• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 11:59
CET 16:59
KST 00:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT29Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains6Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18BSL Season 224Vitality ends partnership with ONSYDE20
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains GSL CK - New online series Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block Weekly Cups (Feb 23-Mar 1): herO doubles, 2v2 bonanza Vitality ends partnership with ONSYDE
Tourneys
[GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion Recent recommended BW games BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Season 22
Tourneys
IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BWCL Season 64 Announcement
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
PC Games Sales Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Gaming-Related Deaths
TrAiDoS
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1567 users

My take on the health of competitive SC2

Blogs > TrippSC2
Post a Reply
TrippSC2
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States209 Posts
October 17 2012 21:30 GMT
#1
There have been a plethora of posts on TL and reddit about people's concerns about the health and longevity of the competitive SC2 scene, recently. While I think that some of the concern is valid, I don't buy that the game/industry is destined (no pun intended) to fail in the near future. I do agree that there are some things holding it back, including some things that I don't think people have thought about.

First, I'll start by talking about the points that I agree with.

There is a very real feeling of staleness in the scene. The Korean vs. Foreigner (particularly NA players) dynamic has lost its luster due to foreigners not being as competitive as we had hoped. The KeSPA vs eSF dynamic is still looking fun, but the KeSPA players haven't turned out to be as marketable as the MLG exhibition would have had you believe. The storyline aspect, for whatever reason, seems to not have as strong a presence at events as in the past. I also think there might be a little bit of resistance to this approach going forward, since the hyped storylines haven't emerged as expected.

To top it all off, the meta game in most match-ups hasn't really changed in some time (with the exception of ZvT and possibly ZvZ) leaving us with games being predictable at best and boring at worst. I'll talk on my thoughts on this later, because I think this is bigger than most people have thought about/discussed.

The Arcade and pre-Arcade Custom Games interface are really bad! Arcade is a slight improvement (in the way that spraying perfume on shit makes it smell better), but really misses the point in that the popularity system and lack of named games makes it really hard to discover new maps or find what you're looking for. Everyone plays the customs at the top of the list and nothing else, which is a shame because the Map Editor appears to be really powerful.

There does seem to be a slight over-saturation of large events and a lot of over-saturation of smaller events. This is a double-edged sword that I'll touch on later, but it has been discussed to death in Grubby's thread, so I won't go into depth.

Heart of the Swarm isn't holding a lot of interest in its current state. I do think that it's concerning, but I do think that it will work it's way out before release. In short, I'm reserving judgment.

There is definite room for Blizzard to improve the game. Ignoring the issue of LAN, there are several features that are missing from BW and WC3 and that sucks! The social features of the game is the most lacking. I can't say that social features interest me, but I can see why this would be more desirable for other people and can affect the game's staying power.

Now, on to all the arguments that I disagree with and why.

It seems to be a common viewpoint that Blizzard has regressed substantially, lately. This opinion is usually explained by Activision's influence or corporate greed or something similar. I really don't buy this. Every Blizzard game that I've ever owned has been similar. The game is fun with some problems and they SLOWLY fix them (which they have no obligation to do). The problem is that expectations have changed. Blizzard has gotten to be a very successful company, with success comes increased scrutiny, and I get that. What I reject is the notion that (insert Blizzard game here) was any different. They all had problems. Some were fixed, some weren't. Not much has changed.

In the same vein, the number of events doesn't appear to have changed and the prize money available is still very solid, so I think it's important to not overreact to what's been said. There has been a downturn in viewership and a staleness in events, but I don't think it is anything to panic over.

I don't agree that catering to casual players is the answer to growing the eSports scene.
For one thing, I don't necessarily think that the market for casual play is there. While I see the potential in the Map Editor, consider that casual games are available for phone OSes for cheap prices and that MOBAs are available for free. I'm not sure that there would be a ton of custom games played even if things exactly like BW. I could be wrong, but I'm not convinced that the battle.net UI is totally to blame.
Nazgul made a really solid point that casual players should be supported and not the focus point, and cited Dota2 as an example of a successful eSport game that is build for competitive play that takes this approach. I think that this is the correct approach for SC2.
Also, I don't necessarily think that custom games are the heart of the issue with the current stagnation. Whether you play customs, 1v1, team games, or none seems independent to me to spectating professional games. I can honestly say that whether or not I enjoyed playing SC2, if I still enjoyed watching it, I would continue to watch it. I could be wrong about this, but I fail to see how having a casual game running in the SC2 engine would have any bearing on my enjoyment of professional play and my likelihood to watch it, outside of possibly seeing the SC2 dashboard advertisements.


