatest of his generation, a different level entirely.
"I don't like the word prodigy at all. To me prodigy sounds like a person who was 'gifted' all these things rather than a person who earned all these talents by hard training... I must train harder to reach my goal." - Flash
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
November 26 2012 15:07 GMT
#9
On November 26 2012 22:57 fabiano wrote:
I also think that Flash play style was the most boring of the top players. Watching Bisu and Jaedong playing was 100x more exciting.


I think many people found him boring because he won too much.

On November 26 2012 23:46 Caladbolg wrote:
Flash isn't the primus inter pares post-Savior. He was the greatest of his generation, a different level entirely.


In 2008 and early 2009, he was probably one of the lesser among equals. When "he learned poker," as Shady put it, things changed.

Also, @Shady: I'm eager to see how you talk about the "chess" aspect, since Flash was not really the best at micro or tactics... maybe I'm wrong
Writer
ZeaL.
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States5955 Posts
November 26 2012 15:20 GMT
#10
Hwasin was not a B-teamer wtf. He was playing consistently for STX till the end.
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
November 26 2012 15:34 GMT
#11
On November 27 2012 00:20 ZeaL. wrote:
Hwasin was not a B-teamer wtf. He was playing consistently for STX till the end.


he said "B-teamers, Lux, and Hwasin," separating Lux and Hwasin from the "B-teamers."

Of course I don't think Yarnc, type-b, or Upmagic were B-teamers either, so...
Writer
FromShouri
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
United States862 Posts
November 26 2012 16:20 GMT
#12
On November 27 2012 00:20 ZeaL. wrote:
Hwasin was not a B-teamer wtf. He was playing consistently for STX till the end.


He was more a crowd star then someone who was a true A teamer imo around that time.

On November 27 2012 00:34 ]343[ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 27 2012 00:20 ZeaL. wrote:
Hwasin was not a B-teamer wtf. He was playing consistently for STX till the end.


he said "B-teamers, Lux, and Hwasin," separating Lux and Hwasin from the "B-teamers."

Of course I don't think Yarnc, type-b, or Upmagic were B-teamers either, so...


I don't think Go.Go was either but alas, I had forgotten about Upmagic! T.T He was my fav estro terran.
Limited Edition, lets do some simple addition, $50 for a T-Shirt is just some ignorant bitch shit.
Torenhire
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States11681 Posts
November 26 2012 16:31 GMT
#13
On November 27 2012 00:07 ]343[ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 26 2012 22:57 fabiano wrote:
I also think that Flash play style was the most boring of the top players. Watching Bisu and Jaedong playing was 100x more exciting.


I think many people found him boring because he won too much.


That's my thoughts, anyways. One of the reasons I became such a big Shuttle fan was that the kid was like...Brood War Schitzo, sometimes he would show up and be like CHOO CHOO MOTHERFUCKERS ALL ABOARD THE PAIN TRAIN and other days he would show up and look like he picked up Brood War two weeks ago.

I love the inconsistency, it makes the highs higher and the lows lower. Flash was just so stale to watch, it got boring watching him shove people aside and win. The only exciting (okay not only, but 90%) Flash games are ones where he loses because someone had to do some ridiculous shit to try and beat him, and even then it was never an easy win.
SirJolt: Well maybe if you weren't so big and stupid, it wouldn't have hit you.
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
November 26 2012 16:42 GMT
#14
Wait, so Flash never learned Chess ? His perfect turret placement against mutas, the tanks positioning that allowed him to take super fast thirds in TvP, his m&m micro were all trademarks.

Anyway, I am glad that you decide to use your great writing skills to write a piece of Brood War history

5/5
ॐ
Cortza
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
South Africa328 Posts
November 26 2012 17:10 GMT
#15
Really enjoyed reading this and getting to know some of the Brood War history.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33495 Posts
November 26 2012 17:36 GMT
#16
with my curse, may your thread devolve into savior infighting
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
JieXian
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Malaysia4677 Posts
November 26 2012 17:51 GMT
#17
On November 26 2012 19:59 Shady Sands wrote:
Then, in 2009, Flash learned Poker.


Don't get that part... is this about the 2 rax bunkering and 14 CCing?
Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for people to chat about writing and producing music | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noD-bsOcxuU |
Tatari
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1179 Posts
November 26 2012 18:46 GMT
#18
On November 27 2012 02:36 Waxangel wrote:
with my curse, may your thread devolve into savior infighting


Dunno if we should begin packing up or start making the popcorn.
A fed jungler is no longer a jungler, but a terrorist.
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
November 26 2012 19:15 GMT
#19
Enjoyable read but you could just simply describe the first point as "strategy" lol
Writerptrk
Shady Sands
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States4021 Posts
November 26 2012 20:19 GMT
#20
On November 27 2012 02:36 Waxangel wrote:
with my curse, may your thread devolve into savior infighting

You just hate Flash.
Что?
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 17m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 192
Lowko190
ProTech121
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 50099
Calm 4104
Horang2 2177
Shuttle 1386
GuemChi 1213
Hyuk 1150
Jaedong 889
actioN 569
Larva 537
Light 459
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 387
Mini 337
firebathero 319
BeSt 292
Soma 265
Rush 216
Last 211
Zeus 180
Soulkey 154
Snow 150
ZerO 139
Pusan 123
Backho 116
Hyun 114
Sharp 73
ggaemo 55
sorry 53
yabsab 51
Barracks 46
Shine 45
ToSsGirL 45
hero 44
Sea.KH 38
Killer 33
Mong 32
BRAT_OK 30
scan(afreeca) 27
Icarus 24
soO 21
Sacsri 21
Shinee 19
Aegong 19
Bale 18
Noble 12
HiyA 11
JulyZerg 11
Terrorterran 10
SilentControl 10
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Hm[arnc] 6
Dota 2
singsing1934
XcaliburYe193
Dendi166
Counter-Strike
zeus11484
fl0m2326
olofmeister1022
x6flipin580
shoxiejesuss498
Other Games
B2W.Neo775
crisheroes479
Hui .221
KnowMe79
Mew2King63
MindelVK17
ZerO(Twitch)7
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV361
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota262
League of Legends
• Jankos2445
Other Games
• WagamamaTV39
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 17m
Demi vs Mixu
Nicoract vs TBD
Babymarine vs MindelVK
ForJumy vs TBD
Shameless vs Percival
Replay Cast
11h 17m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 14h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 21h
WardiTV 2025
1d 23h
SC Evo League
1d 23h
BSL 21
2 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
OSC
2 days
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV 2025
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
PiGosaur Monday
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV 2025
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-30
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.