• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:15
CEST 15:15
KST 22:15
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-64SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-63PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)9Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE15
StarCraft 2
General
Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Life's Huge Gambling Spree After IEM Katowice 2014
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) INu's Battles #19 2-Days Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game ASL22 General Discussion BW Drama: Terror's Debt Incident + C9 disbanding [Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6 2v2v2v2 Tournament Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The Scarlett Fan Club The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5693 users

My take on the health of competitive SC2

Blogs > TrippSC2
Post a Reply
TrippSC2
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States209 Posts
October 17 2012 21:30 GMT
#1
There have been a plethora of posts on TL and reddit about people's concerns about the health and longevity of the competitive SC2 scene, recently. While I think that some of the concern is valid, I don't buy that the game/industry is destined (no pun intended) to fail in the near future. I do agree that there are some things holding it back, including some things that I don't think people have thought about.

First, I'll start by talking about the points that I agree with.

There is a very real feeling of staleness in the scene. The Korean vs. Foreigner (particularly NA players) dynamic has lost its luster due to foreigners not being as competitive as we had hoped. The KeSPA vs eSF dynamic is still looking fun, but the KeSPA players haven't turned out to be as marketable as the MLG exhibition would have had you believe. The storyline aspect, for whatever reason, seems to not have as strong a presence at events as in the past. I also think there might be a little bit of resistance to this approach going forward, since the hyped storylines haven't emerged as expected.

To top it all off, the meta game in most match-ups hasn't really changed in some time (with the exception of ZvT and possibly ZvZ) leaving us with games being predictable at best and boring at worst. I'll talk on my thoughts on this later, because I think this is bigger than most people have thought about/discussed.

The Arcade and pre-Arcade Custom Games interface are really bad! Arcade is a slight improvement (in the way that spraying perfume on shit makes it smell better), but really misses the point in that the popularity system and lack of named games makes it really hard to discover new maps or find what you're looking for. Everyone plays the customs at the top of the list and nothing else, which is a shame because the Map Editor appears to be really powerful.

There does seem to be a slight over-saturation of large events and a lot of over-saturation of smaller events. This is a double-edged sword that I'll touch on later, but it has been discussed to death in Grubby's thread, so I won't go into depth.

Heart of the Swarm isn't holding a lot of interest in its current state. I do think that it's concerning, but I do think that it will work it's way out before release. In short, I'm reserving judgment.

There is definite room for Blizzard to improve the game. Ignoring the issue of LAN, there are several features that are missing from BW and WC3 and that sucks! The social features of the game is the most lacking. I can't say that social features interest me, but I can see why this would be more desirable for other people and can affect the game's staying power.

Now, on to all the arguments that I disagree with and why.

It seems to be a common viewpoint that Blizzard has regressed substantially, lately. This opinion is usually explained by Activision's influence or corporate greed or something similar. I really don't buy this. Every Blizzard game that I've ever owned has been similar. The game is fun with some problems and they SLOWLY fix them (which they have no obligation to do). The problem is that expectations have changed. Blizzard has gotten to be a very successful company, with success comes increased scrutiny, and I get that. What I reject is the notion that (insert Blizzard game here) was any different. They all had problems. Some were fixed, some weren't. Not much has changed.

In the same vein, the number of events doesn't appear to have changed and the prize money available is still very solid, so I think it's important to not overreact to what's been said. There has been a downturn in viewership and a staleness in events, but I don't think it is anything to panic over.

I don't agree that catering to casual players is the answer to growing the eSports scene.
For one thing, I don't necessarily think that the market for casual play is there. While I see the potential in the Map Editor, consider that casual games are available for phone OSes for cheap prices and that MOBAs are available for free. I'm not sure that there would be a ton of custom games played even if things exactly like BW. I could be wrong, but I'm not convinced that the battle.net UI is totally to blame.
Nazgul made a really solid point that casual players should be supported and not the focus point, and cited Dota2 as an example of a successful eSport game that is build for competitive play that takes this approach. I think that this is the correct approach for SC2.
Also, I don't necessarily think that custom games are the heart of the issue with the current stagnation. Whether you play customs, 1v1, team games, or none seems independent to me to spectating professional games. I can honestly say that whether or not I enjoyed playing SC2, if I still enjoyed watching it, I would continue to watch it. I could be wrong about this, but I fail to see how having a casual game running in the SC2 engine would have any bearing on my enjoyment of professional play and my likelihood to watch it, outside of possibly seeing the SC2 dashboard advertisements.