So, what do I think the problem is? The most common criticism that I read on posts on reddit or TL about the gameplay of SC2 is that it is predictable or stale. Most blame the game design for encouraging death balls, but I believe that the problem is different.

I think the stagnation of tournaments that we're all seeing is primarily caused by the fact that strategy development has stagnated and caused the games to be too predictable. Notice that I'm talking about the games themselves and not game design or anything of that sort. I believe that there is more ground to be covered strategically that hasn't been explored and isn't being explored. You rarely see new builds. When you do, even when they show promise, you will still see the player go back to the standard that is more figured out.

Why has strategy development stagnated? This is where the over-saturation of events comes in. Whenever you hear players talk, they talk about all the tournaments that happen ever weekend and that there are almost no open weekends. Where is the time to practice new strategies? It seems that it is much safer (this is a profession after all!) to make a small tweak on an existing strategy rather than work on new builds that will be a bigger risk, but have a higher reward. The current meta game has come from the strategy/counter-strategy development of the previous two years. I think that outside of the queen patch, this hasn't been happening for several months.

That means death balls. Why death balls? Death ball styles are more figured out than other more harassment-based styles and also require less in terms of practiced execution. After all, if your money is on the line, would you rather do a strategy that can gain you an edge, but has the risk of putting you behind and requires really tight execution or a very safe, standard style that will keep you in a good position without as much risk? If you have limited practice time prior to an event, what are you going to spend that time on? The correct decision seems obvious to me.

Much like the Destiny post, I don't believe that there is much the community can do about this, in general. The free market will ultimately decide which tournaments succeed and fail. If viewership continues to fall, it will lead to less tournaments and hopefully help the root problem. What I can say is that the worst thing that our community can do is support a bad tournament out of feeling obligated to because it "supports eSports."


Anyway, that was a really long post. I'm sorry if it seems a little scattered. I spent a lot of time putting my thoughts in type, so it may end up being a little nonsensical. I look forward to seeing people's thoughts on it.
I still enjoy watching professional Starcraft II and I really hope that it can be made better by more strategic diversity.

Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 18h 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko412
LamboSC2 270
TKL 174
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 24906
Bisu 2467
Shuttle 2090
Jaedong 1764
Soma 833
Mini 716
EffOrt 581
Stork 353
firebathero 336
Light 330
[ Show more ]
ZerO 311
Snow 264
Rush 215
ggaemo 202
Leta 100
Hyun 88
Dewaltoss 84
Sharp 79
Mind 69
Aegong 45
Backho 44
Mong 40
JYJ 37
Pusan 33
sorry 29
Nal_rA 21
Rock 17
soO 16
sSak 14
IntoTheRainbow 12
JulyZerg 10
Terrorterran 10
NotJumperer 2
Dota 2
Gorgc6652
qojqva1642
syndereN179
canceldota60
Counter-Strike
fl0m1517
allub296
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King69
Other Games
singsing1791
B2W.Neo887
hiko573
Hui .185
DeMusliM180
Liquid`VortiX143
FrodaN125
ToD118
KnowMe75
QueenE65
ArmadaUGS54
Trikslyr36
ZerO(Twitch)22
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream20286
Other Games
gamesdonequick1043
BasetradeTV66
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 4
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 41
• poizon28 36
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis6421
• Jankos2024
• TFBlade766
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
18h 1m
WardiTV Team League
20h 1m
Replay Cast
1d 8h
Replay Cast
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Team League
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
WardiTV Team League
3 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
WardiTV Team League
5 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
NationLESS Cup
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.