So, what do I think the problem is? The most common criticism that I read on posts on reddit or TL about the gameplay of SC2 is that it is predictable or stale. Most blame the game design for encouraging death balls, but I believe that the problem is different.

I think the stagnation of tournaments that we're all seeing is primarily caused by the fact that strategy development has stagnated and caused the games to be too predictable. Notice that I'm talking about the games themselves and not game design or anything of that sort. I believe that there is more ground to be covered strategically that hasn't been explored and isn't being explored. You rarely see new builds. When you do, even when they show promise, you will still see the player go back to the standard that is more figured out.

Why has strategy development stagnated? This is where the over-saturation of events comes in. Whenever you hear players talk, they talk about all the tournaments that happen ever weekend and that there are almost no open weekends. Where is the time to practice new strategies? It seems that it is much safer (this is a profession after all!) to make a small tweak on an existing strategy rather than work on new builds that will be a bigger risk, but have a higher reward. The current meta game has come from the strategy/counter-strategy development of the previous two years. I think that outside of the queen patch, this hasn't been happening for several months.

That means death balls. Why death balls? Death ball styles are more figured out than other more harassment-based styles and also require less in terms of practiced execution. After all, if your money is on the line, would you rather do a strategy that can gain you an edge, but has the risk of putting you behind and requires really tight execution or a very safe, standard style that will keep you in a good position without as much risk? If you have limited practice time prior to an event, what are you going to spend that time on? The correct decision seems obvious to me.

Much like the Destiny post, I don't believe that there is much the community can do about this, in general. The free market will ultimately decide which tournaments succeed and fail. If viewership continues to fall, it will lead to less tournaments and hopefully help the root problem. What I can say is that the worst thing that our community can do is support a bad tournament out of feeling obligated to because it "supports eSports."


Anyway, that was a really long post. I'm sorry if it seems a little scattered. I spent a lot of time putting my thoughts in type, so it may end up being a little nonsensical. I look forward to seeing people's thoughts on it.
I still enjoy watching professional Starcraft II and I really hope that it can be made better by more strategic diversity.

Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Weekly
11:00
WardiTV Mondays #98
IntoTheiNu 1432
WardiTV1040
TKL 275
Rex141
Ryung 115
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko384
TKL 275
Rex 141
Ryung 115
ProTech75
SHIN 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 6694
Shuttle 1700
BeSt 1314
Horang2 1110
EffOrt 933
Soma 771
Soulkey 683
Jaedong 654
Snow 325
Light 320
[ Show more ]
ggaemo 279
firebathero 245
Stork 168
Larva 164
Killer 159
Rush 132
hero 127
Mind 107
JYJ 82
Hyun 79
Pusan 62
sorry 58
PianO 57
Sea.KH 50
ToSsGirL 49
Barracks 46
Sharp 34
Terrorterran 32
Noble 27
Bale 26
Icarus 26
Sacsri 20
soO 18
scan(afreeca) 16
HiyA 15
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Yoon 7
Dota 2
Gorgc10827
Dendi1190
syndereN203
qojqva130
Counter-Strike
byalli811
zeus306
Other Games
singsing1970
B2W.Neo990
hiko608
crisheroes306
Mlord199
Fuzer 192
Liquid`LucifroN179
XaKoH 71
Liquid`VortiX67
Mew2King49
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1431
lovetv 11
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2654
• WagamamaTV522
League of Legends
• Jankos1008
• Nemesis617
Upcoming Events
Patches Events
2h 45m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 45m
INu's Battles
21h 45m
Percival vs Zoun
Cure vs Rogue
ByuN vs Classic
Clem vs NightMare
PiGosaur Cup
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
INu's Battles
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Escore
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
RSL Revival: Season 6
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.